site Search:


 
   
story category
All Across North America: Usage Meters Still Don't Work
U.S., Canadian Regulators Fall Asleep at the Switch
With ISPs so relentlessly eager to move from flat rate to usage-based billing, you would think that they would have made sure they had the technical skills to do so first. Again and again however we've noted how U.S. and Canadian ISPs that implement usage meters simply aren't tracking and billing for usage accurately. In the States AT&T has stumbled through metered billing implementation, as customers continue to note AT&T's meters don't match customer router totals.

Click for full size
In Canada, customers of Canadian cable company Cogeco consistently complain of accuracy issues that appear to have persisted for more than a year, while Cogeco has busily started handing out bills for thousands of dollars in overages. Users are forced to install third party router firmware if they want an accurate picture of their usage, but even with evidence of problems ISPs aren't heeding customer complaints.

Bell customers in our forums continue to complain about meter accuracy, and in one instance a nuclear engineer struggles with overage billing confusion -- making you wonder how normal users fare. Rogers users in our forums also continue to complain about meter accuracy, noticing that some months the meters just stop working entirely:

Just got off the phone with their CS, they are having network-wide problems with their "monitoring" tool on MyRogers. (mine hasn't updated my usage since last week). He told me to continue using my internet as usual, and when they finally fix it (expected by end of this week), and if my usage is above my limit, that they will credit me any overage charges since I was not able to monitor it! He even told me: "enjoy it, go crazy and download stuff!"

Says another user:

The same thing happened to me a few months ago. I got the 75% notice, stopped using almost all internet, next day got the 100% notice anyways, then got overage charges. God damnit. Then I upgraded my internet package. You can get 20GB extra for $5 a month if you don't want to actually upgrade to the next package (at least, when I sign in online with my Express internet it gives me that option for purchasing more data).

I harp on this a lot but it bears repeating: not only are these limits unnecessary and anti-competitive, nobody, anywhere, at any level of U.S. or Canadian government is working to ensure that ISPs are metering usage accurately. ISPs for years insisted that they should be able to bill broadband like a utility, yet fought tooth and nail when it came to having their meters regulated like a utility. While an entirely new system of unreliable usage-based billing spreads across North America generating millions in new revenue, no regulator, anywhere, has deemed double-checking meter accuracy worthy of their time.

view: topics flat text 
Post a:
page: 1 · 2
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

why Metered BB will fail

at least under current business models is that its metering is not regulated as of yet. Other utilities(and BB providers do like to call internet a utility) have their meters highly regulated. And really anything sold per unit is regulated by the state. a gas pump cant sell me two gallons and pump only one. the scale at the supermarket cant charge for 2lbs of fruit when I only had one pound. the merchants get fined if their gauges are inaccurate like that.

However I bet UBB will never have to face the weights and measures department due to lobby power.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T U-Verse
·VOIPo
·PHONE POWER

Re: why Metered BB will fail

Big oil has lobby power too, but there are checks in place so they (hopefully) aren't short changing people at the pump. If enough people complain about inaccurate billing, I can't see the government looking the other way for too long.

I've been saying all along, the best way to fight against metered billing is to call for new regulations and government oversight. It's a perfectly reasonable request, and it's something these companies will really hate.
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.
Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06

Re: why Metered BB will fail

I think those companies don't mind the state calibrating their meters for free. They don't intentionally overcharge because it would eventually get them in trouble anyway, but unnoticed undercharging could really hurt them because their product actually costs them $/unit.
Warez_Zealot
Rural land of the rising sun

join:2006-04-19
japan

1 edit

Re: why Metered BB will fail

said by Wilsdom:

I think those companies don't mind the state calibrating their meters for free. They don't intentionally overcharge because it would eventually get them in trouble anyway, but unnoticed undercharging could really hurt them because their product actually costs them $/unit.

Sorry to say.. But that's a great way to put it if you don't know what you're talking about..

Rogers is actually are coming out with a propaganda "report" that contradicts the OECD report.. haha

»business.financialpost.com/2012/···Comments

--
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it."-Malcolm X


DoubleM

@streamtheworld.com

Re: why Metered BB will fail

So the LYA 'report' defines broadband as 128kbps or greater
the CRTC defines 128kbps as 'high speed' and broadband as 1.5mbps
oh and the OCED report defines broadband as 256kbps
OCED report also takes into account modem rental fees plus they don't include bundle prices ('preselection')

The LYA report is peppered with praise for Rogers as well as excuses why its lagging in some respects.
It boggles my mind how they came up with this average price, the cheapest solution Rogers offers is higher than the average, meanwhile the LYA praises Rogers as being the largest ISP in the country. So largest ISP + $35 minimum plan = $33 average
JonyBelGeul

join:2008-07-31
That's true. However, the product they pay for is speed. The technical term is bandwidth. Not to be confused with data. Whether there's data going through this bandwidth is irrelevant, the bandwidth costs them the same either way.

OneEye

join:2006-04-15
Peachtree City, GA
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
It's one thing to read all the DSLReport members pis%%%g and moaning about ISP providers (AT&T especially) implementing CAPS, but we're all standing on the bow of a sailboat pis%%%g into the wind (and getting wet in the process).

This forum is a relief valve here in our own little corner of the internet where all the malcontents can gather while the rest of the world goes its own way not caring that they are being shafted by CAPS right along with all internet users.

Someone with teeth has got to drag all the none ISP content providers (Netflix, Amazon, etc) into speaking with one voice against the ISPs. Forget Hulu Plus because of their Network (Comcast) ownership.

In my opinion, that one voice should be led by the webmasters at DSLReports. Get these businesses together and start hammering on the government and press to take up this issue.

Ask the consumer router industry why they won't provide Download Usage Counters in their wireless/4 port routers (specially Cisco/Linksys) so consumers can question the Empires metering?

Is AT&T and Cogeco's influence so great that consumers will always be mashed beneath their feet like dogs&%t?
krazyfiend

join:2011-02-15

Re: why Metered BB will fail

said by OneEye:

Ask the consumer router industry why they won't provide Download Usage Counters in their wireless/4 port routers (specially Cisco/Linksys) so consumers can question the Empires metering?

Agreed. This is one reason why I insist on purchasing routers that can be flashed w DD-wrt. Now I can go back months at a time and look at monthly usage.

TBH, from my experience, Comcast is pretty spot on w/ their meter, at least when it's apparent or after your roll & re-provision to get it back)
NWOhio

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
Broadband providers do NOT call themselves utilties. They know if they do they can get regulated and thus adding extra taxes and fees to the bottom line and being required to do more. It's stupid for anyone to ask for regulation if you own the company.

The fact is nobody in the United States can just regulate the HSI providers without a problem. The FCC has no power over the Internet and they know it. Congress would have to give them that power to do just that. But then you have to decide what you're going to call it. Cable Internet is known as an Information Service. and DSL was/is a telecommunications service. So how are you going to regulate the two of them? It becomes a problem.

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T U-Verse
·VOIPo
·PHONE POWER

Re: why Metered BB will fail

said by NWOhio:

The fact is nobody in the United States can just regulate the HSI providers without a problem.

Exactly.

Metered billing may very well create "a problem". There's a lot of potential for ISPs to charge people for goods not delivered, without any sort of check or balance to ensure accuracy.
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.

BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
said by NWOhio:

Broadband providers do NOT call themselves utilties

Yet when they justify why they should be able to go to a metered billing they ALWAYS bring up utilitites as an example.

thisIsJunk

@codamusic.com

unsolicited traffic?

Does unsolicited inbound traffic get metered and count against caps? What if someone targeted you with something like a DDOS would they be able to use up your allotted bandwidth? What about protocol overhead?

Most people dislike the mail service analogy, but seems this is like the post office charging recipients a fee instead of the sender and then we get a huge bill for all the junk mail and ads that I never wanted anyway.
Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

Re: unsolicited traffic?

I think they bill for overhead and maybe rounding as well.

But on the U-Verse side I think they are having a hardtime not counting the video data.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
said by thisIsJunk :

Does unsolicited inbound traffic get metered and count against caps? What if someone targeted you with something like a DDOS would they be able to use up your allotted bandwidth? What about protocol overhead?

Yes to all, and more. Unwanted ads. Unwanted malware. Massive patches to software that was defective and buggy. Everything, all traffic, whether you want it or not, or solicit it or not, will be on your dime. You'll pay for everything.

However, this will also make it very easy to prove damages. Since you pay for the unwanted traffic, you have an open and shut case in court about incurring losses. It's quite feasible you could sue apps makers, advertisers, even ISP's because of the "damages" you incur from unwanted traffic.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

fatness
subtle
Janitor
join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:13
Host:
Bright House Netwo..
Earthlink DSL
TekSavvy
Forum Feature Requ..
Need Site Help

usage meters aren't intended to work

Usage meters are not intended to be accurate measures of actual, you know, internet usage. They're a PR construct to allow increased billing. Like "extra whiteners" in laundry detergent.
--
hey Dale

OneEye

join:2006-04-15
Peachtree City, GA
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service

Need Information

Why is it that Cisco/Linksys will not add download usage meters to their consumer wireless/4 port routers?

Is their tie so strong with AT&T providing backbone routers with back doors to security agencies that consumers will never have built-in usage meters?

HaloFans

join:2006-12-18

Re: Need Information

There are unofficial methods by using third party firmware, particular the one called Tomato (aka TomatoUSB).

OneEye

join:2006-04-15
Peachtree City, GA
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: Need Information

I know about Tomato but, like a lot of users, I've had to upgrade my wireless routers every two years or less to have access to new features. Having other than official software on the router voids the warranty.

Why can't Cisco/Linksys give us download counters with their wireless routers?

OneEye

join:2006-04-15
Peachtree City, GA
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: Need Information

Why doesn't DSLReports ask Cisco/Linksys directly and publish their response on this forum.

Maybe, Cisco/Linksys will admit that counters can't work and then we, the public, will have ammunition to use against AT&T when they start billing users for exceeding CAPS.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T DSL Service
·row44

Re: Need Information

Linksys and Cisco has no interest of providing extra value to their low end routers which will hurt sales of their enterprise equipment.

Counters can be 100% accurate if you have a fast enough processor.
To screen packets to ignore all overhead traffic like SNMP, other protocols takes alot of processing power. It takes processing power to add +1 to a counter for every bit passed through.

If their equipment does not have fast enough processors to forward packets, screen them for overhead traffic, and to add to a counter at the same time for every user connected to that equipment then it cannot be accurate.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
Iowa
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Clearwire
·AT&T Wireless Br..
·Comcast
·AT&T DSL Service
·RCN CABLE

Re: Need Information

customer owned equipment are primarly more unmanaged, more power oriented (video streaming, gaming, etc). If you wanna truly managed equipment you gotta pay more for it and learn more how to customize to your needs. You wanna fancy graphs, etc? You need to set up a monitoring server, cron jobs and mrtg, learn script languages, etc...

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T DSL Service
·row44

Re: Need Information

said by chgo_man99:

customer owned equipment are primarly more unmanaged, more power oriented (video streaming, gaming, etc). If you wanna truly managed equipment you gotta pay more for it and learn more how to customize to your needs. You wanna fancy graphs, etc? You need to set up a monitoring server, cron jobs and mrtg, learn script languages, etc...

Not true.
Companies like dd-wrt make money offering all the best features on lower powered equipment.
Cisco will not release firmware on their low end equipment that does everything their high end equipment does. They are trying to protect their high end products.

Cisco wants you to pay more for fully manned equipment, but with dd-wrt, tomoto, smoothwall, monowall, or your own programed software definately competes with their high end software.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
Iowa
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Clearwire
·AT&T Wireless Br..
·Comcast
·AT&T DSL Service
·RCN CABLE

Re: Need Information

You're right but you're then modifying or "hacking" your existing equipment to make get a free upgrade. You're not getting this off-shelf as a standard for reasons like ones you mentioned in your last post.

The different firmware you install is not tested by cisco (currently employed) or in cooperation with them, just by the makers. So what you get is not so "clean" and stable firmware that one times works and one time it doesn't. Most of the time does. But often there are some bugs and stable releases are just too old which is true for dd-wrt. Other alternatives like tomato requires little more RAM.
So if you got WRT54G from 2008 with only 8Mb memory instead 16, you can't put just any open source firmware and with dd-wrt you are restricted to a mini cut version.

Btw cisco makes "home office" routers which are little more advanced and step ahead of most home routers that come with the power of IOS. You can make configurations on them using either CLI or GUI. They have useful VPN features.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T DSL Service
·row44

Re: Need Information

Buffalo manufactures home routers and use dd-wrt on their routers straight from the factory because they have no high end products to protect.

For companies like cisco, netgear you dont need to hack your router or upgrade it, you just load 3rd party firmware that will use the available hardware/processing power for more features or you can just buy buffalo and get dd-wrt straight from the factory installed on a router.
dd-wrt is not a hack
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.

IowaCowboy
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Indian Orchard, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
·AT&T Wireless Br..
·Verizon Wireless..

Weights and Measures

A few years ago, I had issues with an electric meter (the dial readings and AMR chip were off by a few thousand kWh). I called the utility and got the runaround. Only after I called the state DPU they replaced the faulty meter. The old meter was analog with a remote reading chip. The new meter is digital and the meter and AMR chip are integrated.

In Massachusetts, any meter used for billing is inspected by the weights and measures inspector for the city or town where the device is located. Oil trucks, gas pumps, and even taxi meters are all inspected.
--
All of my CPE (including my EMTA) is customer owned. The only Comcast owned equipment in my house is the CableCards in the two TiVO boxes I own.

CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12

What does it matter?

quote:
and in one instance a nuclear engineer struggles with overage billing confusion -- making you wonder how normal users fare.
How is a Nuclear Engineer any different then any other regular user? Do they use the internet differently then I do?
--
CableTechs.org/"Horrible People with Integrity"
ilianame

join:2002-06-05
Burnaby, BC
kudos:1

Re: What does it matter?

No the article meant that Nuclear Engineers are smarter that the "regular user". Are you a Nuclear Engineer? You're dumb if you're not, cause obviously every smart person is a Nuclear Engineer...

CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12

Re: What does it matter?

Maybe it took a Nuclear Engineer to understand the correlation.
NetKrazy

join:2007-11-29
Littleton, CO

Re: What does it matter?

It was Karls attempt as always to insight anger and the big evil corporations. Ofcourse the nuclear engineer never bothered to change from his default password? (Anyone else catch that and feel a little worried).

And the second part of his complaint is that the service provide couldn't tell him "where all the traffic was to / from" Yet, I have no problem believing if they "did tell them" Karl would have posted how that provider is tracking all the customers traffic! PRIVACY VIOLATION!!!!!

Also while yes counters are off they are different... //overhead// is still viable to be included. Including that in the sum total of traffic is not "wrong" or "broken" it is however something that will make people like us stomp our feet. But a meter that includes overhead I would not say is "broken"
ilianame

join:2002-06-05
Burnaby, BC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Shaw

Re: What does it matter?

Yeah, I didn't want to sound condescending or disrespect Karl - I always read his news and it's definitely a big attraction on DSLR.
However, I feel a little uneasy from time to time, because the way I see his writing - it is very sensationalist and the sarcastic bias (I did put sarcastic) takes away from the credibility.
As in Karl puts the facts in such a light, where immediate action or even a revolt is almost implied, yet no tangible action is produced by the readers. It is a lot like Keiser Report about the banking industry, Max Keiser keeps screaming Financial Terrorists, Thiefs, points to actual facts, but nothing comes of it - effectively invalidating the entire presentation.
NetKrazy

join:2007-11-29
Littleton, CO

Re: What does it matter?

Agreed, but I will also in the same breath say that while I might criticize Karl and others.. I will also tip my hat to him. He's brought to light several things over the years that *needed* to be. And I do think his nature and the way he does do some of his writing does infact get results... I guess if you dig deep enough you can always find the bad and or good side to the same thing. I would like to see a bit more of positive articles though that don't three lines in reference something historic the company on topic did wrong :P

dslfan90

@sbcglobal.net
I agree. His articles always have a very anti big corporation slant. It does reduce the credibility. Focusing on some positive things once in a while would be nice, but I guess that would not draw the readers.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T DSL Service
·row44
said by ilianame:

No the article meant that Nuclear Engineers are smarter that the "regular user". Are you a Nuclear Engineer? You're dumb if you're not, cause obviously every smart person is a Nuclear Engineer...

Since they are not building any new nuclear plants right now, getting a nuclear engineering degree is not that smart.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
Iowa
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Clearwire
·AT&T Wireless Br..
·Comcast
·AT&T DSL Service
·RCN CABLE

Re: What does it matter?

wouldn't be said the same for those who do degree in IT, because most jobs are outshored to India? Many folks find themselves finishing 4 year college but ending up at start as tech support for win servers working night shifts. its a step above a call center but....

If I did accounting or finance instead, I'd probably have little more "normal" life and more things going on in my social life. Just saying
desarollo

join:2011-10-01
Monroe, MI
No, but they probably use it differently than you do.

I think the premise here is that a nuclear engineer possesses mathematics, set and statistics skills above the average consumer (go ahead, try to refute that). Therefore, if someone with these specialized skills can't figure out the metering, how is someone with a different skill set not so reliant upon mathematics?

dslfan90

@sbcglobal.net

Re: What does it matter?

The statement implies that if you are not a nuclear engineer, you are not smart enough to figure out something that one nuclear engineer could not understand.

The comparison was not well made. Tracking bandwidth overage has nothing to do with the field of nuclear engineering. There is no reason why someone who is not a nuclear engineer could understand it while a nuclear engineer could not.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T DSL Service
·row44

Re: What does it matter?

Do you want to know who the stupidest people are when it comes to computer problems??
Computer Science majors

I used to work computer tech support for a major university. Computer science majors call up and act like they know computers, but they are just a pain in the ass as they barely know how to turn one on.
Just because you can write a program in C++ does not mean you know anything about computers, lol.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.
neufuse

join:2006-12-06
Indiana, PA

Comcast

my comcast one still doesn't work right, it will show up for oh 3 months then mysteriously vanish.... have to beg to get them to fix it takes forever to get it fixed, then when it is it works for a couple months again and repeat......
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
Iowa

I have no problem with meter usage for my at&t wireless

service that is capped at 2GB a month. It closely matches to what my iphone counts in transfer.

t3ln3t

@clearwire-wmx.net

it's not that hard ...

seems to me, hosting providers and even some bandwidth providers, have been doing 95th percentile billing, for YEARS! It's not that hard to do, in reality. Perhaps a challenge, given the scale (60 million households?)

Knowing how at&t does things, they've probably been trying to pay someone like computer associates or BMC (someone like that) to deliver a boxed and supported solution.

Hey at&t ... I could implement a solution in a couple of days, and within the month it could be tested and ready for FOA trials. I won't of course, as at&t can EAT MY SHORTS!

Death to at&t!
Down with Lerch & Darth Felo!

NO UBB

@bell.ca

Read Below:

WE DON'T EVEN NEED METERED BILLING!

Chuck sTruck

@teksavvy.com

Agreed

The main Canadian incumbents all lie (including Telus) about everybody's internet usage. The third party isp's all seem to have accurate counters. Another issue the Prime Minister should do something about. The subscribers should be rebated billions of dollars for being charged false overuse fees.
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
·Comcast
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Millenicom

What are subscribers being charged for.

The ISP's are implementing metered billing but have not disclosed how usage is calculated.
Here are some theories as to what subscribers are actually being charged for to ponder over:
1) Actual payload without overhead.
2) Payload plus PPPoE or PPPoA encapsulation overhead.
3) Payload plus PPPoE or PPPoA encapsulation plus ATM encapsulation overhead.
4) Payload plus PPPoE or PPPoA encapsulation plus ATM encapsulation overhead plus modem server communication traffic.

I can just go on and on with an infinite number of combinations. Any ISP metering service should by law be required to disclose what subscribers are being billed for.

The other issue is advertising. Should subscribers be charged for traffic created by advertises downloading their advertisements along with requested webpages or should some method be created to charge all traffic generated by advertisers to the advertiser.

See 7 replies to this post
old_wiz_60

join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

If the ISPs

are making money on the overcharges, there's no reason for them to fix it. Given it's hard to prove incorrect charges, the ISPs are happy to overcharge.

Personally I think the ISPs don't have the technical skills to fix the issue anyway and they have little incentive to do so when the errors are making money for them.
Cloneman

join:2002-08-29
Montreal

.

What I want to know is, when did Mexico leave North America?
Movieman420

join:2007-08-28

comcast

My CC meter seemed to work fine for several months then about 3 months ago it totally disappeared. I live in a semi-rural area and I'd venture to guess that my node is far from congested. Maybe since I'm a triple play customer paying for the 30/5 tier and being on a low traffic node, they aren't bothered. Wishful thinking I know...but I've been averaging between 300 and 350gb a month (according to BWMeter I installed) and never got 'the call' yet. (me knocks on wood).
Rob_
Premium
join:2008-07-16
Mary Esther, FL

GREED

'enough said. When google launches their fiber, watch the whole idea of metered billing just die. This is stupid and not needed.

I wish 90 percent of cable tv's customers would just stop watching tv and just have internet (in protest) to the metered billing scandal.

-Rob

jchambers28

join:2007-05-12
Alma, AR

I agree

mine is inaccurate.

Salem

@comcast.net

Occupy Broadband

I can't wait for the day when anti-SOPA/PIPA-like protestors turn their attention toward the anti-competitive practices of Telecom. Occupy Comcast! haha

Anonymous12

@mycingular.net

usage meters

If it isnt accurate how can they overage charge us? Typical crap? They can do whatever they want because noone holds them accountable!!
nonamesleft

join:2011-11-07
Manitowoc, WI

How bout a smart meter

Like the electric meters on the side of the buildings? So that way we can be smartly over charged!

Wednesday, 23-May 22:16:04 Terms of Use & Privacy | feedback | contact | Hosting by nac.net - DSL,Hosting & Co-lo
over 12.5 years online © 1999-2012 dslreports.com.