 nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| silly newspaper! ". . . But it cuts both ways."
it only cuts both ways for the little people, not the giants that control commerce and congress, silly newspaper editor!
this is why the telecom act of 1996 failed to bring the promised competition - slow rolling and obstruction by the incumbents, combined with an almost complete lack of enforcement of penalties.
It's the incumbent way and it will never stop until we have elected leaders that don't have their heads up some lobbyists dark place. | |
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC |  This is why
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 | Zerny
join:2007-05-04
Fort Gratiot, MI | Re: This is why They should build there own poles aka network, oh wait why build your own infrastructure when you can mooch off someone elses for minimum cost. | |
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MorePoles
@ameritech.net | Re: This is why That is a great idea, We need MORE poles along the roadside and some more in front of the house.
Duh! | |
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| | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | How about they remove their poles from public land so that there's room. Oh wait, that's why they have to share.. | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Hey I have an idea, lets make your front yard look like bambi's forest.
This is what deregulation causes. | |
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| | | Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA | Re: This is why Those are (porous) safety nets for falling objects. | |
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| | ANWDREW
join:2004-01-21
Sterling, VA | We payed for the poles& cable the tax/fee payers. | |
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| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers Maybe the local community didn't want their streets dug up.
They could be like the NIMBYs in MD. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers said by moonpuppy  :They could be like the NIMBYs in MD. Such people deserve to never have access to any new technology ever.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
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| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers Well, if they don't want their utilities to be upgraded, you can just shut it off and leave them in the dark. Then they won't be able to charge their cellphones or make phone calls all day trying to defeat you. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers You will never see me complaining about any next-generation information solution provider ripping up my yard to offer me better service.
I'd sell space in my backyard for a cell tower if I could.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
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digitalfreak
Frodo failed. Bush has the ring
join:2005-12-09
Blacklick, OH | Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers You're definitely in the minority. | |
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
 ·Corporate Colocation
| said by pnh102 :Perhaps instead of waiting for a competitor to help them out, maybe a better course of action would have been to get franchise rights to dig into the ground and run underground cable instead. Oh wait, it is easier to blame your competitor instead. You have any idea how much more expensive it is to bury a line rather than simply tacking it to a pole? You think AT&T doesn't know this? | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers said by MattE :You have any idea how much more expensive it is to bury a line rather than simply tacking it to a pole? Yes.
So why is that AT&T's problem?
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
edit:
February 20th, @02:15PM
| Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers Why is it ATT's problem? Because the poles are shared. That's the agreement.
//edited for spelling. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers said by SRFireside :Why is it ATT's problem? Because the poles are shared. That's the agreement. Agreement or not, Thames Valley accomplishes nothing by whining about how unfair AT&T allegedly is. They need to be a "do-er" and not a complainer.
They need to get a franchise agreement and run their own wires.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation
| Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers said by pnh102 :said by SRFireside :Why is it ATT's problem? Because the poles are shared. That's the agreement. Agreement or not, Thames Valley accomplishes nothing by whining about how unfair AT&T allegedly is. They need to be a "do-er" and not a complainer. They need to get a franchise agreement and run their own wires. Which is what they are trying to do, but poles require minimum clearances. AT&T is not cooperating and purposefully delaying the work required for TVC to string their wire. However, when AT&T needs to move wires around for minimum clearances, there isn't a problem getting THEIR work done, even if the order was put in AFTER TVC. This is why they now have 70-days to comply with the order.
Not sure which part of this you're not understanding. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers said by MattE :Not sure which part of this you're not understanding. There's nothing to understand. AT&T doesn't want to help out its competitors, so it will do whatever it can to screw TVC over.
I am merely suggesting TVC take the seemingly radical approach and run its own infrastructure instead.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
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| | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers Maybe, then, power should shun AT&T and do the same thing to them, right?
That's a good idea.. any new attachment AT&T wants to do that requires them attaching an electric pole, the power company should sit on it for a year. See how fast AT&T cries foul.
While I agree with you on principle.. go underground.. I strongly disagree with you in reality.
AT&T has a responsibility to share the poles. If this were Comcast doing it, you'd be up in arms. (And yes, Comcast does own some poles)
This move on AT&T's part is a calculated move to force a competitor to spend themselves out of their project potentially derailing the efforts all together.
I seriously can't believe you'd support AT&T on this one and stand for it. AT&T is, as usual, snubbing their nose at this and pushing the limits.
In a case like this, I'd condemn those poles, take them with eminent domain punishing at&t for their failure to respond properly. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by pnh102 :There's nothing to understand. AT&T doesn't want to help out its competitors, so it will do whatever it can to screw TVC over. I am merely suggesting TVC take the seemingly radical approach and run its own infrastructure instead. So all's fair in war, eh? Then here's a seemingly radical approach: TVC should simply cut at&t's lines and put theirs in it's place to screw at&t over. OH wait, that's probably illegal... So it's legal for at&t to screw over TVC, but not vice versa... or perhaps, it's NOT, which is why the State is now stepping in.... Not like TVC is trying to screw at&t. They merely want to exist, and get the access they are entitled to have.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers said by KrK :said by pnh102 :I am merely suggesting TVC take the seemingly radical approach and run its own infrastructure instead. Then here's a seemingly radical approach: TVC should simply cut at&t's lines and put theirs in it's place to screw at&t over. OH wait, that's probably illegal... So you're trying to say that my suggestion of TVC running their own infrastructure is illegal?
said by KrK :So it's legal for at&t to screw over TVC, but not vice versa... or perhaps, it's NOT, which is why the State is now stepping in.... Not like TVC is trying to screw at&t. They merely want to exist, and get the access they are entitled to have. If TVC goes under because it did not find some way to bring service to its customers, then it is their fault, not AT&T's.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers Nice attempts at dodging. If TVC fails to deploy their network in a timely and cost-efficient manner because AT&T breaks regulations or the laws, then that's AT&T's fault, and they should be righteously smacked down for it. | |
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digitalfreak
Frodo failed. Bush has the ring
join:2005-12-09
Blacklick, OH | Wow, look, another AT&T shill. | |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
edit:
February 20th, @03:47PM
| said by MattE :Not sure which part of this you're not understanding. The problem is you're expecting logic from a known telco shill. | |
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i5050MbSoon
Formerly TwoKDialup
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI
| said by pnh102 :Perhaps instead of waiting for a competitor to help them out, maybe a better course of action would have been to get franchise rights to dig into the ground and run underground cable instead. Oh wait, it is easier to blame your competitor instead.
Fine but they should force T to bury their cable in all service areas. T shouldn't be allowed to cut costs by using power company poles.
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Comcast has spoiled me rotten! | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers said by i5050MbSoon :T shouldn't be allowed to cut costs by using power company poles. If AT&T and the local power company come to a mutual agreement for the former to use the latter's utility poles then there's no problem with that.
If AT&T owns the poles, then there is also nothing stopping TVC from coming to a similar agreement, and if it can't, it will have to pursue alternatives.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
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| | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers said by pnh102 :If AT&T and the local power company come to a mutual agreement for the former to use the latter's utility poles then there's no problem with that. If AT&T owns the poles, then there is also nothing stopping TVC from coming to a similar agreement, and if it can't, it will have to pursue alternatives. If there is no legally binding rule, law or regulation mandating that ATT share their poles - WHY WOULD THEY DO IT? There is a compelling financial reason for ATT NOT to share - keeping out competition. If this is the case, tough sh!t, TVC is screwed.
If there is a reg or law (most likely as a condition of the rights of way use) that mandates ATT must share poles (at a reasonable, nondiscriminatory rates, etc.), then ATT is doing their best to take as long and make it as difficult as possible to do so, for the same reason as above: to discourage or prevent competition.
If the second is the case, ATT should be fined hugely and swiftly to make them comply with their agreement, otherwise the rule or law is useless (as it appears to be if there is one).
the reason the 1996 telecom act did zero for competition is the telcos just ignored the law and ate the fines when they got caught (the fines were apparently not huge enough).
Although I consider ATT evil, they are just acting like any other company should when there is no regulation - do whatever possible to prevent and/or eliminate competition to enable as high a price for their product as possible - it's the corporate way and they are legally bound to make money for their shareholders.
BUT, that's why regulation is needed in some cases: some companies don't care about their customers and if they are in a low competition or no competition environment, THEY DON'T HAVE TO. They also don't have to care about the common good or what is good for the country.
Obviously, some people on this forum want to live in the kind of world where corporations do whatever they want - rape the environment for private gain, prosper at the expense of the well being of customers and the country, etc.
That's all fine and good, but that's not the kind of country I want to live in.
and in response to the certain comeback (don't live here), I have certainly thought about that lately.
and when things change back eventually (and they will), I say the same to you - if you don't like it, don't live here. | |
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wolverine_99
Premium
join:2004-12-07
Mckinney, TX
| said by i5050MbSoon :Fine but they should force T to bury their cable in all service areas. T shouldn't be allowed to cut costs by using power company poles. Alternative providers in Connecticut have been complaining for years that they're having a hard time completing projects because AT&T is slow or non-responsive to requests to share poles jointly owned by AT&T and regional utilities. The poles are jointly owned by AT&T. Your comment doesn't apply to AT&T cutting costs by using the asset of another company since it owns rights to the pole. | |
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i5050MbSoon
Formerly TwoKDialup
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI | Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers Excellent! Lets have all telecom competitors put in their own poles. Our streets and highways would look real nice then.
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Comcast has spoiled me rotten! | |
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wolverine_99
Premium
join:2004-12-07
Mckinney, TX
| Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers Yes, let's go to that extreme because that's exactly the answer. It's a new provider w/new service. Incur the cost and bury your lines. Do I feel all line should be buried? Yes, but it won't happen since it costs too much money for the companies at stake. I'm fortunate to live in an area where we have buried lines for phone, cable, etc. Looks nice too. | |
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| | | | | TheGhost
Premium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL
clubs:
| Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers said by wolverine_99 :Yes, let's go to that extreme because that's exactly the answer. It's a new provider w/new service. Incur the cost and bury your lines. The only unfair piece is that T and VZ and all the other Bell companies have built up a large barrier to entry using monopoly power and profits. It was easy to build out the poles and infrastructure when paying for it was basically cost plus. | |
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| | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| said by wolverine_99 :Yes, let's go to that extreme because that's exactly the answer. It's a new provider w/new service. Incur the cost and bury your lines. Do I feel all line should be buried? Yes, but it won't happen since it costs too much money for the companies at stake. I'm fortunate to live in an area where we have buried lines for phone, cable, etc. Looks nice too. Then who will force the baby bell to bury their lines? huh? | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by wolverine_99 :Your comment doesn't apply to AT&T cutting costs by using the asset of another company since it owns rights to the pole. at&t sharing the pole with the utilities that put it in. Therefore, they should also have to share it with other utilities, even if they ARE competitors. If they won't share it, then they shouldn't be allowed to use it either.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| So, they are building out their own network, on utility easements they are paying for, but that makes them "Losers".
It reminds me of people saying "CLEC's are sponging leeches! They should build their own networks!" and then when they DO build their own networks, they still get slammed.
Face it, Telco shills. You guys just defend the companies like AT&T for some unknown reason. They are wrong to do what they do, and people who defend and support them are as much to blame as they are.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| There are several interests at work here... While I think little to nothing of AT&T as a company, I can't say I really blame them for not wanting to make it easy for a competititor to compete...much less to use AT&T's own equipment to do it with.
On the other hand, if there's a fairly negotiated agreement in place to do that in return for payment..the death star shouldn't be intentionally delaying use of these poles either.
There is also our interests at work here as well..with our meaning consumers and residents of these cities and towns.
I don't know about you, but I don't want every tom dick and harry company coming along and being given a right away to rip up roads to lay their independent lines whenever they want. It's our money as taxpayers that is paying for the new roads and even if they repair them after digging them up..personally i think they often times look like crap being all patched up...not to mention the inconvenience to traffic and to communities as a whole.
And so, what I really support is a system that makes these right of ways shared among providers and a common transport system that they all can use, whether it's telephone polls or underground conduits both their interests and the publics interest is best represented by allowing a shared access type system to run their wires through or along.
Perhaps the answer is to have towns and cities own and maintain these rights of way, whether it's polls or whatever. And all these parties have to pay rent to them.
With the competition as it exists today, there's too much room for this kind of thing to happen. For AT&T to delay competitors from moving in.
And, again..maybe rightfully so looking at it purely from a business perspective. After all, they're having their A$$'s handed to them on a silver platter from landlines to broadband and their companies demise is at hand.
I'd be sweating bullets too if i was them.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! | |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Hollywood, FL
clubs:
| Re: There are several interests at work here... The biggest problem with poles is that there is only a certain amount of room on right of ways and easements to put them. If every competitor had to put up their own poles, then our neighborhoods would look like crap and we wouldn't have any land left.
I honestly wish they would have included more info about the joint ownership between AT&T and the regional utilities. Sounds like to me that the joint ownership is one sided. AT&T has total control in the say so of who can and cannot connect. | |
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| | smokarz
join:2006-07-24
West Hartford, CT | Communists America !!! Wecome to the Communists of America where the major corporations (a la ATT, Comcast, etc.) are your dictators. You shall obey their laws, or be sent to the dark ages. | |
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| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: Communists America !!! Nope, you deny techs access to the poles/land, the county sheriff will show up, or a local SWAT Team. | |
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DrStrange
Technically feasible
Premium
join:2001-07-23
West Hartford, CT | Corporate rule = fascism [not communism]. | |
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ackman
join:2000-10-04
Acworth, GA | free market? just another example of why the free market does not work without regulation. Power hungry CEOs just can't help but cheat and steal to gain more power and wealth. | |
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ossito16
join:2004-07-31
Whiting, IN
|  natonalization
pang violating anything that goes against the best interest of the people. It is time a real message is sent to corp America. Stop the BS. Start putting poles and equip up for auction. Have the money go to the state or states that company is violating rules much like the big cigarette lawsuits. Stop taking crap. | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: natonalization said by ossito16 :I wonder if states could just confiscate the properties of a co pang violating anything that goes against the best interest of the people. It is time a real message is sent to corp America. Stop the BS. Start putting poles and equip up for auction. Have the money go to the state or states that company is violating rules much like the big cigarette lawsuits. Stop taking crap. You can't fine a company, since then all those fines just come out of consumers, otherwise you will have "biggest bankruptcy in USA history" on WSJ. You can't auction poles and equipment 1 by 1, its useless unless its sold as a package/network.
Its time for companies to be terminated/executed in this country. All physical and patent assets get sold in as tiny as possible portions to competitors. Trademarks/copyrights are kept forever by the govt, so the corporate brand disappears and no other company can reuse it. And all employees above a certain pay scale/wage/salery are banned from working with any of the purchasers of the assets for life. Public utilities are slightly more complicated. Auction pole/underground duct rights for each central office 1 by 1. Auction the central offices off 1 by 1 to a real estate company. Auction the copper/fiber plant to a different company 1 by 1. Then auction all the equipment off inside each central office. This way, each company won't have a reason to spit the competition because there is none. There might be some problems with secret business agreements between the different elements (pole, outdoor plant, real estate, central office equipment) so real estate and outdoor plant favor a certain CLEC in exchange for money. | |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs: | MaBell This just gives MaBell a heads up as to where to install their Fiber networks, and the time needed to do so be fore the competition does. | |
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elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO
·Mediacom
| Re: MaBell said by ctceo :This just gives MaBell a heads up as to where to install their Fiber networks, and the time needed to do so be fore the competition does. to bad Uvers is fail compared to real FTTP like FiOS or UTOPIA | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: MaBell said by elios :said by ctceo :This just gives MaBell a heads up as to where to install their Fiber networks, and the time needed to do so be fore the competition does. to bad Uvers is fail compared to real FTTP like FiOS or UTOPIA UTOPIA look it up. | |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
| UVerse is failing because they are too slow to deploy. They have permissions to deploy here in South Bend Indiana, and they haven't yet. It only takes a 3Meg Stream for Uverse to function properly unless you need HD, and have the eyesight to take advantage of it. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | It's not just CT! It's *everywhere* Same story, different state. Difference is, they get away with it elsewhere. The State hasn't called them out here for exactly the same things. | |
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thinkaboutit
@sbc.com
| Manpower Maybe AT&T just doesn't have the workforce to fulfill TVC's request in a timely manner. I'm sure that AT&T had planned on using the majority of its construction crews to upgrade their plant to provide U-Verse. Allocating a portion their crew to lower the cable on miles of poles to provide clearance for a third party would slow the build and have consequences with investors. Is it fair that this third party slow the build? Should AT&T be forced to hire more workers if they would only need them temporarily to fulfill TVC's request. | |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO | Yet another reason... there should be one network nationwide that serves every person/business and can be leased by any company to provide any service to any customer anywhere in the country. | |
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AT&T Blocking Competitors in CT
