 ender7074
join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO | Wow Thats a lot of dough for something as simple as text messages. I'll bet they still complain about it not costing enough though...
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
 ·Optimum Online
| Re: Wow said by jfmezei  :And since they charge for each SMS, there is accounting and probably logging involved which requires the distributed nodes to send accounting information to some central accounting system. Which is probably the largest cost in providing SMS service. 
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with every mistake we must surely be learning | |
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StockWatcher
@sbc.com | Or the Jackson estate can just go out and buy more AT&T stock especially while it's still in the toilet: down approx 39% from a year ago... | |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | Re: FAIL Did you notice where Karl said that it was theoretical, and yes they offer bundle plans?
You fail. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
| Re: FAIL said by manfmmd :Unlimited texting is $15.00 which at $.20 is 75 messages...I use well over 160-170 messages per month.. I'm sure most other people on the unlimited plan do likewise.. Do the math.. Unfortunately, AT&T has done the math and I would wager that the unlimited plans are priced right in line where it's cheaper to buy said unlimited plan than to just pay per text. Don't forget, it used to be $.1 per txt, then was raised to $.5, then $.10 and now $.20. The price hikes are to encourage people who otherwise wouldn't have signed up for an unlimited plan to do so. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: FAIL said by Matt :said by manfmmd :Unlimited texting is $15.00 which at $.20 is 75 messages...I use well over 160-170 messages per month.. I'm sure most other people on the unlimited plan do likewise.. Do the math.. Unfortunately, AT&T has done the math and I would wager that the unlimited plans are priced right in line where it's cheaper to buy said unlimited plan than to just pay per text. Don't forget, it used to be $.1 per txt, then was raised to $.5, then $.10 and now $.20. The price hikes are to encourage people who otherwise wouldn't have signed up for an unlimited plan to do so. except I don't ever text so I don't have a plan. So perhaps if they went to 1 cent per text I would actually text and thus they would actually make money. | |
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| | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Matt 0, Decimal arithmetic 4.
$.1 is the same as $.10 and both are less than $.5, as is $.2
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
1 edit | Re: FAIL said by jester121 :Matt 0, Decimal arithmetic 4. $.1 is the same as $.10 and both are less than $.5, as is $.2 LOL, thanks for the correction. I did mean .01. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by manfmmd :You fail to realize that all of the text messages aren't making AT&T $.20 per message both ways in most cases. That only applies to phones without a texting plan... The messaging rate of 65k per second likely also takes into account system message which the customer is not charged for.  edit to add: Unlimited texting is $15.00 which at $.20 is 75 messages...I use well over 160-170 messages per month.. I'm sure most other people on the unlimited plan do likewise.. Do the math.. And you don't realize the cost of those 75 messages is well under a penny. TOTAL. The fact is that of that $15 at&t charges for unlimited texting at least $14 is profit. So if only 10 million customers have unlimited texting at&t is still making $1.68 BILLION a year off of them. And at&t has to charge $500 per GB overage on their data plans why? They can't upgrade their network so they don't have to have 5 GB caps, why? | |
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | Re: FAIL "The fact is that of that $15 at&t charges for unlimited texting at least $14 is profit."
If this a fact then it should not be to hard for you to cite your sources. | |
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Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA | Re: FAIL While I agree there are many ways too look at this, when you consider how small each text is and compare that to general data & voice traffic you realize texts ARE all profit.
Source: Any previous SMS gripe article here in BBR. | |
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | Re: FAIL I don't doubt that there is a lot of profit in text messages but there is no way that there is so much profit that they have pure profit on 14 out of 15 bucks. | |
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Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
| Re: FAIL SMS is nothing more than data. Even if a user does 1000 texts per month that is only 160KB, or less than 1/5th of a megabyte.
So you think it costs AT&T more than $1 for 1/5th of a MB?
I guess it depends on how you do the accounting. | |
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mod_wastrel
join:2008-03-28
 ·magicjack.com
| said by battleop :...there is no way that there is so much profit that they have pure profit on 14 out of 15 bucks. Yeah... it's closer to 15 out of 15. (What does it "cost" to use the control channel for text messages? It costs as much to send 100 million as it does to send 1 million messages; the channel is there regardless. The cost for processing the messages is negligible--pennies... if that.) | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: FAIL deleted | |
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mod_wastrel
join:2008-03-28 | That's still a significant amount of profit without having any additional expenditure, which is the point after all--customers paying for a feature that costs the company nothing extra... and then doubling the rates.
Pass. | |
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sousademiami
join:2003-02-04
Miami, FL
1 edit | Lets say it's 1 cent per message.
Do the math.
AT&T Text Message Revenue per year is:
.01*65,000*60*60*24*365 = $20,498,400,000
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | Re: OVER 20 BILLION $/year...in texts That's 65,000 per second on the DAY that Michael Jackson died, not every day.
.01*65,000*60*60*24=$56,160,000 Still a lot of money. | |
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| | sven_kirk3
join:2002-07-23
Mableton, GA | WOW! They should be PAYING me because I am one of the ones that don't text EVERY second. | |
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Dustbuster
@sbc.com | your math assumes that there's a Michael Jackson death news event every day of the year - NOT LIKELY... | |
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C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Davenport, FL
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Actually, from AT&T, the Unlimited messaging is $20/month, or $30/month for a family plan.
The benefit (and burden) is that those phones capable of signing on to an instant messager (like AIM/MSN/YIM/etc.) are also counted in the list for these text messages, so I know for a fact my usage would get pretty high if I did have such a plan and capable phone.
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Front Line Force Fortress Forever | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: FAIL said by C0deZer0 :Actually, from AT&T, the Unlimited messaging is $20/month, or $30/month for a family plan. The benefit (and burden) is that those phones capable of signing on to an instant messager (like AIM/MSN/YIM/etc.) are also counted in the list for these text messages, so I know for a fact my usage would get pretty high if I did have such a plan and capable phone. It's counted against txt msgs only on non-Smartphone devices or devices without a data plan. At least, that's what the AT&T rep told me about my daughters LG Shine. | |
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StockWatcher
@sbc.com | good point! I'm sure AT&T would LOVE to do away with the all-you-can-eat data plans. My 15yr old daughter sent 3500 text messages last month and I only paid $15... | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: FAIL said by StockWatcher :
good point! I'm sure AT&T would LOVE to do away with the all-you-can-eat data plans. My 15yr old daughter sent 3500 text messages last month and I only paid $15...
Under the original SMS pricing, you should have only paid $3.50. | |
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boogi man
join:2001-11-13
Apo, AE
clubs: | sorta fail? so cut that by half? say 32,500 per sec? for the subscribed vs unsubscribed? and you are still talking big #'s $390,000/hr
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burrowowl
Sonic.Net
VIP
join:2003-01-22
Santa Rosa, CA | Oh no, not profits! And here I figured carriers would charge what the market would bear. If you think it's not worth $0.20 to send a brief message to somebody, I would recommend against doing so or finding an alternate means.
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey | ATT doesnt get it Text should be built into plans, so they get a profit, no matter how much you send. If you get a data plan , it should be a package. There shouldn't be a per txt charge. | |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | Re: ATT doesnt get it I agree there. My iPhone data plan is $30/month, and then a texting plan on top of that. Ridiculous. | |
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| | sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH | Re: ATT doesnt get it And then you have to pay for tethering to use the data you already paid for on top of that. | |
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| beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | Great idea. So instead of my $30 data pland and 20 texting how about Data plans are now officially $50 and include unlimited texting. Happy now? | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Re: ATT doesnt get it said by beaups :Great idea. So instead of my $30 data pland and 20 texting how about Data plans are now officially $50 and include unlimited texting. Happy now? i dont think you dont get it either. Do you remember when callerid, and voicemail was pay on cellphones. It just became part of the service. | |
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Neyland
join:2003-02-04
USA
| On the consumer? quote:
That said, uneducated consumers seem willing to pay these high prices, which puts the onus on users to realize they're being ripped off.
It's not like you have much of a choice from any provider if you text. You either pay by the text or in a forced bundle.
This is the exact metered billing ISPs want. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | 20 cents = 20 million text messages For those doubting at&t and the others are totally fucking everyone over. Even if you are on an unlimited plan and are sending 1 text every second 24/7 you should be paying less than a nickle per month. | |
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notext
@comcast.net
 from:
rameus
| Texting addicts are like cigarette addicts. They're willing to get ripped off to support their habit. Their loss. | |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | Re: Texting addicts are like cigarette addicts. you should totally tweet that. mind blowing stuff. | |
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sdi 9sdifj
@apollogrp.edu | 24 hours $11, 232, 000, 000 one way
$22, 464, 000, 000 two way | |
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compuwizz
join:2001-03-05
Blacksburg, VA
| SMS Aggregaters definitely saw a boost The hour that he died, Sybase365 saw a large boost. See this blog entry.
»blogs.sybase.com/wdudley/?p=525
Its estimated that in the SMS ecosystem there were 166k messages sent per second that hour.
Sybase365 set a traffic record between 6 and 7 PM EDT.
Lets see what records Sybase breaks this holiday weekend on MMS and SMS. | |
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Michieru
@bellsouth.net
| hmm. I am actually surprised people are complaining about the cost on service. Either you use it or you don't. A cellphone is not some necessity to you. You are paying for access to their network so you can place voice calls, send data and bounce back and forth text messages.
They have every right to charge what they feel like for the cost of service. If you are not satisfied go ahead and go somewhere else. Their network, their rules, their price.
If it comes to a point where I feel that the cost of texting is not worth paying that extra $15 or more for price hikes then I would simply stop texting and find me some other means of communication. | |
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| sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
| Re: hmm. Monopolies/Oligopolies do not have the right to charge what they want. Corporations do not have "rights" as defined by the constitution. The very concept of a corporation is derived entirely through law, and can readily be redefined whenever necessary. The point of their existence is for the betterment of the citizens of the country, for the betterment of society, etc.. When their existence actually takes away or actively limits the amenities and luxuries people can attain, all for the sake of corporate greed, then their actions are unjustifiable and possibly unconstitutional. This is why monopolies like Ma Bell are broken up.
Besides, nothing beyond water, food and shelter are "necessary". As a developed country I should hope we aspire to more than the bare essentials. | |
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Alakar
Facts do not cease to exist when ignored
join:2001-03-23
Milwaukee, WI
·AT&T U-Verse
| Profit Margin AT&T's net profit margins run about 10% on average. It's pretty obvious that most people on this site don't understand how a business runs, especially Karl. $14 profit on $15 service? A service that costs AT&T nothing to provide? Yeah right.
First quarter earnings for AT&T were $30.6 billion with net profit of $3.1 billion. That's $0.57 per share. A 10% profit margin is what most successful companies average.
»www.foxbusiness.com/story/market···tations/
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| bakorican
join:2004-02-28
germany
| Re: Profit Margin That all depends how you define the word PROFIT. If Profit is the amount of money a company makes before you subtract imaginary bullshit that accounting wizards dream up, then your definition fails. If you define the word Profit as that amount of cash that's left over after a company has exhausted all possible tricks and scams to reduce the amount of money they need to pay taxes on, then you are right on the money (no pun intended).
It is hilarious how much regurgitated bullshit some of you believe to be as truth. | |
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cameronsfx
join:2009-01-08
Pensacola, FL
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·AT&T DSL Service
| said by Alakar :AT&T's net profit margins run about 10% on average. It's pretty obvious that most people on this site don't understand how a business runs, especially Karl. $14 profit on $15 service? A service that costs AT&T nothing to provide? Yeah right. First quarter earnings for AT&T were $30.6 billion with net profit of $3.1 billion. That's $0.57 per share. A 10% profit margin is what most successful companies average. » www.foxbusiness.com/story/market···tations/ Profit matters. Net Value really, really matters. Cash Flow really, really, really matters.
Example
Company A has $2 billion in rev and $200 mi in profit.
That's 10%. They also have $300 mil in positive cash flow. Taking debt and assets into account they are worth really say $500 million.
Company B $2 billion in rev and $250 mi in profit.
That's 12.5% profit. They have $100 mil in positive cash flow.
Taking debt and assets into account they are worth really say $500 million.
Who is worth more?
Company A since they have $300 mil in positive cash flow (really defined as profits not accounted for). So, really, Company A has a $500 mil "profit" or 25% profit. Company A also pays less taxes than B. Eventually, Company B is in trouble since not enough positive cash flow to sustain itself. When you see negative cash flow, that means those profits reported are really a smokescreen.
Herein, cash flow makes all the difference. | |
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purwater
Premium
join:2002-10-25
Swords Creek, VA
| Set a more reasonable price I'm not one of the profit nazis that wants companies to only make a certain amount of money. We technically have a free market except that in many markets the options for cell service and broadband are limited. In my market I only have one option for broadband so I pony up the money for the mediocre service. For cellular service I had Alltel, Verizon, and Ntelos. Now I have Verizon and Ntelos. At&t is technically available and my job gave me a new iPhone 3GS last week, but service was so horrible I just stayed with my Blackberry through Verizon. The biggest problem is that all of the cellular companies seem to miraculously arrive at the same or very similar pricing for pay per use or unlimited texting. The same goes for the 5GB of "unlimited" data. I know that texting and data aren't essential services, but many of us rely on them for our job and personal uses. I do think it's very reasonable for a person paying for unlimited data on an iPhone or Blackberry to get unlimited texting as well. I mean we're already paying high prices for the barely broadband service, so why not get competitive and throw in the text for the same price? None of the carriers will do this to gain customers because they all know they can just keep in line and make a fortune. Just look at the minute plans for example on the national carriers. $59.99 will get you 900 nationwide minutes for the 3 biggest carriers. I remember when prices varied quite a bit for similar minute plans. Slowly each carrier started copying the others so that they don't have to compete on pricing anymore. It's too fishy when they all seem to increase pricing on texting at the same time and all seem to have the same pricing on data and voice as well with the exception of Sprint's everything plan. Maybe if they would consider throwing in the unlimited texting with a data plan more dumbphone users would opt for smartphones and in the end they would actually make more profit while the consumer would feel like they got a deal by getting data for only $10 more than their texting plan. Of course I could be wrong about everything. | |
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Paulie
@sbcglobal.net
| SMS text messages there are a few points that seem to be missing
1) if you want texting, you have to pay for incoming texts. Because of this, you have to either not have texting or have the higher message buckets to not get abused on per text charges.
2) unlimited texts on the 3g and 3gs iphones are $20, not $15
3) there are no alternatives. if you want an iphone, you only have AT&T so i can't just go to verizon or some other competitor to get better pricing/options on texting because they don't have iphones.
4) the reason this is such a hot topic is that most people over the age of (lets say) 45 grew up in a world of "cost plus" pricing which most people would consider fair. If it costs you $0.01 per text, charging me $0.03 could be considered fair. In the last 20 years or so, the model has changed to "what the market will bear" which is fine with competition, but since there is limited to no competition with most products, it turns into, "what the market will putup with before starting to riot"....cost $0.01, price $0.20 seems excessive....
p. | |
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AnonMe
@verizon.net
| Txt is a rip off Txting is a money making machine for the carriers. I have a G1 with data plan. I decided to use built in IM app to message friends instead of txting their phone as I only had 400 txts includ in my plan. I was shocked when I learned all my IM's were being recorded as TXT messages. Pay $25/mo for unlim data and they try to charge you for sending IM's. | |
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Anonymous78
@sbc.com
| 6 cents/message - Are you crazy?? I don't know where this place comes up with 6 cents/message number for text bundles. 95% of text messages sent and received are based on bundled, unlimited monthly packages. This does not generate any profits for AT&T or another carrier for that matter. | |
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AT&T: 65,000 SMS Sent Per SECOND
Re: FAIL
Sounds fine to me