AT&T 'Carefully Considering' Selling Browsing DataAnother ISP insists selling your data improves broadband 'experience' 11:14AM Thursday Aug 14 2008 by Karl Bodetags: business · Op/Ed · privacy · AT&T U-VersePrompted by the NebuAD fiasco, the House Committee on Energy and Commerce recently began investigating how numerous ISPs and content operators treat user privacy (a hint: poorly). After sending out a letter to thirty-some companies, responses continue to pour in highlighting how many ISPs either sold user data without properly informing users, or are/were considering as much. The NY Times notes that the latest letter is from AT&T, who is "carefully considering" selling user browsing data. From a copy of AT&T's letter (pdf): If AT&T deploys these technologies and processes, and we have yet to do so, it will do so in the right way, only after full and careful consideration of the relevant issues, and will a particular focus on what we believe are the pillars of any business practices that involve customer information: (1) give customers control over the use of their information; (2) ensure transparency; (3) protect customers privacy; and (4) give customers value. Behavioral advertising "could prove quite valuable to consumers and could dramatically improve their online experiences, while at the same time protecting their privacy." -AT&T |
Given that the sale of user browsing data (which is estimated to provide ISPs with at least an additional $2 per month, per user) is never accompanied by rate reduction for consumers, the "value" being referred to is all AT&T's. Like both Charter and Embarq before them, AT&T really pours it on a little thick concerning how behavioral advertising is really about helping out the end-user. According to AT&T, the technology "could prove quite valuable to consumers and could dramatically improve their online experiences." Perhaps I'm a grumpy cynic, but an increase in Hawaii vacation ads every time I ramp up my Orbitz browsing doesn't exactly strike me as "value," nor does it particularly improve my online "experience." If AT&T's roughly fifteen million broadband customers each start creating at least $2 per month in brand new revenues, it will be AT&T executives and investors who find their "online experience" the most "enhanced" -- not customers. Maybe consumers would be more willing to hand over their browsing data as a new revenue stream if the process didn't begin with ISPs assuming all of their customers were idiots? Related:- Effort To Scuttle Telecom Immunity Push Fails
- AT&T Developing New Web Browser
- FISA: AT&T, Verizon Lobbyists Win Again
- Embarq: Selling User Browsing Data 'Empowers' Users
- The EFF Sues The President
- ISPs Try To Prevent New 'Opt In Only' Privacy Law
- AT&T, Verizon: Privacy Advocates Extraordinaire
- Verizon's Open Development Initiative? So Far It's A Joke
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 |  |   cdru Go Colts Premium,MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: If you don't allow ATT to sell your browsing data... said by PhoenixDown :ATT will treat your information with kid gloves... My kid had a pair of gloves once. Caked in mud. Soaking wet and/or frozen. Lost. Driven over. Chewed on by the dogs. Burnt. You name it.
Is that how AT&T is going to handle my privacy data? I can hardly wait. | |
|  |  |   Nick_L Premium join:2003-01-22 Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: If you don't allow ATT to sell your browsing data... Just an FYI, in case you weren't be facetious: the term kid gloves does not refer to the gloves of a kid but, rather, gloves made of kid (goat) leather. They were expensive and thus reserved for the rich/refined. Therefore to "treat something with kid gloves" is to treat it well.
Just thought you might want to know. Nick | |
|  |  |  |   cdru Go Colts Premium,MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN | Re: If you don't allow ATT to sell your browsing data... I always thought they were made from kids though...not goats. Learn something new every day.
I was being facetious.  | |
|  Kearnstd Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ | doesnt lower my ping! lowering my ping in games would increase my online experience, will ISPs selling browsing data do that?
something tells me the magic eight ball: Not Likely. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|  |  Airwolf7 Premium join:2004-12-12 Franklin, KY | Re: doesnt lower my ping! It may or may not increase your ping times, but I very much doubt it will lower them any. | |
|   en102 Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | The only online benefit of selling this data Is to make AT&T more money. -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
|  |   maartena Nice'n Round. Premium join:2002-05-10 Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: The only online benefit of selling this data said by en102 :Is to make AT&T more money. And although I *HATE* the idea, one could make the argument that if AT&T makes more money, they have more money for upgrades.
Sadly, a large chunk of that money will end up in the "christmas bonus" for the CEO. | |
|  |  |   morbo Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22 00000 clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: The only online benefit of selling this data said by maartena :said by en102 :Is to make AT&T more money. And although I *HATE* the idea, one could make the argument that if AT&T makes more money, they have more money for upgrades. continuing with that logic, everyone should pay $50 more per month because it will allow AT&T to have more money for upgrades. | |
|  |  |  |  |  Airwolf7 Premium join:2004-12-12 Franklin, KY
·AT&T Southeast
| How about I just pay them $2.00 more a month and they just leave my Internet connection the Hell alone?
They can earn more money the old fashion way. They can charge more.
It's not like the have any positive talking points when compared to their competitors in my area except for two things.
1. They know how to install and maintain outside plant.
2. Stability/Reliability | |
|  psx_defector
join:2001-06-09 Allen, TX
| Eeeeeeeediotssss! quote: Maybe consumers would be more willing to hand over their browsing data as a new revenue stream if the process didn't begin with ISPs assuming all of their customers were idiots?
Probably because the vast majority of ISP customers ARE idiots.
"Oh no! My computer might be running slowly! Let me click on the link to fix it!"
"Wow, a price from Nigeria wants to have ME, of all people, help him transfer money. Let me break out my gold Amex."
People will go off on some quest half-cocked because some blog linked to another blog who linked to another blog about some injustice that actually never took place.
Idiots drive the world now. Gotta cater to them first. So we get lovely press speaking points talking about "enhanced user experience" and "better browsing". Never mind that most of it is indeed bullshit, but most idiots will never understand anyways. | |
|  |  |   dadkins Go For It Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Stop ads by using ad blockers Ad Muncher - works with any browser: »www.admuncher.com/
Your data is still scattered, but ads are not displayed! -- Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
|  |  BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| said by TK Junk Mail :Stop all ads - targeted or not. For Firefox: » adblockplus.org/en/For IE7: » www.ie7pro.com/And as far as collecting your browsing history, all ISPs can do it and they don't need DPI to accomplish it. And a monolith like Google which controls 70% of the search activity on the net, can do the same thing. And with Google's tie-in with DoubleClick that reach expands to many sites not related to Google. Face it - there is little to no privacy while browsing and since the net was commercialized 20 years ago, there never was. First of all that doesn't from stop selling your data.
As far as ad blocke, you do realize the rason why you can surfer MILLIONS of sitesf or FREE is because of ads. If everyone blocked ads sites would have no recourse but to start charging. Sorry, but if I'm taking my times, worka dfn money bulding a website for YOU to surf for FREE the least you can do is put up with some ads. If not, then sorry you must PAY to come to my site. Bandwidth, hosting and my time isn't free. | |
|  |  |   TK Junk Mail Go ahead, make my day Premium join:2002-03-03 Margate City, NJ clubs:
·Comcast
edit: August 14th, @12:08PM
| Re: Stop ads by using ad blockers said by BF69 :said by TK Junk Mail :Stop all ads - targeted or not. For Firefox: » adblockplus.org/en/For IE7: » www.ie7pro.com/And as far as collecting your browsing history, all ISPs can do it and they don't need DPI to accomplish it. And a monolith like Google which controls 70% of the search activity on the net, can do the same thing. And with Google's tie-in with DoubleClick that reach expands to many sites not related to Google. Face it - there is little to no privacy while browsing and since the net was commercialized 20 years ago, there never was. First of all that doesn't from stop selling your data. As far as ad blockers, you do realize the reason why you can surf MILLIONS of sites for FREE is because of ads. If everyone blocked ads, sites would have no recourse but to start charging. Sorry, but if I'm taking my time, work and money building a website for YOU to surf for FREE the least you can do is put up with some ads. If not, then sorry you must PAY to come to my site. Bandwidth, hosting and my time isn't free. Of course, you can start charging for your site. That is your prerogative. But would anyone pay for it? That is why most sites are still free - no one would pay a nickel to go to them if they charged. Maybe the web needs a lot less sites if people won't pay to go to them. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
|  |  |  |  amungus Premium join:2004-11-26 America clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Re: Stop ads by using ad blockers Hey TK, I don't WANT your money! Nor do many other people who wish for their sites to be free in the first place.
If you offered me money out of the kindness of your heart, just because you wanted to show your support, or because you liked the site(s), or because you felt like being nice, guess what? I still wouldn't want it. Now, if you bought something I was selling, sure, have at it; give me all the money you want in that case. Buy one for your friends... | |
|  |  |  |  BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| said by TK Junk Mail :said by BF69 :said by TK Junk Mail :Stop all ads - targeted or not. For Firefox: » adblockplus.org/en/For IE7: » www.ie7pro.com/And as far as collecting your browsing history, all ISPs can do it and they don't need DPI to accomplish it. And a monolith like Google which controls 70% of the search activity on the net, can do the same thing. And with Google's tie-in with DoubleClick that reach expands to many sites not related to Google. Face it - there is little to no privacy while browsing and since the net was commercialized 20 years ago, there never was. First of all that doesn't from stop selling your data. As far as ad blockers, you do realize the reason why you can surf MILLIONS of sites for FREE is because of ads. If everyone blocked ads, sites would have no recourse but to start charging. Sorry, but if I'm taking my time, work and money building a website for YOU to surf for FREE the least you can do is put up with some ads. If not, then sorry you must PAY to come to my site. Bandwidth, hosting and my time isn't free. Of course, you can start charging for your site. That is your prerogative. But would anyone pay for it? That is why most sites are still free - no one would pay a nickel to go to them if they charged. Maybe the web needs a lot less sites if people won't pay to go to them. So I should spend money on bandwidth and hosting and other thigns just so you can surf for free? See the whole point is that if you are going to COST me money I don't want yo on my site in the first place.
Your logic is like telling McDonald's if they don't give you free food you won't eat there. So what. Your eating for FREE costs them money so they don't need you anyways. I hate to burst your bubble but 99% of what's on the internet is there to MAKE MONEY.
I'd rather have 1000 visitors a month paying me $30 a year than 1 million leaching my bandwidth and using adblockers.
let me ask you a question. Your boss says he now expects you to work for FREE. Do you? | |
|  |  |  |  |   TK Junk Mail Go ahead, make my day Premium join:2002-03-03 Margate City, NJ clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Stop ads by using ad blockers said by BF69 :let me ask you a question. Your boss says he now expects you to work for FREE. Do you? I'm retired. I am my own boss managing my investments. | |
|  |  |  |  |  jarthur31
join:2006-04-14 Carlsbad, NM | BS! The Internet was supposed to be an information resource not a giant flea market.
If you can't provide a website free, then by all means don't do it. And don't piss off the viewing public by loading crapware. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |   Dryv1yne
@prkcorp.com
| Re: Stop ads by using ad blockers said by jarthur31 :BS! The Internet was supposed to be an information resource not a giant flea market. Key phrase there "supposed to be"... until commercialization raped and pillaged it. | |
|  |  |  |  |   pog Premium join:2004-06-03 Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| said by BF69 :So I should spend money on bandwidth and hosting and other thigns just so you can surf for free? See the whole point is that if you are going to COST me money I don't want yo on my site in the first place. ... Just because you invest time or money in something doesn't automatically make it worth anything to anyone else.
Besides... hosting is so cheap these days, I have to wonder exactly what you're serving that you are worried about any of this. I mean, I pay roughly $6/month for up to 100GB of bandwidth, 10GB of space... and this is not a very liberal host by some standards! -- My Site | |
|  |  |   morbo Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22 00000 clubs: | is that a joke? | |
|  |  |  amungus Premium join:2004-11-26 America clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Good point. No they don't block transmissions of your activity, though some might stop the requests for some ads. Still won't stop your request for the top level site(s).
However, in my opinion, blockers are meant less for blocking sane, real ads than for blocking possibly infected, annoying ads. There are just too many off site ads these days, some leading to who knows where. Soon as you hit a site that's had its database and/or ads compromised by some SQL injection exploit, and you load those files, you've been compromised without "doing" anything, or going "somewhere bad" at all... Too many people are sick of it.
I take a much different stance than you on ads. I've hosted a (few) site(s) for some years now with zero ads, and don't plan on changing that any time soon.
Yes, It's my time, my money, and it's there for YOU to enjoy if you'd like. I put it there on my own terms, so that others can enjoy it on their own terms as well - take it or leave it. I would never consider charging somebody to simply view a site, unless its content were of some extra special value, in which case people could then buy into it. Take the adult industry for example - yeah, that's different, and yeah, they have the right to charge for access to the content - but NOT for simply stopping by.
You should realize you can surf to MILLIONS of sites for free WITHOUT ads, because some people realize that the internet is more about simple freedom than commerce only.
Before all the "e-commerce" insanity, the internet was far less cluttered with narrow minded people. I kind of miss it in a nostalgic kind of way. Most sites were just simple, and the word "flash" actually meant something other than the basis for usually crap quality video, CPU clogging code, and horrid excuses for site design... not to mention highly annoying ADS | |
|  |  |   Matt You can't fix stupid Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation
| said by BF69 :said by TK Junk Mail :Stop all ads - targeted or not. For Firefox: » adblockplus.org/en/For IE7: » www.ie7pro.com/And as far as collecting your browsing history, all ISPs can do it and they don't need DPI to accomplish it. And a monolith like Google which controls 70% of the search activity on the net, can do the same thing. And with Google's tie-in with DoubleClick that reach expands to many sites not related to Google. Face it - there is little to no privacy while browsing and since the net was commercialized 20 years ago, there never was. First of all that doesn't from stop selling your data. As far as ad blocke, you do realize the rason why you can surfer MILLIONS of sitesf or FREE is because of ads. If everyone blocked ads sites would have no recourse but to start charging. Sorry, but if I'm taking my times, worka dfn money bulding a website for YOU to surf for FREE the least you can do is put up with some ads. If not, then sorry you must PAY to come to my site. Bandwidth, hosting and my time isn't free. Hopefully the beer is. | |
|  |  |   SillyRabbit
@tds.net
| said by BF69 :said by TK Junk Mail :Stop all ads - targeted or not. For Firefox: » adblockplus.org/en/For IE7: » www.ie7pro.com/And as far as collecting your browsing history, all ISPs can do it and they don't need DPI to accomplish it. And a monolith like Google which controls 70% of the search activity on the net, can do the same thing. And with Google's tie-in with DoubleClick that reach expands to many sites not related to Google. Face it - there is little to no privacy while browsing and since the net was commercialized 20 years ago, there never was. First of all that doesn't from stop selling your data. As far as ad blocke, you do realize the rason why you can surfer MILLIONS of sitesf or FREE is because of ads. If everyone blocked ads sites would have no recourse but to start charging. Sorry, but if I'm taking my times, worka dfn money bulding a website for YOU to surf for FREE the least you can do is put up with some ads. If not, then sorry you must PAY to come to my site. Bandwidth, hosting and my time isn't free. You want me to come to your site for a reason, so YOU pay to try and get ME to come there. I call BS on you, Sir/Maam | |
|  |  |  |  BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| Re: Stop ads by using ad blockers said by SillyRabbit :said by BF69 :said by TK Junk Mail :Stop all ads - targeted or not. For Firefox: » adblockplus.org/en/For IE7: » www.ie7pro.com/And as far as collecting your browsing history, all ISPs can do it and they don't need DPI to accomplish it. And a monolith like Google which controls 70% of the search activity on the net, can do the same thing. And with Google's tie-in with DoubleClick that reach expands to many sites not related to Google. Face it - there is little to no privacy while browsing and since the net was commercialized 20 years ago, there never was. First of all that doesn't from stop selling your data. As far as ad blocke, you do realize the rason why you can surfer MILLIONS of sitesf or FREE is because of ads. If everyone blocked ads sites would have no recourse but to start charging. Sorry, but if I'm taking my times, worka dfn money bulding a website for YOU to surf for FREE the least you can do is put up with some ads. If not, then sorry you must PAY to come to my site. Bandwidth, hosting and my time isn't free. You want me to come to your site for a reason, so YOU pay to try and get ME to come there. I call BS on you, Sir/Maam Are you stupid? Seriously. Your post prove you have ZERO clue to how the intenet works. | |
|  |  |   hopeflicker Capitalism breeds greed Premium join:2003-04-03 Long Beach, CA
| said by BF69 :said by TK Junk Mail :Stop all ads - targeted or not. For Firefox: » adblockplus.org/en/For IE7: » www.ie7pro.com/And as far as collecting your browsing history, all ISPs can do it and they don't need DPI to accomplish it. And a monolith like Google which controls 70% of the search activity on the net, can do the same thing. And with Google's tie-in with DoubleClick that reach expands to many sites not related to Google. Face it - there is little to no privacy while browsing and since the net was commercialized 20 years ago, there never was. First of all that doesn't from stop selling your data. As far as ad blocke, you do realize the rason why you can surfer MILLIONS of sitesf or FREE is because of ads. If everyone blocked ads sites would have no recourse but to start charging. Sorry, but if I'm taking my times, worka dfn money bulding a website for YOU to surf for FREE the least you can do is put up with some ads. If not, then sorry you must PAY to come to my site. Bandwidth, hosting and my time isn't free. Your pro corporation drivel is a spitting image of the guy trying to block FF users from viewing his site. »slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/0···from=rss -- Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. | |
|  |  |   RangerTX Premium join:2006-05-17 Los Angeles, CA
| said by BF69 :said by TK Junk Mail :Stop all ads - targeted or not. For Firefox: » adblockplus.org/en/For IE7: » www.ie7pro.com/And as far as collecting your browsing history, all ISPs can do it and they don't need DPI to accomplish it. And a monolith like Google which controls 70% of the search activity on the net, can do the same thing. And with Google's tie-in with DoubleClick that reach expands to many sites not related to Google. Face it - there is little to no privacy while browsing and since the net was commercialized 20 years ago, there never was. First of all that doesn't from stop selling your data. As far as ad blocke, you do realize the rason why you can surfer MILLIONS of sitesf or FREE is because of ads. If everyone blocked ads sites would have no recourse but to start charging. Sorry, but if I'm taking my times, worka dfn money bulding a website for YOU to surf for FREE the least you can do is put up with some ads. If not, then sorry you must PAY to come to my site. Bandwidth, hosting and my time isn't free. Your site will die very fast if your make it pay only. Information generally on the internet is free, so while it's your prerogative, you will find that most if not all people will simple move on to another website. | |
|  |  viperlmw Premium join:2005-01-25
·Qwest.net
| said by TK Junk Mail :Face it - there is little to no privacy while browsing and since the net was commercialized 20 years ago, there never was. While this may be true, it doesn't mean we should stop fighting for more privacy. Fighting the good fight can be beneficial.
"Never give up! Never surrender" Commander Taggert, NSEA Protector | |
|  |  |  |  |  See 6 replies to this post | |
 |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ | so tell me BF59, do you consider popup blocking to be strike against webmasters too? because every browser does it nowdays. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|  |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ
| the anti-ad people have so much fuel for their fires as well. the ads on so many websites arent just simple unobtrusive text ads, they are Shockwave driven bright flashing ads that make noise and many times even interfer with using the back button. i compair the current age of web ads to someone making it so TV ads can follow you into the Bathroom. i dont mind the google powered text ads but i hate anything that flashes and makes noise. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|  azjerry
join:2002-12-04 Phoenix, AZ
| could? Behavioral advertising "could prove quite valuable to consumers and could dramatically improve their online experiences, while at the same time protecting their privacy."
A lot of "could"s in that statement. They could just as accurately say it could cure cancer or could give you winning lottery numbers. How about more "will"s or "would"s? | |
|  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | Pay Me and I'll Do It I'd have no problem with this if they passed that $2 a month down to me.
Yes, I really am that cheap. -- This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
|  BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN | They can stop talking about caps now. If they are going to make money off my surfing habits then there's their money from extra badnwidth they supposedly need. $2=about 30 GB worth of bandwidth. | |
|  amungus Premium join:2004-11-26 America clubs:
·Cox HSI
| and pigs can fly ...with sufficient force...
"Experience" ..yeah, sounds like a good time... not really.
And how exactly would any privacy be protected? Isn't it already funneled directly to the NSA anyway? Not only that, but tons of data flows through their networks from other companies. Would they then sell off another tap to ad agencies if your data passed through their networks??? | |
|   anonymous2
@mindspring.com | Either you with us or we will terminate your account They win and you loose!!!! | |
|   morbo Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22 00000 clubs: edit: August 14th, @12:25PM
| canceling dsl and pots today goodbye AT&T! you've done many things over the years to make me hate you. helping the NSA spy on all americans really sticks out. but this is where i call (1-800-288-2020) and cancel my phone and internet services with you.
goodbye. | |
|  |   kfsutops Premium join:2002-08-19 Brandon, FL clubs:  | Re: canceling dsl and pots today I bet you don't cancel.... That is if you are even a customer. | |
|  |  |   morbo Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22 00000 clubs: | Re: canceling dsl and pots today huh?
i called about an hour ago. woman in retention was nice. usual script. | |
|   fatmanskinny Premium join:2004-01-04 Atlanta, GA | What's new??? Companies have been pimping consumer data for years. | |
|  |   Yarly
@optonline.net | Re: What's new??? I agree, it's been going on for years just under the table. | |
|  |  |  |   asdfdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
| That isn't a reason to open the doors and allow anything to go.
Their behavior is becoming much more intrusive and the level of monitoring and the extent to which online behavior is tied to personally identifiable information is going to grow worse. Concentration of power in the isp market will only make this problem worse as well. There have to be boundaries set and norms need to be established for acceptable isp behavior or there will be no end to it. | |
|   NOCMan Verizon Fios User Premium join:2004-09-30 Flower Mound, TX | The Lawsuits will Fly once Daddy surfs some porn and then molly comes home from school and opens the browser and porn ad's start filling her screen. -- Mac Chatter »www.macchatter.net | |
|  |  EPS
join:2008-02-13 Hingham, MA | Re: The Lawsuits will Fly once Indeed... and even ignoring the legal consequences, that doesn't do anything for the porn advertisers. How are ad targeters supposed to compensate for multiple users? Indeed, a "targeted" ad could be worse than a standard ad if mis-targeted. | |
|  |  |  bjbrock
join:2002-10-28 Mcalester, OK
| As long as it is truly opt-in... »www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/···eb-users
As long as the surfer must opt-in before DPI takes place, I'm not going to complain. It's not good enough that ads are not served without opt-in, data mining must also not take place without opt-in. This is the only way that the service would truly be at the user's discretion.
Some users may actually want targeted advertising. They should have it then. But users that don't want it should be totally shielded from all of it. | |
|   FastiBook
join:2003-01-08 Newtown, PA | Crap. I have enough spam from people sharing/selling my info. Idiots.
- Andy -- LETS GO METS! | |
|  |  Thug21
join:2005-08-21 | Re: Crap. So, who is the best person at ATT to direct some major complaints to in regards to this? | |
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