 KearnstdElf WizardPremium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ | why Metered BB will fail at least under current business models is that its metering is not regulated as of yet. Other utilities(and BB providers do like to call internet a utility) have their meters highly regulated. And really anything sold per unit is regulated by the state. a gas pump cant sell me two gallons and pump only one. the scale at the supermarket cant charge for 2lbs of fruit when I only had one pound. the merchants get fined if their gauges are inaccurate like that.
However I bet UBB will never have to face the weights and measures department due to lobby power. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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 |  |  | | Re: why Metered BB will fail I think those companies don't mind the state calibrating their meters for free. They don't intentionally overcharge because it would eventually get them in trouble anyway, but unnoticed undercharging could really hurt them because their product actually costs them $/unit. | |
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 |  |  |  Warez_ZealotRural land of the rising sun join:2006-04-19 japan 1 edit | Re: why Metered BB will fail said by Wilsdom:I think those companies don't mind the state calibrating their meters for free. They don't intentionally overcharge because it would eventually get them in trouble anyway, but unnoticed undercharging could really hurt them because their product actually costs them $/unit. Sorry to say.. But that's a great way to put it if you don't know what you're talking about..
Rogers is actually are coming out with a propaganda "report" that contradicts the OECD report.. haha
»business.financialpost.com/2012/···Comments
-- "You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it."-Malcolm X
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 |  |  |  |  | | Re: why Metered BB will fail So the LYA 'report' defines broadband as 128kbps or greater the CRTC defines 128kbps as 'high speed' and broadband as 1.5mbps oh and the OCED report defines broadband as 256kbps OCED report also takes into account modem rental fees plus they don't include bundle prices ('preselection')
The LYA report is peppered with praise for Rogers as well as excuses why its lagging in some respects. It boggles my mind how they came up with this average price, the cheapest solution Rogers offers is higher than the average, meanwhile the LYA praises Rogers as being the largest ISP in the country. So largest ISP + $35 minimum plan = $33 average | |
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 |  |  |  | | That's true. However, the product they pay for is speed. The technical term is bandwidth. Not to be confused with data. Whether there's data going through this bandwidth is irrelevant, the bandwidth costs them the same either way. | |
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 |  |  OneEye join:2006-04-15 Peachtree City, GA Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| It's one thing to read all the DSLReport members pis%%%g and moaning about ISP providers (AT&T especially) implementing CAPS, but we're all standing on the bow of a sailboat pis%%%g into the wind (and getting wet in the process).
This forum is a relief valve here in our own little corner of the internet where all the malcontents can gather while the rest of the world goes its own way not caring that they are being shafted by CAPS right along with all internet users.
Someone with teeth has got to drag all the none ISP content providers (Netflix, Amazon, etc) into speaking with one voice against the ISPs. Forget Hulu Plus because of their Network (Comcast) ownership.
In my opinion, that one voice should be led by the webmasters at DSLReports. Get these businesses together and start hammering on the government and press to take up this issue.
Ask the consumer router industry why they won't provide Download Usage Counters in their wireless/4 port routers (specially Cisco/Linksys) so consumers can question the Empires metering?
Is AT&T and Cogeco's influence so great that consumers will always be mashed beneath their feet like dogs&%t? | |
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 |  |  |  | | Re: why Metered BB will fail said by OneEye:Ask the consumer router industry why they won't provide Download Usage Counters in their wireless/4 port routers (specially Cisco/Linksys) so consumers can question the Empires metering? Agreed. This is one reason why I insist on purchasing routers that can be flashed w DD-wrt. Now I can go back months at a time and look at monthly usage.
TBH, from my experience, Comcast is pretty spot on w/ their meter, at least when it's apparent or after your roll & re-provision to get it back) | |
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 |  NWOhio join:2011-10-25 Toledo, OH | Broadband providers do NOT call themselves utilties. They know if they do they can get regulated and thus adding extra taxes and fees to the bottom line and being required to do more. It's stupid for anyone to ask for regulation if you own the company.
The fact is nobody in the United States can just regulate the HSI providers without a problem. The FCC has no power over the Internet and they know it. Congress would have to give them that power to do just that. But then you have to decide what you're going to call it. Cable Internet is known as an Information Service. and DSL was/is a telecommunications service. So how are you going to regulate the two of them? It becomes a problem. | |
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 |  |  BF69Premium join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN | said by NWOhio:Broadband providers do NOT call themselves utilties Yet when they justify why they should be able to go to a metered billing they ALWAYS bring up utilitites as an example. | |
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 | | unsolicited traffic? Does unsolicited inbound traffic get metered and count against caps? What if someone targeted you with something like a DDOS would they be able to use up your allotted bandwidth? What about protocol overhead?
Most people dislike the mail service analogy, but seems this is like the post office charging recipients a fee instead of the sender and then we get a huge bill for all the junk mail and ads that I never wanted anyway. | |
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 |  | | Re: unsolicited traffic? I think they bill for overhead and maybe rounding as well.
But on the U-Verse side I think they are having a hardtime not counting the video data. | |
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 |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| said by thisIsJunk :Does unsolicited inbound traffic get metered and count against caps? What if someone targeted you with something like a DDOS would they be able to use up your allotted bandwidth? What about protocol overhead? Yes to all, and more. Unwanted ads. Unwanted malware. Massive patches to software that was defective and buggy. Everything, all traffic, whether you want it or not, or solicit it or not, will be on your dime. You'll pay for everything.
However, this will also make it very easy to prove damages. Since you pay for the unwanted traffic, you have an open and shut case in court about incurring losses. It's quite feasible you could sue apps makers, advertisers, even ISP's because of the "damages" you incur from unwanted traffic. -- "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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 OneEye join:2006-04-15 Peachtree City, GA Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Need Information Why is it that Cisco/Linksys will not add download usage meters to their consumer wireless/4 port routers?
Is their tie so strong with AT&T providing backbone routers with back doors to security agencies that consumers will never have built-in usage meters? | |
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 |  | | Re: Need Information There are unofficial methods by using third party firmware, particular the one called Tomato (aka TomatoUSB). | |
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 |  |  OneEye join:2006-04-15 Peachtree City, GA Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Need Information I know about Tomato but, like a lot of users, I've had to upgrade my wireless routers every two years or less to have access to new features. Having other than official software on the router voids the warranty.
Why can't Cisco/Linksys give us download counters with their wireless routers? | |
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 |  |  |  OneEye join:2006-04-15 Peachtree City, GA Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Need Information Why doesn't DSLReports ask Cisco/Linksys directly and publish their response on this forum.
Maybe, Cisco/Linksys will admit that counters can't work and then we, the public, will have ammunition to use against AT&T when they start billing users for exceeding CAPS. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  r81984Fair and BalancedPremium join:2001-11-14 Katy, TX Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T DSL Service
·row44
| Re: Need Information said by chgo_man99:customer owned equipment are primarly more unmanaged, more power oriented (video streaming, gaming, etc). If you wanna truly managed equipment you gotta pay more for it and learn more how to customize to your needs. You wanna fancy graphs, etc? You need to set up a monitoring server, cron jobs and mrtg, learn script languages, etc... Not true. Companies like dd-wrt make money offering all the best features on lower powered equipment. Cisco will not release firmware on their low end equipment that does everything their high end equipment does. They are trying to protect their high end products.
Cisco wants you to pay more for fully manned equipment, but with dd-wrt, tomoto, smoothwall, monowall, or your own programed software definately competes with their high end software. -- ...brought to you by Carl's Jr. | |
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 CableToolPoorly Representing MYSELF.Premium join:2004-11-12 | What does it matter? quote: and in one instance a nuclear engineer struggles with overage billing confusion -- making you wonder how normal users fare.
How is a Nuclear Engineer any different then any other regular user? Do they use the internet differently then I do? -- CableTechs.org/"Horrible People with Integrity" | |
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 |  ilianame join:2002-06-05 Burnaby, BC kudos:1 | Re: What does it matter? No the article meant that Nuclear Engineers are smarter that the "regular user". Are you a Nuclear Engineer? You're dumb if you're not, cause obviously every smart person is a Nuclear Engineer... | |
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 |  |  CableToolPoorly Representing MYSELF.Premium join:2004-11-12 | Re: What does it matter? Maybe it took a Nuclear Engineer to understand the correlation. | |
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 |  |  |  | | Re: What does it matter? It was Karls attempt as always to insight anger and the big evil corporations. Ofcourse the nuclear engineer never bothered to change from his default password? (Anyone else catch that and feel a little worried).
And the second part of his complaint is that the service provide couldn't tell him "where all the traffic was to / from" Yet, I have no problem believing if they "did tell them" Karl would have posted how that provider is tracking all the customers traffic! PRIVACY VIOLATION!!!!!
Also while yes counters are off they are different... //overhead// is still viable to be included. Including that in the sum total of traffic is not "wrong" or "broken" it is however something that will make people like us stomp our feet. But a meter that includes overhead I would not say is "broken" | |
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 |  |  |  |  ilianame join:2002-06-05 Burnaby, BC kudos:1 Reviews:
·Shaw
| Re: What does it matter? Yeah, I didn't want to sound condescending or disrespect Karl - I always read his news and it's definitely a big attraction on DSLR. However, I feel a little uneasy from time to time, because the way I see his writing - it is very sensationalist and the sarcastic bias (I did put sarcastic) takes away from the credibility. As in Karl puts the facts in such a light, where immediate action or even a revolt is almost implied, yet no tangible action is produced by the readers. It is a lot like Keiser Report about the banking industry, Max Keiser keeps screaming Financial Terrorists, Thiefs, points to actual facts, but nothing comes of it - effectively invalidating the entire presentation. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: What does it matter? Agreed, but I will also in the same breath say that while I might criticize Karl and others.. I will also tip my hat to him. He's brought to light several things over the years that *needed* to be. And I do think his nature and the way he does do some of his writing does infact get results... I guess if you dig deep enough you can always find the bad and or good side to the same thing. I would like to see a bit more of positive articles though that don't three lines in reference something historic the company on topic did wrong :P | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | I agree. His articles always have a very anti big corporation slant. It does reduce the credibility. Focusing on some positive things once in a while would be nice, but I guess that would not draw the readers. | |
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 |  | | No, but they probably use it differently than you do.
I think the premise here is that a nuclear engineer possesses mathematics, set and statistics skills above the average consumer (go ahead, try to refute that). Therefore, if someone with these specialized skills can't figure out the metering, how is someone with a different skill set not so reliant upon mathematics? | |
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 |  |  | | Re: What does it matter? The statement implies that if you are not a nuclear engineer, you are not smart enough to figure out something that one nuclear engineer could not understand.
The comparison was not well made. Tracking bandwidth overage has nothing to do with the field of nuclear engineering. There is no reason why someone who is not a nuclear engineer could understand it while a nuclear engineer could not. | |
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 | | Comcast my comcast one still doesn't work right, it will show up for oh 3 months then mysteriously vanish.... have to beg to get them to fix it takes forever to get it fixed, then when it is it works for a couple months again and repeat...... | |
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 | | I have no problem with meter usage for my at&t wireless service that is capped at 2GB a month. It closely matches to what my iphone counts in transfer. | |
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 | | it's not that hard ... seems to me, hosting providers and even some bandwidth providers, have been doing 95th percentile billing, for YEARS! It's not that hard to do, in reality. Perhaps a challenge, given the scale (60 million households?)
Knowing how at&t does things, they've probably been trying to pay someone like computer associates or BMC (someone like that) to deliver a boxed and supported solution.
Hey at&t ... I could implement a solution in a couple of days, and within the month it could be tested and ready for FOA trials. I won't of course, as at&t can EAT MY SHORTS!
Death to at&t! Down with Lerch & Darth Felo! | |
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 | | Read Below: WE DON'T EVEN NEED METERED BILLING! | |
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 | | Agreed The main Canadian incumbents all lie (including Telus) about everybody's internet usage. The third party isp's all seem to have accurate counters. Another issue the Prime Minister should do something about. The subscribers should be rebated billions of dollars for being charged false overuse fees. | |
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 |  See 7 replies to this post |
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 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| If the ISPs are making money on the overcharges, there's no reason for them to fix it. Given it's hard to prove incorrect charges, the ISPs are happy to overcharge.
Personally I think the ISPs don't have the technical skills to fix the issue anyway and they have little incentive to do so when the errors are making money for them. | |
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 | | . What I want to know is, when did Mexico leave North America? | |
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 | | comcast My CC meter seemed to work fine for several months then about 3 months ago it totally disappeared. I live in a semi-rural area and I'd venture to guess that my node is far from congested. Maybe since I'm a triple play customer paying for the 30/5 tier and being on a low traffic node, they aren't bothered. Wishful thinking I know...but I've been averaging between 300 and 350gb a month (according to BWMeter I installed) and never got 'the call' yet. (me knocks on wood). | |
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 Rob_Premium join:2008-07-16 Mary Esther, FL | GREED 'enough said. When google launches their fiber, watch the whole idea of metered billing just die. This is stupid and not needed.
I wish 90 percent of cable tv's customers would just stop watching tv and just have internet (in protest) to the metered billing scandal.
-Rob | |
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 | | I agree mine is inaccurate. | |
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 | | Occupy Broadband I can't wait for the day when anti-SOPA/PIPA-like protestors turn their attention toward the anti-competitive practices of Telecom. Occupy Comcast! haha | |
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 | | usage meters If it isnt accurate how can they overage charge us? Typical crap? They can do whatever they want because noone holds them accountable!! | |
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 | | How bout a smart meter Like the electric meters on the side of the buildings? So that way we can be smartly over charged!  | |
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