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story category AT&T And Verizon FTTH On The Same Block?
Things get really weird down in Texas...
(old news - 01:36PM Thursday Jan 29 2009)
tags: Fiber · competition · business · hardware · Verizon FIOS · AT&T U-Verse
Verizon has started laying fiber in some neighborhoods that are already served by AT&T U-Verse. The select broadband incursions may evolve into a broader battle, depending on who you ask. Some believe any AT&T or Verizon direct competition could remain limited to very select greenfield developments in just a handful of Texas areas. Others think that once Verizon gets a taste of greenfield profits, they'll expand the idea into states like California.

Click for full size
Light Reading editor Phil Harvey e-mails me to note they've taken photographs of the only town in the U.S. where you can see AT&T and Verizon FTTH gear on the same block. AT&T forgoes VDSL/FTTN for FTTH in some developments, though they cap the bandwidth delivered back to the same max speed of regular VDSL U-Verse (up to 18Mbps, at least until AT&T perfects channel bonding).

That would seemingly give Verizon, whose top speed is 50Mbps, the advantage in any head to head battle. At least in terms of speed -- AT&T could offer more alluring bundles. In many high-end greenfield developments though, price isn't going to be as important as just getting the best product. Most budget-minded consumers in lower ROI regions will probably never have to worry about AT&T and Verizon fighting to offer them FTTH.

The photos are from a new Frisco, Texas development, and (probably to AT&T and Verizon's chagrin) show both carrier's cabinets all up close and personal like -- both inside and out. Despite the boxes being so close, they're still serving different upscale developments. For now, anyway. Verizon will be lighting up FiOS in AT&T areas over the next few months -- the first time the two giants will go head to head.

Related:
  1. AT&T, Verizon Get Their GPON On
  2. Verizon Loses One GPON Partner
  3. When U-Verse and FiOS Compete
  4. Verizon Laughs Off DOCSIS 3.0
  5. Verizon Continues Proud History Of Denial
  6. Verizon Announces New FiOS Tiers, Promotions
  7. Verizon: LTE iPhone 'Apple's Decision'
  8. What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
Forums » AT&T And Verizon FTTH On The Same Block?
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en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

It would come down to the bottom line for me...

Bottom line for me...

- What's it going to cost me
- What do I get for it
- Is it reliable

I don't need 50Mbps (unless its being sold to me for ~$30-40 /month as part of a decent priced bundle).

Here's what I would want/need:
~$100/month price
-TV service on 3 sets (SD currently)
-VoIP unlimited including Canada
-Internet at +6Mbps/1Mbps

Currently I have this package on TWC (10/1Mbps) - I do not wish to pay more.

aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast

Re: It would come down to the bottom line for me...

That is too slow. I had 5mbs/1mbs back in 1997. This is 2009.

said by en102 See Profile :

Bottom line for me...

- What's it going to cost me
- What do I get for it
- Is it reliable

I don't need 50Mbps (unless its being sold to me for ~$30-40 /month as part of a decent priced bundle).

Here's what I would want/need:
~$100/month price
-TV service on 3 sets (SD currently)
-VoIP unlimited including Canada
-Internet at +6Mbps/1Mbps

Currently I have this package on TWC (10/1Mbps) - I do not wish to pay more.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

Re: It would come down to the bottom line for me...

For many... 1.5Mbps/384kbps is even fine.

I do remote work (over SSH/VPN) and have used 3Mbps/512kbps up until recently (POTS got too expensive - TWC made a good deal)

Consider the following:

1.5Mbps/384bkps - $25
6Mbps/512kbps - $40
10Mbps/1Mbps - $55
20Mbps/2Mbps (or 18/1.5Mbps on AT&T) $65

Which would you pick and why ?
I personally would pick the 6Mbps/512kbps - if I didn't have to work remotely - I'd probably hit the 1.5Mbps/384kbps.

Now... lets add some modern economics to this:
5GB cap 1.5Mbps/384bkps - $25
40GB cap 6Mbps/512kbps - $40
150GB cap 10Mbps/1Mbps - $55
300GB cap 20Mbps/2Mbps (or 18/1.5Mbps on AT&T) $65

I'd be in the 10Mbps/1Mbps... just by volume of data.

This is the 'new incentive' for higher speed/pricing.
Not everyone needs (or better yet wants) to pay for higher speed.
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

said by aaronwt See Profile :

That is too slow. I had 5mbs/1mbs back in 1997. This is 2009.
Makes no difference to me. Internet for $25 to $30 per month, regardless of the speed. If you can't deliver 100 mb/s for $30 a month, I can live without it.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice

said by en102 See Profile :

Bottom line for me...

- What's it going to cost me
- What do I get for it
- Is it reliable

Yep, even as a life long tech "geek" I only got FiOS because I got a better deal. Sure, I really wanted it and would have probably chosen it even if it was the same price as TWC, but at the end of the day they quoted me a price roughly $50 less per month than I was paying. The notion thrown around these forums that "its over" if a carrier provides FTTP is misplaced at best.
--
Комитет государственной безопасности

GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast

Verizon/AT&T FTTH competition - maybe not

»AT&T And Verizon FTTH On The Same Block?
AT&T forgoes VDSL/FTTN for some developments, where they run fiber to the home -- but they cap the bandwidth delivered back to the same speed of regular VDSL U-Verse (up to 18Mbps).

That would seemingly give Verizon, whose top speed is 50Mbps, the advantage in any head to head battle.
I am glad that said seemingly. Because depending on price many people would choose the cheaper service seeing that MOST people would find 18 mbps plenty enough speed and wouldn't pop for Verizon(at a much higher price) over AT&T FTTH.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

Re: Verizon/AT&T FTTH competition - maybe not

said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

I am glad that said seemingly. Because depending on price many people would choose the cheaper service seeing that MOST people would find 18 mbps plenty enough speed and wouldn't pop for Verizon(at a much higher price) over AT&T FTTH.
Stream a few HD channels and your usable bandwidth suddenly isn't 18mbps but a fraction of that. It's still more then what many people have, but it's still limited.

GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast

Re: Verizon/AT&T FTTH competition - maybe not

said by cdru See Profile :

said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

I am glad that said seemingly. Because depending on price many people would choose the cheaper service seeing that MOST people would find 18 mbps plenty enough speed and wouldn't pop for Verizon(at a much higher price) over AT&T FTTH.
Stream a few HD channels and your usable bandwidth suddenly isn't 18mbps but a fraction of that. It's still more then what many people have, but it's still limited.
That is true where UVerse is using copper. But it wouldn't apply to those AT&T greenfield sites using FTTH as discussed in this news story.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

Re: Verizon/AT&T FTTH competition - maybe not

said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

That is true where UVerse is using copper. But it wouldn't apply to those AT&T greenfield sites using FTTH as discussed in this news story.
From the article and also quoted in your original message:
quote:
AT&T forgoes VDSL/FTTN for some developments, where they run fiber to the home -- but they cap the bandwidth delivered back to the same speed of regular VDSL U-Verse (up to 18Mbps).
Emphasis added.

It's not real clear if they are only capping the internet data and allowing faster rates for IPTV, or if all data, regardless of purpose, is capped at 18mbits. If it's the former, you are right. If it's the latter, what I said still would apply until they remove that artificial restriction.

Thunderlips
Get It Up Fly A Hull

join:2001-12-07

said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

I am glad that said seemingly. Because depending on price many people would choose the cheaper service seeing that MOST people would find 18 mbps plenty enough speed and wouldn't pop for Verizon(at a much higher price) over AT&T FTTH.
AT&T is still toying with absurdly low caps, even on Uverse, and equally absurd overage charges. People start getting hit with overage fees and I wonder how different the price will be?

Verizon has more going for it than speed since they are not, at least YET, talking about caps.

DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

It's not just about speeds

AT&T has IPTV. I wonder how that service will stack up against Vz's bundled tv option.
--
:: my trivial ramblings ::

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

Re: It's not just about speeds

Price wise or the actual product?

Verizon's product is way better, especially because it uses existing CATV standards.

DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
·Charter Pipeline

Re: It's not just about speeds

That's what I mean. AT&T's service offers things that Vz's service doesn't. So from a product perspective, does AT&T's TV product offer more attractive features over Vz's?
--
:: my trivial ramblings ::

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

Re: It's not just about speeds

I really don't care about features. I want the cable/phone/fiber company to give me a pipe to the internet and a slew of cable channels.

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

Honestly, no. Verizon doesn't do IPTV because they don't have to. AT&T uses IPTV because they are still limited by bandwidth across VDSL. IPTV or RF Overlay is just the transport, not the payload. Either can have very high quality or look like crap. Either can offer more channels then you can every watch. With IPTV, VOD is essentially just another channel to watch. With FiOS TV, it gets streamed over IP so there is a little extra in the implementation, but from the user there is no difference really. If anything, UVerses's IPTV is the lesser service as it's bandwidth constrained and can only stream several channels simultaneously.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice

I dont necessarily agree

quote:
Light Reading editor Phil Harvey e-mails me to note they've taken photographs of the only town in the U.S. where you can see AT&T and Verizon FTTH gear on the same block. AT&T forgoes VDSL/FTTN for some developments, where they run fiber to the home -- but they cap the bandwidth delivered back to the same speed of regular VDSL U-Verse (up to 18Mbps). That would seemingly give Verizon, whose top speed is 50Mbps, the advantage in any head to head battle.
That all depends on who you are asking. Sure, for some people who read this website it would appear that Verizon has the "advantage", but thats just not the case in reality. It has been reported time and time again that many customers are downgrading their service to lower speed tiers to save money. This will all come down to simply economics, "speed" will have nothing to do with who gets more business. If ATT offers are better priced option (especially in this economy) they they will get more subs. If Verizon offers the better package then they will get the subs. There will of course be a (very) few people who will pay more money just to get Verizon fiber, but to millions of Americans it all comes down to dollars and cents.
--
Комитет государственной безопасности

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

Re: I dont necessarily agree

said by wifi4milez See Profile :

It has been reported time and time again that many customers are downgrading their service to lower speed tiers to save money. This will all come down to simply economics, "speed" will have nothing to do with who gets more business.
Recently, with bundled pricing FiOS TV became cheaper by upgrading to faster service. Check out this thread for numerous instances.

I agree that it does come down to dollars and cents, but downgrading isn't always the only way to get cheaper service. Sometimes it just takes getting further into bed with a company to save more.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice

Re: I dont necessarily agree

said by cdru See Profile :

said by wifi4milez See Profile :

It has been reported time and time again that many customers are downgrading their service to lower speed tiers to save money. This will all come down to simply economics, "speed" will have nothing to do with who gets more business.
Recently, with bundled pricing FiOS TV became cheaper by upgrading to faster service. Check out this thread for numerous instances.

I agree that it does come down to dollars and cents, but downgrading isn't always the only way to get cheaper service. Sometimes it just takes getting further into bed with a company to save more.
My point was more that people are looking to save money as opposed to going with the carrier with the highest speeds. For this reason the typical arguments read in these forums (copper is dead, FTTH is the only way to go, etc.) hold no real water when it comes down to it.
--
Комитет государственной безопасности

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

Re: I dont necessarily agree

Yup - its just like business 101.
How many corps have off shored for bottom line... MANY
How many people shop at stores like Wal Mart vs. more expensive stores
How many will look for a good deal...especially when the economy is bad.

Hell... I don't need a bad economy to keep me from spending more than I have to... especially with no 'real' advantage to me.

shelby10763

join:2005-03-12
Greenville, NC
·Suddenlink

Too bad

Whats a horrible problem to have! Two Fiber providers competing against each other for business. We're stuck on 30 years old coax network that's been piecemealed together for the last 15 years.

And the current provider (Suddenlink) is to busy supporting other markets to provide any upfits.

woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
·EarthLink
·DSL EXTREME

hmmmm....

I live in Torrance, CA. Half the city is Att and the other half is Verizon. Neither one is offering the neighborhood I live in their service. My options are Roadrunner or DSL. I would love to get U-verse or Verizon, but for some reason can't. I live in an upscale part of town, single homes, no apartments, so it shouldn't be that expensive to fiber. May be there is hope...Peace
--
BlooMe
ieko

join:2008-03-20
Torrance, CA

Re: hmmmm....

I live in Torrance too and have fios, it's only available in the verizon part of town closest to the redondo beach border. I'm a few blcks from Del Amo though so that should give you an idea of the service area. I got it in summer of 2007.

woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

Re: hmmmm....

I live by lomita and crenshaw
--
BlooMe

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17

Re: hmmmm....

Well, Crenshaw...you said it! LOL

bigunk
Gort, Klattu Birada Nikto

join:2001-02-10
Santa Clarita, CA

Re: hmmmm....

I would say that too, except I know that area. I pass by there on the way to PV to see family. Nice area. Good demographics. Stupid carriers.
oz_racer

join:2005-08-26
Torrance, CA

Ditto. I live in the ATT part of Torrance. No U-Verse available to me, only ADSL. But Fios is the service I would really like to have and am willing to pay for the 20/5 type of plan. I hope one day soon Verizon will able to offer Fios here and provide some competition for ATT.

partysource

join:2000-11-25
Phoenix, AZ

1 edit

AT&T Caps Fiber

If your a company and going to cap fiber whats the use. Just open up the speed that is available. Much props to Verizon for bringing the 20/20 plan. Can you see me now? Ha Ha

dropshadow

join:2000-12-17
Plano, TX
clubs:

Re: AT&T Caps Fiber

no joke. uverse in my neighborhood is MAX 1.5 upstream. at my old house i had 20/20 FIOS. i **MISS** that. i hate uverse. i pray FIOS comes into my neighborhood. i live only a few miles from the subdivision in the article.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest

i think it's for practical reasons mostly. imagine having to train customer support agents for such a tiny portion of their user base. i imagine it would screw things up. i disagree with this strategy, as the positive PR AT&T would get from uncapping is needed.

iansltx_

@spcsdns.net

Yaknow, I'd love to have two fiber telcos to choose from. One with lower somewhat prices (ATT) and one with rip-roaring speed (Verizon). I'll bet this area will get some nice deals from Verizon and ATT in an attempt to get more customers. Here's hoping this idea takes off...
alchav

join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

I guess I'm not Surprised!

Even the Tech Geeks here on DSL Reports care more about the cost just like the Average Person. All people want is a decent Internet connection at a reasonable cost. That's because most people don't think about everything on one Pipe. I still think that AT&T U-Verse is limited, and they will run into problems when their subscriber base goes up along with demand on their Infrastructure. So I say Verizon FTTH FiOS is the best choice and will win out.
vinnie97

join:2003-12-05
Mesquite, TX

bah, one (or 2) whole subdivisions

This is a nonevent until it expands. I've a friend in the southern part of Garland, TX (just south of I-30) who is stuck in AT&T hell, where they haven't even deployed DSL. Verizon is only a block away...if this isn't about competing with AT&T, I sure wish Verizon would throw a bone about other planned overbuilding areas...
mlundin

join:2001-03-27
Lawrence, KS

I love...

That this guy apparently just walked around with bolt cutters and opened all of those cabinets to see what was inside. Did you all look at the pictures?
onthevirg

join:2008-01-17
Riverside, CA

Re: I love...

said by mlundin See Profile :

That this guy apparently just walked around with bolt cutters and opened all of those cabinets to see what was inside. Did you all look at the pictures?
I'm glad I'm not the only one who was wondering about that! First thing I thought was, "How in the HELL did he get in all those units??"

hownow

@optonline.net

one way,

so, the riaa/mpaa's plan to have comcast and at&t do this screw with the alleged pirate thing to limit and/or cancel their service.. well, what happens when they just subscribe to Verizon?

Oops.. at least in Texas..

tad2020

join:2007-07-17
Orange, CA

For the love of....

quote:
Others think that once Verizon gets a taste of greenfield profits, they'll expand the idea into states like California.
Yes please do! Many of us are sick of AT&T and would love to get Fios!
ross

join:2000-08-16

Why couldn't that be

Frisco, CA? San Francisco Greater Bay Area, that is. Drat, still stuck with the Ancient Technology & Terminally bad customer service company...

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

I'd take Verizon hands down over AT&T...

Mainly on principle. AT&T is rushing into the "loving" embrace of the RIAA, MPAA, Caps, metering, filters, etc

Verizon is resisting.

That right there means I'd prefer my $$$ to Verizon.

Too bad I don't get that choice.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
decifal

join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN

bring it

Ha! I would love to see TN somehow talk Verizon into providing service here... Just let em have the state franchise and let em tear some sheet up.. I wouldn't benefit, but i'd love to see ATT sweat a little.

heat84

join:2004-03-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL

This is bullshit!

This is bullshit! My neighborhood has neither and some are gonna have both!?

tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast

Re: This is bullshit!

said by heat84 See Profile :

This is bullshit! My neighborhood has neither and some are gonna have both!?

Really all 3 ATT, FIOS, and Cable, probably at very competitive prices. while all 3 still have territory with NOTHING.
It makes sense for all "greenfields" to be fully wired (cheap and easy at that point) but shows why broadband companies need goverment policy/regulation/ and enforcement to assure more uniform deployment.
for every greenfield they should do a equal deployment within a brownfield/unserved/underserved area
Slaytannic

join:2005-11-22
Denver, CO
·Comcast

Verizon FIOS

Verizon is also implementing its DNS redirect service for any "mis-spelled" urls. So lots of things that used to work are now being directed to Verizon's proprietary search engine.
I've seen it even try to redirect virus scan update's for corporate clients.
The only work around is to hard code different non verizon dns server address.
Didn't Cox try this and fail miserably a few years ago?

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

So let me get this straight. . . . .

Those areas lucky enough to get FTTH get crippled back to levels the vdsl people do? nice A T & T
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT

Nice pictures but...

Those guys shouldnt be opening up those cabinets like that.

tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

Re: Nice pictures but...

those cabinets should be LOCKED
gadgetvirt

join:2003-01-23
Fort Worth, TX

fiber laid waiting to be turned on

Verizon laid the fiber this past summer in our neighborhood and we're just waiting for it to be turned on. A source tells me it'll be first half-09 but can't/wouldn't give me specific dates. We've had U-verse available for a year or more but didn't bother switching since it was only FTTN. At the time AT&T could only 1 HD channel at a time, if you want to record or watch two or more HD channels at the same time you are out of luck. Since then AT&T allows 2 HD channels, still sad and pathetic. We have Charter cable and can't wait to dump them. Both Charter and AT&T had been bombarding us with mail ads. Charter even has gone so far as to offer 2 yr contracts for a "reduced" rate. I feel bad for those poor bastards that took that "deal," which wasn't even much of a deal.

A recent article about Verizon said it costs them $700 per home to laid fiber and another $700 to connect a home. That first $700 is whether or not the home subscribes to the service. That's a lot more than I would have guessed, especially the actual connection to the house.

Any day now I'll be firing Charter....
Forums » AT&T And Verizon FTTH On The Same Block?page: 1 · 2


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