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AT&T Plans 2008 3G Expansion
As LTE (4G) trials in Europe reach 300Mbps
AT&T today announced they have plans this year to deploy their third generation wireless broadband service to an additional eighty cities. According to the telco, their 2008 push will involve the addition of 1,500 new cell sites country-wide. The next deployment push will bring AT&T 3G service to 350 leading U.S. markets by the end of this year, including all of the top 100 U.S. cities. A press release also touches on HSUPA upgrades:
quote:
Other plans for the new year include completion of the nation's first High Speed Uplink Packet Access (HSUPA)-enabled network by the middle of the year. The AT&T 3G network now delivers typical downlink speeds ranging between 600 and 1,400 Kilobits per second (Kbps), as well as faster uplink speeds, ranging from 500 and 800 Kilobits per second (Kbps). The faster uplink speeds allow AT&T's HSUPA-enabled laptop users to more quickly send large files and take full advantage of the latest interactive Internet and business applications.
"We're also planning for the future by establishing a clear path to a 4G network that will meet the needs of our customers for years to come," says AT&T Wireless boss Ralph de la Vega, speaking about the company's plan to embrace LTE. Speaking of LTE, the LTE/SAE Trial Initiative this week announced that prototype LTE systems using 4x4 Multiple Input Multiple Output (MIMO) antennas achieved download speeds faster than 300Mbps:
quote:
The latest laboratory and early field tests on prototype LTE systems have confirmed that baseline devices can achieve download speeds exceeding 100 Mbps, and high performance systems using 4x4 MIMO antennas can push this to beyond 300Mbps. LSTI members have also demonstrated substantial improvements to network response times, which are essential to give the 'always on' experience and for latency-sensitive applications such as interactive gaming and mobile television. This data is for isolated cells with a single user.
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xenophon
join:2007-09-17

3 edits

xenophon

Member

ATT probably couldn't do 300Mbps

I assume ATT would put LTE at the 700mhz spectrum they acquired. They only have 12Mhz spectrum in each market, which might be able to get 60Mbps-120Mbps if I recall (still great, but not like the 1Gbps theoretical max Sprint can eventually do with WiMAX 802.16m with the near 100Mhz spectrum they have per market).

Unless they have available nationwide spectrum in some other band, I think they are limited to 12Mhz in the 700mhz space.

ATT seems to have trouble providing enough backhaul too. Their HSPA performance is not exceeding EVDO in the real world even though the theoretical limits are higher.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: ATT probably couldn't do 300Mbps

Its possible that they'd use LTE @ 700MHz, but I don't think they have enough spectrum (unless they win some during auctions).
I would expect that long term, AT&T would want to use spectrum for LTE thats compatible with other countries for roaming, as its a real cash cow. Currently there are ~200 million UMTS/HSDPA subs globally, and ~100 million EVDO.

I don't expect any real LTE outside of a large metro for at least a couple of years.

As far as HSPA performance, the average user probably doesn't care for 1.4Mbps vs. 2Mbps as long as they have service where/when they need it. On that part, AT&T is way behind.

The 700MHz spectrum would be great for rural areas though.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

Re: ATT probably couldn't do 300Mbps

Yeah, a good point that ATT probably wouldn't use 700mhz for LTE since it's not globally available. But where else would they put LTE? Is there enough bandwidth in the GSM/HSPA spectrum currently used?

If they do use LTE at 700mhz, they'll of course have to supply phones with radios that support 700mhz LTE as well as other spectrum used globally.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: ATT probably couldn't do 300Mbps

Well, technically AT&T has a lot of spectrum in many markets.
Many markets have Cell A or B AND typically 10MHz of PCS.
Some markets there's cell A, B and PCS (parts of Texas and, if I'm not mistaken eastern Florida).

I suspect that some of the 700MHz spectrum purchased will complement some of that newly auctioned 700MHz spectrum, however will be primarily used for U.S. based. Roaming for now will have to remain GSM/UMTS on 850/1900, where devices and roaming agreements exist.

100MHz of 2.5GHz is obviously a little gold mine, as far as spectrum goes... Sprint has just got to get it deployed and start selling the business to get its revenue stream rolling.

RadioDoc

join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL

RadioDoc to xenophon

to xenophon
Don't forget that they are decommissioning a lot of AMPS and TDMA equipment this month, which should open up some space.
wombough
join:2001-08-30
Albany, GA

wombough to en102

Member

to en102
they have plenty from aloha they just bought and was approved recently!

NOCMan
MadMacHatter
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

NOCMan to xenophon

Premium Member

to xenophon
With both you can sacrifice speed for distance. So they tell it to never allow above X and therefore it can provide greater coverage. If they uppped the speed they'd lose coverage to an extent.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

AT&T Aleady Expanding 3G

The 3G area around DC now extends as far north as Etchison, MD (about 15 miles north of Rockville). This went live right after 01/02/2008. Prior to that, it ended just north of Derwood.

Stefania
Jezu Chryste, Kubi
Premium Member
join:2003-03-17
Chicago, IL

3 edits

Stefania

Premium Member

Re: AT&T Aleady Expanding 3G

Going West it ends just before Centreville.

Edit: and just before Woodbridge going South. Not sure about EAST (sorry about that, I'll get my directions right one of these days).

kgeier82
@ubalt.edu

kgeier82

Anon

Re: AT&T Aleady Expanding 3G

had 3g on a blackjack 2 in Westminster, MD. Pretty far from DC market.

kinda funny how the ATT map doesnt say westminster is a 3g area. i would think theyd update them quickly after deployment...
RichNice
join:2003-01-09
Bowie, MD

RichNice

Member

Re: AT&T Aleady Expanding 3G

I've had 3G out here in Columbia, MD for a minute....being int the Baltimore/DC corridor, that isn't a surprise though.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102 to kgeier82

Premium Member

to kgeier82
said by kgeier82 :

had 3g on a blackjack 2 in Westminster, MD. Pretty far from DC market.
DC and Baltimore are covered by a single contiguous 3G zone. But it is funny you mention Westminster... they must be specifically trying to avoid me.

Stefania
Jezu Chryste, Kubi
Premium Member
join:2003-03-17
Chicago, IL

Stefania

Premium Member

Hopefully they upgrade network capacity too...

It's been terrible lately calling people from different parts of the country and being dropped 5 times in a row, and not due to bad signal.

Maybe this will push Apple to release a 3G iPhone a little faster, too?
majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Medford, NY

majortom1029

Member

Do not count on lte for a while

3g isnt even available here in suffol kcount except for 10 feet on either siide of 110. We are only 1 hour away from nyc where they have 3g. You would think with all the stars and rich people in suffolk county att would have deployed 3g to all of long island.

IF att deploys lte like they have been doing 3g then dont expect it till 2015 or 2020 the earliest.

ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

ninjatutle

Member

Wireless wireless wireless

Wireless is the future. Not fibre to the casa.

300Mbps is pretty sweet.

alchav
join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT

alchav

Member

Re: Wireless wireless wireless

said by ninjatutle:

Wireless is the future. Not fibre to the casa.

300Mbps is pretty sweet.
Wireless does have it's applications, but it will never replace FTTH. 300Mbps might be sweet, but this is under ideal conditions and probably a few feet away. If you want HDTV, Phone, and Broadband Fiber is the only way to go.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102 to ninjatutle

Member

to ninjatutle
Wireless is good, however, there are limits (there aint no such thing as a free lunch)

300 Mbps = SHARED, and assuming no interference
That 300Mbps requires a lot of spectrum, and capacity will be limited to distance (i.e. how many users / distance).

Wireless is technically much cheaper technology to deploy, with the exception of the cost of licensing the spectrum itself.

It would be nice to have something like AT&T replace its 'Uverse' FTTN/VDSL with its 700MHz spectrum with a pico cell where VRADs exist today.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK to ninjatutle

Premium Member

to ninjatutle
At only .75 cents a kilobyte!


factchecker
@cox.net

factchecker

Anon

Sticking with EVDO

Until ATT and the other GSM carriers start rolling something out that can smoke EVDO, I'll happily stick with the better technology - EVDO.

When we start seeing widespread WiMAX and LTE deployments, all bets might be off. LTE is looking pretty impressive.

DaveDude
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

DaveDude

Member

Re: Sticking with EVDO

said by factchecker :

Until ATT and the other GSM carriers start rolling something out that can smoke EVDO, I'll happily stick with the better technology - EVDO.

When we start seeing widespread WiMAX and LTE deployments, all bets might be off. LTE is looking pretty impressive.
With a name like factchecker, i would think you would at least look at wikipedia. UMTS is what all GSM carriers are deploying. UMTS can send higher data rates then evdo, and do voice simultaneously. Verizon a EVDO carrier is going LTE, which is the evolution of GSM. CDMA is history. UMTS (LTE) is the future.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co ··· tandards
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

Re: Sticking with EVDO

LTE may be the future of carriers and HSPA specs may theoretically perform better than EVDO, but EVDO currently is outperforming HSPA in the real world tests and has far more coverage in the US.

The OP was talking about the now, not the future. An in the now, EVDO is king in the US for mobile broadband and probably will be for a few years.

I hope WiMAX happens though. LTE is pro-carrier control, WiMAX is more open and pro-consumer.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102 to DaveDude

Member

to DaveDude
In the U.S., CDMA/EVDO does have a significant presence, as well as CDMA/EVDO in Canada. In many areas, EVDO has multiple carrier presence in the U.S. and Canada, while UMTS/HSDPA has significantly less.
Globally, UMTS/HSDPA is double that of EVDO by subscribers, and much larger footprint.

factchecker
@cox.net

factchecker to DaveDude

Anon

to DaveDude
said by DaveDude:

With a name like factchecker, i would think you would at least look at wikipedia. UMTS is what all GSM carriers are deploying. UMTS can send higher data rates then evdo, and do voice simultaneously. Verizon a EVDO carrier is going LTE, which is the evolution of GSM. CDMA is history. UMTS (LTE) is the future.
Yes, I have looked at Wikipedia, thank you, however, those numbers aren't the speeds you are going to see right now. What you see listed are maximum, theoretical speeds.

For example, the HSDPA and HSUPA speeds that are currently being deployed are not faster than EVDO Rev. A. The option to increase the speed that customers can get is there, but it isn't being used.

Additionally, having used both EVDO Rev. A and HSDPA, EVDO still comes out on top.

Ergo, the statement I make still stands. Until the GSM providers start rolling out speeds that beat EVDO, I'll stick with EVDO.
wombough
join:2001-08-30
Albany, GA

wombough to DaveDude

Member

to DaveDude
LTE has nothing to do with GSM. Nothing at all. It has very little with CDMA. ANd EVDO currently is faster then any UMTS deployed here in the US. As sprint and verizon and alltel are seeing 3mbs speeds in most areas.
su719
join:2006-01-29
Livingston, NJ

su719

Member

350 markets

AT&T Please just cover the NY metro market before you expand to more. Unless you are in Manhattan, the coverage is swiss cheese. That is not coverage.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: 350 markets

Yep, ATT hasn't expanded their 3G in like 3 years. ****ing abandoned is all I can say. iPhone uses EDGE so why bother with 3G? Suppressing technology and progress like always.
gworkman
join:2005-10-18
Las Vegas, NV

gworkman

Member

What is a "Market"

They state 160 "markets" are served. They list several suburbs of Phoenix as "markets". That seems a bit misleading.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

Re: What is a "Market"

said by gworkman:

They state 160 "markets" are served. They list several suburbs of Phoenix as "markets". That seems a bit misleading.
ATT stopped reporting million pops coverage with HSPA but they once said about 160m pops covered and it's likely more than that now, but peppered. Verizon last reported 210m coverage. Sprint says 230m now covered with EVDO, including roaming on Alltel EVDO. (Verizon doesn't roam EVDO). In terms of area, Sprint/Alltel combined have huge EVDO coverage in some states. ATT has a long way to go to get 3G coverage up to speed.

»content.alltel.com/busin ··· onal.gif

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102 to gworkman

Member

to gworkman
Yeah - I remember when they deployed in SoCal.
'Los Angeles, East Los Angeles, Glendale, Burbank, Pasadena, Long Beach, Anaheim, Ontario, Pomona, Malibu'...
Sounds like a lot, however most of those are suburbs of L.A., and at the time, those cities had less than 50% coverage.

RR Conductor
Ridin' the rails
Premium Member
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
ARRIS SB6183
Netgear R7000

RR Conductor

Premium Member

Not much 3G here

We have four carriers here (RSA 344, Mendocino and Lake Counties-NW CA), Edge Wireless (AT&T Affiliate, was recently bought out by AT&T, will be merged into them by summer), Verizon, US Cellular and Metro PCS. Of those, only Edge Wireless has 3G, and it's only in one town, Ukiah here in Mendocino County. Verizon still hasn't turned on their EVDO, neither has US Cellular and I don't know Metro PCS's plans.

iLive4Fusion
Premium Member
join:2006-07-13

iLive4Fusion

Premium Member

Bring it on

My second house in the boondocks on the outskirts of Birmingham looses 3G service on my AT&T phone halfway down there. If the one tower that covers Oak Grove had 3G it would help with capacity so much. I wish their coverage could match Nextel over here though :/