AT&T Cutting 12,000 JobsFour percent of their work force... 09:39AM Thursday Dec 04 2008 by Karl Bodetags: business · trouble · AT&T Southeast · AT&T Midwest · AT&T SouthwestTipped by ptrowski  Confirming what many managers were privately worried about back in October, AT&T today announced that the telco will be eliminating 12,000 jobs, or about four percent of the telcom giant's work force. According to an AT&T statement, the layoffs are a result of economic pressures, a changing business mix, and a more streamlined organizational structure. That's code for the economy sucks, the credit market sucks, their landline business is dying, new DSL subscriber additions are dismal, and they continue to purge redundant positions created by the BellSouth merger. According to the telco, they'll be reducing their 2009 capital expenditure levels: In response to these business and economic factors, AT&T plans to reduce its 2009 capital expenditures from 2008 levels. Capital plans for 2009 are being finalized now and specific guidance will be provided when the company releases its fourth quarter results in late January. Whether that slows the deployment speed for U-Verse remains to be seen. AT&T announced 4,500 job cuts back in April as well, many related to their dying landline business. The telco insists they continue to add jobs in their wireless and video business units. In their statement, AT&T notes that many non-management employees affected by these reductions have a guaranteed job offer under union contracts, while all employees will receive severance "in accordance with management policies or union agreements."
Related:- AT&T Begins Rollout of Starbucks Wi-Fi
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- AT&T: Usage-Based Pricing 'Inevitable'
- Is AT&T Hinting At Usage-Based Pricing This Fall?
- AT&T To Pay $17 Million For USF Over-Charging
- AT&T Stops Offering Flickr Pro Accounts
- AT&T Looking For Femtocell Testers
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Dogfather
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Laguna Hills, CA | And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't This is what happened in 1982, 1992 and even a bit in 2001...these types of companies (technical) dump good chunks of their skilled labor and then are completely screwed when the economy recovers. | |
|  | jc100
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December 4th, @10:07AM
| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't Well 2001 was a recession but nothing compared to this one. I wouldn't remember the 1982 one, I was a baby heh. However, the data on 1982 stuck us at 10 percent unemployment. Will we get that high? It might very well happen if this trend continues. I am certain the november stats for unemployment are going to rise to prob 6.8 and maybe even 7. Will this continue to the 9 or 10 percent mark? Time tells. It all depends if things get sorted. While people say this is the worst since the great depression, this is probably not all that truthful. I mean we do have a credit crunch, housing crunch, financial crunch, and many factors at play. Unemployment wise though, 1982 saw 10 percent (as stated) and the Great Depression had 25 percent. So time tells where this one ranks in the scheme of things. | |
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ib50MbSoon
Formerly TwoKDialup
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| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't said by jc100 :However, the data on 1982 stuck us at 10 percent unemployment. Will we get that high? It might very well happen if this trend continues. True but back then we suffered with Jimmy Carter's 22% 'misery index'. 
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misery_ind···onomics) | |
| | | | jc100
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December 4th, @10:49AM
| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't Actually, Regan ran things in 1982. Wikipedia isn't a source. Regan took office in 1982 and if you so look at bls.gov, it goes to show that Reganomics were a failure, and all years under Regan saw MASSIVE unemployment.
January 20, 1977 – January 20, 1981 - Carter's term
January 20, 1981 – January 20, 1989 - Regan's term
Now go here and type in the years 1970-1989
»data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet
Now only will you see Carter inherited similar numbers when he took office, but they began to fall significantly during his administration. Towards the end, numbers resettled back at pre Carter figures. However, it wasn't until the second and third year of Regan Administration late 1982 / 1983 we saw double digits. Reganomics sucked. Star wars, and his whole plan was a failure. Carter is not to blame for this one. | |
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Alpine
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Atlanta, GA | Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't Wow... Can't remember the last time someone actually defended the Carter administration. There's a reason for that. | |
| | | | | | jc100
join:2002-04-10 | Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't Well facts speak for themselves, now don't they. | |
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Dogfather
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December 4th, @01:11PM
| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't More like your OMISSION of facts like the ERTA speak for themselves. | |
| | | | | | | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
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| said by jc100 :Well facts speak for themselves, now don't they. The fact is it's pretty hard to listen to someone that can't even spell the former President's name right. | |
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pnh102
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| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't said by Sammer :The fact is it's pretty hard to listen to someone that can't even spell the former President's name right. He could be talking about Donald Regan, who was President Reagan's Treasury Secretary and later Chief of Staff. 
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Dogfather
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Laguna Hills, CA | Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't That or he could simply be a product of publik edukashun. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | jc100
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| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't Numbers don't lie, now do they. Obviously, the numbers speak volumes here. Nixon and Ford did a Horrible job. Carter inherited that bad job, as you look at the numbers. Towards the end of his administration, things reverted back to pre Carter Numbers. Yet, when regan took office, those numbers SOARED. Proof is in the pudding. | |
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wifi4milez
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| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't said by jc100 :Numbers don't lie, now do they. Obviously, the numbers speak volumes here. Nixon and Ford did a Horrible job. Carter inherited that bad job, as you look at the numbers. Towards the end of his administration, things reverted back to pre Carter Numbers. Yet, when regan took office, those numbers SOARED. Proof is in the pudding. Alternatively, one could look at the thousands of other studies out there that prove you have no idea what you are talking about. Furthermore, anyone who was not in diapers during the time period in question will laugh in your face at those assertions.
Real economic growth averaged 3.2 percent during the Reagan years versus 2.8 percent during the Ford-Carter years and 2.1 percent during the Bush-Clinton years.
Real median family income grew by $4,000 during the Reagan period after experiencing no growth in the pre-Reagan years; it experienced a loss of almost $1,500 in the post-Reagan years.
Interest rates, inflation, and unemployment fell faster under Reagan than they did immediately before or after his presidency.
»www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1120
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Yaco
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Allendale, NJ | Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't ............... And with deregulation and the credit crisis for the past 8 years we are in "Crapville"  .
It goes to show we have no long term plan.. for any party | |
| | | | | viperlmw
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| said by jc100 :Actually, Regan ran things in 1982. Wikipedia isn't a source. Regan took office in 1982 and if you so look at bls.gov, it goes to show that Reganomics were a failure, and all years under Regan saw MASSIVE unemployment. January 20, 1977 – January 20, 1981 - Carter's term January 20, 1981 – January 20, 1989 - Regan's term Now go here and type in the years 1970-1989 » data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServletNow only will you see Carter inherited similar numbers when he took office, but they began to fall significantly during his administration. Towards the end, numbers resettled back at pre Carter figures. However, it wasn't until the second and third year of Regan Administration late 1982 / 1983 we saw double digits. Reganomics sucked. Star wars, and his whole plan was a failure. Carter is not to blame for this one. QFT! | |
| | | | | footballdude
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| said by jc100 :Reganomics sucked. Star wars, and his whole plan was a failure. Carter is not to blame for this one. As someone that wasn't a baby in 1982 and lived through the times in question, I can tell you that you don't have a clue. The nation SUFFERED under Ford and Carter and recovered greatly under Reagan. It wasn't until George Bush the elder foolishly raised taxes that we started draining the economy again.
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| | | | | | jc100
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December 4th, @12:51PM
| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't Wonderful. Yet, the numbers don't lie. It wasn't until Late 1982 / Mid 1983.. That was almost 2+ Full years into Regans Term, did the economy hit double digits. Whose fault is that? Obviously not Carters. Look at the trend and numbers for yourself. They are the proof int he pudding. Regan was a failure. No matter how you slice it. Regan had star wars. Regan had the Iran Contra Crisis. Regan Had Oliver North who sold weapons to Iran. Regan had the CIA selling drugs in South America to Fund the Sandistas. Worst of all, HE GAVE US our first trillion dollar deficit and record unemployment. I see failure and a precursor to George Bush Jr in Regan. As for Sr. Failure transcends down the blood line. Like father Like son. However, at least Sr. didnt botch things nearly as bad as Jr. | |
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wifi4milez
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| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't said by Dogfather :You ignore what was going on those first two years. Reagan faced an uphill battle against the Democratic controlled Congress getting our tax code changed...about 2 years (late into 1981). And of course it took another year or so for those changes to fix the Carter disaster. You should probably actually learn the whole story instead of picking some selective numbers to copy and paste. Google is your friend, specifically the ERTA. Dont even waste the effort arguing with him. The simple fact that he is attempting to spout the "benefits" of the Carter era (especially when compared to Reagan's terms) immediately dashes whatever limited credibility he had to begin with. There is a reason that Reagan is almost universally admired (among all parties), whereas finding a person who still supports Carter is like finding a needle in a haystack.
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| | | | | | | | | jc100
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December 4th, @02:04PM
| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't Regan is universally admired? Really?
- Iran Contra Crisis with Oliver North
- Cia Selling Drugs in South America to fund the Sandistas
- Star Wars
- First Trillion Dollar Debt in U.S. History
- Reganomics
Please.. Enlighten me how such failures promote admiration. There's no needle in a haystack. There's a lot of mess, and not a big enough mop... HARD NUMBERS from BLS.GOV paint a picture, and you just can't face that head on.
As for blame, funny. Clinton had a Republican Congress and got plenty done. Seems to me if Regan was such a man to inspire awe and admiration, he could have pulled the flock together. Instead, he sank this country into a crisis.
P.S. People liked Regan as he was a Charmer and for his past Acting Jobs. Just as American's liked Bush. He struck them as a guy who they could drink a beer with. Doesn't mean Regan or Bush were good leaders. Just they had charming skills. Plenty of Dictators and Mass Murderers in history were charmers, too. Want to sell me on how they were good people, since they won favor of many?
Try again. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | jc100
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December 4th, @02:18PM
| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't Fixing the economy? How? By sinking us in OUR FIRST trillion dollar deficit? Wasting Money on Star Wars? Selling Drugs in South America while we Funded the Sandistas? So on and So forth. He fixed nothing. Matter of fact, prior to regan, PEOPLE OWED US MONEY. Regan sank us in debt to others.
As for collapsing the soviet union, that's been a catch 22. On one hand, we brought down the soviet empire. On the other, we probably would have been better off letting it stand. Many of those countries are far from free, are breeding grounds for fundamentalists, and live under worse dictatorships than the USSR served. Let's face it, we didnt have those "Stans" training terrorists when the USSR ran them. | |
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Dogfather
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Laguna Hills, CA | Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't You have zero clue what you're talking about. Yeah, Ukraine was better off under Soviet tyranny, uh huh. I guess East Germany is worse off now as well.
And sure guy, there was no terrorism before 1991. | |
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December 4th, @02:37PM
| quote:
- Iran Contra Crisis with Oliver North
- Cia Selling Drugs in South America to fund the Sandistas
- Star Wars
- First Trillion Dollar Debt in U.S. History
- Reganomics
More liberal revisionist history.
Contras were fighting Soviet socialist expansionism as were we. Of course the Democrats in Congress loved socialists so they wrote the unconstitutional Boland Amendment to try and stop Reagan from combating the Soviets. To circumvent this we sold obsolete HAWK missiles to Iran who then in turn funneled the money to the Contras. The Boland Amendment was later repealed rather than Congress allowing the embarrassment of it getting to the Supreme Court where it would have been bitch slapped hard. Simply put, it ultimately was not within the Constitutional authority of Congress who have stopped the Iran-Contra transaction and all the secret BS wouldn't have been necessary had Congress understood separation of powers.
CIA didn't fund the Sandinistas, they "allowed" the Contras, who were rebels against the Marxist Sandinistas to drug traffic. The CIA has done this stuff since WWII, starting in 1947 and continuing through the CLINTON administration (go google Eugenio Molina Osorio or Gen. Ramon Gullien Davila).
Star Wars is what broke the back of the Soviet Union. The Soviets spent so much on military spending trying to fight advanced US technology like ABM and Star Wars research that their social side was left in ruins leading to the rise of Gorbachev and other reformers who saw no way to "beat" the U.S. militarily and basically "surrendered" to Reagan, ending the Cold War.
Trillion dollar debt? Guess you forgot who was running Congress. Let's not forget that Reagan's tax cuts resulted in INCREASED revenues to the U.S. Treasury. The Democratic controlled Congress just spent it all and more, like a bunch of drunken sailors. You don't remember the 80's but the Democrats did in the 80's what the Republican Congress did in the 2000's...spend spend spend.
Reaganomics was a HUGE success that got us out of the Carter disaster...lower taxes, more jobs AND increased Treasury revenues. As much as liberals want to deny the simple fact of life, trickle-down economics works. People don't get jobs from poor people.
You should actually open a history book instead of spouting socialist talking points. | |
| | | | | | | | | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
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| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't Ah yes, More right ring Falsehoods.
A) You enjoy socialism bud. You got hospitals in the U.S., Roads in the U.S., Schools, Emergency services, etc. Those are ALL SOCIALIZED. You pay a small portion of the taxes, along with everyone else. Those go into a collective pot, and are dished out to contracts to carry out said services. Yet, being you are NOT the only one building the roads, funding the schools, etc, you are socialized by the 300 million other tax payers. How about this. You pay for the FULL COST of teacher salaries. Say there are 50 teachers and 400 students. Instead of asking the city and other tax payers to foot the bill, the parents of those 400 students should pay the 5 or 6 million it would cost to run that school in a given year. Lets see 6 million / 400 = about 15,000 PER FAMILY in this instance. I like that idea. So get off your socialism soap box. Unless you are paying for everything out of pocket, America is as much socialized as ANY OTHER NATION. You right wingers have just stupefied you into believing you should see LITTLE RETURN on your money so big business can get all the subsidies.. Farming.. for one ay?
As for Soviet Expansion.. We had McCarthyism / Red Scare/ Vietnam etc,. You know how these all ended? In absolute failures. Obviously, the world's not going to end with socialism. It takes place here in America. See above. More right ring stupidity and propaganda.
Laughable is your response to the Iran Contra Crisis. Oliver North was Convicted SMART ONE of selling Arms to Iran. Do you read history, or is history something your type ignore?
Regarding the sandistas, the CIA admitted to selling drugs to fund them. Watch the Movie American War on Drugs or google anything regarding these events. Obviously, you're making up of history suits you better. To prove this point, we had no problems with RUTHLESS DICTACTORS like Noriega running the show. We just didn't like he ran a side business and stopped being our puppet. As long as Dictators like Batista, Noriega, etc do as they are told. We don't care what happens to the people. Just so long as our agenda is carried out. Once again, you FAIL.
Stars wars broke up the soviet union? No, an ARMS RACE BROKE UP the soviet union. Star wars was a BILLION DOLLAR FAILURE that didn't do anything but squander american tax payer dollars. Spin doctor much?
Trillion dollar debt? Guess you forgot who was running Congress - Just cause Congress Approves, doesn't mean the President has to spend it =). Nice try though. Regan had no qualms about using the money and sinking us into debt, as much as Congress .
Funny Enough, these fiscally conservative Republicans.. Regan, Bush Sr, Bush Jr have added to our debt. Clinton had it under control. Funny ay? Bush Jr alone has added 6 trillion out of the 10.
So now, has history and your civics teacher failed you much? Your take on anything regarding history and reality are flawed. | |
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edit:
December 4th, @06:19PM
| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't Hospitals and roads aren't "socialism" by any stretch of the imagination (unless you found out about a universal heathcare program we don't know about or don't have to pay car registration or license fees). As for the red scare, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about. It was Kennedy that got us into Vietnam and in typical gov't fashion, politicians tried to run the war instead of letting the military do it. It's the same mess that prolonged the Iraq war...politics and poll-taking
Oliver North? You mean the guy Reagan FIRED? And you're the one in need of an education. He wasn't convicted for selling arms to Iran. He was convicted of accepting an illegal gratuity, destruction of documents and obstruction of a congressional inquiry and in 1990 all of those convictions were VACATED. Much like Martha Stewart, North wasn't busted for ANYTHING the Congress was trying to bust him for. He got temporarily busted for what he did during the Democrat run witch-hunt. It's the same which-hunt bullcrap that Republicans did to Clinton...busted him for perjury, not anything he actually did outside the courtroom.
Yep, I'm going to get my "facts" from "American War" instead of actual history. Of course you ignore 50 years of CIA involvement in this and act as if the CIA did it just this one time under direct instruction from Reagan. What a joke.
What to you think propelled the 1980's arms race genius? It was STAR WARS, and obviously you don't even know what Star Wars was. SDI was more than space based weapons. It was KE weapons, advanced missile launch detection systems, ABMs...it was a comprehensive program designed to make the increasing accurate Soviet heavy ballistic missiles obsolete and a lot of these programs are in use today under the BMDO. Without ballistic missiles and the survivability of the (at the time) new LGM-118A (MX) missiles, the Soviets were sunk so they spent and spent and spent on increasing their military capabilities through conventional as well as nuclear means in hopes of overwhelming SDI to hit Minuteman III and MX sites and it broke their backs.
Don't believe it? What went on in the late 1980's is EXACTLY what is going on now. The US is deploying minimal ballistic missile defenses in Europe and the Russians are spending a TON of cash to insure they can overwhelm it. SDI at maturity would have been BMD x 1000 and Gorbachev KNEW he didn't have the money to counter this. Their social infrastructure continued to collapse because of military spending in the face of SDI. So he for all intents and purposes surrendered and SDI was subsequently scaled back during the 1990's to the BMDO we see today.
Yeah, let's lay all the blame for Congressional spending on Reagan and let Congress off scott free.
As for Clinton...for the first two years with Clinton and a democratic congress, the budget was a disaster. Only after the Democrats got their asses kicked in 1994 and Republicans actually controlled both houses of Congress did the budget come under control. It's very convenient of you to forget about the "government shut downs" because Clinton wanted to spend a ton of money and Gingrich and the Republicans were saying no. Clinton and the liberal media demonized Gingrich for not wanting to blow up gov't with tons of new and expanding socialist programs. Convenient you forget about how libs said Gingrich wanted to starve children because he cut the increase in the school lunch programs...no didn't cut, just a cut in the increase. It was only when Republicans turned into raving socialist Democrats in 2000 that crap turned upside-down.
But thanks for your fiction, it was an interesting fairy-tale. | |
| | | | | | | | | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
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| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't You're post is amusing. Can we say the worst right wing take on "facts" known to man?
Hospital, roads, Schools, Medical Research (57 million tax payer money spent last year), Emergency services are SOCIALISM. Are you paying the FULL COST OUT OF POCKET. Merriam Webster defines Socialism AS:
"any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods"
Roads, Schools, Hospitals (public), Medical Research, and the LIKE ARE SOCIALISM. WE neither OWN THEM, they are PAID with COLLECTIVE MONEY, and EVERYONE'S tax dollars go to fund. You and I don't have a choice how the government distributes our cash. OUCH... WRONG o so WRONG.
So basically my above just shot down most of your post. Really has to hurt. Even the dictionary and common logic proves you wrong.
- Oliver North. Says a lot about Regan's Character. Matter of Fact Regan knew about it and used North as a fall boy. History again. I know, it doesn't like much.
- American War on Drugs was a good Movie. I'm not using it as a source. I use historical fact, which you know nothing about. As I said above, Regan was Complicit with North. All history points to him being fully aware of the events.
- Vietnam under Kennedy? Right wingers don't know history. Vietnam started in 1959. Kennedy wasn't in office then. You might check that thing called HISTORY. Before it was a war.. it was a Conflict. OUCH. As for the military running the war, that's how you get genocide. I guess you don't realize all the genocides that happen when the Military has complete control. Once again, you and history ARE NOT FRIENDS.
- Star wars Was a failure. I'm not going to argue with someone who gets facts from Fox News.
- I blame Regan as much as I blame Congress. Congress sent him the money he spent it. Bipartisan blame goes around now doesn't it. Then again, Bush Sr, Bush Jr all spent wildly and got us into massive debt.
As for Clinton, sorry bud, he BALANCED the budget. His spending was never wild and unchecked. Even when the Dems ran things. He didn't spend like those Republicans. Only difference between a Democrat and Republican anyway is Dems Tax, Republicans Borrow. Borrowing is far worse as it causes inflation, puts us into debt with Rogue nations (china, russia, etc) and causes prices to go up as the dollar is worth less.
O as for Socialism.. We seem to Socialize Farms and Big business plenty. Bush just handed companies 700 Billion but Farm, Teclo Subsidies, have long existed for generations. =). Free market my ass. | |
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| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't Oh brother, the liberal revisionist history continues.
Hospitals aren't not socialism, and certainly a great many are private for profit enterprises. In any event, the services even the "public" ones provide are funded by private sources...your private insurance, out of pocket etc. To call hospitals "socialism" is a complete joke. Now you want to can any gov't enterprise socialism...and is simply incorrect and pure ignorance. By your definition the military is socialism.
And no, you embarrassing yourself doesn't hurt, except my belly ache from laughing at your nonsense so hysterically.
Again, you said Ollie was convicted of selling arms to Iran which was total B.S. He was convicted pretty much of 'obstruction' and those convictions VACATED.
Liberal spin movies are just that, spin. I suppose you get your "facts" about the JFK assassignation from Oliver Stone. The facts about CIA "drug running" are they have been involved in or "looked the other way in" for nearly 60 years now, through every administration including Reagan AND Clinton.
As for Vietnam, again you have ZERO clue as to what you're talking about. Kennedy in mid 1961 just a few months after he blundered the Bay of Pigs invasion KNEW that the Soviets were emboldened and would test US' Soviet containment policies, especially S.E. Asia. When Kennedy got into office there were 800 US military personnel in Vietnam. He increased that number to well over 16,000. Kennedy got us into the Vietnam war and there is simply ZERO disputing this fundamental truth.
SDI and now BMDO obviously wasn't a failure, the USSR is no more and interceptor missile technologies and missile launch detection technologies are maturing. To this day, Russians are FREAKING out over the capabilities of SDI in Europe. If it was the failure you and your lib buddies claim it to be, the Russians wouldn't be giving two squirts of piss over ABM batteries in Europe.
You can blame Reagan for it raining today, doesn't make it true. Reaganomics resulting in a huge growth spurt in the economy and increased revenues to the Treasury. The fact that Congress spend it all and more lies with them just as Congress gets credit for keeping the budget under control during the mid-1990's.
Clinton didn't balance shit, the Republican let Congress did. Clinton wanted to blow the budget out of the water but Congressional Republicans held the line on spending, letting the gov't shut down on more than one occasion. No amount of your wishful thinking is going to change history.
As for the bailout, damn right true fiscal Conservatives are pissed. Just look at how the vote went and why the first vote failed. And Republicans are why the auto industry isn't getting their bailout yet.
You must be a product of our failed public education system. Spend more time learning history and save your fiction for the Saturday Evening Post. | |
| | | | | | | | | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't Public Hospitals receive PUBLIC TAX payer money. Do you not comprehend this facts. As a Matter of real facts, last year medical institutions received 57 million tax payer money to fund and research cures. Socialism bud. Argue as you might, Public Hospitals cannot refuse patients BECAUSE THEY ARE SOCIALIZED by Public dollars. Private hospitals are different. I never said Private. As for Roads, Schools, Emergency services, all the same. Try again..
Again, you said Ollie was convicted of selling arms to Iran which was total B.S. He was convicted pretty much of 'obstruction' and those convictions VACATED.
- Convicted means Guilty. Regan was aware of it but we don't convict and jail presidents. =). Someone has to take the fall when "Shit hits the fan". A man who is unaware of his workers actions is a man who does not deserve to lead. So have your pick. History says Regan knew full well. Take the other argument and assume he didnt, makes Regan Inept in the people he surrounded himself with.
- Cia drug running is something you can argue, but once again. You won't believe the testimony of people if it hit you in the head. No Conspiracy theories. It's pretty much known fact the CIA sold drugs to help the Sandistas. But hey, history and you are not friends.
- Vietnam started in 1959... PLEASE try to get your BULLSHIT right before typing inaccuracies. It was a conflict before a war. Then again look at the Korean war's failure. McArthur the Inept wanted to Fight North Korea, shelled into china, and got us bum rushed back to the parallel at which we started. Ah yes, Fighting communism for the failure since the 1950s.
- Star Wars was a failure. Maybe you don't understand that Russia has Europe and much of the world by the balls. THEY GIVE 80 percent of fuel to Europe. Let's see how cutting off that supply works for relations. Obviously russia is cash rich from oil, flexed it's might when Georgia bit off more than it could chew, and renewing cold war exercises in the Panama Canal. Doesn't seem like a Bankrupt and Poor nation to me? About the only thing we did was break up the USSR which is now a mess with all the "Stans" involved in terrorism. Never had that problem when Russia controlled them.
- Reaganomics resulted in stagflation, unemployment, and trillions in the hole. =). Call that growth?
Clinton Balanced Plenty. He could have spent as much as he wanted as Republicans didn't have veto majority and filbuster, but he didn't. Obviously, credit goes to him and Congress.
As for Subsidies. I don't see those Republicans BITCHING about the Farm Subsidies, Teclo Subsidies, and other crap we've handed out for years. It's only the stuff that makes news these "Small Government" shams bitch about when they are thrown in a corner. Obviously, the Patriot Act (Republican supported overwhelming), NSA wiretapping (Republican Supported Overwhelming), and big brother central weren't a problem. I guess these SHAMS of yours are no better than the rest of the lot. They give the money (our money) to their friends and want as much government as possible. Ask Bush. He's done a wonderful job at making this place Big Brother Paradise. | |
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Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
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join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
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edit:
December 4th, @08:14PM
| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't
Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981: the effect of Reaganomics |
Convicted doesn't mean crap when those convictions are VACATED. What part of VACATED did you not understand.
quote:
vacate |ˈvāˌkāt|
verb [ trans. ]
Cancel or annul a judgment, contract, or charge.
CIA drug running for 60 years isn't up for debate...it's fact.
Vietnam...oh brother. Where are you getting your history? Cracker Jacks? Go look at the facts regarding OUR involvement in Vietnam. Prior to 1961 there were all of 800 "advisors" there. Kennedy in the face of an emboldened USSR (after the Bay of Pigs) increased that number to 16,000. You want to ignore this simple fact, you go right ahead. It certainly wouldn't be the first time you made crap up as you go or simply ignored reality because it doesn't fit your liberal agenda. Kennedy got us into the mess in Vietnam and no matter how hard you try to erase those pages from history, you will fail.
Yep, Star Wars is a failure which is why Mendelev is blowing a head gasket over ABM deployments in Europe. Russia doesn't have anyone by the balls, especially with oil dropping below $50/bbl. They can try to hold natural gas over someone's head but eastern Europe is hardly "the world".
From 1982-1989 when Reagan policies were in effect average GDP growth was 4.3% and for all Reagan fiscal years including the Carter-effect it was 3.5%. Yeah, that's growth unless you're using a different math than the rest of us. And he created nearly 20 million jobs.
Clinton didn't balance shit, Congress did.
Subsidies: You see plenty of Republicans bitching about all subsidies, just not the neo-con WHORES running Congress since 2000 who turned in to liberal big spenders. And Bush, the dumbass, never saw a spending bill he didn't like. None of these neo-con jack-holes are Republicans. Bush in his first 4 years blew gov't up more than Clinton managed to in 8. There should be no farm subsidies just as there should be no corporate income taxes since it just ends up being consumers paying for it.
With this I'm done giving you history lessons. I recommend you stop getting your "history lessons" from Oliver Stone. | |
| | | | | | | | | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
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edit:
December 5th, @08:06AM
| Re: And in a year they'll be wishing they hadn't A) Hospitals are socialized. THEY ARE CALLED PUBLIC. You have Health insurance, but a PUBLIC / Tax Payer SUBSIDIZED hospital CANNOT turn you away. If you show up with a gun shot wound, a Public hospital by law HAS TO TREAT YOU. A private can turn you away. Not to mention, Social Security / Medicare / Medicaid are SOCIAL MEDICINE. When you turn 65, you get health care FUNDED by the government. I imagine you'll be turning it down right? Along with social security? Anyway, Public Hospitals / Colleges received 57 million to fund drugs. Don't take medicines. Tax payers SOCIALIZED their development SMART ONE.
B) Funny. A chart I found says the OPPOSITE.
»thepoliticsofdebt.com/wp-content···ge21.png
And here;s another chart showing Income rose the fastest in the last 30 years under clinton than any other president.
»www.nielsen.com/consumer_insight···e_V.html
So what's your point?? Obviously, you lack one. Regan sucked. Reganomics sucked. You've yet to prove a thing?
C) Cia did drug run. They have used this money to support wars such as the one in south America. Regan directly USED THIS MONEY to support the sandistas. It's proven. Oliver North used his inside knowledge to sell Weapons to Iran. Seems everyone was making a buck at the world's expense under Regan. What a man without character or morals.
D) Kennedy Defused the Cuban Missile Crisis Buddy. Might want to look up history regarding Cuba and the USSR and Kennedy's response. As for Vietnam, Johnson was the idiot that escalated it. LBJ how many of our kids have you killed today. Not kennedy. =). Kennedy was shot down long before it became a full blown war. Then again, we were involved there since 1959.
You B.S. Right wing nonsense might want to read the history of vietnam.
»www.pbs.org/battlefieldvietnam/h···dex.html
Obviously, I trust PBS more than I ever trust you. You are WRONG. Kennedy sent advisers =). Nice try on mixing up your crap. You shovel enough for one day.
D) Sure... And Clinton also didn't see record income creases, cut spending, etc... All Congress. President does nothing. Right? B.S.
E) Bullshit. Plenty of Republicans take home BILLIONS to their home states in Farm Subsidies and Corporate handouts. This has gone on for MANY MANY YEARS, long before 200. Don't give me that. They are less than disgusted when these big contracts go to their buddy's company. They been doing it for years and years as I said. Hell, and Ted Stevens 200 million bridge to nowhere, anyone? Palin kept the money and built a road to nowhere. =). Google that one. So yes.. don't play as if the Republicans are any different. Look at our national deficit. Since Regan got us in our first trillion, Bush Sr increased it by 3 or so more and Jr added 6 to it. Nice work ay? Ficscally sound my ass.
F) Republicans = Big Government and Big Brother. Don't see you refuting that one any either?
History? Do you know the word. Everything I found says you wouldn't know history if it came bottled up in that text book you never read. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
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| As a Canadian living in Los Angeles, I sure wish that health care here was socialized.
The fact that there's a 2 tiered system screws the middle class.
Those that either don't have any money, or are here illegally (big problem here in Los Angeles county) use County hospitals, which I'm heavily taxed for, yet not allowed to use. County hospitals give free shuttles, car seats, free parking, free medication, etc.
Then there's the private system which will take money for everything and everyone, and kick you to the curb the second that they think you may actually cost them anything. Private hospitals milk the medical/medicare for the 'easy' money, then kick everyone out the door over to county for anything they don't want to deal with. It should be criminal. | |
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