Baby Bells To Get Surveillance Suit ImmunityDemocrats fold on wiretap law reform ( old news - 01:55PM Thursday Oct 18 2007) tags: legal · business · telco · privacy · Verizon Online DSL · AT&T YahooThe phone industry recently launched a massive lobbying effort to derail wiretap reform laws that could have held them financially liable for participating in the Bush administration's warrantless wiretap program. According to the Washington Post, Democrats have now struck a deal with the Bush administration that will give the baby bells the immunity they were looking for: The draft Senate bill has the support of the intelligence committee's chairman, John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), and Bush's director of national intelligence, Mike McConnell. It will include full immunity for those companies that can demonstrate to a court that they acted pursuant to a legal directive in helping the government with surveillance in the United States. If the bill passes, it would wipe out all lawsuits against the companies, including the EFF's against AT&T, which alleges the company built special rooms tasked with delivering customer voice and data directly to the NSA without a court order. AT&T's plans were exposed by 22-year former AT&T employee Mark Klein, who provided documentation to support his allegations (more detail from the EFF here, Klein's statement is available here.) Update: It looks like at least one Democrat will be fighting the effort to give the phone companies retroactive immunity: Democratic U.S. Presidential hopeful Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., announced Thursday he will block the Senate from taking up legislation that would give telephone companies immunity for their role in President George W. Bush's warrantless wiretapping program.
Saying telephone companies had enabled an assault on the U.S. Constitution, Dodd announced in an email to supporters that he has placed a "hold" on a wiretapping bill reportedly including such immunity.
A "hold" is an informal, though long-established way for a senator to block progress on legislation in the Senate. The tradition effectively allows senators to maintain their right to filibuster a bill, while still also attending to constituent needs, committee work, and political fundraising.
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 antioch
join:2007-10-06
Pomona, CA | joke Qwest was the only one with the juevo's to not give into the government. Reports also show that the Bush administration started this program before 911! | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
| Re: joke Wow..first post and it's Bushes fault...
This is a good thing. Now companies won't feel like they need an entire legal staff to defend themselves when assisting our government in a time of war.
Do you remember all the news reports at how inept our intelligence services were?
Well steps were taken, and you don't like it...well too bad. Bravo!
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Burn a tire, but make sure you buy that carbon offset! | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL | Re: joke Sematics..,.you be one of the ones arguing over words and I'll be one the ones assisting anyway possible.
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Burn a tire, but make sure you buy that carbon offset! | |
| | | | | backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2 | Re: joke are you new?
only the house can declare war | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
| Re: joke I understand the declaration process, the war powers act, the fisa laws, and more importantly, executive authority.
For all of the people that are now going to reply ask yourself this...
Why isn't anybody bitching about the fact the New York Times printed classified information?
This is acceptable to you?
Or did they get immunity?
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Burn a tire, but make sure you buy that carbon offset! | |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| said by S_engineer  :I understand I say this with all due respect, but no, you really don't.
said by S_engineer :Why isn't anybody bitching about the fact the New York Times printed classified information? This is acceptable to you? Or did they get immunity? Yes, it is completely acceptable. The government works for ME, Joe Citizen, not the other way around. I need not be afraid of my own god damned employees. And if my employees are going to cheat me, lie to me and deceive me...I reserve the right to fight back and claim what's mine using any tools necessary.
The reporting would not have been necessary had the administration not broken the law and the sacred bond of trust with the governed.
If the thugs in the administration can, for all intents and purposes, get immunity from prosecution and profiteering at a time of great national need...then, surely we can let the press slide for doing its job, no? Are we going to stop pretending altogether that the first amendment still exists and start putting people in jail for opening their mouths?
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»PropertyMaps.com - Real-time, map based, nationwide MLS property search! | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL | Re: joke Ok Joe, tell your employees in our city, in our county and in our state, that they're over burdoning us with the tax increases...let me know what your employees say!
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Burn a tire, but make sure you buy that carbon offset! | |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: joke I'm actually quite okay with my share of taxes. What I don't like is my taxes going to kill innocent civilians and our own soldiers....when the money could go towards education, peace, health care, improving the national infrastructure, environment protection. You know, things that actually benefit me and my future generations, instead of just Halliburton.
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»PropertyMaps.com - Real-time, map based, nationwide MLS property search! | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
| Re: joke Wow talk about the 30 second talking point...halliburton; you forgot blackwater too!
And Peace...you want your taxes to go for peace?
Well if you want peace you must prepare for war!
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Burn a tire, but make sure you buy that carbon offset! | |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: joke said by S_engineer :Wow talk about the 30 second talking point...halliburton; you forgot blackwater too! And Peace...you want your taxes to go for peace? Well if you want peace you must prepare for war! Yes Blackwater too.
The only people who think war is a requirement for peace are in a business that profits from war or are sheep who can be programmed easily to recite talking points. Which category are you in?
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»PropertyMaps.com - Real-time, map based, nationwide MLS property search! | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
| Re: joke Did I say go to war, no; I said prepare. I don't recite talking points, you create them.
My category...wolf. If your the sheepherder and your not willing to do what needs to be done, it will be easy picking!
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Burn a tire, but make sure you buy that carbon offset! | |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Re: joke Huh?
...was that one of those "known knowns and unknown knowns" type diatribe? | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL | Re: joke if you use analogies be prepared to get them. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| Re: joke said by Ignite :said by S_engineer :My category...wolf. If your the sheepherder and your not willing to do what needs to be done, it will be easy picking! Mr S, if you are the wolf should you not be in Iraq or Afghanistan, maybe even Pakistan (you remember Osama Bin Laden, that dude that has been totally forgotten somewhere along the line in the rush for oil and moving money from public to private coffers) taking advantage of the easy pickings? Speaking purely as a sheepherder who is not willing to do what in your opinion needs to be done, and who finds 'what needs to be done' as being cowardly and borne out of fear. I prefer to contribute to the war in terror by a method that in many cases sadly seems rather difficult... I'm simply not scared. I take the London Underground to work every morning, any morning I could be blown into the afterlife by a Jihadist... then again I could also be hit by a bus crossing the road on my way to the station *shrug* right... so you've endeavored to engage in activities that were outlined by bush after 9/11... you remember what they were don't you... go on about your business, go on with your daily lives, everything will be okay, etc. etc... so like a good little lemming you've simply stuffed your hands in your pocket, walk to the tube and resign yourself to the fact that you might end up being a casualty and you call that doing something... hmmm, i wonder were the spine of british men has gone too... maybe it is somewhere downstream on the thames... | |
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Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs:
 ·BlueYonder Interne..
 ·Be There
·UK Online
edit:
October 19th, @07:37AM
| Re: joke said by Asmodeus :right... so you've endeavored to engage in activities that were outlined by bush after 9/11... you remember what they were don't you... go on about your business, go on with your daily lives, everything will be okay, etc. etc... so like a good little lemming you've simply stuffed your hands in your pocket, walk to the tube and resign yourself to the fact that you might end up being a casualty and you call that doing something... hmmm, i wonder were the spine of british men has gone too... maybe it is somewhere downstream on the thames... Nope, I simply understand that the point of terrorism is to cause fear. By not being afraid, the terrorists have failed.
On the other hand by compromising your own freedoms and in turn disturbing the entire world due to your fear, they win. Indeed by in turn propogating and multiplying the fear they may want to cause you even assist them in their terrorism.
True courage isn't going en masse and bombing the crap out of a country on the other side of the world which is in no way involved in the terrorism, or allowing a Government to stamp on its' own constitution in the name of your safety, true courage is refusing to compromise on the freedoms that you hold dear, refusing to allow your life to be disturbed by the actions of terrorists.
That said it would have been wonderful if certain USA citizens had had this similar attitude to terrorism when they were bankrolling the provisional IRA while they were bombing the UK mainland though.
Anyway you carry on getting more and more insular, eroding your own democracy and liberty in the name of perceived safety though. At some point once the money dries up you might realise that terrorism is a sad fact of life in a world of different nations and opinions, and that to meet it with violence and fear is merely admitting defeat, nothing more.
Me? I'll let the professionals here, the security services, police, those who are paid to ensure our safety and paid to ensure that we can live our lives in peace do their job, and I in return shall carry on living my life, going to work and paying my taxes, part of which should go towards paying their salaries in return for this safety.
Real courage is rising above the danger, I'll leave the acting out of fear to yourself. What you call being a lemming, I call being a decent human being whose moral standards are somewhat higher than those who may seek to pointlessly harm him  | |
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pointlessness9
@talleyds.com | The first step to peace is to stop fighting. Please point out where in history peace existed utilizing an organization that has a sole purpose of conducting warfare. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| said by S_engineer :Wow talk about the 30 second talking point...halliburton; you forgot blackwater too! I want to hire Blackwater USA as my own personal bodyguards.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| said by kapil :I'm actually quite okay with my share of taxes. What I don't like is my taxes going to kill innocent civilians and our own soldiers....when the money could go towards education, peace, health care, improving the national infrastructure, environment protection. You know, things that actually benefit me and my future generations, instead of just Halliburton. I wonder if your family during ww2 said the same thing... | |
| | | | | | | | | backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2
edit:
October 18th, @03:07PM
| hey buddy,
Guess where most of your tax dollars for the rest of your miserable life will go?
Thats right you guessed it...
To impose democracy on another nation instead of fixing your problems at home.
edit: forgot a word | |
| | | | | | | | | Rhanlav
Dook?
join:2005-01-28
Jacksonville, FL
·EarthLink
| I'm not over burdoned by taxes. The only folks who seem to complain about it are the folks who have a lot more cars and houses than I do. Those poor poor folks. How dare we have to sacrifice our money via taxes to help support the war effort (like we've done in every other war, except this one).
I'm sorry, but you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. If you take a fraction of what we pay in taxes to fund the war, and put it into other things like say balancing the budget and other services, my goodness, think of the calamity of a balanced budget and funded programs would cause! Oh the humanity! 
PS: The Cake Is A Lie. | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: joke quote:
The Cake Is A Lie.
 Now get me a companion cube. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Rhanlav
Dook?
join:2005-01-28
Jacksonville, FL
·EarthLink
| Re: joke Remember, your companion cube can not speak to you, and in fact, cannot speak at all. If you do hear it advise you to invade a foreign country under fall pretenses, it is best that you do not heed it's advice. It will not stab you either.  | |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Semantics? Following the constitution is now considered semantics? | |
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hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12
| said by S_engineer :Sematics..,.you be one of the ones arguing over words and I'll be one the ones assisting anyway possible. That might be a bad idea - admitting to assisting the Bush Regime. It might just land you behind bars for treason some fine day.
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Christianity: A cannibalistic blood cult based upon the human blood sacrifice of a virgin male. It teaches you must eat the flesh and drink the blood of the virgin to be saved. | |
| | | | Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| said by Ignite :said by S_engineer :Now companies won't feel like they need an entire legal staff to defend themselves when assisting our government in a time of war. I must have missed the declaration of war, how ignorant of me sometimes you don't need a declaration of war to go to war... there are many instances in the history of this country were we went to war without declaring war and also not against countries, but individuals as well... so yes, it was ignorant of you to say so, but i've grown accustomed to our friends across the pond to becoming quite smarmy... | |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| There are some things in life that are not George Bush's fault. Like the fact that I can no longer get green onions on my Taco Bell food. But this, sir, is sure as hell Mr. Bush's fault! Subverting democracy and spying on its own citizens.
If we didn't do it during the second world war, we surely could have gotten away without spying on our fellow citizens during this manufactured, for-profit sham of a war.
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»PropertyMaps.com - Real-time, map based, nationwide MLS property search! | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
| | SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| said by S_engineer :Wow..first post and it's Bushes fault... Name one positive thing associated with The Deciderer and the longevity/good of the collective United States, not just the top 1% elite mega-earners and the corporations they loot run. | |
| | | | | | | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
October 19th, @09:11AM
| GO CHRIS DODD! A True man among men. Speak up for our rights, and don't sell out our future. Bush and his Cronies have already done it, on the guise of terrorism. Now hold these idiots accountable, and show them who they REALLY have to fear (American People). We put your asses in office, and we can vote you the HELL OUT. Chris Dodd, You need to WIN the Presidentcy if you are the one to kill this legislation! That's what I call having a PAIR. | |
| | | antioch
join:2007-10-06
Pomona, CA | Re: joke said by jc100 :GO CHRIS DODD! GO RON PAUL =D | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Huh? quote:
It will include full immunity for those companies that can demonstrate to a court that they acted pursuant to a legal directive in helping the government with surveillance in the United States.
If the directive were legal there would be no problem. Or is this a "just obeying orders" type of thing? | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Huh? Since this is all 'NSA' stuff, you'll never know if it was 'legal' or not. Its a matter of national security, and nobody is allowed to speak on it.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | Re: Huh? of course it is completely illegal. hence, AT&T and Verizon's intense lobbying to pass this bill. | |
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telcolackey
The Truth? You can't handle the truth
join:2007-04-06
Death Valley, CA | Re: Huh? "My lord... is it legal....."
"I will make it legal" | |
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Jigsaw
Stardust We Are
Premium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH
·Cox HSI
| Spinless I am now officially a independent.Those things on the hill do not have anyone interest's in mind but there own and there corporate buddy's.AND STILL AMERICANS SLEEP....Would the last real American Please take the flag when you leave.
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»www.auralmoon.com/ Stimulating ears for 7 years | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Spinless I think that the American flag is now a corporate American flag ... Enron's, Haliburton's, ...
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
| | | | | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH | Re: Spinless No its wrong. You don't have the T logo or the VZ Logo. and Fox's or the RIAA and MPAA just add those and its set. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | The irony in that is that flag was probably made in China
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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