Bare Bones BroadbandJust a connection, please.... ( old news - 02:13PM Wednesday Jan 14 2004) tags: prices · bandwidth · worldTipped by Karl Bode  Several European and a few scattered US providers have taken to offering a straight high-speed connection without such lavish luxuries as e-mail and newsgroup access. Is the "bare-bones" model something that could appeal to American consumers? In this age of feature one-upmanship, probably not (yet). There's an increasing push here in the states for providers to differentiate themselves by offering flashier portals, added security features, spyware detection software or anti-spam solutions. But how about offering a simple data pipe? The Register has an interesting article about two new ADSL offerings in Europe. One such minimalist offer is from UK DSL provider KPN. For 21.95 ($28) Euro per month you get bare-bones broadband(384/128)without extras like webspace, newsgroups and e-mail. The article also touches on metered service by a provider named Zon, taking DSL in the UK back toward the dial-up "pay-per-hour" model. Such metered, "bill by the byte", and minimalist offers are less frequent here in the States, as companies don't like having to quantify how much these added services actually cost. These services more often than not are designed to give the impression of value and competitive differentiation, instead of actual measurable worth. A spyware detection service that will identify, but not remove spyware anyone? One example from just this morning: Roadrunner announced they'd be offering free anti-virus software to users as an added bonus. However as one astute reader points out, this same "deal" is available to non-subscribers as part of a broader promotion. Many of these added services cost little to nothing to provide, and are often simple marketing relationships. In Australia, attempts at metered service by DSL provider Telstra resulted some serious headaches after the software tracking tool they utilized malfunctioned and began billing customers incorrectly.
Related:- Thursday Morning Links
- Thursday Evening Links
- Friday Evening Links
- Tuesday Evening Links
- Cogeco: Metered Billing 'Not About Making Money'
- Indie Canadian ISPs Fight For Their Life
- UK: 50Mbps For $46
- 21Mbps HSPA in Europe
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 vwtoys
join:2001-08-13
Torrance, CA | For the right price.. I'll take a no-frills connection at a lower price point. I don't care about emails offered by ISPs anyways.  | |
|  | Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
| Re: For the right price.. Well for the price of $28 for 384D/128U I'll stay with the feature provider at $50 and 1.5MbD/256KbU. Cut the cost by 40%, I would be paying 60% of what I now pay, and cut the speed by 77%D and 50%U and cut out all the other stuff offered. I don't think so.
--
Are You Ready--Stand By BEEP ******** | |
| | Freezone
join:2000-09-29
Southfield, MI | I will go a step further. All I need is a connection and IP. Isp dns, mail, news, etc sucks anyway(in general). | |
| | | 
Dagda1175
join:2001-06-17
Goleta, CA | Re: For the right price.. I'm gonna agree completely with you. I want the most extreme barebones possible! | |
| | | | 
53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone
| Re: For the right price.. dns dosen't really matter...what I would like is choice of backbone. Like maybe the standard package would be through uunet, but maybe for a little less $ another package could be routed through cogent. and definitely the ability to run servers, and unlimited usage. | |
| | | 
davoice
join:2000-08-12
Saxapahaw, NC
 ·Comporium
| Who cares about ISP DNS? Give me a static IP address and permission to run a server and I'll run my own DNS server thank you. And it *will* have better uptime than anything an ISP might offer.
My personal ideal service - 2.0/384, static IP, delivered over bridged ATM PVC, $40/mo. I think that's completely reasonable. Sure, more bandwidth would be nice but having more bandwidth at home than at work gets old quick. Since it's hard to get more reliable than a traditional T1 in our area, we won't be getting multi-megabit connections in our office for a good while to come.
- Davoice | |
| | 
CPM
join:2001-08-24
Miami, FL | sounds good to me also. So now the million doller question. How much? And what speeds are we talking about?
I see your hand and raise you. | |
| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Most US ISP's won't do this..... Why you ask?
How many of them claim all you pay for is a connection? Most claim newsgroups are free and so is email. If either one goes out, no credit for services.
Now, say Comcast (for example) would offer a bare bones connection for $30/month vs. their $42/month for cable TV subscribers. All of a sudden we see that email and newsgroups are worth $12 in price reductions. Then people would want credits near that amount if email goes down.
Also, this is easy money for the ISP. Bare bones cuts back on profits. | |
| 
amenite
The Soylent - It's People
Premium
join:2002-11-21
Ridgewood, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Sounds Good... No problem with me, at least then I wouldn't have expectations (as I did when I had OOL) which my service provider failed to meet (i.e. decent usenet, reliable e-mail, extra services etc.), and the users at large would not have to carry the cost of such services.
--
Time is an abstract concept invented by carbon based life forms to monitor their constant decay.-Thunderclese | |
| dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Absolutely ... I want my Internet connection to be like my phone connection. I want "IP dial tone" and that's about it. I specifically do not want any content, any web portal, etc.
(FWIW, that's why I favour DSL over cable: my feeling is that a historical pipe-provider is more likely than a historical content-provider to grasp the "I just want a connection" mindset).
Right now I use my ISP email account because it's there, but I'm not overly attached to that concept. I've just been too lazy to do anything about it. | |
| 
dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
 ·Comcast
| No BS internet? Sure! I wouldn't mind a basic connection, I very seldom/never use the email from Comcast. The portal is ok at best and loads slow(cable internet providers's own page loading slow???). I don't use the "Free" 1gig Giganews. Knock of $12.95 so its $30.00 per month without the "fluff" that I don't use anyway... sounds good to me! | |
| 
Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
·Embarq
| Yep I like the idea of a bare-bones broadband. I think if you'd like extra "features" you could pay an extra $5-$10/month. Then you'd have e-mail, spam blocker, anti-virus, spyware removal, etc. People on this site might not realise it but a lot of people like the proprietary portals and stuff. And I think if they want it they should have it offered, and for those that don't want it we can simply lower our bill a few bucks. Just my dos pesos.
--
Girls don't really like me That's why I hate myself Maybe it's cause of the way I look Or maybe it's something else »maxolasersquad.com | |
| | | | | | | | 
DrTCP
Yours truly
Premium,ExMod 1999-04
join:1999-11-09
Round Rock, TX
| said by jjoshua :
Once the services are offered a-la carte, you will pay more to get the same service.
Beyond the basic service you can always get the service of your choice. There are many web hosting companies that provide you email, dns etc. If you are not satisfied you cane easily switch. You can register your own domain for as low as $8-10 a year.
Most ISP email and newgroup services are close to useless anyway. Even the basic thing such as running relaible DNS servers is questionable. Once the bare bone service is introduced ISP can perhaps charge for these services a little more and offer a higher QoS as well. I am sure most people (AOL types) will stay anyway even at the higher exppense. Perhaps people would see real services instead of software that are normally free to download and use anyway. | |
| | 
roztaylor
join:2000-10-21
Madison, AL
·AT&T Yahoo
| Me, too... In fact, said it the other day in the article on Broadband Portals... see »What a coincidence! for the gory details, if you wish.
Yes, "we" are a minority--but, come on guys! Earn some customer loyalty by offering something for the minority!
--
Choose to make it a good day... don't wait for something good to happen! | |
| haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA | I'd like a choice of services They can bag the web space and email so far as I am concerned, just loosen up the AUP/TOS so I can run my own web and email server. The only thing they offer that I truly desire is newsgroup access. | |
| | kpatz
MY HEAD A SPLODE
Premium
join:2003-06-13
Manchester, NH
| Re: I'd like a choice of services Agreed... if I could get inexpensive bare-bones connectivity which allows my own mail (and perhaps web) server and no port blocks I'd be happy, even if it is a little slower than what I get now.
Another option could be a la carte services that can be added on, such as additional/backup DNS servers, web hosting, static IP, additional speed/bandwidth, etc. Just pay for what you need. Hmm.. maybe I should start my own broadband ISP...  | |
| 
bpx
join:2003-01-25
Saint Augustine, FL
| Econo - Broadband Sounds like that deal will appeal to the non gamers and downloaders, how about cheaper cable and DSL at the same speed. My wife is constantly bitching about the price of the connection, but she would also be bitching if the speed of the internet was slower. | |
| averagedude
join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ
·Cox HSI
| Keep it simple for me I don't use COX email because of 50+ spams per day, I would rather have the credit $$$.
I don't have a web page, and I would rather have the credit $$$.
I don't use news groups and I would rather have the credit $$$.
I just need a connection to the internet.
Just my 2 cents. | |
| 
The Beer
I Love It When A Plan Comes Together
Premium
join:2001-07-24
Omaha, NE
clubs:
 ·ViaTalk
| Qwest offers this now! Obviously there is the usual DSL transport charge however when you do your ISP with them directly now they will let you do "No Frills" for $6.00/mo
This is killer for business or home users who run their own servers, since before you had to get the officeworks package @ $34.99/MO THEN get your statics for $14.99/MO, now it's just 6 | |
| | 
Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Re: Qwest offers this now! I really like the direction Qwest is taking. I have the the deluxe dsl package. I pay an additional 9 bucks a month for the top MSN service. I don't really need the content but it's anti-spam, anti pop-up features are really good.
--
Remember when hacking a loogy it comes not so much from the lungs but from the soul. | |
| | | | |
The Beer
I Love It When A Plan Comes Together
Premium
join:2001-07-24
Omaha, NE
clubs: | Re: Qwest offers this now! $6.00 is the ISP portion, there is still the $19.99-55.00 transport charge.
Qwest used to be 19.99+19.99, now you can do it for about $19.99+6.00 | |
| | | | 
Kylemaul
Lovin' My Firefox 1.5.x
Premium
join:2001-03-30
North Port, FL
clubs: | Re: Qwest offers this now! Thanks for the info!:D
Still an OK deal...not what I thought though...must have been in a dream state when I read it.;) | |
| | | | rec3
join:2002-05-24
| The absolute cheapest you can go is 256K/256K
15.00 + 6.99 (for the ISP package) = 21.99/mo!
For the new (up to) 1.5 speed they are coming out with:
28.00 + 6.99 = 34.99/mo
No e-mails, no webspace, no caps, servers OK.
Static IPs extra. | |
| | | | | 
IDJB
@156.33.x.x
| Re: Qwest offers this now! I get this now in Idaho Falls. Total bill is 21.99 a month. You don't get email, news or tech support, but tech did walk me through set up and did a very good job. They even let me use my own modem.
The no tech support is stressing me now, cause I've got an issue I'll post elsewhere, and am worrying how to solve it. But I'm hopeful it is just set up related (I've only had this a short time) and once it is resolved, I won't change anything and should have smooth sailing. | |
| 
ChrisDAT
Google Keyword Compsysnyc
join:2002-02-26
Hollis, NY
|  It'll Fly if it Lowers the Price
Many web users do not use the email that comes with their service because it limits their "freedom" to select/change providers because they already have an "established" email address -- I wonder how the ISPs that provide the no frills service would communicate with subscribers. While not glaringly obvious, it is possible to experience the 'web without an email address, the usenet [NNTP Newsgroups], or a personal web page -- moreover, those services exist both free and by subscription by independent providers on the internet.
However, like I said, it should then cost less. | |
| RogerDucky
join:2002-01-04
Plano, TX
| Bare Bones? Naaa. Metered? Maybe... While metered seems fairly "bad," a properly implemented one isn't too horrible...
For example, my DSL ISP, August.net, does a metered access based on bandwidth. They don't "cut you off" after the allocated amount and instead charges an overage fee based on the amount you go over. Their logging of bandwidth usage is accurate, and, in the event of errors, errs in favor of their customers.
Because their bandwidth usage is based on adding the upload and download usages together, their usage policies are a bit more liberal than most.
But, bare bones with no email, newsgroups, or web... that's kinda iffy. | |
| | haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA
| Re: Bare Bones? Naaa. Metered? Maybe... UGH!...never...don't even make such a suggestion lest to many ISPs actually consider it...Metered access is the worst thing that could happen to broadband...
29.95 a month unlimited...add additional services say $5.00 for email, $5.00 for web space, $5 for usenet access...
Much more preferable. | |
| 
calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Where they could really add value.... Personally, I'd rather see an option where the ISP doesn't add the e-mail, server storage, and other things I don't want, but instead offers a professionally maintained and near bullet-proof security suite.
Many ISPs have recognized the security issue by bundling starter packs with some security software & service, but if they really stepped up to the plate and included it on their router, instead of burning my CPU time to get it done, and they managed/updated it as well, I think they'd see some serious takers. Of course, there would be some issues of configuration and settings for individual users, but those would be merely difficult, not impossible, for an ISP or underlying security provider to resolve.
In the great scheme of product life-cycles, though, it's probably necessary that the "bare-bones" version come out first, before the "alternate security enabled" version sees the light of day--so I think the "bare-bones" option is probably a good one for now.
Yours with wishful thinking,
Calvoiper
--
VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
| 
Varangian
join:2002-12-08
Collinsville, IL | Bare bones good
Anyone remember hearing the N00bs paying $700 a month in the late 90s?
Thats what by the hour means | |
| |
The Beer
I Love It When A Plan Comes Together
Premium
join:2001-07-24
Omaha, NE
clubs: | Re: Bare bones good Ahhh yes, AOL by the hour I remember...
I paid AOL more an hour than I made, still paying those credit cards off... | |
| ParanoiaInc
join:2002-08-28
Tucker, GA
| I've been preaching this for 3 years! Ever since I got stuck with BSFA I quickly learned how nice the connection was and in stark contrast how lousy the services were. Luckily, I got away from them.
Unfortunately, I bet whatever implementation is offered on a bare-bones connection-only there are still going to prohibitive conditions like no servers (web, ftp, mail, etc.) that the user can run.
Of course, one needs to quickly realize that a connection-only will not get you around the Internet. For IP to work one also needs DNS service. | |
| | tdkyo
join:2002-12-07
Rochester, NY | Re: I've been preaching this for 3 years! I think barebone connections should allow servers (but not reselling the connection) because you could get an e-mail and webspace in your own expense as in hardware. | |
| | | haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA
| Re: I've been preaching this for 3 years! Amen brother! Give me a 29.99-39.99 a month connection at 2/256 or better and then go away...I'll take care of mail, web, etc for myself thank you very much...however I would be willing to purchase unlimited(well in a sense anyway since its limited to two 128mb connections) usenet access like I currently get for an extra $5.00. | |
| mrljcsi
join:2002-10-19
Saint Charles, MO |  Bare Bones REAL good
| |
| | mrljcsi
join:2002-10-19
Saint Charles, MO | Re: Bare Bones REAL good And by the way, I remember the days of pay-per-hour with AOL and Prodigy.....I would have to say NO to any of that, but, no frills with a straight connection is still OK. So, when can I expect this in my area???????? Hmmmmmmmmmmm..... | |
| | pv8
join:2002-11-01
Mckinney, TX
| As a small Texas ISP, this is the plan that we take -- offering pure bandwidth.
Take email for example - Hotmail and Yahoo have hundreds of employees dedicated to keeping up anti-virus, spam filters, and email connectivity - for free! (well except for the adverts of course)
We can provide email is a customer requests it, but prefer not to - it is simpler and better for everyone.
Other services like hosting or DNS, we provide as a reasonable upgrade. We are not metered, but pay only for the services you use. Makes sense for us and out customers.
Paul
»www.CommunityBB.com | |
| 
nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| I Don't Use That Crap Any Way I do my own email, web, DNS, etc. So, if I could stop paying for services I don't use, then I'd probably take it (assuming their ToS allowed me to continue the activities that I need to do).
-tom
--
"There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't."
"That's only 2 types of people, moron" | |
| 
AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
| Yea Right A market for barebones connections? Look, I'd like a barebones connection as much as many people here, but unfortunately, this kind of person is far and beyond more common. There's more money in the millions of people like that than there is in the much smaller number of power users. I don't expect to see any barebones providers proliferate any time soon.
--
Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone not agreeing with them. It's the non-thinkers that always come in legions." -John Callari | |
| | Cyber2lz
join:2001-11-15
Odessa, FL
| Re: Yea Right Just 12 octets of addresses. 1 public ip, 1 subnet and 1 gateway.
Keep the Email, Webspace, HELPless Desk and all of the trappings.
Give me 1.5 down and 768 up and I'll sign a one year contract!
Just give me the bandwidth, I'll take care of the rest of it. | |
| | |
AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
| Re: Yea Right Invariably, what would happen is you'd have non-power users signing up for the service and then calling the number used to report line problems for technical support.
"I can't get my favorites to import to Netscape."
"Sir, this is the number to report line issues. We do not provide technical support."
"What do you mean you don't provide technical support? You're my provider, aren't you? These favorites worked fine until I switched to you guys."
--
Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone not agreeing with them. It's the non-thinkers that always come in legions." -John Callari | |
| | | |
roztaylor
join:2000-10-21
Madison, AL
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: Yea Right Well, if they can terminate someone for unadvertized caps--why not make the standard message that the line tech support provides is "if you need that kind of help, you need to upgrade to ____ plan, which provides that type of help".
They could even be snotty and say "you were told this when you signed up for the cheap service."
Then after "x" inappropriate calls, they could get a termination letter in the mail and lose their service!
Sign me--with tongue planted firmly in cheek! | |
| | |
dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | Exactly! As long as I'm connected, I can handle the rest. I'm paying for services that aren't getting used now, web space, file storage, email, the "Portal"(used occasionally but not needed or wanted).
Give me the connection, screw the rest. | |
| | | | clucas001
join:2003-11-11
Mechanicsville, MD | Re: Yea Right gimmie the barebones connect!!! All I want is the connect with good bandwidth and NO METERED SERVICE. | |
| 
Bubba
GIT-R-DONE
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-19
Around, Us
·Comcast
| Free older firewall....Hmmm "However as one astute reader points out, this same "deal" is available to non-subscribers as part of a broader promotion."
Until the software is made available and as a Road Runner user....I will reserve judgement of whether "this same "deal"" pointed out by the astute reader is worth the download. The "deal" comes with ZAPro version 3.7.179.0 and Zone Labs ZAPro version is now at 4.5.538.000. Sometimes free is not always the prudent way to go when speaking of securing ones PC.
This "deal" of a version was discussed in our Security Forum recently....http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,8701939~mode=flat;iframe=1#8702474
--
"It's 5 o'clock somewhere" *Team Z* Member | |
| 
Nevster
Premium
join:2002-04-06
Dalhousie, NB
| Portals, Content, Value-Add, and other hoo-ha. When I started planning to assume in-house services for my municipal cable company before the demise of @home, I had to seriously consider each 'frill' we were going to offer, for budgets were tight, and the new internet service, being the city's 3rd in 3 years, was beginning to be seen as a money-pit, not a source of revenue.
Our installers were quite aware that the majority of our customers didn't want the @home software, nor changed their favourite homepage to the ISP's, so there was no drive to provide a 'portal' of any type.
Other than that, I tried to provide the same or better services that @Home was offering. When it came to a news server, which I initially planned on deploying, I discovered some interesting facts:
Of about 1500 users, only ~100 of them used @Home's NNTP servers in a 2 week period. Of these, 10 users were several-fold more active than the rest.
At that time, @Home's news network ran on a pretty expensive set of distributed servers, and in working with my former colleague, Chad, who was the news architect, I learned that it would take 18Mbits/sec of bandwidth, 7x24 to get a local feed equivalent to what @home had. This news-feed bandwidth would be vying with the 1400 user's surfing bandwidth, and our estimates on DS3 pricing if we were to charge only the people who used the service, over $100 each.
Instead, we chose to outsource our news service, and bought a number of ports at 128kbits/sec, and a few at 512kbits/sec and ate the cost.
We had few comments on this, and, since our financials are all public record, we didn't have to guard our decision to be 'stingy', and most if not all the folks who noticed the news slowdown understood when we explained why we weren't undertaking local newsgroups. At least, nobody addressed the issue with City Council, which would have been a most interesting (and ballsy) discussion to have.
-nevin | |
| | 
rogue_
I Have A Secret Window
Premium
join:2001-10-17
Lake Hiawatha, NJ | Re: Portals, Content, Value-Add, and other hoo-ha. Seems OOL roled out this business model and forgot to tell everyone 0_o | |
| | |
Nevster
Premium
join:2002-04-06
Dalhousie, NB
| Re: Portals, Content, Value-Add, and other hoo-ha. said by rogue_ :
Seems OOL roled out this business model and forgot to tell everyone 0_o
I probably wouldn't feel I was entitled to be informed of these things. If I needed to know, I'd probably ask or do research... | |
| |
DrTCP
Yours truly
Premium,ExMod 1999-04
join:1999-11-09
Round Rock, TX
| said by Nevster :
At that time, @Home's news network ran on a pretty expensive set of distributed servers, and in working with my former colleague, Chad, who was the news architect, I learned that it would take 18Mbits/sec of bandwidth, 7x24 to get a local feed equivalent to what @home had. This news-feed bandwidth would be vying with the 1400 user's surfing bandwidth, and our estimates on DS3 pricing if we were to charge only the people who used the service, over $100 each.
Instead, we chose to outsource our news service, and bought a number of ports at 128kbits/sec, and a few at 512kbits/sec and ate the cost.
It is quite obvious that it is better both for the ISP and the users for not offering these services. ISP can reduce the bill some dollars and users that really need the service can shell out a few more for a reliable service of their own at whatever service level they like. There would be much less support calls so less support cost would be needed on behalf of the ISP as well. | |
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