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 | zed260
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN
 ·Charter Pipeline
1 edit | Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? the bond holders support the plan largely its the banks mainly jpmorgen who paul allan and the bond holders fear
if jpmorgen has its way the bond holders and paul allan lose everything and they take control once jpmorgen has controll they probably sell it | |
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NOVA_Guy
Obama- Commander in Thief
Premium
join:2002-03-05
 ·VOIPo
| Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? If I had a choice between screwing Allen and screwing JP Morgan, I'd slam the bank every time. It's not like they will miss the money-- $8 billion is about one day's worth of credit card and overdraft fees to them. And if they do... well, I'm sure our government still has some bailout money left lying around.
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Trusting the Democrats to fix our economy and give us health care is like trusting the fox with keys to the henhouse, a brand new gas stove, and a pantry full of goodies for side dishes. In the end, all will be dead and nothing but lies will be told. | |
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| | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? While I am no fan of the banks, this was pretty much Allen's screw up and I do not think he should be able to profit from it. | |
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| | | rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT
| That is an incredibly ignorant post. You would suffer a Bank to lose money over the net loss of a bad investment or You would push tax payer money to save Paul Allen, one of the richest men in america a pittance of money (against his total net worth)? This is from a poster who is criticizing Obama for trying to provide universal health coverage, the irony is overwhelming.
Paul Allen setup charter during the dot com boom and took the company public in an IPO near the end of the boom, raking in billions to compensate for his initial investment while at the same time retaining controlling interest in the company. Now a plan is proposed to wipe out much of the debt (at a severe loss to every lender) that also places the interests of an equity investor above those of a lender and you support it? As I said the irony and hypocrisy is overwhelming given the politics you espouse in your personal signature. Sounds like you fit in well in the Cheney view of the world, screw the masses for the benefit of the few. Bet he's your personal hero. | |
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| | | | matrix3D
join:2006-09-27
Deep River, CT
4 edits | Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? While this is completely off-topic, but since you brought it up... the US Government stepped in to take over a whore house in Nevada after it failed to pay back taxes and they couldn't even keep that from going bankrupt -- what makes you think it will succeed in running an entire healthcare system??
It's not "universal health coverage," it's universal health MANAGEMENT. The Democrats are selling you, and every other "the government can do no wrong" sucker, a pill of goods when they tell you that there will be no rationing of healthcare. Healthcare is a LIMITED RESOURCE and there are not enough doctors as it is right now -- this is something Congress (and Obama) have failed to address: who will get what and when? Have you ever read any of the proposed healthcare bill? It reads like stereo instructions that were written by a lawyer; it makes very little sense and there is plenty of "wiggle room" for Congress to essentially do whatever the hell it pleases. Furthermore, if their public option plan is so great and wonderful, why did they explicitly exclude themselves and their families from the same great coverage as the rest of us peons? Because it sucks!
Democrats live in some sort of utopia inside their minds... the rest of us live in something called reality. | |
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| | | | | ender7074
join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO
 ·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? said by matrix3D  :While this is completely off-topic, but since you brought it up... the US Government stepped in to take over a whore house in Nevada after it failed to pay back taxes and they couldn't even keep that from going bankrupt -- what makes you think it will succeed in running an entire healthcare system?? It's not "universal health coverage," it's universal health MANAGEMENT. The Democrats are selling you, and every other "the government can do no wrong" sucker, a pill of goods when they tell you that there will be no rationing of healthcare. Healthcare is a LIMITED RESOURCE and there are not enough doctors as it is right now -- this is something Congress (and Obama) have failed to address: who will get what and when? Have you ever read any of the proposed healthcare bill? It reads like stereo instructions that were written by a lawyer; it makes very little sense and there is plenty of "wiggle room" for Congress to essentially do whatever the hell it pleases. Furthermore, if their public option plan is so great and wonderful, why did they explicitly exclude themselves and their families from the same great coverage as the rest of us peons? Because it sucks! Democrats live in some sort of utopia inside their minds... the rest of us live in something called reality. QFT!
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Does Microsoft mean small and squishy? | |
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bent
not broken
Premium
join:2004-10-04
Loveland, CO
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
1 edit | Sorry for going WAY off topic, but you could start a thread about puppies and it'd end up in a healthcare debate.
said by matrix3D :
While this is completely off-topic, but since you brought it up... the US Government stepped in to take over a whore house in Nevada after it failed to pay back taxes and they couldn't even keep that from going bankrupt -- what makes you think it will succeed in running an entire healthcare system??
Medicare. It works quite well, actually. It would work even better if we could fund it and Medicaid better.
said by matrix3D :
It's not "universal health coverage," it's universal health MANAGEMENT. The Democrats are selling you, and every other "the government can do no wrong" sucker, a pill of goods when they tell you that there will be no rationing of healthcare. Healthcare is a LIMITED RESOURCE and there are not enough doctors as it is right now -- this is something Congress (and Obama) have failed to address: who will get what and when?
YOU determine how much care you get by how much you can afford. Not a lot different than now, except that some poor and kinda poor people would have some sort of health care coverage.
said by matrix3D :
Democrats live in some sort of utopia inside their minds... the rest of us live in something called reality.
For any Republican to claim that we can't afford some sort of minimum health care standard for every American is so ironic that I have to laugh. Especially considering that they racked up a 12 trillion dollar public debt fighting a war for profit.
It's OK to bomb the shit out of a country halfway around the world, but it's not OK to give medicine to poor people?
If you're a member of the Religious Right, the irony is even more delicious... Who would Jesus bomb?
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Greedy Old Pigs | |
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| | | | | | probboy
join:2008-01-10
Natick, MA
| Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? said by bent :Medicare. It works quite well, actually. It would work even better if we could fund it and Medicaid better. Yeah, it works quite well by underpaying providers by an average of 30%. How do the providers make up for that? By charging the rest of us higher rates, regardless of whether or not we have insurance. | |
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Katt
join:2001-08-16
Portland, OR
| said by matrix3D :While this is completely off-topic, but since you brought it up... the US Government stepped in to take over a whore house in Nevada after it failed to pay back taxes and they couldn't even keep that from going bankrupt -- what makes you think it will succeed in running an entire healthcare system?? You're referring to the Mustang Ranch and the first time it was shut down by the IRS in the late 90s. Yeah, I'm sure the government tried real hard to keep a brothel going when it knew full well that if the business "failed" they would get to auction off all the assets. | |
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dave49er
join:2004-05-05
Walnut, CA
·Charter Pipeline
| said by rahvin112 :That is an incredibly ignorant post. You would suffer a Bank to lose money over the net loss of a bad investment or You would push tax payer money to save Paul Allen, one of the richest men in america a pittance of money (against his total net worth)? This is from a poster who is criticizing Obama for trying to provide universal health coverage, the irony is overwhelming. Paul Allen setup charter during the dot com boom and took the company public in an IPO near the end of the boom, raking in billions to compensate for his initial investment while at the same time retaining controlling interest in the company. Now a plan is proposed to wipe out much of the debt (at a severe loss to every lender) that also places the interests of an equity investor above those of a lender and you support it? As I said the irony and hypocrisy is overwhelming given the politics you espouse in your personal signature. Sounds like you fit in well in the Cheney view of the world, screw the masses for the benefit of the few. Bet he's your personal hero. Couldn't have stated it better myself. | |
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| | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Say what you want about banks, but they've fronted a significant portion of the capital that Charter seems to have pissed away and they deserve their fair share of compensation/loss. "Screwing" the banks isn't exactly a great precedent to set in the credit world. | |
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| | | Sky King
join:2001-07-02
Naugatuck, CT
·Comcast
| Trusting Republicans is like...well like what happened with the stock market and this current recession oh and these two never-ending wars which costs us billions every month. It took a Democrat to get us out of at least one of them and now we have "some" regulation of these greedy losers. Republicans wanted to do away with Social Security and let folks use the Stock Market....well, if that had happened most would have little to no money to fall back on. Social Security, Medicare and yes. UNIVERSAL health care is the way to go. Cut the military budget to where they will be using sling shots..cut foreign aid...get rid of illegals and all will be right with the world. The U.S. spends more on health care and schools and get a lousy return for our dollar. I saw a report recently that proved that. Doctors want tort reform...hey Doc, just stop cutting off the wrong leg and you won't have to worry about being sued. I don't know any poor doctors but they are all whining and at the same time they are in bed with the companies that feed off of us. | |
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| | | | joker5656
join:2006-06-23
Dallas, GA
·Charter Pipeline
1 edit | Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? to blame everything on the Republicans is just so bad. your SAVIOR actually use to sue banks to get them to loan money to people with little income. Oh by the way SS Medicaid and medicare are all going under and have been for a very long time. there actually operating in the red. Same is true for the POST OFFICE. So no to Universal Health Care, and like someone above said go read it, its chaulk full of loop arounds and yes there is nothing preventing them from rationing in it. One reason they won't take it themselves, so if it won't be mandatory for them why me? that should speak for it self. And to put it gently well Obama actually plans on spending more than bush if his plans go through. | |
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bent
not broken
Premium
join:2004-10-04
Loveland, CO
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? said by joker5656 :And to put it gently well Obama actually plans on spending more than bush if his plans go through. Yeah, at least he'll actually pay for it. Tax and spend or borrow and spend. Which is worse?
Of course their going to ration public health care. You would want it open-ended and without limits? That's only for war! We should outfit our troops the best in the world, and then keep 'em here, and help our own sick and hurting citizens.
Why is it that all the Republicans believe that there won't be any private insurance, or individual relationships with your doctor? If you have private insurance, what are you worried about? If you can pay your own cardiologist bill, what are you worried about? If you don't or can't, don't you want some sort of coverage?
I want people who don't have any health insurance to have something. I know what they do when they get a sniffle or sprain their wrist. They go to the ER because they can't be refused care. And then they don't pay, and I end up paying it anyway on down the hospital-insurance-me economic chain. So if I'm gonna pay for it, I'd like to pay for it in the most efficient way possible. Up front.
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Greedy Old Pigs | |
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| | | | | | joker5656
join:2006-06-23
Dallas, GA
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? theres a difference between giving and taking ones own money. This would not be an opt out option for those who chose to opt out. I would love to opt out if i could but even if i do guess what there going to charge me 2 and a half %. why should i pay into something i don't want or need? explain that. why are liberals always trying to take someones elses money? people pretty much get free health care now so why a big over haul on a bill these idiots haven't read (well maybe now some have)? Private insurence will disappate my friend cause busness won't beable to compete with the gov. why should we get rationed care in the first place? i suggest you read up on single payer health care. its not all that great. the gov can't fix SS, medicade, medicare and the old post office but by god we should trust them with health care? please answer the last question cause you can't. Not to mention but the plan dosen't even oust illeagals. How much you wanna bet the gov will take money from this money pit to.... | |
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| | | | | | | sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
| Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? Well, considering they'll mostly tax the rich, I'm not too worried about them taking everyone's money.
If the government is so incompetent and inefficient then how are they going to put private insurance out of business?
Furthermore, in EVERY OTHER COUNTRY WITH SINGLE PAYER HEALTHCARE PRIVATE INSURANCE STILL EXISTS AND PROFITS.
Read that statement over and over again until your eyes bleed. | |
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| | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Considering the bond holders and the banks both "own" Charter's debt, one shouldn't be favored over the other. | |
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| | | zed260
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN
1 edit | Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? well the banks have secured liens on charters holdings so they would be paid first if its liqudated
if anythings left after paying banks it goes to bond holders then unsecured creditors etc | |
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| | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? Fair enough. Assuming the banks do hold $8B of the $22B in debt, then I'd guess there's not much negotiation to be done. And banks are banks. They have no desire to be a cable company and most definitely would sell the assets off assuming they take ownership. Any idea what Charter is worth? | |
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| | | | | zed260
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_Communications
acording to wikipedia 14.6 billion in assets in 2007
however since then i believe they've sold many systems so its probably less now
however in the event of liquidation given the way the econmy is and stuff they would probably sell for less so pretty much the bond holders would lose more in liquidation | |
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| | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? I understand that, that's why I was wondering if you are aware of any realistic valuings. I don't own any Charter debt, just curious. | |
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| | | | | | | zed260
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN | Re: Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan? well i guess maybe 20 percent recovery for most of the bond holders but some bond holders have priatory over others
anyway charter would probably go for 11 billion i guess sounds about what they would sell for | |
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| joker5656
join:2006-06-23
Dallas, GA | not if Obama steps in. first the Union, then the US Taxpayers then the Bond Holders. Now tell me whats bankruptcy court for??? | |
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KoRnGtL15
Premium
join:2007-01-04
Grants Pass, OR |  Sure would be nice......
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| hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | Re: Sure would be nice...... maybe TWC's new cable company- Windjammer will take over. | |
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seederjed
join:2005-02-28
Snellville, GA
| Yet another for Paul This is yet another company Paul Allen is involved in that is bankrupt or heading that way.
Another example would be the Rose Garden Arena where the Portland Trailbalazers play. He declared bankruptcy, lost it to the city, then bought it back.
He needs to stay away from tech it would seem, and concentrate on the other secters he has a stake in.
»news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10167010-75.html
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Garde···nkruptcy | |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
2 edits | Passing the Bar Exam? or Ordination? If the judge wanted to give people "stern talking to(s)" then he should have become a minister, or should have become a school principal. A judge's job is to rule on matters of law, not personal preference. | |
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zpm
join:2009-03-23
Columbus, GA | Re: Passing the Bar Exam? or Ordination? no offense, but sometimes companies like charter, and banks need to fail and be bought out. so l=please, let the crap of charter be done away with, and sale the rest off. | |
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| | bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | Re: Passing the Bar Exam? or Ordination? That has nothing to do with what I wrote. I was criticizing the judge for what the judge did. I didn't say anything, either way, about Charter and what they did or didn't do. What the judge did was inappropriate, regardless of anything else. | |
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| Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
| We need MORE judges doing things like this, not fewer. Judges should apply the intent of the law wherever possible. The intent of the bankruptcy laws was not for the person that caused the problem to profit from the problems he made. If embarrassing Paul Allen will prevent one incident of this type of behavior it will be well worth it. | |
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| | bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
| Re: Passing the Bar Exam? or Ordination? Ridiculous. Judges administer the law. If you want the law to intend something, then get the friggen law changed. Or would you rather have my judges and your judges fight out what really was the "intent" of the law in a mud wrestling pit?
Ridiculous. | |
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| | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: Passing the Bar Exam? or Ordination? Judges determine the intent of the law every day. That is why there is an escalation process and why findings are upheld/overturned by higher courts. The classic example is Roe V Wade. | |
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| | | | bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | Re: Passing the Bar Exam? or Ordination? There is a difference between a JUDGEMENT and a TALKING TO.  | |
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| | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Passing the Bar Exam? or Ordination? Did you actually read the link?
"US Bankruptcy Court Judge James Peck startled many in a Manhattan courtroom when he asked Lance Conn, who manages Allen's investments, if he thought it "appears somewhat unseemly for a person as wealthy as Allen" to be collecting money in the bankruptcy." | |
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| sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH | Re: This is what banruptcy looks like? I don't know why, but I keep imagining a random meteor falling through the sky and smashing the ship in half (while no one's on it of course), all while Paul Allen watches. That would be hilarious. | |
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russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA | Nothing to do with it While there may well be legitimate objections to the restructuring plan, Allen's personal wealth has nothing to do with it. Bankruptcy isn't a to-each-according-to-his-needs thing. | |
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dslslant
@charter.com
| Tax Burden? Quote by Karl:
Charter's restructuring calls for Allen to be paid around $200 million and is tailored specifically to lessen Paul Allen's personal tax burden.
He's already out 8 Billion of his own money Karl. If you invested 80 thousand into this website, of your own money, and the site tanks, and you get 2,000 out the 80 Grand back, does it really call for a public outcry? 200 million is a drop in the bucket. WHo cares if he gets 200 million. The guy is out 8 BILLION. Get it? | |
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| rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA | Re: Tax Burden? Your forgetting that he wants to retain control. Along with that comes wiping all the debt out and later he could sell and get his 8 billion back. Not to mention the tax benefits now. | |
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Bankruptcy Judge Slams Charter Founder Allen
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Besides lecturing, will judge reject Allen's plan?
This is what banruptcy looks like?
