 |
 | beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | Re: Haha What is the better solution to the problem?
We don't like throttling. We hate the crappy RIAA lawsuits. We detest the possible ISP "piracy tax". Caps are evil.
So what IS the better solution? | |
|
| | Angrychair
join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL | Re: Haha Freedom is always the answer. | |
|
| | | DarkLogix
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX | Re: Haha Ya nice and simple
to the Riaa No Lawsuits for you
to the ISP data caps no caps for you
to the congress pay back that 2 trillion+ you took | |
|
| | | Pv8man
join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN | Ya, Free Market P2P is the only answer, LOL
I love repeating lobbyist talking points and skewing them a bit, It's like shoving their own words down their throat. | |
|
| | | | keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA | Re: Haha Ummm, THEY CAN OPT OUT?
What is the big deal if the people can just opt out?
The filter means nothing, just opt out? | |
|
| | | | | 
Luwigie
Premium
join:2002-06-06
East Lansing, MI
clubs: | Re: Haha They can opt out from the optional (adult content, etc) filtering, but not the illegal filtering with this proposal... | |
|
| | 
james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica
| said by beaups  :What is the better solution to the problem? We don't like throttling. We hate the crappy RIAA lawsuits. We detest the possible ISP "piracy tax". Caps are evil. So what IS the better solution? The better solution might be to put more resources into tracking down the pedophiles while they use the open internet instead of forcing them to use encrypted transfers to get around the blocks.
It's actually somewhat smart of them to put resources into tracking P2P instead of blocking websites though, since most child porn freaks use P2P to trade their disgusting warez with eachother.
Oh yeah, I also love how this is now getting a Piracy spin to it. Way to take a serious issue like stopping child porn and pervert it for your own agenda, government bastards. | |
|
| | | beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | Re: Haha The linked article makes no reference to child porn or porn of any kind. It merely states content "unsuitable for children". Maybe stealing isn't a suitable activity for children? Now who is perverting the issue here? | |
|
| | | | |
| | | |
james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica
| said by beaups :The linked article makes no reference to child porn or porn of any kind. It merely states content "unsuitable for children". Maybe stealing isn't a suitable activity for children? Now who is perverting the issue here? I remember previous articles about the Aussie Cyber-Safety filtering program had various people saying people agianst it were in favor of child porn. Also the first link has a mention of Child Porn also being the rallying horn behind the call for deep packet inspection in the U.S.
I really don't care enough about your opinion to take 2 seconds to support my claims with more links, so think whatever you like. | |
|
| | | | 
norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
 ·WestNet Broadband
| It does reference child pron, just read this topic, I'm not going to reprint all that.
The issue of children is just the tip of the iceberg, centralized filtering has a lot more issues than you not doing a little research about the link it is commenting on. Not going off at you, it all just annoys me they think this will be the answer for the issues on the internet.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke | |
|
| | |
| | | beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | Re: Haha Market forces usually are not used to resolve LEGAL issues. Theft, for example...how about we get rid of police and let "market forces" take care of thieves. | |
|
| | | | 
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Haha Often regular activities are criminalized in order to protect a market share, however. | |
|
| | 
fatness
subtle
Janitor
join:2000-11-17
fishing
·EarthLink
Host:
Earthlink DSL
TekSavvy
Forum Feature Requ..
Need Site Help?
Rants, Raves, and ..
| said by beaups :What is the better solution to the problem? We don't like throttling. We hate the crappy RIAA lawsuits. We detest the possible ISP "piracy tax". Caps are evil. So what IS the better solution? Leave the internet alone.
Prosecute crimes.
That's the solution.
People advocating measures like this are just big-government advocates who want the government to monitor and control other people's behavior. | |
|
| | | beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH
1 edit | Re: Haha I am not advocating these measures nor do I necessarily disagree with your position. But, how do "they" prosecute the crimes? All of the efforts thus far have been failures. So instead of us all pointing out why all of these measures are bs, inhumane, unconstitutional, etc...let's first acknowledge that there is a problem and then post some ideas on how we would fix it if we were in control. Unless of course everybody here condones the illegal behaviour.
In the case of P2P it's not the "few ruining it for the many"...most of us know it's the "many ruining it for the few". | |
|
| | k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
| said by beaups :What is the better solution to the problem? We don't like throttling. We hate the crappy RIAA lawsuits. We detest the possible ISP "piracy tax". Caps are evil. So what IS the better solution? The better solution is for the industry to keep up with the times. Get away from this DRM crap, and just sell MP3s. Wanna see your profit margin shoot up?
I'm sorry but even I don't carry around a CD player anymore  . CD players went out of style when the iPod came out that could play MP3s. Now the majority of people have a iPod or an MP3 player. This isn't rocket science, its common sense. | |
|
| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| well you cant expect government officals to know a WoW patch from someone pirating a Pixar film, gray hairs in the governments of the world probally have to call tech support to stop that blinking 12:00
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|
| | beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | Re: Haha Maybe WOW can spend their own money on bandwidth instead of expecting us to distribute their patches for them | |
|
GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
|  Question is what % of users will it stop or slow down
Conroy and company are spending millions on a game of whack-a-mole that, if history is any indication, simply won't work.
Stephen Conroy indicates they'll take aim at P2P traffic as well:
The Government understands that ISP-level filtering is not a 'silver bullet'. We have always viewed ISP-level filtering as one part of a broader government initiative It seems many here think in terms of black & white, all or nothing. But that isn't the real world as Australia's Conroy admits. If the filtering stops 50%, 60%, 75% of illegal traffic, is it then a failure? I would say no and so would many others. But some subscribe to the theory that if even 1 person beats the system, then the system is a TOTAL failure.
If a law enforcement system for crimes like burglary, theft, rape, or murder was abolished just because it can't achieve perfection then we wouldn't have any crime prevention and punishment at all.
The same applies to the internet. You don't give up trying to stop online crime just because it is hard to do and can't achieve complete success.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
|
| 
Sabre
Di relung hatiku bernyanyi bidadari
join:2005-05-17
·Comcast
| Re: Question is what % of users will it stop or slow down said by GOLFnSUN :If the filtering stops 50%, 60%, 75% of illegal traffic, is it then a failure? I would say no and so would many others. But some subscribe to the theory that if even 1 person beats the system, then the system is a TOTAL failure. This is a valid argument, but there's more to it than that. Not being Australian and thus having limited exposure to this story, I would nonetheless raise two counterpoints:
• Many, including lawmakers, tend to push this sort of filtering system as exactly that, a perfect solution that will stop everything. While that's effectively impossible, as you've noticed, filtering "solutions" frequently aren't sold that way. This leads to the uninformed (often those same politicians) believing they have a foolproof solution, becoming flustered when it's not, and then continuing to try to make it foolproof, with predictable results.
• It'd be impossible to judge the success rate without also having a comparable false-positive rate to go after. The more successful an illegal-filtration system is, the more likely it'll have a higher false-positive rate. Rarely discussed in questions like this is what an acceptable level of false-positives versus true-positives would be. In addition, in cases of false-positives, what recourse exists? Suppose a content owner doesn't want his/her/its data filtered out - how will this be handled, who is responsible, and what, if any, compensation would apply?
A truly successful filtering system isn't one that stops 100% of illegal content. It has to also stop 0% of legal content. This makes the question much murkier and much harder to find a middle-ground solution that is appropriate.
--
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.
Save American Soccer - Stop the MLS! | |
|
| | ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
| Re: Question is what % of users will it stop or slow down Actually, this is a system that will become less effective if it attempts to filter P2P. Even if we can assume that a filtering system can successfully sniff and filter pirated files and/or other material the government wishes to block, that ability goes away when encryption is applied. And everyone knows that encryption is coming, and with many programs notifying users of new versions and some making upgrading just a one or two-click process, the number of people utilizing encryption is going to rapidly increase once it's incorporated into the major P2P clients. | |
|
ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Thieves don't ruin for all? Theres only 20 million or so of them Austrians. Not all of them access the interweb. Just boot thieves off if they get caught. Where else are they going to get their internet access from?
They could always go one step up and have biometric tracking to access the internet within the country. Easier to track. | |
|
| beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | Re: Thieves don't ruin for all? Last I checked Australia and Austria were two very different places....goodness. | |
|
| Pv8man
join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN | There you go Ninjatutle, suggest biometric security to access the internet.
Seriously? You scare me a bit
By the way ninja, what is your profession? Just curious | |
|
| |
ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | Re: Thieves don't ruin for all? Advertising. Before this I was in marketing, 2by2.net and Quixtar respectively. Were you a past client? | |
|
| | | |
| | | 
marketingheh
@sbcglobal.net |
Figures. Almost all of the IT woes to consumers are begun because of MARKETING. | |
|
| | 
Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| said by Pv8man :By the way ninja, what is your profession? Just curious Ask a lot of people here, and they'll likely answer that with anti-p2p troll/MAFIAA shill.
As for the so-called attempts to block p2p, it isn't going to work. I see a lot of Australians using proxies, VPN and other means such as encryption to get around the filters. There are other ways of getting content than BitTorrent and other p2p. And it is going to make that country's politicians extremely unpopular.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
| |
|
| | | beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH
| Re: Thieves don't ruin for all? The point with most of these measures is to curb the "casual pirate". Serial #'s can be found online, activation can be cracked, DRM can be hacked, etc...but companies still do it because it alleviates a certain % of would-be thieves.
Think about the sensormatic tags that set of the alarms in retail stores. Are they fool-proof? Far from it. The professional thief can disable them, remove them, etc...but it is a deterrent. Companies wouldn't spend the $.06 per product on them if they served no purpose. | |
|
| | | | TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| Re: Thieves don't ruin for all? said by beaups :The point with most of these measures is to curb the "casual pirate". Serial #'s can be found online, activation can be cracked, DRM can be hacked, etc...but companies still do it because it alleviates a certain % of would-be thieves. And alienates a greater % of legitimate would-be customers. | |
|
|
|
GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Things are the same all over. said by Mr Matt : Many years ago a US Congressman or Senator wanted to pass a law rounding the value of pi off to 3 because his grandson or grandnephew had a problem memorizing the value of pi out to six decimal places. Not true. As can best be determined a STATE legislator in Indiana in 1897 tried to get a law enacted that set a value for Pi based on some phony math theory about "squaring the circle". »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill
Another more recent claim about Pi and religious claims in Alabama was false:
»www.snopes.com/religion/pi.asp
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
|
maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA | The future of Australia.... 
--
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" | |
|
| 
Xizer
join:2004-02-05
New York, NY
| Re: The future of Australia.... said by maartena : lol, get out | |
|
Xure
join:2003-11-14
Beverly Hills, CA
| At least... At least somebody is getting paid. Nice racket there. One just wishes they were in the loop with some crappy software that the gov can buy for all these millions.
You can just see some software executive buying a new Porche after hearing these news. | |
|
Xizer
join:2004-02-05
New York, NY | Australia is a fine competitor They've somehow found a way to suck more ass than the U.S. | |
|
mrreaper0
join:2004-05-19
Costa Mesa, CA | ... so many freedoms lost and so much money wasted all under the guise of 'protecting the children'... | |
|
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | VPN to Russia FTW!!! VPN to Russia FTW!!!!!!!!!!! | |
|
james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica
| P2P vs Piracy The linked articles talk about P2P, but not piracy. P2P is the most common way pedophiles share and trade their photos and videos, so it's actually a better idea for them to be looking at P2P.
The problem is that all these resources are going into "blocking" access to those things when they should in fact be used to find the people who are looking at it.
This is just going to make those perverts harder to find as they use encryption to get around the blocks, and in turn make their traffic impossible to see, when before they would just trade in unencrypted and traceable methods which made them easy to catch.
Idiocy. | |
|
|
See 6 replies to this post |
|
martini161
join:2008-08-26 | BS this is bullshit. p2p is perfectly legal! i use it for perfectly legal purposes all the time, for example, downloading a dvd copy of a movie i own on VHS! am i a pirate? | |
|
| beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | Re: BS I assume you are being sarcastic, but downloading a dvd version of a movie you own on VHS is far from legal... | |
|
| | Tarball
join:2006-06-09
Saint Louis, MO | Re: BS But he does have a point. What about World of Warcraft? It uses bittorrent for all its patches. How are they going to separate the illegal from the legal and only block the former? | |
|
| |
martini161
join:2008-08-26 | no, it is legal. i own the rights to view that movie, make back ups of it etc. i have the right to view that movie how ever i want weather it be on DVD vhs or bluray | |
|
| | | beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | Re: BS No, martini, you do not. | |
|
ARGONAUT
got ping?
join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN | ? I thought µTorrent 1.9 alpha with it's (UDP torrenting) was to get around this stuff? | |
|
axiomatic
join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX
| Doomed This can't work.
Anyone with even the most basic understanding of TCP/IP networks could work around this easily.
Now think of the 15 year old geek high school male student who is motivated to "rub one out" and he could probably work around this in about 30 seconds. | |
|
secure ikon
@com.au
| castrating the internet dear sirs --
we are being subjected to increasing authoritarianism--dissent is discouraged--comments are censored--and reality is minimised..
our masters even have developed a language that is specific to their many professions--
the state gestaten have a dialect all their own,,people frustrated with the social engineering routinely commit suicides and murders and contemplate this--as do we all at times.
police slaughter people on the streets with flimsy pretexts,and our domestic violence legislation is a sham that simply incites yet more violence..the stats and facts are supressed as a political and idealogical embarassment.
our children are raised,,by the state,we are discouraged from parental discipline,hasnt that worked out well?? this generation is managing brawls and gang warfare on an epic scale,,i guess the non violent method of raising children is a failure,,real and current stats on violence show the new approved child raising method doesnt work--
child abuse is rampant--and the authorities are fumbling and supressing the truth about that too.
to solve all these social problems,,we shall cut the cable that brings us the disturbing information,,we will deny the public the ability to confirm the incompetance of the police,judicary,and politicians and feminist lesbian academics..
and so it goes--our slide further into third world status--skilled workers are leaving and wishing and planning to leave,,australia is indeed--becoming the white trash of the pacific,,
australia---strangling democracy and sniffing the butt of the usa and england while grovelling to everyone and anyone--however--australians are not listened to--we are ignored,,not black enough--not addicted enough--too violent--too passive--too ugly--too stupid--not ethnic--too ethnic--
screw australia we should have let the japs take it --it wasnt worth the effort --australia is being given away--
kevinski | |
|
|
|
|
Australia's 'Net Filter Plan Gets Worse
ftc filed some injunction on it and I knew some dumbass who fell for it and lost $300 even after I repeatedly warned him it was a pyramid scam. His response was, it's not a pyramid scam because they told me so at the seminar. lol
Things are the same all over.