 
ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | Yeah Sure Heh-heh -- wait til the CALEA folks come-a-knocking | |
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dardin
join:2002-11-19
Tucson, AZ
edit:
March 18th, @11:15AM
| ummmmmm............ How smart is this? Not smart at all. Just think of all the idiots who will use this service and get infected with viruses and the company cannot even contact their customers to inform them they are infected because they don't know which customers are infected. Not to mention if someone is hacking or doing other illegal things. If I was a spammer I'd be ordering this service today. You can spam and not even your ISP can identify it's coming from you.
This was created by a marketing department and I bet the network admins of this company are in a uproar over this.
Stupidest idea I have ever read. I'll be sure to blacklist this company from my mail servers. | |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
Host:
IPv6
Business Connectiv..
Home/Office setup ..
Console/Handheld g..
Console Tech
| Re: ummmmmm............ I don't understand what you mean at all.
quote:
Just think of all the idiots who will use this service and get infected with viruses and the company cannot even contact their customers to inform them they are infected because they don't know which customers are infected.
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| | dardin
join:2002-11-19
Tucson, AZ
edit:
March 18th, @11:23AM
| Re: ummmmmm............ Basically they have no way to track their own abuse issues. They will have customers infected with viruses or hacked and they will have no way to know what customer it is.
This ISP will be like most of China. | |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY | Re: ummmmmm............ no ISPs act on that information anyway.
Contact a local ISP and tell them one of their subscribers is doing port scans, they don't do anything about it. So no loss. | |
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gnx87
Premium
join:2001-02-20
Oakdale, PA
| said by justin  :
no ISPs act on that information anyway.
Contact a local ISP and tell them one of their subscribers is doing port scans, they don't do anything about it. So no loss.
Umm my ISP does. I made the stupid decision to port scan UUnet and my ISP called 24hrs later saying UUnet contacted them saying i was scanning such and such ports on their network why was i doing that. I played it off like a virus must have been doing it.
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MY rig :Boistar M7NCD Nforce2 moboAMD XP 2500+ Barton oc'ed to 3200+Maxtor 160GB 7200 8MBWD 80GB 7200 8MBGeForce 4 MX440512MB Geil PC3200 DDR | |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
West Chester, PA
| Re: ummmmmm............ Thing is UUnet is not much of a "residential" isp...UUnet provides mainly to large businesses and is also a backbone provider.
A call from a backbone provider to your isp is way way different then just another isp or customer calling
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Forum Posts:4100 | |
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dslextreme
Premium,VIP
join:2001-02-23
Canoga Park, CA
| said by justin :
no ISPs act on that information anyway.
Contact a local ISP and tell them one of their subscribers is doing port scans, they don't do anything about it. So no loss.
No true Justin. We take illicit port scanning activities very seriously. While I can not divulge our exact policy, I can assure you that lots of people have been booted off our network for port scanning activities.
Ari
CEO
DSL Extreme | |
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| | | bored_in_nh
join:2003-01-04
Stamping Ground, KY | Please stop. You're confusing me. The ISP will be mountainous, dry, and rural?
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amazing stuff, this internet | |
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gamecock
join:2002-01-15
Panama City Beach, FL
| said by dardin :
How smart is this?
This is very smart for a company wanting to attract a lot of users. This is a great service for file sharers and privacy freaks.
I'm too far from the Co to get DSL. If I could get it, I would sign up immediately. | |
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| Megladon13
join:2003-09-05
Minneapolis, MN | 2 or 3 terroristic threats to anyone @ whitehouse.gov from users of this service should shut it down rather quick. | |
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SuperJudge
Magus
Premium
join:2002-11-14
Albany, GA
clubs: | Re: ummmmmm............ I wonder how many people go through data containing key words on Echelon. | |
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SuperJudge
Magus
Premium
join:2002-11-14
Albany, GA
clubs: | Re: ummmmmm............ Dag, IR forked! Oh know!!1 | |
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jdmurray
Premium
join:2001-03-02
Huntington Beach, CA
clubs:
| This service sounds like a Honey Pot to attract and monitor Internet users who (at least) believe that they are doing something they shouldn't and wish to avoid detection.
ROUND 'EM ALL UP ON THE SAME CORRAL, BRAND 'EM, and KEEP AN EYE ON 'EM!! THAT'S WHAT I SAY!! YEEEEE-HAAAA!!!
[Note: This is not an endorsement for anonymous DSL services by the Howard Dean for President campaign.] | |
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Varangian
join:2002-12-08
Collinsville, IL |  Re: ummmmmm............
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| | | | | jgmcbride
join:2001-01-13
Woodside, NY | Re: ummmmmm............ I agree. Joe and the gang are pretty good. They provide accomodations for NYCWireless meetings too. | |
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| MazakGuy7
join:2004-03-05
Hillsdale, MI
clubs:
| Who cares what the networks admins think. It's the customers who pay for the service that matter. If they don't like it that can quit. If they try to screw it up, I say fire them, and give them bad references, so they can't get another tech job. I say it's time for the PAYING customers to get what they want for a change, instead of what some nerdy tech head wants to give them.
my .02 | |
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micl
Visit Lovely Downtown Port Starboard
Premium
join:2001-10-25
Silver Spring, MD
| This is how all ISPs should act This is how the phone company acts... as a common carrier. Once ISPs start meddling in content, they are on a slippery slope when it comes to having to enforce content restrictions of any sort.
Note that doing business this way does not put them above the law... it just takes them out of the police business. If DOJ or other police authority has a proper subpoena then they would have to comply, but that would leave the enforcement to those authorities and not the ISP.
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If I don't see you in the future, I'll see you in the pasture | |
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micl
Visit Lovely Downtown Port Starboard
Premium
join:2001-10-25
Silver Spring, MD
| Re: This is how all ISPs should act said by BadHat :
I wonder about their ability to trace, if it is truly anonymous.
From the description, it sounds like they could trace on a real time basis perhaps since the ISP isn't saving the logs... but might be required to on a case by case basis if required under a subpeona.
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If I don't see you in the future, I'll see you in the pasture | |
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Mellow
Premium
join:2001-11-16
Salisbury, MD
edit:
March 18th, @11:26AM
| not to cheap $65/month for 1.5/128 . Not the cheapest provider on the block. Seems odd you would pay to have a static ip then not have the static ip and pay more to have the anondsl. Whatever floats your boat I guess. Not to mention the pricey setup fee. | |
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stateq2
J Dilla
Premium
join:2003-03-27
Jackson, MS
| Re: not to cheap said by Mellow :
$65/month for 1.5/128 . Not the cheapest provider on the block. Seems odd you would pay to have a static ip then not have the static ip and pay more to have the anondsl. Whatever floats your boat I guess. Not to mention the pricey setup fee.
if the service is as claimed, it's worth every penny
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My Webpage | Linux | Nope, we don't sell that here. | policy | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | Total horse crap There is no privacy on the Net. What one programmer compiles
another de-compiles; The Gospel of St. Bill chapter 3 ver 13
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"Remember when hacking a loogy it comes not so much from the lungs but from the soul." | |
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SuperJudge
Magus
Premium
join:2002-11-14
Albany, GA
clubs: | Re: Total horse crap It's a viscious cycle, encryption - decryption. | |
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djtim21
It's all good
Premium
join:2003-12-22
Buffalo Grove, IL
clubs:
| Easy to Block They have to register the block of Public IP addresses, so it would be as easy to block all their traffic or even their domain in general. I would think that if you go to their service, you may be doing your self a dis-service due to just that issue. Honestly - if they get this up and running, I will block every public IP they have so as to insure that I won't have issues with them in the future :P | |
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| dardin
join:2002-11-19
Tucson, AZ | Re: Easy to Block Amen to that. I'm sure half the net will black list them in no time, as they become a spammer/virus haven. | |
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biteman
join:2001-02-02
Grand Rapids, MI | What an idiot CAN WE SAY JAIL!!!! or at least sued out of existence. | |
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apilosov
join:2002-12-27
Forest Hills, NY
| DMCA + CALEA + billing, oh my a) If they don't track who is doing what, how do they know which circuit to turn down when you didn't pay?
b) First CALEA request (to which bway could not respond) and they will be hit with 100k$+ fine for non-compliance
c) First DMCA takedown notice (which they could not comply with) and they will immediately lose safe-harbor protections and become liable for any infringement their user commits.
d) First spammer that they could not track down and turn off and entire bway will be listed on every single blacklist.
In all, seems like a great way for bway to get in trouble. | |
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| russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| On DMCA, you are incorrect -- a 512(a) carrier is not required to do anything in response to takedown requests. As long as they aren't hosting, they're fine
On billing, that's easy -- they can turn the circuit off at the DSLAM. They don't need to track anything more, assuming a flat-rate service.
On CALEA, you also appear to be incorrect. Given a court order, they would be required to intercept a subscriber's communications. But before then, they need retain no information.
On SPAM -- yeah, you'll see everything in there blacklisted. So what, if your interest is P2P? | |
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| | apilosov
join:2002-12-27
Forest Hills, NY
| Re: DMCA + CALEA + billing, oh my You are wrong.
Carrier *must* comply with take-down request or become liable for contributory infringement. I know, I'm a carrier.
Billing - ok, granted.
CALEA - incorrect, you can get a court order for communications that happened *prior* to the said order. Friends in the telco world get them all the time. | |
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| | | russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| Re: DMCA + CALEA + billing, oh my Check the DMCA again, and also the Verizon decision. The takedown request need only be followed by providers who HOST the allegedly infringing material, CACHE the allegedly infringing material, or provide a search engine which returns a link to the infringing material. Carriers who merely provide a conduit do not have to comply with takedown orders.
Yes, you can get a court order to provide communications which happened prior to the order. But you're not required to have it, only to provide it if you do have it -- for instance cryptome.org received such a subpoena, and responded by indicating they had no such data, and they were not sanctioned for it.
At least, I don't see anything in CALEA which requires carriers to pre-emptively log anything. Perhaps you could point it out. CALEA's pretty dense legislation, much harder to follow than the DMCA. | |
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ArgyleDSL
Premium
join:2002-07-04
Flushing, NY
| Bway.net is good ISP I had them as dialup provider. They have excellent customer service and the staff is a great bunch of folks. It doesn't surprise me that they are starting this service.
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My heart is old, it holds my memories, my body burns a gemlike flame. Somewhere between the soul and soft machine, is where I find myself again | |
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B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Incredibly Simple
The only "feature" you're paying for is that BWay doesn't keep logs. That's IT.
There's no reason they couldn't offer this on ALL their accounts. There's no reason it couldn't apply to PPPoE or static IP addressing or anything else.
There's no reason it couldn't be their default, and only, service.
And there's certainly no reason to charge extra for it -- it saves them CPU cycles and disk space not to log everything.
There's no reason this should NOT be the default offering of all ISP's. Logs are helpful for technical diagnostics and for law enforcement, but I don't think they are necessary.
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
West Chester, PA
| Re: Incredibly Simple said by B :
The only "feature" you're paying for is that BWay doesn't keep logs. That's IT.
There's no reason they couldn't offer this on ALL their accounts. There's no reason it couldn't apply to PPPoE or static IP addressing or anything else.
There's no reason it couldn't be their default, and only, service.
And there's certainly no reason to charge extra for it -- it saves them CPU cycles and disk space not to log everything.
There's no reason this should NOT be the default offering of all ISP's. Logs are helpful for technical diagnostics and for law enforcement, but I don't think they are necessary.
-- B
Well we do not know this. They could be using a form of NAT so that all the users basically share one ip or a small block of IP's etc.
I guarantee the service is more then them just not keeping logs or else they would just offer it to all their accounts.
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Forum Posts:4100 | |
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| | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: Incredibly Simple
You've missed my point -- which is that anything but log flushing is an IRRELEVANT, extraneous feature if the goal is privacy.
It doesn't MATTER if your IP address is NATted, or dynamic, or static, or IPv6. If there's no log of connections, your transactions aren't tracked!
Of course, if your communication is being ACTIVELY monitored, by the ISP or the government or anyone else, then it's STILL irrelevant as to what kind of IP address you have!
So I'm saying that, regardless of how convoluted BWay's approach may be, it doesn't NEED to be. Anything else is just marketing.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
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| lilskook
join:2002-07-13
Seagoville, TX
| B,
Found this at techdirt.com:
Is Anonymous DSL A Good Idea?
Contributed by Mike on Thursday, March 18th, 2004 @ 09:27AM
from the depends-on-how-you-look-at-it dept.
Someone who prefers to remain anonymous (ironically enough) has submitted this story from Broadband Reports about Bway's decision to offer anonymous DSL. The idea is that they're using a rotating pool of dynamic addresses, and not keeping any logs about who has what IP address at any particular time. This way, there's no way to trace back a single IP address to any particular user. Of course, as with anything, this could be abused. They're pitching it so that people can file share anonymously - but at the same time they can also spam anonymously. To be honest, this seems a lot more like a gimmick (and a fairly expensive one, at that) then a serious attempt at anonymity. Anyway, judging from the way politicians have been responding to anonymity lately, don't be surprised if some sort of law gets passed banning this sort of anonymous broadband.
peace, lilskook | |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs: | Again... Line tapping supercedes this regaurdless of the amount of digital loops they put in it from end-user to
destination(s)... | |
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aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA | Re: Again... Many organizations (i.e. RIAA, MPAA) that can be interested in someone's identity do not have line tapping power. | |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
| Re: Again... Maybe Not yet, but you'd be surprised to know that the MPAA/RIAA and the FCC are closer to each other than you think. If they ever did cooperate, you wouldn't know since gag orders could be issued by agents (not with the riaa/mpaa, but the FBI) on the field without a judge to intervene. I understand that that doesn't guarantee their silence, but does put a cramp on their style for sure.
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K8T Neo - 2GB DCDDR400 - AXP 64 3400+ - 3DLabs WC4 7210 - CL Audigy 2 PP - WD SATA150 36GB + Hitachi GST 250GB - Plextor PX708A + Sony CRX300A - Dual 535 Watt PSU's, Full Tower El Cheapo Case W/ Sound Padding & Thermal vents. | |
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ZOverLord
Premium
join:2003-10-20
Minneapolis, MN
edit:
March 21st, @09:42PM
|  It's Just a Smoke and Mirrors Publicity STUNT!
Dear Valued Customer,
Due to unforeseen circumstances we are no longer able to offer our Anonymous DSL FEATURE, however we can continue your current service for $$.$$ per month.
LMAO
What a BRILLIANT marketing campaign. Because ANYONE who does NOT have mad cows disease knows that this so called OFFERING is short lived in our wonderful regulated and court based system.
So what does one do after the SWITCH to their DSL service, out of PROTEST after they can't offer it anymore, change ISP's, LOL, I think NOT 
As George Carlin once said about how silly people can be when they purchase things, I wonder if they offer a FREE Cheese straightener at signup? I could use one in the kitchen, the cheese is looking a little non symmetrical these days,lol
I am sure the same people that purchased the Family Survival Kits for Y2K are DYING to get in on this DEAL
Interestingly ENOUGH, I think I would buy their STOCK and as a HEDGE get in on the first Class Action lawsuit just in case they end up going BK. | |
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fritz5150
join:2004-03-25
Sterling, CO
|  Here's a second!
They don't have any details on their webpage yet, but I have inside information that they are getting everything moving for the activation of this service within 15 days. | |
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Cynical591
@bellsouth.net | eh? said by ExtremeDsl:
I can assure you that lots of people have been booted off our network for port scanning activities.
Umm wtf? Port scanning is legal... | |
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deadkarma
@optonline.net
| This is no publicity stunt I used to work as an admin over there at bway.net, and I can assure you they are truly some good people. Just like their site says, they are pro-privacy, anti censorship and pro open source. They are not a publicly traded company, so there are no investor interests to worry about. They are a small company ( about twelve employees or so) still treading water and competing with big ISPs by doing a damn fine job and by putting people first. Don't take my word for it, go visit their office in NY.
I remember once we invited all of our customers (yes every one) to a customer appreciation party at our office. It was really interesting to actually meet our customers face to face. What other ISP does this?
A publicty *stunt*? I don't think so. They are a business, and of course they need money to stay around, but instead of screwing over their customers or trying to legislate their ability to screw over customers, they actually are trying to do something good to generate revenue. | |
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