 
Logan 5
Technical Difficulties - Please Stand By
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-25
The WasteLAN |  Won?!? Round 1 maybe but not the war
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 | bluedragon99
join:2005-12-02
Alpharetta, GA | Re: Won?!? Round 1 maybe but not the war Unless your company is running TrueProtection 
www.trueprotection.com | |
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lucky644
Premium
join:2002-02-04
| Re: Won?!? Round 1 maybe but not the war said by bluedragon99  :Unless your company is running TrueProtection www.trueprotection.com Never heard of it....anyone know anything about this scanner? | |
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st7860
join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA | ad Ad-aware used to detect New.net but not anymore because ad-aware says they are innocent now.
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»www.fatkidsong.com | |
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| wuy3
join:2004-08-04
North Haven, CT | ya they won We'll never get rid of advertising. They pushed as much of it as we could stomach on TV and now they'll find the breaking point for the net. Sonner or later we'll be required to have adware installed just to get online, mark my words. | |
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novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH
| Re: ya they won said by wuy3 :We'll never get rid of advertising. They pushed as much of it as we could stomach on TV and now they'll find the breaking point for the net. Sonner or later we'll be required to have adware installed just to get online, mark my words. Tolate aol has done that for years juno has always been that way netzero again advert banner or no net. Netzero and juno essentially dont allow you to play any full screen game. This covers up their banner and its a instant disconnect for you. Corse you can always find the netzero banner program and end task on it and avoid that.
Ad sponsered pay internet has been around for a very long time. Ive never seen so many adverts as i do on aol when i work on such a system. On log in you have half a dozen windows with adverts.
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DSLR security chat at us.ausirc.net chanel #dslr_sec lets pack this channelopen source dns server for *nix and windows »powerdns.com | |
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| petecellar
join:2002-10-15
Philadelphia, PA
| Re: ad said by st7860 :Ad-aware used to detect New.net but not anymore because ad-aware says they are innocent now. That's very depressing that you can no longer trust any removal apps. It's bad enough when your app misses stuff due to a new trojan or some programming error, but toknow that they've been paid off the list. sucks. Capitalism gone awry IMO. | |
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| st7860
join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA
| said by st7860 :Ad-aware used to detect New.net but not anymore because ad-aware says they are innocent now. Well, SPYBOT is still independant and removes the stuff that ad-aware no longer removes.
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»www.fatkidsong.com | |
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| Scuba2
join:2004-01-13
Under da sea
edit:
December 2nd, @01:03PM
| Maybe it is time to take a different approach.
Instead of marketing the anti adware and anti spyware software as they do I think it should be marketed as a performance enhancement utility. I should be able to remove any software off my PC as I see fit. The anti adware and anti spyware vendors won’t list the villains as adware or spyware. They would just be providing a utility to remove ( crap ) software. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by st7860 :Ad-aware used to detect New.net but not anymore because ad-aware says they are innocent now. In my book, anything that modifies your stack is NOT INNOCENT.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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ItAintOverYet
| Not so fast... You may recall some folks took it upon themselves to "effectively" shut-down a SPAM site or two not so long ago. I'd be willing to bet that if the SPAMMING don't stop that Claria, 180 SPAMMING, and a whole bunch more "operators" are gonna endure some social justice that will be a very compelling incentive to stop the SPAMMING. Since these SCUMBAG CRIMINALS are SPAMMING FOR DOLLARS then you can find them and they can be shut down. | |
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| Necronomikro
join:2005-09-01 | Re: Not so fast... Spam? No, this isn't 'spam'. It's just as bad, though.
At least spam doesn't get you infected and slow your system down to a crawl (unless you click on links in spam). | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
 ·AT&T Midwest
| said by ItAintOverYet :
You may recall some folks took it upon themselves to "effectively" shut-down a SPAM site or two not so long ago. I'd be willing to bet that if the SPAMMING don't stop that Claria, 180 SPAMMING, and a whole bunch more "operators" are gonna endure some social justice that will be a very compelling incentive to stop the SPAMMING. Since these SCUMBAG CRIMINALS are SPAMMING FOR DOLLARS then you can find them and they can be shut down.
Since what you are proposing is in itself illegal, your actions would be criminal and you could find yourself in the same prison cell with one of those "music pirates" you love so much. Oh, the horror!
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: 180scumbags sues Zone Labs We know these are "scum" but there won't be 1 computer literate person on the jury......if zonelabs fights and doesn't cut and run, I don't see how 180solutions can win....
zone lawyer: did you authorize their software to be installed?
was there a complete uninstall mechanism if you
decided you no longer wanted it?
judge: now I know why my computer is so fu#ked up
I
it's like the RIAA....if you decide to fight they back off,I can't possibly see how they can actally win
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BlooMe | |
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johnqpublic
Premium
join:2002-03-22
Xanadu
| Re: 180scumbags sues Zone Labs said by woody7 :We know these are "scum" but there won't be 1 computer literate person on the jury...... Your point about most people being computer illiterate is well taken. However, considering the suit was filed in Washington state, where a lot of software companies/developers reside, we can hope at least one computer literate person will get on the jury (assuming a jury trial takes place) and educate the rest.
FWIW, I would love to see Zone Labs fight this one. Not only do I support the developer by purchasing ZoneAlarm Pro, I'd even throw in a couple bucks should they wish to create a litigation fund and solicit donations. | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL | And most of the public didn't even notice Most of the public didn't (and doesn't) even care. That's the problem: This is a non-issue with the vast majority of users.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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DSL_Steve
Premium
join:2003-11-28
Woodbury, CT | Re: And most of the public didn't even notice ...one of the reasons I bought my daughter a Mac (not to mention that she wanted one anyway). | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: And most of the public didn't even notice I've got a tenant like that. Her computer takes about five minutes to boot, and I stopped asking her if she ever does even a minimal ad/spy/whatever scan. At least she is still running and updating the AV I installed.
One of the silliest things I've heard is one of her friends telling her that it's slow because it's "full" and she needs to buy a bigger computer. Well, I guess they are half right.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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| | | radarman
join:2005-06-01
Odenton, MD
| Re: And most of the public didn't even notice You know, you can occasionally get some great deals on computers that way.
If asked beforehand, I always help people clean up their machines. However, in several cases, the machines had already been replaced by the time I arrived on the scene. I've scored some fairly decent little Pentium III based computers this way - gratis. Their owners are so irritated with how slow they run that they just want them out of their hair. (I've also found a couple sitting by the dumpster in the same condition)
Most I've cleaned up (reinstalled) and given away, but I still have one of them I keep around as a "Test box". | |
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DigitalDeviant
@rr.com
| Most of the public just happily clicks and ignores everything, which is a part of the whole problem. I only got infected by Gator once by installing a certain free p2p client in a hurry and not reading the EULA, which didn't even try bury the fact that it contained spyware. Now who should I have been mad at?
Now I realize that probably this isn't the case with all spyware installs but I've had no other problems with spyware being installed from freeware applications outside that one. I read what I'm agreeing to and if I don't agree then I don't install.
Now I know you all are going to shout that the "average" user doesn't read this but IMHO that makes them as guilty as most spyware companies. So instead of plotting illegal activities to try to strong arm Claire into submission, why don't you start telling the idiots to read what the heck they're clicking "I Agree" to and concentrate on the companies that are in fact illegally installing spyware. | |
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| | TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| Re: And most of the public didn't even notice said by DigitalDeviant :
I only got infected by Gator once by installing a certain free p2p client in a hurry and not reading the EULA, which didn't even try bury the fact that it contained spyware. Yeah, I did something like that once, and I'm knowledgeable, and normally very carefully. But I was installing some "free" software, and was rushing thru it (click this... ok... click that... ok), and not really paying attention. Next thing I know, my 11-year-old is yelling at me, "Dad! Why did you click on that?!"
Oh, s!*t... I had seen it, but it didn't actually register until my son said something. Took us about a half an hour to clean up that particular mess.
said by DigitalDeviant :
Now I know you all are going to shout that the "average" user doesn't read this but IMHO that makes them as guilty as most spyware companies. I'll agree with that, to a point. If they state it briefly, in plain English, then I guess I don't have a problem with it. But the ones that say it in long, drawn-out, complex legalese that most people don't understand, then I feel they're trying to "put one over" on the user, and should have their asses nailed to the wall. | |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Levittown, PA
| there is a solution.. "Do you wish to install this? If yes, you can "COMPLETELY" uninstall it by using the uninstaller in the Program's folder. If no, click Do NOT install and the rest of the app will continue".
There should be No Trace left (Registry, dll, cookie...) when you uninstall.
I think MS should be more responsible and provide a log of ALL activity at Application installs. Then you could just check the log, add the text to a script and run a batch removal. If any vendor writes code that fails to log, its spyware/adware.
Granted, if you are installing an illegal-use proggy (emule, p2p..) then its likely the proggy will have something insidious. Afterall, most p2p, torrent apps aren't for sending homemade movies to the net. 
Anything that installs without a COMPLETE, IDIOT-PROOF reversal and Non-Damaging effect to the OS, and tracks, responds, records, verifies the users identity and web habits is a spy(ware).
Don't even get me started on how they offer a Remove/Uninstaller that REQUIRES you to have their Permission from Their Website and then wastes more of your time and money. | |
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OceanaJones
join:2004-10-18
Suffolk, VA
| AOL responsible for a lot Of all the computers I have the pleasure of cleaning crapware from, it seems to me AOL is one of the worst offenders. Their bloatware pushes more crap onto unsuspecting users than any other. Their bloated cruddy programs suck the resources out of computers owned by people that just don't know or understand internet or computer basics. People click on pop ups, thinking they are endorsed by, or a product of AOL, when actually they are being suckered into downloading crapware.
Any vendor that installs a program on another computer should, by law, be forced to have a uninstaller available in Add/Remove programs. Absolutely NO program should legally be allowed to download and hide itself or change OS system files or otherwise "cloak" itself to avoid detection. If advertisers want their piece of the internet, they should be forced by law to be totally above the board, and not be sneaky, sniveling, and underhanded just because they have the programmers that think they can get away with it. | |
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Squirrelly
join:2000-10-24
Harrisburg, PA | Re: AOL responsible for a lot Buy a Mac | |
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| | kurcz
join:2005-07-15
Windsor, ON | Re: AOL responsible for a lot Only a matter of time before the spyware goes to OSX, so theres no winning... | |
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BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH | Spyware not a big deal. AOL is bloated crap, not spyware. I use Spybot to get rid of it, and I am never buying another win box (go OSX!!). Not really a big issue. How about the DMCA and broadband adoption? | |
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bjbrock
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK
| The consumer is the only warrior that can defeat spyware. Simply refuse to patronize any company using spyware tactics and the war will be over quick.
For those who doubt the consumer wields all the power, look at how fast Sony pulled the rootkit drm when consumers stood up and claimed their rightful place as king of the capitalistic world. | |
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cao1964
join:2000-08-09
Danville, PA
| Re: The consumer is the only warrior Oh please Sony just made a mistake, but do you think they will not come back next time doing it right, sure they will, but all this is mute any way, Vista will have it built in, so will from what I hear OS X on macs.
Sure people do not have to use these OS and some will not, more power to them.
But for most it will be a different world. And Sony is a very big company that just messed up but they will do it again, and next time it will be done the right way and maybe inhouse. But this is not the same as spyware. | |
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wmcbrine
Touched by His Noodly Appendage
join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD | Re: The consumer is the only warrior Since there's no right way to do it, I disagree. They'll try again, and it will be rejected again. | |
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cao1964
join:2000-08-09
Danville, PA
| So who has the better lawyers Makes sense that those with the money would wing the battles, oh well, no different from anything else, ever seen how many games have adds now.
Get use to it, good luck, I see them maybe getting the RIAA lawyers to help them, money money money.
Sweeeeeet | |
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novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH
| Re: So who has the better lawyers As for averts in general on web sites i have no problems with that at all. Long as thats not all i see and isnt a popup or popunder. And hey keep your adverts related to your sites content and i might just click on it and i might just buy from your sponser. Ive got about 4 or 5 computer related sites banner ids book marked for the likes of newegg. When i buy from newegg i pick one starting at the top then moving down with each purchase or visit. All the bookmarks say new egg banner so i dont even know whos banner im clicking on.
I beleive in webmasters makeing money from our clicks on their sponser esp when they provide us with their sites content for free.
Heck id not mind seein a button or banner for new egg here on broadband reports for new egg. Put it up there ill click it when i need to buy somethign from newegg. You just got to wait your turn
Now popups unders and spyware have no buissness being on the net imo. Popups and unders waste my ram and screen space. They cause confusion as to wich window to close etc. Spyware will just make me go some where else.
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DSLR security chat at us.ausirc.net chanel #dslr_sec lets pack this channelopen source dns server for *nix and windows »powerdns.com | |
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FlyinV
join:2003-04-14
Portland, OR
| ya Is there really a person out there who wants the spyware?
Do they want a mass of popups everytime they visit a site?
I think if the adware companies clearly communicated to people what their applications did -- They would find no one would install them.
Thats the part I find shady -- They try to hide in the fine print and "sneak" onto people's computers.
Why are they hiding? Could it be that not one single perons would install that crap if they clearly asked? | |
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Taranis
join:2001-12-06
Mount Vernon, WA
 ·wavebroadband
| What a shame It's a shame that the vast majority of computer users are so lazy and ignorant, that they'll blindly let these spyware companies do what they do. Maybe if they got a phone call every time they got a pop-up, they would pay more attention.
Actually, if it started costing them money or convenience that was more tangible than a mouse-click, they would. Yet because of that same ignorance, it must be someone else's fault - the computer, the site, the companies or corporations - anyone but the end users themselves. It's got to get worse - much worse - before the public in general will cry foul. I fear we're far from that day.
Years ago, I used WebWasher because I was sick of the skyscraper and banner ads on sites. Now that there's even more crap on there I don't want, I moved on to SuperAdBlocker. It blocks spyware, flash, ads, fly-in ads, and has integrated cookie and temporary internet file folder management. Awesome app, but it's not free.
It's unfortunate for legitimate site admins that rely on advertising to pay for their content, but the content they actually send to the end users these days is nuts. Ever tried to read an article on ZDNet or CNet? They used to be fairly clean, layout-speaking. Now there's flash ads, skyscraper ads and banners covering nearly every square inch of the screen. Same with many others...
As far as I'm concerned, at this point, these site admins and others have asked for it.
And, back on topic, this little app has helped keep my HTPC spyware free for months now. | |
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capecoddah
join:2005-03-18
Yarmouth Port, MA
| Ever notice that.... All the things that spyware promotes is crap you would NEVER want to buy anyway? I rather doubt that they make up much of the much vaunted 'Black-Monday' sales. I have no problem with a tasteful ad related to a site I visit for free. Don't track/stalk me though, that's just not nice. Newspaper sites seem to do that alot, yet never print many articles, nevermind letters to the editor or actual editorials, about adware/spyware/popups. | |
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FiL
Premium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD
| man,,, Even Jesus H. Christ cant stop the almighty Spam Machine...
well, when i become president, i'll employ B.uck F.ush tactics and aim all remaining nukes (prolly got hundreds 'left over') and delete spyware denizens the American way! whos with me?! | |
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mamoon
@fdn.com
| An idea Let's start charging rental to the adware companies. We find their product on our machines it's $150.00 a day to leave it. That is only fair. The cost of owning and maintaining a computer system for use is about 66% of that price plus taxes, etc. Our time is worth something to to maintain the computer. Where can we send the bills? There is money flowing somewhere so where is my cut for doing some of the work? | |
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BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH | lol on renting lol on the renting idea. Just use FF or Opera with popup blocker enabled, and spybot once a week and your computer will be clean. | |
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Ad/Spyware Vendors Won the War
180scumbags sues Zone Labs
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