Apple TV, New and Improved - Upgrades resolve some of the device's original problems

Apple TV, New and Improved
Upgrades resolve some of the device's original problems
(old news - 11:28AM Saturday Jan 19 2008)
tags: Video · business · hardware · alternatives · Mac

Apple TV arrived in homes last spring to a series of mixed reviews. Although first impressions of the device were basically positive, there were several issues that people had. Some of those (like the lack of support for DivX) were resolved throughout the year. But many people were holding out for a better version of the device to come along. Changes were announced at Macworld Expo this week which should encourage those hold-outs to consider making the purchase as soon as the upgrades are implemented next week.

“In presenting the new software, Jobs showed a remarkable amount of humility about the product's first iteration, though he did suggest that Apple is not alone in having failed to solve the issue of providing digital downloads to the living room.”

One of the biggest changes is that the new Apple TV is a stand-alone device, untethered from the computer although it can still sync with it to offer various features. Better video quality, the ability to make rentals and purchases directly from the device, and a lower price were among the other announcements about the improved version of Apple TV.

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Forums » Apple TV, New and Improved


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Dogfather
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edit:
January 19th, @11:42AM

It's good but not great

I picked up a refurbed Apple TV (which Apple ended up sending a new one I guess because of low refurbed stock) simply because of the limited library available from Microsoft (over the X360).

But for the majority of people I think it's still too expensive just to rent or buy movies. People will continue sticking with Blockbuster. As popular as sites like YouTube are, they aren't "mainstream" the way Blockbuster type rental stores are mainstream. IOW, I doubt anyone is buying ATV to play YouTube on their TV set.

For ATV to take off I think they'll need some DVR functionality which to have any success would mean going to CableLabs for CableCard hardware certification. And even then you're just getting on par with hardware already in existence (HD TiVo, the motorola boxes, etc).

Then there's the issue of providers cracking down on bandwidth.
»bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/1···chnology

The movie rentals addition was a good feature, but I don't think it's enough to make AppleTV a "hit".

permalink · 2008-01-19 11:40:10 · Print ·

Mike Premium,Mod join:2000-09-17 Pittsburgh, PA clubs:	Re: It's good but not great What's so hard about 1080i? 720p = no thanks.
	permalink · 2008-01-19 11:43:00 ·

Dogfather Altitude is your friend Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA ·Cox HSI ·MegaPath ·Verizon FIOS ·Cox VOIP ·Verizon west (ex G.. ·ViaTalk ·Time Warner VOIP ·RoadRunner Cable edit: January 19th, @11:46AM	Re: It's good but not great said by Mike : What's so hard about 1080i? 720p = no thanks. Bandwidth and video horsepower required to run it. 1280x720P is only 4-5GB for a flick and easier to process than 1440 or 1920x1080i. As compression technology improves so that movie sizes can come down, I'm sure we'll see future ATV type devices doing 1080i or even 1080P.
	permalink · 2008-01-19 11:44:40 · Print ·

RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL ·AT&T Midwest	Re: It's good but not great said by Dogfather : I'm sure we'll see future ATV type devices doing 1080i or even 1080P. There already here. It's called TiVo. Apple is way late to this game. My Series 3 HD can rent movies from Amazon. What is Apple bringing to the table? -- Toolmaster of La Grange.
	permalink · 2008-01-19 11:51:43 ·

Dogfather
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edit:
January 19th, @12:05PM

Re: It's good but not great

I was unaware that Unbox movies were 1080i. I thought they were all MPEG2 SD "DVD quality" movies and there were no titles available in HD resolutions.

If Amazon doesn't offer HD titles, the only thing Apple TV is bringing that TiVo+Unbox isn't is what Microsoft already does, 720P HD rentals.

Meanwhile it's a WAY smaller step for TiVo+Amazon to offer 720P than it is for Apple to add something like CableCard support and DVR functions that TiVo already has for less than $100 more than ATV.

permalink · 2008-01-19 11:55:02 ·

RadioDoc
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Re: It's good but not great

The question was about 1080i/p equipment. TiVo can do that right now, and does. The content will come. You think Amazon doesn't have the resources to do that?

The Apple TV and XBOX are not DVRs, either. Apple needs to get on the ball and add that functionality (it's not that hard, but will require additional hardware) if they expect it to grow. Currently it's the bastard stepchild of the product line.
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permalink · 2008-01-19 13:13:49 ·

Dogfather
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edit:
January 19th, @01:29PM

Re: It's good but not great

The question wasn't about equipment, it was about why Apple is only doing 720P content (even for non-ATV devices) and so far Amazon doesn't rent HD content. Resources and will are two different things. They certainly have the resources, but with so many SD TiVo boxes in the installed base compared to HD boxes, they likely aren't compelled to expedite HD rentals.

But everything else you mention I agree with. ATV won't be successful without something substantially more than VOD rentals and xfers

permalink · 2008-01-19 13:26:02 ·

rugby
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Here's what Apple's bringing to the table:

1) your music. Got iTunes on a computer in your house? AppleTV can either sync or stream the music directly. can Tivo do that?

2) Pictures. Got iPhoto? AppleTV can sync iPhoto albums or your entire library.

3) Ease of use. No getting out the mouse to control the AppleTV. I have a windows HTPC using BeyondTV, so when I want to stream something from netflix I have to get out the mouse and hope that MS's DRM doesn't decide to lock me out (for some reason it does that with the streaming feature every now and then).

4) cross platform compatibility. Does Netflix streaming work with Macs? Does Tivo support anything advanced on Macs?

I know the AppleTV isn't fully featured and I would LOVE for Apple to buy ElGato, fix up eyeTV, and integrate the entire thing into a Mini with built-in digital tuners HOWEVER, it's not happening yet.

I use my AppleTV for hours each day for pictures, music, shows, etc. Once rentals are available on it I could even see getting a movie every now and then. I have clients who have gotten rid of their Comcast because all of the shows they want to watch and record are available through iTunes.

permalink · 2008-01-19 16:38:10 · Print ·

alchav

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Re: It's good but not great

said by rugby

:

Here's what Apple's bringing to the table:

1) your music. Got iTunes on a computer in your house? AppleTV can either sync or stream the music directly. can Tivo do that?

2) Pictures. Got iPhoto? AppleTV can sync iPhoto albums or your entire library.

3) Ease of use. No getting out the mouse to control the AppleTV. I have a windows HTPC using BeyondTV, so when I want to stream something from netflix I have to get out the mouse and hope that MS's DRM doesn't decide to lock me out (for some reason it does that with the streaming feature every now and then).

4) cross platform compatibility. Does Netflix streaming work with Macs? Does Tivo support anything advanced on Macs?

I've had a Buffalo Link Theater DVD Networked Player for years that does all this with a Remote. It streams DVD quality video at 1080i from PC or Server over Ethernet. It does not play DRM protected video well, even though it does try to work with Microsoft Windows Media Connect. This unit came out years ago, and I think it is way better than AppleTV.

permalink · 2008-01-19 19:27:55 · Print ·

Culo69

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Antioch, CA

try using Handbrake »www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/12987
HandBrake is a GPL'd multiplatform, multithreaded DVD to MPEG-4 ripper/converter. HandBrake was originally available on the BeOS, but now has been ported over to MacOS X and to GNU/Linux.

* Supported sources:
o Any DVD-like source: VIDEO_TS folder, DVD image or real DVD (even encrypted)
o PAL or NTSC
o AC-3, LPCM or MPEG audio tracks
* Outputs:
o File format: MP4, AVI or OGM
o Video: MPEG-4 or H.264 (1 or 2 passes or constant quantizer encoding)
o Audio: AAC, MP3, Vorbis or AC-3 pass-through (supports encoding of several audio tracks)
You can copy your dvd'S on put them into your itunes and watch on your apple tv

permalink · 2008-01-20 22:49:03 · Print ·

Greg_Z
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»support.apple.com/specs/appletv/···_TV.html

•H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): Up to 5 Mbps, Progressive Main Profile (CAVLC) with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps (maximum resolution: 1280 by 720 pixels at 24 fps, 960 by 540 pixels at 30 fps) in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats.
•iTunes Store purchased video: 320 by 240 pixels, 640 by 480 pixels, 720 by 480 pixels (anamorphic), or high-definition 720p.
•MPEG-4: Up to 3 Mbps, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps (maximum resolution: 720 by 432 pixels at 30 fps) in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats.

TV compatibility
•Compatible with enhanced-definition or high-definition widescreen TVs capable of 1080p/1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz, including popular models from these manufacturers: HP, Hitachi, JVC, LG, Mitsubishi, NEC, Olevia, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Polaroid, Samsung, Sony, Sharp, Toshiba, Vizio, Westinghouse.

permalink · 2008-01-19 12:25:43 · Print ·

Pictor Guy join:2004-06-21 Sammamish, WA	said by Mike : What's so hard about 1080i? 720p = no thanks. You do realize that most TVs today (even 1080p sets) can't really display more than about 800 lines of resolution well? I'm all for 1080p and even have adopted Blu-Ray early because of the higher resolution of the format but for downloadable rentals I think 720p is a good compromise for the next few years.
	permalink · 2008-01-19 13:25:01 · Print ·

AVonGauss join:2007-11-01 Boynton Beach, FL	Re: It's good but not great I think you mean 1080i... A 1080p set has a native resolution of at least 1920x1080, otherwise it's not a 1080p set...
	permalink · 2008-01-19 13:48:12 ·

Pictor Guy

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Re: It's good but not great

I mean real world (motion) 1080p.

»www.hometheatermag.com/images/ar···Vrez.jpg

Keep in mind I would still rather have a 1080p TV vs a 1080i set. but when it comes to 720p vs 1080p the issue gets a little more complicated. For source material I would still invest in 1080p if I'm owning the material (Blu-Ray for example) but for a rental it's another issue and 720p is okay for me at least until TVs get a little better.

permalink · 2008-01-19 14:00:45 · Print ·

NOCMan Verizon Fios User Premium join:2004-09-30 Flower Mound, TX	Re: It's good but not great Surprised people are not suing for false advertising then.
	permalink · 2008-01-20 09:26:37 ·

Authority
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said by AVonGauss

:

I think you mean 1080i... A 1080p set has a native resolution of at least 1920x1080, otherwise it's not a 1080p set...

1080i and 1080p have the same resolution. That's what "1080" is...the lines of vertical resolution.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080i
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permalink · 2008-01-20 06:57:05 · Print ·

Count Zero MD2Be Premium join:2007-01-18 Warner Robins, GA	Re: It's good but not great The European Broadcasting Union (EBU) recommends that its members use 720p50 with the possibility of 1080i50 on a programme-by-programme basis and 1080p50 as a future option.[2][3][4] From that article.
	permalink · 2008-01-20 09:12:38 ·

Dogfather Altitude is your friend Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA ·Cox HSI ·MegaPath ·Verizon FIOS ·Cox VOIP ·Verizon west (ex G.. ·ViaTalk ·Time Warner VOIP ·RoadRunner Cable	Some claimed 1080P sets can display static images at full rez but can't do motion at full rez. »gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-enterta···3558.php
	permalink · 2008-01-20 14:33:17 ·

Count Zero MD2Be Premium join:2007-01-18 Warner Robins, GA ·AT&T DSL Service ·Cox HSI	Until this year I don't think 1080p was 'the norm' and I'm not sure that's still the case. The 55" Sony LCD I bought last year only does 720p - I think most LCDs and plasma from the last several years (excepting of course the very high end ones) only do 720p. Looks good enough to me after 20+ years of 480i TV...
	permalink · 2008-01-19 13:55:31 ·

openbox9 join:2004-01-26 Navarre, FL	I'll take good quality 720p over 1080i any day of the week.
	permalink · 2008-01-19 15:07:55 ·

foobar9idfp09sd4 @verizon.net from: Snickerdo	said by Mike : What's so hard about 1080i? 720p = no thanks. Because it goes great with your $200 gold-plated Monster HDMI cables, right?
	permalink · 2008-01-19 19:15:35 ·

NOCMan
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Re: It's good but not great

Dont get me started. Some idiot at Best Buy tried selling me gold plated FIBER cables when I grabbed the el-cheapo ones. Said the gold helped the light move.

I install fiber all day long at work. I wanted to beat this guy down. Course I want to do that to most sales people because they usually just bug and lie to customers just to get a sale. Especially when they pull that crap on the elderly.

permalink · 2008-01-20 09:24:46 ·

NOCMan Verizon Fios User Premium join:2004-09-30 Flower Mound, TX	720p is just fine.
	permalink · 2008-01-20 09:19:01 ·

alchav

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The only thing that AppleTV does is wet people's appetite to play Movies on a Network. Apple products are all about Apple, and this is fine for The Company, but people want more flexibility to watch, store, and play on what ever they want. Just like with Music, remember when the 8 Track or Cassette were invented, you could record what ever song or mix you wanted. This is what people want now with the Movies, the ability to record and play when ever they want on what ever they want.

permalink · 2008-01-19 14:22:11 ·

Dogfather
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Re: It's good but not great

Agreed. Even without something good like DVR service, it would be a much more attractive product as a media extender that supported codecs that you currently have to add as hacks (eg DivX).

If it would for example behave as a media center extender as well as do what it currently does, they would certainly sell more. And it wouldn't be strange for them to embrace Microsoft as they bent over backward for Boot Camp.

But right now it's like an iPod that ONLY plays Apple protected tracks.

permalink · 2008-01-19 16:11:38 ·

Pictor Guy join:2004-06-21 Sammamish, WA	Re: It's good but not great said by Dogfather : But right now it's like an iPod that ONLY plays Apple protected tracks. You do realize that the iPod and AppleTV will play non-Apple protected tracks right?
	permalink · 2008-01-19 18:12:25 ·

mdrift join:2003-08-15 Spokane, WA	Re: It's good but not great said by Pictor Guy : said by Dogfather : But right now it's like an iPod that ONLY plays Apple protected tracks. You do realize that the iPod and AppleTV will play non-Apple protected tracks right? Most likely neither do. However, several hundred millions units of iPod makes it clear that most people do.
	permalink · 2008-01-19 19:26:26 · Print ·

Dogfather
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edit:
January 19th, @08:07PM

said by Pictor Guy

said by Dogfather

:

But right now it's like an iPod that ONLY plays Apple protected tracks.

You do realize that the iPod and AppleTV will play non-Apple protected tracks right?

You mean like DivX, xvid, AC3 and WMV? Bzzzt, WRONG.

It's plays they very, very few codecs that Apple wants it to play. If you want to play what YOU and everyone BUT teh Steve wants to play, as in, the most popular codecs for downloaded video you'll find, you have to start hacking and patching or reencoding.

That's fine by me, but most people looking at this box will be dissuaded from buying it because of lack of real codec support just like they would be dissuaded from an iPod that wouldn't play MP3s.

permalink · 2008-01-19 19:58:20 · Print ·

Count Zero MD2Be Premium join:2007-01-18 Warner Robins, GA ·AT&T DSL Service ·Cox HSI	The point you're missing is that DVR = free and Apple doesn't want you to record someone else's content - they want to become your cable company. Apple's long-term goal I think is to offer people all of their shows for sale ala carte (which doesn't bother me) and instead of channel surfing you'll iTunes Store surf..
	permalink · 2008-01-20 09:07:56 ·

stufried
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Open Access Please

My concern with the box is that you are locking into Apple and really only Apple. Why doesn't this have a basic browser? What if I want to play something for free from Joost, or stream a movie from Netflix.

My currently solution is that I have an old notebook in my entertainment center with an IR link to a small wireles keyboard with trackball, and IR presenters remote. I keep the keyboard hidden in the drawer most of the time.

As TV streaming is arrive, everyone wants to lock us into a walled garden. I'd love to see something that worked like the Apple TV but which is wide open.

permalink · 2008-01-19 12:32:06 · Print ·

openbox9

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Re: Open Access Please

said by stufried

:

My concern with the box is that you are locking into Apple and really only Apple. Why doesn't this have a basic browser? What if I want to play something for free from Joost, or stream a movie from Netflix.

That doesn't help Apple's iTS generate revenue. Granted a lot of people claim Apple is a company providing hardware, but I believe it's clear that they now want hardware on content distribution. Apple currently isn't motivated to provide a generic system capable of doing what a lot of techie consumers want.

permalink · 2008-01-19 15:11:03 · Print ·

jjeffeory join:2002-12-04 USA	said by stufried : As TV streaming is arrive, everyone wants to lock us into a walled garden. I'd love to see something that worked like the Apple TV but which is wide open. And the ISPs want to go the bill-by-the-byte model which would kill all streaming... This is all just getting crazy!
	permalink · 2008-01-19 19:39:56 ·

GoodyearMark
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ugh

" As popular as sites like YouTube are, they aren't "mainstream" the way Blockbuster type rental stores are mainstream."

Oh my God. YouTube does NOT show movies. It shows crappy quality home videos of the dumbest things imaginable generally speaking. That is when it's not being loaded up with every R&B video out there from people who don't realize that BET already exists.

If you want a library, consider Netflix, or dare I say, buy some DVDs.

$229 just to buy access to content? I'll stick with Netflix where I don't have to buy hardware. Most people already have cable in their house, why not just use pay per view?
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permalink · 2008-01-19 12:39:10 · Print ·

Dogfather
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edit:
January 19th, @12:57PM

Re: ugh

I'm not going to spend $10-$20 for a SD DVD or $20-$30 for a BRD or HD-DVD disc I'll watch once.

I want an HD VOD catalog and Time Warner's is very limited as is Microsoft's. If you are an E* subscriber, VOD of any type is non-existent. That's why I opted for one but as I mention in my post, I will be one of a few for the reasons I mentioned.

I never said or meant YouTube rents big-screen studio movies like Blockbuster, I said it isn't mainstream like Blockbuster. No one is buying an AppleTV for YouTube because few people give a crap about YouTube. The only alternatives, I already have which are cable VOD and Microsoft X360 rentals both have very limited libraries, especially in HD.

I would consider Netflix if they didn't throttle rentals while having an on-demand library that looks like the playlist from a UHF channel at 1AM. I don't want to wait and can't predict what I'll feel like watching 4 days from today. The way I watch movies is I get a hair in my ass to watch a particular type of movie (Sci-Fi, Horror, comedy etc) and want to just watch it right then. For that AppleTV is a good choice and for me worth the $199 refurbished.

permalink · 2008-01-19 12:53:54 · Print ·

cubs4eva Premium join:2004-04-29 Aurora, IL	Re: ugh I agree....the main selling point for the Apple right now is the size of the library of movies you will be able to rent. I like the 360 rentals, there just aren't enough of them.
	permalink · 2008-01-19 13:23:04 ·

odreian615 join:2006-01-18 Chicago, IL	Old saying You could put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig
	permalink · 2008-01-19 13:35:09 ·

Count Zero MD2Be Premium join:2007-01-18 Warner Robins, GA	Re: Old saying Except in Arkansas and Alabama
	permalink · 2008-01-19 13:58:24 ·

Titus Pullo I came, I saw, I slept join:2004-06-26	Re: Old saying Relative [LY] speaking, of course -- If sht could sht it would smell like American politics
	permalink · 2008-01-19 15:01:17 ·

plattypus1 join:2005-04-08 Riverside, CA	Hehehe... Netflix + DVD burner = 'nuff said.
	permalink · 2008-01-19 16:11:15 ·

mac_attack

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Apple TV...it's about Movies, Movies, Movies

About 7 years ago I bought a DVD player and started renting DVDs at my corner video store. I had rented VHS tapes before this, but the quality and selection were poor. DVD titles (and extras) ramped up quickly and I found myself watching less and less cable TV. Why watch crappy sitcoms or game shows when you can watch $25M feature films? When I moved to a new home 4 years ago I ditched cable TV. By then I had a good sized library of DVDs and I rented from Netflix. Then the Apple Store started offering movies and TV shows. I bought a Mac Mini and attached it to my home video display. The videos were only VHS quality, but cheap and easy to acquire (vs. driving to the video store). There were no commercials or on-screen "branding" in the TV shows. I could watch a half hour show in 20 minutes and catch up on a a month's episodes in one evening. I think Apple TV (and similar products) are the beginning of the end of broadcast TV. There's really no reason for a TiVo-like device to time-shift. You're still capturing commercials and having to put up with on-screen branding and promos. It would be better to buy the content directly from the provider. Also, many TV networks edit content and time compress it (speed it up) to cram more commercials in. What's missing from a product like Apple TV is a DVD/Blu-Ray player (for the foreseeable future, HiDef content will take too long to downolad) and a means of viewing live HD content, like sports. Once they nail that, you won't need cable TV. There's a certain irony this comes at a time when we're switching to HD broadcasting in 2009. "Broadcasting" is obsolete. Today's busy consumers want video on demand.

permalink · 2008-01-19 18:13:15 · Print ·

Bill Pace @verizon.net	iTunes Rentals and the Analog Hole I read this and said cool! »www.reelsmart.com/2008/01/19/itu···og-hole/ By the way Apple's rentals are pretty nice already and they did not launch the HD ones yet.
	permalink · 2008-01-19 21:54:11 ·

lrtc join:2004-06-05 Toronto	I don't know Check out Nito TV for ATV. It will change your mind.
	permalink · 2008-01-19 22:20:38 ·

afddsf @comcast.net	Was thinking about apple tv.... I was thinking about getting one of these, been waiting for them to have enough movies to rent before I made the move, and its getting there. I really wish they had a dvd burner on it so I could record tv shows from it, that would be a key thing that would make me a buyer since I could replace my DVR with apple tv.
	permalink · 2008-01-19 23:28:05 ·

ghenjei

join:2000-12-19
Grand Prairie, TX

Apple TV Rocks

Netflix / Your Own DVD Library
Handbrake
iTunes
802.11 N
1TB USB Hard Drive
Apple TV (40gig fine- just stream everything)

With these tools in hand, AppleTV is actually an excellent DVD Jukebox. Of Course, the Netflix account is to get DVD copies of what you already own on VHS.

True, it is a little expensive (they are now $175 on ebay, incl shipping), but the ease of use is key here.

permalink · 2008-01-21 10:11:25 ·

sanfranson
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Wait until its really functional

I bought the Apple Space Station wireless modem when it first came out in '97. I had to wait about three months until the first units arrived from Taiwan. But it was a year before the thing actually worked because it required a static connection which Apple had neglected to mention. Subsequently, I received a payment from Apple in settlement of a class action on this very point.

I will wait a few years before I consider this particular Apple product. By that time, the numerous limitations that have been listed by previous posters will be worked out or it will be gone.
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Cordially, SANFRANSON

permalink · 2008-03-15 14:49:19 · Print ·

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ugh

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Old saying

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Hehehe...

Apple TV...it's about Movies, Movies, Movies

iTunes Rentals and the Analog Hole

I don't know

Was thinking about apple tv....

Apple TV Rocks

Wait until its really functional