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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time Unfortunately, the new incoming admin plans on expanding it with the subsequent further waste of phone customers hard earned money in MORE fees. Expansion of the USF before reform (or elimination) has been a bi-partisan push, with support also coming from Kevin Martin and Ted Stevens. | |
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| | BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time said by Karl Bode  :Unfortunately, the new incoming admin plans on expanding it with the subsequent further waste of phone customers hard earned money in MORE fees. Expansion of the USF before reform (or elimination) has been a bi-partisan push, with support also coming from Kevin Martin and Ted Stevens. Well Martin will no longer be head guy at the FCC and Ted Stevens lost relection. | |
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| nitzan
join:2008-02-27
 ·Comcast
 ·ViaTalk
| said by TK Junk Mail :The fund should be abolished all together. Agreed. The USF has so many things wrong with it that we should just get rid of it altogether!
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Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation | |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time said by nitzan :said by TK Junk Mail :The fund should be abolished all together. Agreed. The USF has so many things wrong with it that we should just get rid of it altogether! Yes, it has been a complete disaster. The whole E-Rate program was so abused that it lost all credibility years ago. The USF money hasnt gone to the people it was intended to for a long time, and has only been a burden on consumers who pay into it each month.
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Комитет государственной безопасности
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NetAdmin
join:2008-05-22
| Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time said by wifi4milez :The whole E-Rate program was so abused that it lost all credibility years ago. That was because there were no rules when it started, but that has changed and the new rules make it much harder for you to cheat the system.
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rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY
| Amazing how you and only you can write something that is correct in principle and cannot help yourself and drag politics into it thereby making a post that started out being of truth and flip it into the usual conservative hate fest, divide the country, pro corporate post we here at BBR expect from you. you really need to get a grip on reality. FYI most Americans are tired of the hate message. the new Administration is not in power yet. the economy is cratering all due to the policies of fiscal trickle down conservatism and you it appears would rather see the United States be completely destroyed rather than hope like the rest of us the new President may help the country. for one who claims to be a patriot you are very un patriotic. how can you say you're pro America and secretly hope the new President and his administration fails. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
edit:
November 23rd, @12:51PM
| Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time LOL. Read much in to a simple factual post???
End of discussion - with you anyway. | |
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NetAdmin
join:2008-05-22
edit:
November 23rd, @12:36PM
| said by TK Junk Mail :The fund should be abolished all together. So, by eliminating the USF and the funding that goes to schools and libraries to provide internet and other network access, you obviously support making our schools and education system even less competitive, right? That is the only logical conclusion from your statement because you don't make an exception for funding schools and libraries.
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Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time said by NetAdmin :said by TK Junk Mail :The fund should be abolished all together. So, by eliminating the USF and the funding that goes to schools and libraries to provide internet and other network access, you obviously support making our schools and education system even less competitive, right? That is the only logical conclusion from your statement because you don't make an exception for funding schools and libraries. Dumping the USF has NOTHING to do with funding schools. Using the USF for school funding has been a total disaster as the funds have gone to things that have nothing to do with adequately educating children. Keep the Feds away from school funding - leave that to the states and local communities where it belongs.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
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NetAdmin
join:2008-05-22
| Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time said by TK Junk Mail :Dumping the USF has NOTHING to do with funding schools. On the contrary, USF funding pays for the internet connectivity and much of the network equipment used in schools. Look up the E-Rate program.
Using the USF for school funding has been a total disaster as the funds have gone to things that have nothing to do with adequately educating children. Nothing? I'm pretty sure giving kids a basic understanding of computers and how to use the internet is pretty important to the education process. In a country where the kids leaving school aren't as competitive with other nations in technology, science and math, it seems pretty obvious that technology needs to be part of the curriculum.
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| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time said by NetAdmin :Nothing? I'm pretty sure giving kids a basic understanding of computers and how to use the internet is pretty important to the education process. In a country where the kids leaving school aren't as competitive with other nations in technology, science and math, it seems pretty obvious that technology needs to be part of the curriculum. Nothing like a 500 student middle school with 4 computer labs and 100 PCs that are used by the honors class 3 times a year, and otherwise are open before school for 30 minutes, and available with a teacher referral afterschool for 45 mins 2 days a week. There was 1 afterschool computer club, I don't remember for what, that met twice a week. No computer courses existed at this school. The white keyboards look brand new (no wear on keys, very clean keyboards) yet the computers are 3 years old. Pork, nothing more. This was circa 2004. School had a 155 mbit connection yet bandwidth never went above 15 mbit, about 5 mbit overnight (this was in a study the school paid for on how to get any kind of usage out of their computers in 2006, only 20% of teachers knew what a file was, 40% could use email, only 5% of teachers heard of powerpoint).
I once saw a storage room with a field of computer projectors (~25), all dust free and scratchless, never used.
An ultra elite private school actually had a mandatory laptops in every classroom program, everyone carried them like their binder, 2 years later, I ask the kids what happened to the laptops?, they told me "yeah we still have them, but only in 2 classes we sometimes use them, teacher tells us to bring them in when she wants us to use them". This was late 1990s/early 2000s.
In college, same thing, ethernet ports for every chair, my friend told me, he doesn't know his english teacher's name, he never looked up from watching anime the whole semester. Next semester, I happen to get that teacher, and on day 1 she hands out a 3 page photo copy of a higher education instructor industry magazine of why laptops are wrong in the classroom, one of the issues was students watching porn during class (in a mainly male major, nobody will protest, but the eyes and grin give it away).
Most people don't have the discipline to not misuse computers in the classroom, nuff said. And schools which have no clue, and union teachers who couldn't care less, are a waste to spend a cent on technology if top to bottom none of the staff wants to let anyone near that new fangeled calculators. | |
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| | stevephl
join:2000-11-27
Colorado Springs, CO
·Comcast
| An even better approach to school funding, start by eliminating some of the fat that is cut back on the number of administrators and non-teaching positions at schools. Elimination of the NEA and teacher unions. If a school needs a technology upgrade then put a measure so stating this and why on the local school district ballot and let the people decide if they want to fund this project. Do not automatically steal the money from people for supposed school or library upgrades.
But really does your schools success/failure hinge on any dollars reaped from the USF? Maybe your local board of education needs to reconsider its priorities, cut back on sports programs to reinforce technology projects right? | |
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NetAdmin
join:2008-05-22
| Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time said by stevephl :AIf a school needs a technology upgrade then put a measure so stating this and why on the local school district ballot and let the people decide if they want to fund this project. That would work if EVERY school district had funding parity. What your idea does is create an issue where districts with poorer citizens, ergo smaller tax bases, would be left at a huge disadvantage. This idea has already been tried and creates more problems than it solves, key among them is that poorer communities get poorer educations due to less or complete inadequate funding.
Do not automatically steal the money from people for supposed school or library upgrades. Stealing? Talk about hyperbole.
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| | | | wildcat man
join:2007-11-03
Kansas City, MO
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time I think the questions raised here are good, but you both fail to understand the key issue: defining what is rural and what is poor. Re: many/ most of the schools in the inner city have plenty of fiber and copper nearby - the issue is permitting costs to get into the school (!). Not all of the funds are being used for the noble purposes intended (I agree with the previous viewer that government passes stuff and frequently mismanages the follow up). Many of the rural areas are able to fund most of the sites (take Fraser, CO where I have a home: they qualify for eRate - so does Eagle which is the airport serving Vail and Aspen - it's crazy). I agree with the need to build a more technologically literate society, but doing it through the current structure is extremely inefficient and unnecessary. There are much better ways. | |
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| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| said by NetAdmin :That would work if EVERY school district had funding parity. What your idea does is create an issue where districts with poorer citizens, ergo smaller tax bases, would be left at a huge disadvantage. This idea has already been tried and creates more problems than it solves, key among them is that poorer communities get poorer educations due to less or complete inadequate funding. If the parents won't vote in politicians who will raise taxes to pay for public schools, its their fault. You reap what you sow. I've seen rural schools in rural farm-ish towns with endless empty retail and abandoned and arsoned buildings exceed budgets for private schools, where the school is demolished and rebuilt constantly (new wing created, oldest wing torn down every 10 years, so no part is more than 25 years old). Public school district is $13K per student per year, private school is cheaper. The school complex is the best and newest looking building in town.
The government has power to collect infinite taxes from the public, subject to election of politicians. If the people refuse to raise taxes for their public schools, their fault alone. | |
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NetAdmin
join:2008-05-22
| Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time said by patcat88 :The government has power to collect infinite taxes from the public, subject to election of politicians. If the people refuse to raise taxes for their public schools, their fault alone. Yeah, they could do that, but then again, these are areas with low property values and low wages already. You can't tax blood out of a stone. The current system of local funding creates problems where poorer towns and counties are at a disadvantage, period. You can't raises taxes when there isn't enough money to fund schools, roads and still allow people to live.
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| | | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time said by NetAdmin :Yeah, they could do that, but then again, these are areas with low property values and low wages already. You can't tax blood out of a stone. The current system of local funding creates problems where poorer towns and counties are at a disadvantage, period. You can't raises taxes when there isn't enough money to fund schools, roads and still allow people to live. Then tax until you get rid of the poor. Less people means less govt expenditure. More seizure and more charges for tax evasion. | |
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NetAdmin
join:2008-05-22
| Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time said by patcat88 :Then tax until you get rid of the poor. Less people means less govt expenditure. More seizure and more charges for tax evasion. I'm left to wonder by this post whether you are incredibly sarcastic or incredibly clueless... I'm hoping it is the former and not the latter.
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| | | | | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time downsize the town, sell seized land, rezone it to farming, sell it to a corporate farming corporation, eventually wind up with a 15 person town govt | |
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| stevephl
join:2000-11-27
Colorado Springs, CO | I agree with you 100%; with a Marxist administration about to be coroneted in January we can look forward to further expansion of wealth re-distribution programs.
Stockpiling in Colorado
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
 ·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time said by stevephl :I agree with you 100%; with a Marxist administration about to be coroneted in January we can look forward to further expansion of wealth re-distribution programs. Stockpiling in Colorado Don't step on your own landmine.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | s13
join:2007-12-06
USA | Do you actually know what "Marxist" means, or are you just bleating the ignorance you've heard from degenerates like Hannity and Coulter?
BAAA! BAAAAA! said sheephl. | |
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Zen6
@rr.com
 from:
TK Junk Mail
| I agree, the USF is now just a cash cow for the telco's. The infrastructure for broadband for schools has been in place for years, and it's cost was negligible. | |
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DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
Metairie, LA
clubs: | USF on cell phones? Excuse my ignorance, but is there a USF charge on cell phones as well? | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
edit:
November 23rd, @12:02PM
| Re: USF on cell phones? Yes...
$1.2 billion was paid last year to cell carriers who do business in rural areas... | |
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cabana
now in strawberry
Assistant
join:2000-07-07
New York, NY
Host:
AT&T Southeast
56k lookout! (broa..
| Re: USF on cell phones? I would have rather seen them get community service. 18 million is NOTHING for them to pay. Each and every yo yo in on the scheme should have to go to the school they should have served with this supposed USF fund and volunteer their time and effort. Look a few kids in the eyes...   | |
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| | | MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: USF on cell phones? You are a dupe. You don't take the trouble to find out what the case is actually about.
It is not about not paying the USF fees. It is about a technicality as to how the bills were written. | |
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cabana
now in strawberry
Assistant
join:2000-07-07
New York, NY
Host:
AT&T Southeast
56k lookout! (broa..
| Re: USF on cell phones? said by MyDogHsFleas :You are a dupe. You don't take the trouble to find out what the case is actually about. It is not about not paying the USF fees. It is about a technicality as to how the bills were written. And my comment was motivated by this statement " have stated for years, the USF is an unaccountable money pit -- where your money goes to carriers, but how and where it's spent (or if it even reaches under-served schools and communities) is never certain."
Lighten up ... my point was more to the "motivation" of all of these fees that are collected under the guise of helping some needy entity like the supposed lottery money that supports school | |
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| MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Fraud What Fraud? said by WiseOldNerd :Karl, apparently nobody else sees the tongue in cheek humor of your comment on who is supporting USF expansion. At least both of them will be gone in the new year. It would be nice if the new Justice Department administration launched an investigation into this disgraceful situation and really laid the phone companies up side the head with some serious penalties. I do like the idea of community service. First let them pick up litter and garbage and then wash down the streets by licking them with their long slimy tongues.  They might include all current and former FCC members as equal participants in the conspiracy to defraud.  If you took the trouble to actually read the court documents (like I did) rather than relying on the way it's being framed, you'd realize this has nothing to do with the USF fund per se. It has to do with exactly how the bills were written. | |
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MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest
edit:
November 23rd, @12:43PM
| The issue is not "overcharging", it's disclosure and the CSA I had to look around a bit to find the actual issues, which are not at all how Karl frames them.
Here's a good document from which you can glean the actual issues:
»https://ecf.ksd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/sho···1468-914
In a nutshell, the lawsuit is based on the words AT&T and Sprint used to characterize the USF/UCC charges on their bills, and whether the Customer Service Agreement (CSA) was breached by those words. Is it is tax? a fee? a charge? a surcharge? Read the linked document to see highly paid lawyers make angels dance on the heads of pins over these definitions.
There really was no "overcharge" to speak of. AT&T and Sprint collected some money, and they also paid some money. They dispute exactly how to account for matching up those charges and payments. There probably was a little more coming in than going out in some periods, and a little less in others.
Note that none of this has anything whatsoever to do with the USF fund itself and its management or mismanagement. It's all about how the bills and CSA were crafted.
The outcome? The plaintiff's lawyers get millions of dollars. The customers get some token in the mail if they take the trouble to ask for it.
In the case of Sprint, it was a 100 or 250 minute long distance calling card. It'll probably be something similar for AT&T. How much benefit is that for the average consumer, who probably has an unlimited long distance plan anyway (via cell or VoIP) ??
So once again a corporation is raped by plaintiff's lawyers who pick apart bills and CSAs, make a ton of money, and consumers get basically nothing. Is this a great system or what? | |
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| Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Re: The issue is not "overcharging", it's disclosure and the CSA Last time I looked there was a pretty simple general ledger that easily keeps track of incoming and outgoing funds.
I am pretty sure those same ledgers are pretty standard in any accounting program as well.
And yet it is to hard for these corporations to keep track of what they collect and where they spend it? If it is hard, it is hard because they are trying to hide it. | |
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IIyouandtwomakes
@comcast.net
| Honest Companies It seems like EVERY day I read about SOME company being in SOME trouble for SOMETHING they've done wrong or tried to get away with.
Can't these f-in people just run a company that provides a service and just bill their customers in a normal everyday way like in years gone bye? Remember 20 years ago when you got your bills in the mail and you just paid them and all with was right with the world?
Now these damn companies are trying all kinds of different business models and trying all kinds of creative ways to steal a buck and all they do is get into trouble. Oh sure they get away with it for a while and they make huge profits but in the end they just end up getting caught by someone.
Sheesh.... get the picture you big dumb ass companies! | |
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BK3
join:2001-04-10
Geneva, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
| My question .... My question is = Where is the $17 million dollars going? Who collects the money? What will it be spent on?
OR
Is it one of those non-awards where a company is found to be in the wrong, loses an award, but the award never really gets paid to anyone?
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Atomic batteries to power - Turbines to speed - ready to move out. | |
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| MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: My question .... That will be determined.
You can be sure the trial lawyers will get a multi-million dollar chunk of it.
Typically the consumers get a pittance.
In the Sprint settlement of the same lawsuit, the trial lawyers got $5 million and the consumers got a card for either a free 200 or 500 minutes of long distance calls. No cash for the "wronged party". | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ | LOL! Guess whos getting ANOTHER new unfee to recover this $17M
"A T & T, your world delivered[to you at inflated prices]"
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs: | Signup Using mixed estimates, where do I go to get my refund check of ~$0.12? | |
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AT&T To Pay $17 Million For USF Over-Charging
Just 1 more reason to bag the USF fund for all time
