 Aleck79
join:2003-07-23
College Station, TX | Again? wtf, this just happened about a month ago! | |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH | Re: Again? I thought the issue was not stealing rather the Vietnamese government encouraged fisherman to salvage under water copper cable. Unfortunately fisherman don't seem to be able to tell the difference between copper and fiber.
/tom | |
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| | netdogg3
join:2003-02-27
Staten Island, NY | Re: Again? On the outside doesn't both Fiber and Cable look the same? Maybe they couldn't tell the difference until they cut it. | |
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helloo
@qwest.net | Arrests for Vietnamese Fiber Thefts, Is it really worth your life?
well, is making a living really worth your life? | |
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| | james1
join:2001-02-26
antarctica | Re: Again? if it gets you killed, it isnt much of a living is it? | |
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| | | Aleck79
join:2003-07-23
College Station, TX
 ·Grande Communicati..
| Re: Again? said by james1  :if it gets you killed, it isnt much of a living is it? rofl, talk about irony.  | |
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| | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
 ·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| said by helloo :
Arrests for Vietnamese Fiber Thefts, Is it really worth your life? Maybe it was before your time, but long before the US started the current two wars that it's fighting to not win, the US was fighting other no-win wars. The first was in Korea around 1950, and the second was in and around Vietnam.
The Korean war has never ended, although it's been a long time since a shot has been fired in anger over there. Both parties seem content to stand at the frontier and give each-other the skunk eye for the last 50 years. It's probably the longest Mexican standoff in history.
Vietnam is a different story. The US lost that war. We cut bait and ran, allowing the Communists to overtake the entire region. So Vietnam is a Communist totalitarian state. And in totalitarian states, the value of human life tends to be quite low.
Note that even in the relatively free nations along the Pacific Rim, harsh punishments for minor offenses, like littering, are the norm. Singapore is a good example of this. This may seem barbaric to Americans today, who don't care to answer to any higher authority. But back when cops handed out citations for jaywalking, we didn't have armed warfare going on every day on our city's streets, or out of control SUVs hurtling into people's suburban homes on a regular basis. | |
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commodog
Premium
join:2000-02-03
Oxnard, CA | Re: Again? The only thing I have to disagree on is the Korean war part, shots are fired daily over there in the JSA, you just don't hear about it.
Currahee | |
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| | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| Re: Again? said by commodog :The only thing I have to disagree on is the Korean war part, shots are fired daily over there in the JSA, you just don't hear about it. The term "in anger" has a very specific military meaning. The fact of the matter is that there has been no warfare taking place during that time. | |
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| | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| said by Time4aNAP :The Korean war has never ended, although it's been a long time since a shot has been fired in anger over there. Both parties seem content to stand at the frontier and give each-other the skunk eye for the last 50 years. It's probably the longest Mexican standoff in history. America cut bait and ran in Korea also. If you ever get a chance, go to the Korean War Memorial in Seoul (it is within walking distance of the Yongsan South Post facility aka 'Dragon Hill' if you are in half way decent shape and is a KOREAN monument and not a US propaganda monument, so do not go if you can not take criticism of the US), it has a totally different view of what America did at the 'end' of the Korean war than what we are taught over in the US, and displays the letters that were sent from Washington DC to prove it. That shows US public opinion forced the 'end' of the Korean war before it was completed leaving a country divided and shooting at each other (and each thinking the other is evil).
No, the US has not been able to stay the course since WWII, we get involved, then cut and run when things get tough or take longer than expected and leave a mess behind. Interesting how the media portrays one view over here, and the people over there see something totally different.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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| | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| Re: Again? said by RayW :America cut bait and ran in Korea also. Nope. There are still US troops at Panmunjeom, as well as many other parts of South Korea.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un···th_Korea
If you ever get a chance, go to the Korean War Memorial in Seoul... Thanks, but I'm already familiar with the history.
One place that I would like to visit one day (if it still exists) is an orphanage that was founded by my mother's first husband, who was a Marine pilot. He was killed in action when his F9F ran out of fuel and crashed into the side of a mountain in 1953. Although the orphanage is located in what is now North Korea, my mother was granted special permission by the Communists to cross into North Korea to search for it. She was pleased to find that it was still in operation some 30 years later, and still bore his name. I'd sure like to see it around after another 30 years, and let its residents know that they're not forgotten.
No, the US has not been able to stay the course since WWII, we get involved, then cut and run when things get tough or take longer than expected and leave a mess behind. Interesting how the media portrays one view over here, and the people over there see something totally different. All three Cold War superpowers have a fair share of the blame for the proxy wars and puppet governments that they initiated, and to the innocents who were the primary casualties. The tragedy of the Korean War was that none of the Allies had any real plans for what to do with Korea after the Japanese were vanquished during WWII. The country was divvied up between the Americans and the Soviets, using a map from a magazine! I can't say whether Korea as a whole is better or worse off than if US forces simply withdrew and let the Soviets become the custodians for all of Korea. But IMO we owed them more than what we gave them.
Vietnam was a tragedy because the US had been ignoring Ho Chi Minh ever since the end of WWI. Ho spent half of his adult life trying to earn the Americans' support for Vietnamese nationhood, most notably helping the Flying Tigers and other American forces, prior to and during WWII. But when it came time for America to make good on its agreement with France that French colonies abroad should be liberated after the Allies liberated France, the newly-bellicose American people saw Vietnam as an opportunity to make up for the unsatisfying Korean cease-fire. And as a country, we have failed to learn anything from that grave mistake.
I have a personal policy that if I happen to over-commit myself, I always honor the first promise that I made, and do what it takes to make it up for the latter broken promise(s). I do this as a rule, and spend no time calculating which scenario might mitigate my losses. If I screw up, I'm in no moral position to be thinking of myself first. If America had followed this simple rule, a lot of needless suffering would have been avoided. | |
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| | bulldoggie
join:2005-09-14
Fresno, CA | The Deadliest Catch. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Again? said by bulldoggie :The Deadliest Catch. LOL | |
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Chiyo
Save Me Konata-Chan
Premium
join:2003-02-20
Minneapolis, MN
clubs: | Talk about steep punishment WOW the death penalty! he didn't kill anyone nobodies life ws lost during the thefts. I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime. | |
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Mactron
el Camino Real
Premium
join:2001-12-16
CM94sv | Re: Talk about steep punishment Loose your life or a hand... choices, choices.  | |
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supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL | Re: Talk about steep punishment Nah, nah, I steal no fiber. Honest. Honest man. No fiber here. No fiber. ROFLMAO! | |
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Lil Jon
Premium
join:2006-06-26
Lawrenceville, GA
| said by Chiyo :WOW the death penalty! he didn't kill anyone nobodies life ws lost during the thefts. I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime. yup they're harsh over there... | |
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GoodyearMark
Premium
join:2001-05-02
Goodyear, AZ
·Cox HSI
| said by Chiyo :WOW the death penalty! he didn't kill anyone nobodies life ws lost during the thefts. I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Impressive, if we had harsh justice like this in this country we could solve a lot of our nation's woes.
--
Got a V3 or a V3i or an L7? Want to get the most out of them? Check out my sites »hacktheV3.com and »hacktheV3i.com and »hacktheL7.com
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| | keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA | Re: Talk about steep punishment It does not seem to be working in many areas... Hmmm, Iraq hangs everybody, Turkey, well you get the idea.
The harsher the punishment never seems to work, but no one really has figured out a perfect system or we would never have crime? | |
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jinjimbob
Troy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13
Enumclaw, WA
·Qwest.net
| Re: Talk about steep punishment said by morbo :said by keyboard5684 :no one really has figured out a perfect system or we would never have crime? here's a secret: there will always be crime. harsh punishments are reflective of the society, and shouldn't be considered a deterrent (just like death penalty isn't effective as a deterrent--it's reflective of what society believes should happen to someone that did that crime). Not a deterrent, but it is a solution.
Someone who is dead doesn't commit the crime again. Should be used here more. | |
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| | | | | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO | Re: Talk about steep punishment Couldn't agree more. If a person is deemed unsuitable to live in society then that person should be removed from society. And I am not talking about putting them somewhere, I am talking about removing them completely. | |
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| | | | | | rmdir
join:2003-03-13
Chicago, IL | Re: Talk about steep punishment If they kill you for taking fiber, wonder what they'd do to Spamford Wallace and his type? | |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | Re: Talk about steep punishment deterrent meaning "fear of punishment" and so people refrain from committing crimes to begin with. not people that commit crimes (in your example, they are dead) are deterred from committing future crimes. | |
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| | | | | | Asmodeus1
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| Re: Talk about steep punishment said by morbo :deterrent meaning "fear of punishment" and so people refrain from committing crimes to begin with. not people that commit crimes (in your example, they are dead) are deterred from committing future crimes. it means both things, but i suppose you're a little limited in you thinking... | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Singapore has no crime problem and their system is pretty harsh as well.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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La Luna
Surviving Ashraful
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
clubs:
·Optimum Online
 ·Vonage
edit:
June 24th, @07:35PM
| said by morbo :said by keyboard5684 :no one really has figured out a perfect system or we would never have crime? here's a secret: there will always be crime. harsh punishments are reflective of the society, and shouldn't be considered a deterrent (just like death penalty isn't effective as a deterrent--it's reflective of what society believes should happen to someone that did that crime). Here's another secret, and it has nothing to do with your disingenuous comment about "what society believes should happen to someone who did that crime"....you might want to recheck your outdated sources. New studies show that the death penalty is indeed a deterrent, and in addition, where there's been a moratorium placed on the death penalty, murders have actually increased, as well as when death sentences are commuted:
Death penalty saves lives
A New Haven Register Editorial
06/24/2007
....Largely ignored in the death penalty debate is a third generation of studies by economists showing that both a death sentence and execution have a deterrent effect.
Since 2001, 12 studies by economists using better data and more advanced techniques have all found the death penalty is a strong deterrent, preventing from three to 18 more murders, according to a review of the studies given in 2006 testimony before Congress by Paul H. Rubin. Rubin is a professor of economics and law at Emory University.
One study looked at the impact of the 1972 through 1976 moratorium on executions following a U.S. Supreme Court ruling. It found an increase in murder rates during the moratorium and, 70 percent of the time, a drop when a state passed new death penalty legislation.
Another study by an economist at the University of Colorado not only found a deterrent effect but that commuting death sentences resulted in an increase of murders....
»www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm···81&rfi=6
John Lott: Death as Deterrent
Wednesday, June 20, 2007
By John Lott
....This research was conducted as violent crime rates were plummeting while executions were rising sharply. Between 1991 and 2000, there were 9,114 fewer murders per year, while the number of executions per year rose by 71.
Generally, the studies over the last decade that examined how the murder rates in each state changed as they changed their execution rate found that each execution saved the lives of roughly 15 to 18 potential murder victims. Overall, the rise in executions during the 1990s accounts for about 12 to 14 percent of the overall drop in murders.
Of course, there are exceptions to capital punishment deterring murder. One particular kind of crime where the death penalty shows no significant deterrent effect is multiple victim public shootings. This was the conclusion of a study I performed with Bill Landes at the University of Chicago.
This exception, however, is easy to explain: The vast majority of these killers either commit suicide or are killed at the scene of the crime. The threat of legal punishment, including the death penalty, doesn’t really affect their actions since so many of these criminals expect to die in the course of their crime.
Compared to more sophisticated Europeans, Americans long have been portrayed as uneducated yokels for supporting the death penalty. And the Supreme Court has looked to guidance from other countries in justifying limits on the death penalty. But Americans have stuck to their guns, with the majority of Americans in a May 2006 Gallup poll even feeling that the death penalty should be used more frequently.
Possibly it is time to concede that everyday Americans might actually know something that some members of the Supreme Court have had a hard time understanding.
»www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,284336,00.html
Studies say death penalty deters crime
By ROBERT TANNER
AP National Writer
Jun 11, 4:53 AM EDT
....."Science does really draw a conclusion. It did. There is no question about it," said Naci Mocan, an economics professor at the University of Colorado at Denver. "The conclusion is there is a deterrent effect."
A 2003 study he co-authored, and a 2006 study that re-examined the data, found that each execution results in five fewer homicides, and commuting a death sentence means five more homicides. "The results are robust, they don't really go away," he said. "I oppose the death penalty. But my results show that the death penalty (deters) - what am I going to do, hide them?".....
»hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/···=DEFAULT
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~~"As long as America is an infidel enemy, terrorizing it is a duty." Sayed Imam Abdul-Aziz el-Sheriff~~
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| | | | | | Asmodeus1
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| Re: Talk about steep punishment said by morbo :it's obvious we are just going to disagree on the death penalty and whether or not it is a deterrent. that's right... go ahead and close your mind off to a subject that is so complex that you've thrown in the towel in the name of agreeing to disagree... like i said before, you are limited in your thinking... | |
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| | | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by morbo :it's obvious we are just going to disagree on the death penalty and whether or not it is a deterrent. How about this?
We get rid of the death penalty if life without parole would equal the following:
- no vists from anyone except legal council and no news of personal well-being should be allowed out
- no phone calls in or out
- in their cells 23 hours a day
- go back to hard labor
OR, the condemned could have a choice. Death penalty or be the subject of medical experiments. | |
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hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12
| said by La Luna :New studies show that ... where there's been a moratorium placed on the death penalty, murders have actually increased, as well as when death sentences are commuted:
There is no death penalty here where I live. I honestly cannot remember when the last murder occurred here. Yet almost everyone I know owns at least ten firearms and about half of them carry a concealed weapon on their person or in their automobile. So with no death penalty and all these folks packing heat, we ought to be filling each other with holes rather than your "study". I guess we're all just a bunch of good ole boys never meanin' no harm. 
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The Gospel of Supply Side Jesus | |
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TigerNutz
Laissez les bons temps rouler
Premium
join:2000-12-23
Lafayette, LA
·Cox HSI
| said by keyboard5684 :It does not seem to be working in many areas... Hmmm, Iraq hangs everybody, Turkey, well you get the idea. It would work if it were televised during prime time.
Yeah, thats it! Another reality TV show!
now for a catchy title....... | |
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| | | | pcnetworx1
join:2005-09-21
Bethel Park, PA
·AT&T CallVantage
| Re: Talk about steep punishment There is a George Carlin skit on just that idea... something about rope and boiling oil and the speed controlled by applause during Monday Night Football...
Sadly, it was ridiculous when he first said it. Now the sketch sounds plausible with reality TV. | |
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Paulg
Formerly Arctic Wolf
Premium
join:2004-03-15
Hubbell, MI
clubs: | Re: Talk about steep punishment "Naked up-side-down crusifictions at half time of Monday night football"
-George Carlin
(I cant figure out how to spell it)
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I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. | |
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| | | | Asmodeus1
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| said by TigerNutz :said by keyboard5684 :It does not seem to be working in many areas... Hmmm, Iraq hangs everybody, Turkey, well you get the idea. It would work if it were televised during prime time. Yeah, thats it! Another reality TV show! now for a catchy title....... actually it would work if the death penalty itself had any teeth... as it stands now, you have death row inmates who are without a shadow of a doubt guilty of the murders that they have committed, rotting and waiting for their time to finally pay their victims, their families and society the justice that is wanting... however, because of the current legal horsecrap that is involved in death penalty cases, they are allowed appeal after appeal after appeal, which protracts the process for many years and in some cases going into decades... it's a miscarriage of justice to the real victims that this is allowed to happen and all it does is allow the time to go by to strike sympathy in the hearts of people to embrace the murderer not the murdered, to keep the candle burning for the living sub-human evil, drech that killed for their own selfish reasons and forget those that were inflicted with that selfishness...
that's why the death penalty has been allowed to come under attack and become a toothless set of statutes with no end in sight to rectifying it... either remove it completely or revamp it completely, but something must be done either way... | |
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GercekSeytan
Rockin' with Raki
join:2001-10-19
Turkey
·TTNet
edit:
June 24th, @10:08PM
| said by keyboard5684 :It does not seem to be working in many areas... Hmmm, Iraq hangs everybody, Turkey, well you get the idea. The harsher the punishment never seems to work, but no one really has figured out a perfect system or we would never have crime? Ahem. No one has been hanged in (the) Republic of Turkey in nearly 30 years. There could indeed be a problem.
»archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meas···dex.html
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Yes, it is I, the resident crackpot and curmudgeon. | |
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cork1958
Cork
join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI
·Charter Pipeline
edit:
June 25th, @07:06AM
| said by GoodyearMark :said by Chiyo :WOW the death penalty! he didn't kill anyone nobodies life ws lost during the thefts. I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Impressive, if we had harsh justice like this in this country we could solve a lot of our nation's woes. And didn't take so long to carry the sentence out!!
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| MrBentor
join:2003-02-18
Seattle, WA | I think it depends on how much or how often you steal or rob. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | The punishment of course fits the crime. Hell, in america the death penalty is very under used. If it was applied to alot more crimes, we might actually see crime drop. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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grydlok
join:2004-01-06
Richmond, VA | Death Sweet Jesus! I guess they don't play about stealing. | |
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ggoose_69
join:2003-12-23
Everett, WA | . In some areas they cane you for spitting on the ground, and don't even think about spitting out gum unless you have a death wish. | |
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| ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
| Re: . said by ggoose_69 :In some areas they cane you for spitting on the ground, and don't even think about spitting out gum unless you have a death wish. You're thinking of Singapore. However, you can't spit out gum there because chewing gum is banned.
So are poppyseed bagels. The reasoning is that you could use those seeds to extract opium. Yeah, right. | |
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Lineage
join:2006-10-19
USA | Wow Wow I think the death penalty is too much for this...
I wonder what they do to people who steal apples? o.O | |
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Noah Vail
Serial Thread Killer
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA | Now.... ...for SPAMMERS, I could see the Death Penalty.
Maybe Boomers too.
NV
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Abortion: Improves the Gene Pool! | |
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Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | Re: Now.... Heck if you are caught with a cell phone in North Korea you are executed.
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Remember safe sex does not prevent crabs. | |
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| | | keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA | Re: Now.... You saying that would get you executed there. Shhh.... | |
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PhoenixAZ
Joshua
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Phoenix, AZ | They need it... This way, people will think twice before they decide to break the law. | |
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Elite
join:2002-10-03
Orange, CT | Done. Bet there won't be any more stolen fiber.
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AMD, because it's just better. | |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: | me too I also believe the punishment does not fit the crime.
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www.LakeSemaJ.com | |
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04192377
BooB Man
Premium
join:2007-04-07
Newark, DE | Cable Theft of cable = death! | |
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TigerNutz
Laissez les bons temps rouler
Premium
join:2000-12-23
Lafayette, LA
·Cox HSI
edit:
June 24th, @06:58PM
| Re: Cable said by 04192377 :Theft of cable = death! so maybe the carpet bombing and napalm doesn't look so bad now.....?? | |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß | DAMN! You should see what they do to guys that illegally download music! | |
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| romanlegion
join:2002-09-30
Mercedes, TX | Re: DAMN! good for vietnam ... listen to "we know everything" mentality .. pfff .... | |
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jay_bob
join:2004-03-12
Columbia, SC
·AT&T Southeast
| Darwin Award Candidates The undersea intercontinental fiber optic cables have metallic wires as well as the fiber under the jacket. The wires are for powering the repeaters which are located every couple of km along the cable run.
Depending on the length, the applied voltage may be in the 10 kV range. The thieves might not have to worry about the death penalty from the government, the cable will probably take care of things long before then  . | |
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ftthz
If love can kill hate can also save
join:2005-10-17 | Re: Darwin Award Candidates they were free to dig up coppper but fiber on the other hand is a death sentence. Hard to tell the difference underwater | |
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brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | hah This is a new term for hijacking someone's internet connection. | |
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Arrests for Vietnamese Fiber Thefts
