 
ninjatutle
You can keep the "change"
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | How well is it going to work in STL's heat? I've been there once. They had to cancel schools because it was too hot  | |
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AR
Premium,ExMod 2001-04
join:2000-09-21
Toronto, ON
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
| Educate me I've always thought that incumbents (esp. telcos) would not like to encourage Wi-Fi as it'd be a threat to their broadband and even wireless business.
So what's ATT's strategic objective out of this? Capturing market share?
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Exercise and Diet journal. | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: Educate me Well, they: prevent an Earthlink or someone else from winning the contract, use the fact that existing AT&T DSL customers get fairly inexpensive Wi-Fi as a market differentiator, and market the AT&T brand to free users stopping by.
I have to think they aren't entirely sold that this is a serious money-maker or marketing opportunity or there would be broader effort... | |
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AR
Premium,ExMod 2001-04
join:2000-09-21
Toronto, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| Re: Educate me Since it is paid service and not free, it could be also they see it as a potential emerging market and they're getting into it just because they can????
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Exercise and Diet journal. | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: Educate me I don't know. I think their primary interest here is to set up a few test Wi-Fi networks and see from first-hand data if there's decent ROI there.
Probably based on the convincing board-room lecture of some up and coming middle-manager who thinks there's a .4% chance Earthlink is a threat to the empire. | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL | Re: Educate me They already do $1.95/mo WiFi for DSL customers through their Freedomlink service, so this is not that much of a stretch, actually. Someone is definitely testing the waters.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
 ·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| Call me a cynic, but based on the track record of every single other citywide Wi-Fi announcement, and that of SBC, my guess is that SBC...er...AT&T plans on sticking to its usual modus operandi, and using the contract to lock out competition. I doubt that they will ever actually build it. | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: Educate me Yeah, but just targeting St. Louis and Napa, California is half-assed. When AT&T has a real mind to lock out competition, they bring out the lobbyists on a broader scale and fire up the mammoth PR machine.
This strikes me as just a casual sniff of a potentially competitive market that they probably figure they'll dominate via HSDPA or WiMax anyway.... | |
| | | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| Re: Educate me said by Karl Bode  :Yeah, but just targeting St. Louis and Napa, California is half-assed. When AT&T has a real mind to lock out competition, they bring out the lobbyists on a broader scale and fire up the mammoth PR machine. I have little doubt that their lobbyists are hard at work as we speak. And you can be sure that many of those seemingly grassroots "reform" TV commercials and websites are in fact wolves in sheep's clothing.
This strikes me as just a casual sniff of a potentially competitive market that they probably figure they'll dominate via HSDPA or WiMax anyway.... It's far from casual. It's just one level of a multilevel plan of attack. If they went after every Wi-Fi Internet franchise all at once, even the village idiot would be able to connect the dots. But if they limit themselves to putting up strategic roadblocks that serve to prevent any single entity to gain a regional toehold on the market, then they have accomplished their goal without raising any red flags.
As you pointed out, the window of opportunity for Wi-Fi in this application is closing rapidly. The smart players aren't making large capital investments in a soon-to-be obsolete technology. But they are counting on municipalities to grandfather-in incumbent Wi-Fi franchisees into any new technology deployments, rather than go through the process all over again every time a new wireless standard comes along. | |
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John Galt
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Oceanside, OR
| Re: Educate me said by Time4aNAP :The smart players aren't making large capital investments in a soon-to-be obsolete technology. I hardly think that WiFi is going to be obsolete soon...
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A is A | |
| | | | | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| Re: Educate me said by John Galt :I hardly think that WiFi is going to be obsolete soon... As a metropolitan WISP technology? We'll have to see how WiMAX and other 802.16 standards fare in real life. But as it stands in Chicago, it's Canopy® ~6 to Wi-Fi 0. Wi-Fi MANs have been announced with much ballyhoo, but not one has become operational. Heck, the ad hoc WLANs put up by hobbyists have carried more packets than any franchise operation has! | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Educate me said by morbo :St. Louis didn't bend over enough and supply adequate lube. It's the American corporate way. How many other companies (and sport teams for that matter) have used this same extortion technique to pry a contract or tax break or stadium out of the locals? Not saying it's the right thing to do, but it's hardly a new thing.
Let us know if you find anything.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by AR :So what's ATT's strategic objective out of this? Capturing market share? Simple: This move is to BLOCK competition. If they own the city-wide Wi-Fi Franchise, nobody else can come in and out compete them.
So they can either get ppl on the WiFi or on broadband DSL. Either way, they win, and competition is nipped in the bud.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Educate me Yep. Charter is no competition at all.
It's funny, really. AT&T finally starts to "get it" and the same people who whine about them not deploying {fill in technology du jour} whine when they do. How is this an exclusive franchise?
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| Re: Educate me said by RadioDoc :AT&T finally starts to "get it"... Don't believe for a minute that the new AT&T "gets it". As an Ameritech customer yourself, surely you must remember that Ameritech's own DSL program never amounted to anything more than that trial market in Ann Arbor, MI.
And when SBC bought Ameritech, their strategy was to kill off the DSL business by charging DSL carriers retail rates for a local loop. They darn near succeeded!
If it wasn't for cable, we'd be back to using POTS modems, and SBC/AT&T would be putting back those old line conditioning filters, hoping to kill that off as well. | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL | Re: Educate me There is no "new". It's the same old SBC.
They can't control WiFi like they do copper pairs since there it nothing to own.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| | | | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| Re: New-Old Name, Same SBC said by RadioDoc :There is no "new". It's the same old SBC. Ain't that the truth! As hated as the pre-divestiture AT&T was, SBC makes that group look like saints. Hence my remark distinguishing between the two.
They can't control WiFi like they do copper pairs since there it nothing to own. There's the franchise. Even if they never send a single packet of their own, that franchise gives them the legal right to sue every mom & pop WISP out of existence. It's destructive, it's spiteful, it's bad PR, and it's what SBC does best. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Educate me They can't control WiFi like they do copper pairs since there it nothing to own. Ah, but if they have a city-wide franchise can't they effectively control Wi-Fi to the area because of the spectrum? You couldn't have another operator using the same frequencies because they would interfere with each other and effectively jam the service.
So by becoming the "official" provider with the city license you in effect control that spectrum and block a competitor from using it.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL | Re: Educate me So I'll ask again: Is it an exclusive franchise?
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by RadioDoc :Yep. Charter is no competition at all. It maintains the status quo however and prevents a third operator from coming in and competing... In this way they can maintain pricing as is. In my area, you basically have two broadband options. Cox Cable HSI, or at&t DSL. Technically these two services are in competition but the pricing tiers and the levels of service you can get are fairly similar. If a major third party (ie a Citywide Wi-Fi network for example) came into being it could upset this balance and cause prices to drop or service options to improve. This would be negative to the profit margin and in at&t's eyes a bad thing.
Really they kill two birds with one stone. They get to "test" a new service AND block a competitor from entering the market... To them it would appear to be a slam-dunk. From a consumer standpoint, I'd rather see a 3rd competitor come onto the scene.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
| | xrobertcmx
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Sterling, VA
clubs:  | They also are not likely to offer equal speeds. The DSL will be faster.
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Retaking our country one election at a time. | |
| rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Visitors get 20 hours per month Does anyone know how they track this? Is it by MAC address? Can't you cheat that? | |
| | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| Re: Visitors get 20 hours per month said by rradina :Does anyone know how they track this? Is it by MAC address? Can't you cheat that? They don't, no and yes. 
Because it's not operational, this "feature" exists only in people's imaginations right now. If the system ever becomes operational, my guess is that you'd probably have to open an account and/or install proprietary software to be able to access the network. With the first method, the login time are tracked by username. With the second method, some kind of UUID would probably be used to identify the device. That, combined with an issued license code could allow a Microsoft-style machine ID system that would make the effort required to get 20 free hours counterproductive. | |
| | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Visitors get 20 hours per month I thought it might be by MAC address. I was in the New Orleans Hilton a few weeks ago and they charged for wireless access. I couldn't get the authorization page to work so I called their tech support 800 number. The person on the other end asked me for my MAC address. I provided it and after a few moments, I was on-line. They billed it to my room but the charges did not show up. (They'll probably roll in on my credit card later.) | |
| | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| Re: MAC Address That's an astute observation, and in fact MAC addresses are used to identify nodes in a Wi-Fi network. The problem comes when MAC address spoofing comes into play.
Every Ethernet port is supposed have a MAC address that is totally unique, the idea being that there will be no possibility of conflict. It's a great idea, of course. Then again, so are other ideas that use MAC address spoofing for practical purposes, such as auto-failover. When flash ROM became commonplace, so did the ability to assign any MAC address to an Ethernet card. This practice continued with 802.11, where there are fewer practical uses for MAC spoofing, and more potential for abuse.
For a WLAN in the hospitality industry, using MAC addresses to identify a machine is usually enough security. The worst that could happen is that someone could sniff, then spoof your MAC in order to gain free access to the WLAN. Because few people stay very long at a hotel, the theft of services is of little concern to the hotel. It's just bad for you if you should try to use the network while the spoofer is on, since there's no easy way to decide which is the good machine.
Now when it comes to a company that's steeped in monopolistic tradition, and knows no other position than that of total control, MAC address security simply will not do. No, they're going to implement the most Draconian security strategy that they can manage. Right now we can only speculate. And, as I said before, I'm skeptical that it will ever get built, at least as a Wi-Fi network. But it should be interesting to see how cities cope with the many thousands of people hoping to crack their WMAN. | |
| kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
clubs: | Cool ........ Porn at at Busch Stadium ....... New meaning to family entertainment .... | |
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AT&T To Offer Citywide St. Louis Wi-Fi
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