 
ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | Interesting idea but.... I can't see it coming into practice, as the minute the speeds dip people will be calling in like crazy for refunds etc.
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Ummmyea
@208.17.x.x
 from:
techjoe 
| Re: Interesting idea but.... please refer to the TOS where it says speed is gauranteed.
And if you find it, please post it here. | |
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N10Cities
SILENCE I Keel You
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Roland, OK
clubs:
1 edit | Re: Interesting idea but.... said by Ummmyea :
please refer to the TOS where it says speed is gauranteed.
And if you find it, please post it here.
................. | |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | Re: Interesting idea but.... Exactly. That's why refunds aren't appropriate.
If you want refunds, then get a connection with a guarantee. | |
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Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting | Re: Interesting idea but.... Right-O! | |
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX
clubs: | Fact is no one does unless you want to pay a ridiculous amount a month. | |
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crying morons
@bellsouth.net
from:
CrazyFingers
| It clearly states in most broadband TOS that it is a "BEST EFFORT" service. If you are too stupid to understand that, you DO NOT deserve to have broadband. Most companies do their best to provide you with the best possible speeds. If you would like a guaranteed bandwidth range and guaranteed 24/7 up time then you need to look at the ds1/ds3 arena. These are guaranteed lines and they cost what you would expect to pay for the service you will get from them. DSL/Cable/BPL- these services are made to be cheap- so don't b*tch when you don't get what your buddy gets who lives down the road. Granted if you have a line issue, it should be fixed. But just keep that in the back of your head a 1.544mb symmetric ds1 costs several hundred dollars a month most isps have 6.0mb asymmetric line for under 60 dollars. Think about that the next time you have something to whine about! | |
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NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
 ·VOIPo
| Re: Interesting idea but.... said by crying morons :
It clearly states in most broadband TOS that it is a "BEST EFFORT" service. If you are too stupid to understand that, you DO NOT deserve to have broadband. Most companies do their best to provide you with the best possible speeds. If you would like a guaranteed bandwidth range and guaranteed 24/7 up time then you need to look at the ds1/ds3 arena. These are guaranteed lines and they cost what you would expect to pay for the service you will get from them. DSL/Cable/BPL- these services are made to be cheap- so don't b*tch when you don't get what your buddy gets who lives down the road. Granted if you have a line issue, it should be fixed. But just keep that in the back of your head a 1.544mb symmetric ds1 costs several hundred dollars a month most isps have 6.0mb asymmetric line for under 60 dollars. Think about that the next time you have something to whine about!
You make an excellent point but how many times do you see someone post: "my 14.95 a month DSL line has been down and Verizon is making me lose 10 thousand dollars a day" or "Comcast caused me to lose my business because users can't get to my web site or my email is down etc..."
Lose my business? Then get a business grade circuit that has an SLA with 5 nines so that your livelihood is not based on a single point of failure.
But whine they do....  | |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
 ·Comcast
| said by crying morons :
It clearly states in most broadband TOS that it is a "BEST EFFORT" service. If you are too stupid to understand that, you DO NOT deserve to have broadband. Most companies do their best to provide you with the best possible speeds. If you would like a guaranteed bandwidth range and guaranteed 24/7 up time then you need to look at the ds1/ds3 arena. These are guaranteed lines and they cost what you would expect to pay for the service you will get from them. DSL/Cable/BPL- these services are made to be cheap- so don't b*tch when you don't get what your buddy gets who lives down the road. Granted if you have a line issue, it should be fixed. But just keep that in the back of your head a 1.544mb symmetric ds1 costs several hundred dollars a month most isps have 6.0mb asymmetric line for under 60 dollars. Think about that the next time you have something to whine about!
Actually all you need is a T1 with an SLA. No need for a ds1/ds3.
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YourIP.US - Quickly Locate Your IP! | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Interesting idea but.... said by Rob :said by crying morons :
It clearly states in most broadband TOS that it is a "BEST EFFORT" service. If you are too stupid to understand that, you DO NOT deserve to have broadband. Most companies do their best to provide you with the best possible speeds. If you would like a guaranteed bandwidth range and guaranteed 24/7 up time then you need to look at the ds1/ds3 arena. These are guaranteed lines and they cost what you would expect to pay for the service you will get from them. DSL/Cable/BPL- these services are made to be cheap- so don't b*tch when you don't get what your buddy gets who lives down the road. Granted if you have a line issue, it should be fixed. But just keep that in the back of your head a 1.544mb symmetric ds1 costs several hundred dollars a month most isps have 6.0mb asymmetric line for under 60 dollars. Think about that the next time you have something to whine about!
Actually all you need is a T1 with an SLA. No need for a ds1/ds3. DS1 = T1, DS3 = T3. the acro's mean the same thing. theres a digital signal present for data.
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avantare
Go Tribe
join:2000-02-16
Farmington, MI | T-1's are Federally regulated for speed and up-time. I am also going to assume everything bigger is as well.
Chuck
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Warner Music Group CEO Edgar Bronfman, Jr. "We're not greedy. We just want more money." | |
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80 percent
@telus.net
| I think they should be forced to offer at least 80% of the speeds advertised 80% of the time on 100% of the network.. If they can't do that then it's false advertising... You can't put ridiculous statments in the TOS and say it is actually enforcable....
If a company is too cheap to upgrade a congested area (they claim it's not going to relieve the problem) I think it's a joke. when I worked for Cogeco, that's all the engineers would keep saying.. "If we add more upstream and downstream frequencies by splitting the nodes, all that bw will be saturated the same night.."
I found it pathetic that they thought this was an acceptable answer to the problem..(basically do nothing but throttle) If you can't offer 80% of the speed during peak times, then you have a poorly designed/run network..(the caps are too high) | |
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NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
·VOIPo
| Re: Interesting idea but.... said by 80 percent :
I think they should be forced to offer at least 80% of the speeds advertised 80% of the time on 100% of the network..
I found it pathetic that they thought this was an acceptable answer to the problem..(basically do nothing but throttle) If you can't offer 80% of the speed during peak times, then you have a poorly designed/run network..(the caps are too high)
Ahhhh perhaps yes but then the companies need to build the product using the bottoms up approach. Figure out the cost to engineer it, price it accordingly and then offer it in accordance with proper design.
This stuff does not just happen and get "productized" for free.
The problem is that people don't want to pay for quality. They want OC-192 bandwidth for 14.95 a month.
So your points are well taken but ALL of the carriers need to be careful of what the sell if they can't support it and make a decent margin on it to support it.
Am I alone in this view? | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by Ummmyea :
please refer to the TOS where it says speed is gauranteed.
And if you find it, please post it here.
if you want guarantees, buy a connection with a SLA e.g. a T1 line.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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pahuser
@comcast.net
from:
Vvian Kalyss
| Re: Interesting idea but.... Before I rant, I do understand there may be times where speeds are perhaps a tad slower. I know why this happens, and can occasionally live with it. Having said that, I guarantee you this. If it becomes a problem, and I don't get the advertised speed, they will fix it. If it slows down, I guarantee you, I will call them again, and again, and again. I also guarantee you, that eventually, they will give me a refund (they've already done so). I can also guarantee you, that they will know I will switch to a provider that can give me adequate service, should their sub-par service continue.
So why do you select few get on some of these folks cases, accusing them of whining about it. You sound like a corporate crony. Good business practice is good business practice. Maybe they don't have to "guarantee anything" in their TOS. But I guarantee you this, if pathetic and continual sub-par service is what a company offers, then they cannot advertise speeds they cannot deliver, and they will not survive. | |
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cork1958
Cork
join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Interesting idea but.... said by pahuser :
Before I rant, I do understand there may be times where speeds are perhaps a tad slower. I know why this happens, and can occasionally live with it. Having said that, I guarantee you this. If it becomes a problem, and I don't get the advertised speed, they will fix it. If it slows down, I guarantee you, I will call them again, and again, and again. I also guarantee you, that eventually, they will give me a refund (they've already done so). I can also guarantee you, that they will know I will switch to a provider that can give me adequate service, should their sub-par service continue.
So why do you select few get on some of these folks cases, accusing them of whining about it. You sound like a corporate crony. Good business practice is good business practice. Maybe they don't have to "guarantee anything" in their TOS. But I guarantee you this, if pathetic and continual sub-par service is what a company offers, then they cannot advertise speeds they cannot deliver, and they will not survive.
Man, you said it all right there. Of the replies I've read down to here, the whiners are the ones you're responding to. Or, at least the "holier than thou" attitude type people. If my service were to go down to 80% efficiency for a prolonged period, you better believe I'm calling and complaining also. I don't expect a guarantee on speeds, but dang well better be getting close to "advertised" (NOT guaranteed) speeds. Expecting anything less makes you a total fool and also means I have a bridge for sale that I bet I can con you into buying simply because you are total pushover who is afraid to speak up!! 
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | I think capping the amount one can download is a lot worse, than an oversold cable node were you get slower speeds during peak hours. | |
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join:2005-12-05
Austin, TX
| the problem is that it is impossible to test for sure.. the web is one of those weakest link kind of things.
like for instance if you have 1.5m/384k dsl and your buddy has the same thing and you download from him you are going to get 384 at best. even though your down speed is 1.5, his upload is only 384, so you will get 384. and even less than that if he has any other applications taking up any bandwidth.
it works the same on the web, even though again you have 1.5m, the site you are going to may either not have that much bandwidth or have too many people using up that bandwidth at any given moment keeping you from achieving the 1.5 you are paying for.
throughput has both ends and everything in between to deal with. all we are buying is a speed from our houses to the internet portal... | |
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CaptainObvious
@americainter.net | There is a reason we charge $49 bucks for BEST EFFORT 1.5 DSL and $425 for a T1 with an SLA. If your bandwidth is really that important to your job or what ever then come off the money and pay for it. | |
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phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Look, being ripped off is paying $600 - $1100 for a T1 at 1,500 up/1,500 down. If you have RESIDENTIAL service, then you have no say so, simply because you SHARE the pipe. Now, if your speed issues stay at an absolute crawl for 6 hours or more a day (like 1000kbps less during off peak hours for the majority of the day), and the symptoms do not get better within a week or two, then you have right to complain, especially if your ping times suffer, and you get packet loss. If you depend on internet as much as you depend on air, then get something that has a guarantee'd transfer rate, instead of something that is cheaper.. | |
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| | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Interesting idea but.... I'd only pay $399.00 for that. Speak Easy has T-1 1.5 service for $399 a month. $299 if you want 384. But hey, you get that SLA..
This is no different than cell phones. When they were too expensive for everyone, people that had them, like me, had better service.
I really wish that broadband users would wake up and get a clue. Most of the bb users see what they WANT to see. Where does DSL state that the speeds advertised are guaranteed or what you will actually get? Anyone that uses DSL knows it's distance limited and speeds may vary on many factors. Cable modem service is the same thing. The speeds up "UP TO" speeds. So, please tell me where they are not advertising the speeds correctly? They are required to provide at least 256k to the end user by law to be broadband service.
I also wish that the DSL and cable companies would price service back up in the $80 range with $250.00 install fees so more people would jump off the net. | |
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| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by Jameson :Look, im not a big fan of sarcasm; Like i said, they better provied what im paying for or hell yes im going to call in every time my speeds drop below 100kbps of what im paying for. Its BS that people are getting screwed for their money, and to tell you the truth im sick of it. You are paying for speeds "up to" the speed advertised. What part of that don't you understand?
I think it's incredible how home/residential users think that they can get SLA based speeds for starting at $12.95 a month up to about $42.00 a month.
If this were the case, I bet ever business in the world would stop purchasing T-1 T-3, and other large trunk links for internet.
If you expect and desire internet that doesn't drop below 100kbps of what you pay for, then you should give up and get off the internet.
Even corporate networks drop below that point at times during heavy use. Get real!
This is nothing more than election year politics. Come on! What ever happened to gay marriage? | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| said by ptrowski :said by Jameson :said by ptrowski :I can't see it coming into practice, as the minute the speeds dip people will be calling in like crazy for refunds etc. Than they better watch their networks better. Right....and there is never any congestion etc when people come home. It all depends where you put your instrumentation. The closer you put the speed meters to your customer's computer, the more likely you are to eliminate general network congestion effects. And, really, if someone buys 7Mbps service and they're getting 7Mbps to their CO or head end, then they're getting what they pay for.
-tom
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: Interesting idea but.... said by JTRockville :I don't think anyone buys internet service just so they can reach the head-end. ISP are responsible for the backbone too, even if it's a service they contract for. True, but, you can be certain that the average refund-seeker's only going to be worried about how fast they can load a page from "site X". What if "site X" is the bottleneck and not the ISP or any of the hops in between?
said by JTRockville :Maybe backbone providers should be rated separately, so ISPs can make an informed choice too. Probably. A good instrumentation program would provide the tester with local loop speed, CO/head end to PoP speed and PoP to network perimeter speed, all in one handy report.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: Interesting idea but.... said by JTRockville :I think ISPs should be free to provide crappy speeds, as long as they don't say otherwise. Which is part of why my ISP sells theirs as "speeds up to" for any given speed tier. Though, they do tend to be good about reducing you to a lower payment tier if your line won't consistently support the speed of the tier you bought.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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pahuser
@comcast.net
| Re: Interesting idea but.... Accuse me of being overly literal, and comparing apples and oranges. But what if only 8 out of 10 of your cable channels came in at any given time. Sometimes 7 out of 10, 9 out of 10, 5 out of 10. You gonna keep paying for 10 out of 10 service. I guess there's no clause on the TV side of the house that says, you will get up to 100 channels, if you have, say cable internet. Oh, and for DSL users, on the voice side of the house, only 7 or 8 out of 10 of your calls will go through or stay connected, sometimes 5 or 6. But that's what you have to expect. You can't expect perfection here (hehehehe).
I find nothing wrong in holding these ISPs accountable for maintaining speeds at, or extremely close to what they advertise. Up to??? How much "up to" are you willing to give?? Y'all sound like a bunch of push overs. And, refunds are totally acceptable. I'm not going to pay for a service that doesn't meet my standard. | |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | Re: Interesting idea but.... I do believe that's the first time anyone's ever accused me of being a pushover when it comes to my expectations of residential broadband.
I may have to reconsider my position on refunds. | |
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| | | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| You don't buy cable tv with "up to 100 channels".. you DO, however, purchase speeds "up to X"... if you look at where it really matters, it's actually 256 or best effort.
DSL is actually a little better about this. They sell speeds at 256kbps UP TO 1.5 (Going on SBC here) and 1.5m UP TO 3M.
So once again, here we are.. we see what we want to see, right? On the 1.5 to 3MB tier, I suppose you are going to hold them to the 3mb because that's what you see, right? Ok, in the case of selling at least 80% of the advertised speeds, they would only have to deliver AT LEAST 80% of the 1.5 tier since they are selling you 1.5mb UP TO the 3.0. This has NEVER been a shocker people..
Come on.. wake up and get real for once would you? | |
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anonpronman
@optonline.net
| "And, really, if someone buys 7Mbps service and they're getting 7Mbps to their CO or head end, then they're getting what they pay for."
Really Tom? Are we paying for Co or head end access?
No that's right we are not paying for either. We are paying for internet access.
Foolish Mortals | |
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rudnicke
Premium
join:2004-10-23
Rantoul, IL | If that's the case, my Mediacom connection would end up being free each month. They never provide solid speed.
I'm all for it! | |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | Re: Interesting idea but.... Don't get me wrong, I think it is a good idea as I like to get what I pay for also. But would it ever happen? I doubt it.
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Make a Difference-Join Team Helix! | |
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MeanPeepsSuk
Premium
join:2004-11-21
Muddy Field
clubs:
| Re: Interesting idea but.... said by ptrowski :Don't get me wrong, I think it is a good idea as I like to get what I pay for also. But would it ever happen? I doubt it. It won't happen as long as they advertise/commit to "up to".. and no one can really enforce anything else.
What would be nice is if the ISPs are made to supply the average actual speed people are getting (of course in fine print, lol). Cable has shared issues, but DSL should be more accurately defined and not 2/3 of what you pay for on your best day (slight exaggeration but you get the idea). As of now, any problems are written off with a quote of "up to" from the TOS.
Besides, no one here wants a speed test.. Investigating speed issues might shut down those "free" access points y'all fight so hard for. | |
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NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
·VOIPo
1 edit | said by ptrowski :I can't see it coming into practice, as the minute the speeds dip people will be calling in like crazy for refunds etc. I could not agree with you more and that is what already happens now. Just read the threads for any service provider. I see constant complaints when their speakeasy test is off by a few bits...or their throughput is suffering at 7 pm when the kids do their cable downloading etc.
That move would drive tech support in any company off the wall. | |
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midconetcableuser
@midco.net | i'm paying 29.95 a month for 8mb down and i'm getting 11mb down and 256 kb up ofcourse i have fiber to the yard and hub is only 100 feet from my house mobile home trailer trash with high speed internet. | |
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MeanPeepsSuk
Premium
join:2004-11-21
Muddy Field
clubs: | Re: Interesting idea but.... how awesome for you!
btw, you forgot to login and thumbs-up yourself, lol. | |
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by midconetcableuser :
i'm paying 29.95 a month for 8mb down and i'm getting 11mb down and 256 kb up ofcourse i have fiber to the yard and hub is only 100 feet from my house mobile home trailer trash with high speed internet.
Based on the assumptions of people around here, you should call the isp and offer to pay them more since you are getting mroe than you are supposed to.. lol | |
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| henrikv
join:2003-11-09
15317-3510
| Here is a typical day on Adelphia in the Pittsbugh area:
7.10 AM
Download Speed: 6792 kbps (849 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 839 kbps (104.9 KB/sec transfer rate)
12.50 PM
Download Speed: 5301 kbps (662.6 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 834 kbps (104.3 KB/sec transfer rate)
4.30 PM
Download Speed: 4489 kbps (561.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 843 kbps (105.4 KB/sec transfer rate)
8.30 PM
Download Speed: 2298 kbps (287.3 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 844 kbps (105.5 KB/sec transfer rate)
I realize that the internet slows down during peak hours, but by 2/3 ??
or is the node I am on oversold? | |
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Jameson
10-8
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Fallbrook, CA
clubs: | Amen Yes! Great idea. Im sick of not getting the speeds i pay for!! | |
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odreian615
join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| IF that was the case I wouldnt have never found this site speed test are everywhere if a person wants to know their speed google or yahoo speedtest sbc told me to go on this site dslreports to check my speed and when my cousin got his comcast cable bb installed the guy use speakeasy and even went to this site to test the speed if you put a real time speedometer on your pc it will just use more ram and/or processor power | |
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| mlundin
join:2001-03-27
Lawrence, KS | Re: This won't work! That's hitting the nail on the head. | |
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hurley2217
@sectv.com
| AMEN! This guy knows what's going on.Plus the speed tests have to come from a server that is on your ISP's network.ISP's can't control the speeds, bandwidth etc. outside of their gateway.That's like being on the east coast and testing your speed from a speedtest site in California
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DueDueBrown
@208.17.x.x | Exactly...Many,Many things can cause congestion. That is the way things work. Internet is not gauranteed. Don't like that? Not an answer? Stop using the Interweb. go back to AOL. | |
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BobDobeleena
@208.17.x.x | Seems like... It would be a nightmare trying to figure out if someone is having legitimate network issues or if the problem is with the cust hardware. (router,NIC,High resource usage,low memory) | |
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Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR | I'm getting my speed I already check my speed fairly regularly.
(I know, I know, they are talking about Joe user, who most likely doesn't come to this site at all.) | |
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| wtansill
Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA
| Re: I'm getting my speed said by Heterman :I already check my speed fairly regularly. (I know, I know, they are talking about Joe user, who most likely doesn't come to this site at all.) Good for you. Most people don't have the knowledge to do that. Should that be a license to shaft them?
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That which does not kill me merely prolongs the agony. | |
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Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR
| Re: I'm getting my speed said by wtansill :Most people don't have the knowledge to do that. Should that be a license to shaft them? I never said it was. Most people don't have the knowledge to update their OS or AV software either. Should that be an excuse when their information is hijacked? | |
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lightzout
Premium
join:2005-07-29
San Anselmo, CA
| This is a really bad idea... I have had cable internet for as long as its been available and the price hasnt changed nearly as much as the the speed and reliability has increased. Considering I would pay for the best service available all the added bandwidth has been a "bonus" over the past few years. Adding more regulations and controls adds costs, red tape and would be a burden to the industry and require oversight by govwernmeent. This would actually make it harder to have competition in the high speed market (not that it really exists here in my area, no one touches comcast)Besides the examples he uses dont make a strong argument for othwer services as an alternative. Should I go back to a dsl if I am getting ~1200/350? Thats a pretty decent connection. No thanks professor. | |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Read the contract and watch out for Carlini! They have meters on every house to show the amount of electricity used. How come you don’t have a virtual Netometer on your screen showing how much bandwidth is being used? I bet some providers will love that notion!
Yes, they hype the multi-mega-bit-per-second-high-speed-unlimited-super-duper-connection, but the fine print says up to a certain speed (and in some cases do not abuse, with abuse not defined). Note the phrase "up to". In ideal conditions you can get "up to" which usually includes all the hidden handshaking overhead costs.
Just like that hamburger you see on the ad at the fast food store, you know you will never see one, yet it is not false advertising but creative advertising (yes, there was a court case on it once upon a time).
It would be nice if they could monitor the speeds and enforce the advertised big print and make the fine print illegal, but I think that professor needs to get out of the ivory tower and look at reality. Besides, what happens if the slowdown is away from the provider's control further up the net? Most people do not do speed tests to just the other side of the provider's control, they do it to another city.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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| hoyleysox
join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA | Re: Read the contract and watch out for Carlini! True, also, if users are running p2p software or are hijacked by spyare, they will percieve speeds to be slow, but that is only because they are maxing out their bandwidth, but may not be aware of it. That is not the ISPs fault. | |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI
| said by RayW :Just like that hamburger you see on the ad at the fast food store, you know you will never see one, yet it is not false advertising but creative advertising (yes, there was a court case on it once upon a time). If multiple tiers are added into the equation, there is the potential situation where one orders (and pays for) a Quarter Pounder with Cheese, only to receive a Cheeseburger. Should the consumer have recourse in this case? | |
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| carlini7
Premium
join:2003-12-19
Dundee, IL
| Hey Ray
Come to the Courtroom - THAT'S reality. Unfortunately the title "professor" must have some negative connotation to some. Maybe it's jealousy from those who never finished a degree.
Well I am not a full-time professor, I am an adjunct (part-time). My time is spent consulting and working as an expert witness. Degrees and certificates don't mean anything unless you win the case. RCDD. MCSE. Masters in Comp Sci - who cares. Some have been found to be dead wrong in design as well as operations.
My focus is more in investigations and system performance reviews - in order words when all the "experts" have done their job and failed, I come in and point out what they did wrong. How many wrongful death and multi-million dollar cases have you been on? And out of those - how many have you won? | |
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GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA | Evidentally education isn't worth much these days Because had anyone gone and looked they would have seen this is a BEST EFFORT service and that no guarantee on speed is being made. | |
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ib50MbSoon
Formerly TwoKDialup
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI | That's another thing I LOVE about Comcast I get the full 8000/768 Mb, 24/7/365
Don't need no stinkin' regulations, I've got Comcast! | |
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odreian615
join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: That's another thing I LOVE about Comcast depending on where you live my cousin got it he lives in a shitty part of Chicago where no one else got the net let alone a pc and he is getting anywhere from 8000/400k to 10000/400k he's geting the whole damn pipe where I live I couldnt get no more than 2700/400k cause alot of people have pc's and comcast hsi around here so I swicthed to dsl its cheaper I am getting about 2600/500k and for much cheaper | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| said by ib50MbSoon :I get the full 8000/768 Mb, 24/7/365 Don't need no stinkin' regulations, I've got Comcast! SAME! As a matter of fact, I get the fastest speeds for my area - All the time! 24/7.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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winky
Turn Left At The Moon
join:2001-02-11
Saint Louis, MO
| You ain't heard the yowling even begin yet If enough is made of this, you're gonna hear some screaming from the big boys. They'll keep quiet at the onset, but as soon as this becomes well known, the half truths and misinformation ads will fly. Unfortunately, I think the consumer will take the hit in the end because instead of fixing problems, they'll just downgrade expectations. Cable and Telcos operate on the sucker principal. They assume their customers know nothing and want to stay that way. Anyone ever get a notice from their ISP mentioning that their line speed isn't up to par and is being looked into? Anyone ever get a letter saying that their contract is up and can renew at a lower rate? It's easier and more profitable to grease only the squeaky wheel, pay fines to the FCC, advertise for new customers and take the loss on the ones you don't care to fix than concentrate on making sure your customers are getting what they paid for. Like SBC is gonna call me and say the config file on my modem is only half what I'm paying for......yeah right. Take the money and hope for the best. 
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From this point forward Hoedown, from the ballet RODEO, by Aaron Copeland will not be reffered to as "The Beef Song". Thank You | |
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jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
1 edit | Another dope... ...looking for any kind of attention. This one happens to be a professor.
How many variables determine the rate at which a comcast customer can receive data from a speakeasy server? | |
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John_W
Premium
join:2000-04-25
Worcester, MA
clubs:
·Vonage
| Re: Another dope... said by jjoshua :...looking for any kind of attention. This one happens to be a professor. How many variables determine the rate at which a comcast customer can receive data from a speakeasy server? Exactly. Some smoe gets a slow down in the afternoon. Speedtest shows he is getting half the speed he should be. A tracert shows the slow down on the backboane and not the ISP's network.
Is the local regulator guy going to go after the backbone provider and hold them accountable? How gives you a refund, the backbone or the ISP?
Too many variable to make work. The ISP will always blame someone else.
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Free Hat!! | |
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| carlini7
Premium
join:2003-12-19
Dundee, IL
| Re: Another dope...LOOK IN THE MIRROR Hey Joshua
I wrote an article based on some of the problems I see that are rampant in this industry.
You and the other pseudo-experts here couldn't shine my shoes. I'm an ADJUNCT Professor. That means I only teach part-time. I have worked in this industry for a long time on mission critical networks. I consult and am used by both sides as an expert witness in civil, federal and public utility commission hearings. Something you are probably clueless on.
We love reading these comments by those that have bought a $89 wireless router. connected their PC and now think they are God's gift to the industry. PLEASE......
Telcos don't want guarantees and if you look services up in the Tariffs -- WHERE YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING AT. You will find that services like dial-up guarantee 4800bps unless they upgraded them - which I doubt.
So before all you pseudo-experts question someone, look at your own resume. Believe me, based on some of your comments - it's weak.
Let's see how many civil and federal cases YOU have been on and how many of those you have won. How many times have you gone up against an RBOC - and have won?? Certificates? Degrees? Don't mean anything if you don't win in court.
So in your eyes if you think you are an "expert", than I must be a God. | |
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Tech Guy
@linkline.com
from:
koma3504
| ISP and the customers I work for an ISP doing tech support(real tech support Not reading off a paper) and I would say that 99% of the time when people have a 7meg connection its either there router or there computer that is the issue for slow speeds. Most people do not know how to use the bandwidth to get the maximum out of it and then they call because they are getting slow downloads from AOL. Most people don’t understand that your speed will only be as fast as the server you are connecting too. And most of the servers I have found top out at about 100-300k so no matter how fast your connection is you are not going to see a real difference. We have a full DS3 from our office to the NOC and then a fiber connect to the back bone so I can get any thing at any speed and I have yet to see anything impressive except from our local servers
And people can request the graphs and line test results so they can see what the line is running at and see that it’s the server they are connecting too not the ISP. There are so many things that can slow down a connection that it is very hard almost impossible for a tech to trouble shoot with a average Joe on his connection and figure out what is going on.
Just my 2cents | |
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bokamba
Chengdu Rocks
Premium
join:2002-04-05
Falls Church, VA
·Verizon Online DSL
| Silly idea If people really care about whether they're getting the speed they pay for, they can check it for free at places like DSLReports. No cost to the customer or the ISP. Furthermore, ISP contracts always include a provision for slower speeds than advertised, whereas a gas station is guaranteeing you bought exactly X gallons of gas. | |
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ggmorton
join:2002-07-24
Houston, TX
| It is silly - however I agree that the idea of requiring them to deliver the advertised maximum as crazy. However, there should be a published minimum level of service in the TOS. What if you are paying for 5000/384 but getting 1000/32? That is bordering on dialup. For each advertised speed that you are potentially able to get, the provider should publish a minimum level of service. That way you know what you will get with a potential for faster service. All of these best effort ideas are totally pro-business and not pro-consumer and should be changed. | |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI
| Re: It is silly - however There are some providers that do publish ranges for their offerings - unfortunately these refer to sync rates and not throughput.
In response to What if you are paying for 5000/384 but getting 1000/32?, about the only recourse that the consumer has is to tell the provider to shove their service up their backside. And in numerous cases there is no effort associated with best effort. | |
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xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA | this is a tired subject YAWN....carlini youre about 5 years too late with this brilliant observation.
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I am not herbert. | |
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| carlini7
Premium
join:2003-12-19
Dundee, IL
| Re: this is a tired subject - IT GOT YOUR ATTENTION READ A BOOK, READ TARIFFS, REPORTS, GET A CLUE
In reading many of your comments. all I can say is P.T. Barnum was right - There's a sucker born every minute.
First of all - there are something called TARIFFS that specify in VERY detailed format what you are supposed to get. You don't get a copy of the tariff and they make it difficult for you to go read one (you can at your state public utility commission office - if you live close)
TARIFFS - remember that word, as THEY set the framework and performance parameters of what the service provided to you should deliver. Go look at them. Understand them and THEN come back and talk.
In this case service doesn't rise to the users' demands - it sinks to your lack of knowledge. Great customer base - sheep.
If you were smart - you would be demanding one Gigabit per second as anything LOWER than that is NOT Broadband and is NOT globally competitive.
We are 16th in the world on Broadbamd deployment and that is one of the reasons the job base is eroding. Get a clue - or start practicing "welcome to Wal-Mart". | |
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xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Re: this is a tired subject - IT GOT YOUR ATTENTION consumers in the USA are in no position to demand anything these days. when i try to think of the words to express an image for this thought, i can only recall the line from goodfellas...ray liotta is discussing when you make paulie your business partner...it's "fuck you, pay me."
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I am not herbert. | |
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jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ | It would help if... At a minimum, Comcast should have some "local" speed test servers to help diagnose problems that are specific to the customer's connection. | |
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FiL
Premium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD
| well No matter how anyone of you corporate apologists wanna spin it, it is still false advertising...I see it being no different then "socially engineered" viruses, spy/malware and the such. Everything the "provider"(ISP or haxzor) advertises points to YOU getting X amount of speed, GUARANTEED (why teh-hell-else would you pick the provider). Now, the guarantee part comes into play when, say, Comcast bends over backwards with their multi-million dollar advert. campaign explaining how their broadband connections are 100x faster then their competitors, your ALWAYS online(an inference the customer would most likely believe is tied to "their speed" also!), just click here and your on your way to happy land. Blazin' speeds, always online, Everyone's using it! Its just better technology!
That's when the gay-pr0n sites start poppin up, then your connection goes down. (the former case for the haxzor comparison, hehe).
Allday long your blasted with these advertisements. The companies know when enough "facts" are thrown at the customer, they'll want to sign up because they feel their in "good hands" when all they did was fall for the trap. Comcast already got sued for lying about being like 45365645 times faster then Verizon DSL, but here in Silver Spring, MD, you'd be hard pressed to say that, especially at night when your connection is gahhhbage!. Crazy. Comcast adverts suck ass anyway. The speed checks should be set in place, but the ISP's are gonna get their pantys wet and cry all the way to the Viacom's, Universals, and Disney's of the world. And ain't nothin' like awakening the beast from its slumber! (but really, does it ever sleep?) | |
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| bwalker25
join:2005-12-20
Durham, NC
| Re: well there is not a single ISP that says in there commercial guaranteed speed of lets say 5Mbps. more over there is no guarante with residential circuits or business class circuits that are provided by residential ISPs. The reality of this is, comcast, verizion, time warner, ool, NEVER say there speeds are XX ALL THE TIME GUARANTEED. Sure they say 100x faster than dialup, but that 100x faster could be say measured on a 24kbps connection or 33.6kbps connection. Saying you are 3x faster than DSL could be correct also, verizion has a basic package here like 784/128, so that would be only a 3mb connection to be 3x faster than DSL. The average customer doesn't know what 5 Mbps is or 784Kbps is, they just see X times faster and think wow thats good. Lets not forget on all commericals it clearly states that "UPTO X Kb or MBps" it even says in the little itty bitty tiny white letters just before the commerical goes off, "speeds are in comparison with lowest package offered of [insert another company here], and speeds offered by [insert advertising company here] are not guaranteed in any way by [insert advertising company]"
If you really think you will get 3Mb all the time and think you have the right to a refund you need a wake up call. The fact of the matter is this, YOU and EVERYONE else that has Broadband has agreed to get "UPTO" speeds weither you know it or not, you have service and you agreed to there TOS or AUP (terms of service, or acceptable use policy), and if you DONT READ IT FIRST that is YOUR FAULT not the ISPs because the customer is ignorant and doesn't want to read before entering into a service agreement with a company. No amount of speed testing will increase your speeds, reading what you sign will inform you before you purchase as to what you are doing is smart or just plain dumb. | |
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bwalker25
join:2005-12-20
Durham, NC
| speed I'm sorry but if anyone is testing there speed here, you really need to open your eyes! I used to a LONG time ago check my speed here, but I have sinse moved up to the NDT Servers. Google for NDT Server, and they are AT LEAST 1GB/1GB backbone connected servers and can handle your speed, and that is all they are used for is speed tests. They will even tell you if something is wrong with your connection. I'm not trying to bash BBR, but lets face it, I am on 5000/384 and when I test here I get 2800/129. I test on Testmy.net and I get 5400/372, huge difference and it wont matter when I test here or over at testmy.net, or on an NDT server. NDT Servers are the MOST reliable way to test your speed. Anyone who says they are required to get XXXMbps on a residential circuit needs there head examined, you will never get guaranteed service from residential providers.
if you want reliable speed results go to testmy.net or google for NDT Server, do not test your speed here its not a correct result, anyone who has tested else where knows its true! | |
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Are You Getting the Speed You Pay For?
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Speeds advertised are all "UP TO" speeds