 
oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
1 edit | Yeah... We really need the internet managed like they did the oil for food program and their operations in the Congo.
No thanks.
--
Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
|
 | 
Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| Re: Yeah... said by oliphant  :We really need the internet managed like they did the oil for food program and their operations in the Congo. Seriously, why is everyone so eager to pass the buck to an agency as incompetent and corrupt as the UN?
--
Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey
iPod Shuffle=iPos
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam: 4400+ | |
|
| | 
AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
 ·Comcast
| Re: Yeah... said by Nerdtalker :Seriously, why is everyone so eager to pass the buck to an agency as incompetent and corrupt as the UN? It's only certain countries, primarily those who would like to hobble the US economy.
--
Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
|
| | | 
Descent
Wrap It Up
Premium
join:2000-11-10
WDC Suburb
| Re: Yeah... We invented it...its ours. where do they get the authority? if they want a world one why dont they just make a new one? See how many people switch over..
--
BBr runs clan gaming servers! What are you waiting for, check them out! | |
|
| | | 
zoom314
Superman
Premium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA
| said by AthlGrond :said by Nerdtalker :Seriously, why is everyone so eager to pass the buck to an agency as incompetent and corrupt as the UN? It's only certain countries, primarily those who would like to hobble the US economy. Yeah like the French government, Who thinks they are a super power.  The French have been at odds with US since the End of WWI and for their greedy stupidity They had to be rescued and for some they aren't too great full. Others there are great full that They were liberated of course. The French Government is an Ally in name only as they withdrew from the Military part of NATO back in the 50's or 60's, They are however part of the Political part though for all the good that does, But then It shows that the French can't be counted on in an emergency.
--
Firefox forever!»mysite.verizon.net/zoom314/ | |
|
| | 
n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| said by Nerdtalker :Seriously, why is everyone so eager to pass the buck to an agency as incompetent and corrupt as the UN?
While I agree 100% that the UN has become a corrupt, useless organization, it should be noted that the ITU predates the U.N. by almost a century (see » www.itu.int/aboutitu/overview/history.html ). While it is part of the UN now, it was an independent entity and continues to do a pretty good job regulating radio as well as international calling. Granted we need another bureaucracy looking over the internet like we need a packet storm but seeing where things are headed with ICANN I can't help but wonder if a change might be good. It should also be noted that the Universal Postal Union is another one of those UN agencies that predates the UN (see » www.upu.int/about_us/en/glance.html - found in 1874). They too do a pretty good job and I have yet to hear any complaints about international mail. --
I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
|
| | |
AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
·Comcast
| Re: Yeah... said by n2jtx :Granted we need another bureaucracy looking over the internet like we need a packet storm but seeing where things are headed with ICANN I can't help but wonder if a change might be good. My complaints about international mail can wait, will you explain what you see wrong with ICANN that the UN would be a fix for?
--
Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
|
| | | | 
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Re: Yeah... ICANN is incompetent. | |
|
| | | | |
AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
·Comcast
| Re: Yeah... said by kapil :ICANN is incompetent. And the UN isn't?
--
Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
|
| | | | | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Yeah... No. The UN does a fair amount of good. You are confusing the UN with the Security Council. The SC is just one of the UN bodies. The proposal is to let the ITU manage the Internet. The ITU is another UN body but it predates the UN and does a fantastic job of managing the telecom interconnections and standards between nations. Without the ITU you'd be limited to calling NANPA member countries with your telephone.
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
| | | | | | |
AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
·Comcast
| Re: Yeah... I won't stipulate that a big long standing bureaucracy is better without some convincing.
So, what aspect of managing the internet would the ITU do better than ICANN? And what would it do worse? (In your opinion.)
--
Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
|
| | | | | | | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Yeah... If you knew the history of ICANN and the history of the ITU, you wouldn't ask me that question.
The management of ITU is infintely better than that of ICANN. I won't do your work for you...go do some googling and come back with why you think the ITU ISN'T a better choice and I will do my best to convince you otherwise.
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
·Comcast
| Re: Yeah... said by kapil :If you knew the history of ICANN and the history of the ITU, you wouldn't ask me that question. The management of ITU is infintely better than that of ICANN. I won't do your work for you...go do some googling and come back with why you think the ITU ISN'T a better choice and I will do my best to convince you otherwise. Too bad, in the absence of a stated reason I'll have to assume you don't have real one.
--
Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Yeah... I do. But I am not going to give you a position and then defend the counter-position. Tell me why you think the ITU is a bad choice and we can debate. I am not going to do your research for you. ...or was your claim based on redneck "patriotism" and not logical reasoning?
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
·Comcast
| Re: Yeah... said by kapil :I do. But I am not going to give you a position and then defend the counter-position. Tell me why you think the ITU is a bad choice and we can debate. I am not going to do your research for you. ...or was your claim based on redneck "patriotism" and not logical reasoning? You are the one wanting to change things, it's in your court to explain why.
The current situation requires little defense since the Internet does appear to be working. (Last I checked anyway.)
Which is more reasonable? The person who wants to change things without any stated reason, or the person who wants a continuation of a functioning Internet?
I know which one I'm in favor of, but feel free to convince me that I'm wrong. (Hint: I won't find yelling "You're wrong!" convincing.)
--
Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Yeah... Once again, spend some time researching ICANN. Join some of the mailing lists, volunteer on some of the committees. The only reason the Internet hasn't crumbled under ICANN is because of its distributed architecture and because the "geeks" still have a fair amount of say in how the underlying nuts and bolts of the internet work. No thanks to ICANN or the US Department of Commerce.
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO | Re: Yeah... So what is going to change that will cause the crumbling?
--
Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO | Re: Yeah... The silence is all the reply anyone here needs. There isn't a single compelling reason to move from ICANN to the ITU/UN.
--
Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
1 edit | Re: Yeah... Calling a redneck a redneck isn't racism. Besides "redneck" isn't a race. And please tell me how the "rural whites" have been wronged oh so gravely by racist attitudes that we must now be politically correct about addressing inbred fools who will have you believe that there is only one country on this planet and it can do no wrong. Tell me why "God Bless America"...why the hell not "God Bless Everyone"? | |
|
| | | | | | | | | 
N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Yeah... "Redneck", as defined by Dictionary.com is:
"Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States."
Racism, as defined by dictionary.com is:
"The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others"
When you use the term redneck as you do, you are implying that people, who are part of the "white,rural laboring class" are somehow inferior to yourself because of their inclusion in that group. It fits the definition to a tee. You may not like it, but it sure sounds like you believe you are somehow better than the folks you call "rednecks", making you at least SOUND racist.
As far as white rural working class folks being oppressed, nowhere did I see in the definition of racism the word oppression. Someone can be a racist without oppressing any given race or group.
Someone doesn't have to be a member of a "minority" group to be the victim of racism. Conversely, just because someone is a member of a "minority" group, does not make them the automatic victim of racism.
As far as being politically correct, who the hell are you to determine who deserves to be treated with dignity and respect? You say "God bless everyone" in your post, while you essentially say everyone who fits within the definition of a "redneck" deserves to be cast aside, as though their opinions count for not.
You, sir, with all due respect, are one of the most bigoted sounding people I've ever encountered in any discussions here. I hope you can find a place in the world for us rural working class white folks. I never oppressed anyone, and am a second generation immigrant. I'm the first person in my family to ever graduate from college. But you judge me not by the content of my character, but by the fact that I'm White, rural and working class.
Tell me that's not racism..... | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Re: Yeah... That would require him to be intellectually honest for once.
Not gonna happen.
--
Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
|
| | macaholic
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Jackson Heights, NY | well I think better the UN than Verizon...aka the private interests that really run our country.
--
"You don't subject minority rights to a referendum." Justice Minister Irwin Cotler of Canada | |
|
| Queasy
join:2004-01-20
Lawrenceville, GA | We should make a deal that if the UN is not involved in any graft, corruption, rape, and does not overlook human rights abuses for 20 years than we MAY consider talking with them about the possibility that one day they could get involved with ICAAN. | |
|
| |
| |
oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Re: Yeah... LOL, yeah..."Hot UN Peacekeeper action"...with the recent flood accusations of sexual attrocities perpetrated by UN Peacekeepers in the Congo they have tons of adult material.
--
Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
|
| | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Yeah... UN does not have its own military...soldiers are borrowed from member nations. There are good apples and bad ones in every group. We don't contribute to US peacekeeping missions...yet our soldiers manage to misbehave anyway. Or did you forget Abu Ghraib?
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
| | | |
AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
·Comcast
| Re: Yeah... said by kapil :...yet our soldiers manage to misbehave anyway. Or did you forget Abu Ghraib? The primary difference is that we will put our troops on trial and punish the guilty ones.
Who is it that will protect people from rogue UN peace keepers? No one in the UN it would appear.
--
Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
|
| | | | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Yeah... Actually, in the recent incident, to which apparently Oliphant is referring to, the home nation of the offending soldiers DID recall the soldiders in question and court martial them.
Then there's the U.S.....which won't join the ICJ because we don't want our soldiers to be held to the standards that the rest of the world has agreed to.
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
| | | | | |
AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
·Comcast
| Re: Yeah... said by kapil :Actually, in the recent incident, to which apparently Oliphant is referring to, the home nation of the offending soldiers DID recall the soldiders in question and court martial them. Then there's the U.S.....which won't join the ICJ because we don't want our soldiers to be held to the standards that the rest of the world has agreed to. LOL
We would be one of the few countries that would actually obey the ICJ if we were to agree to it. I'm sure that wouldn't bother you though. 
--
Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
|
| | | | | | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Re: Yeah... Nope. Once again...we decided not to join ratify the ICJ. The rest of the world already abides by the rules.
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
| | | | | | | xrobertcmx
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Sterling, VA
clubs: | The ICJ actually seems like a good idea in many respects. We however do not like the idea that there is any higher authority and that we could be held accountable for our actions.
--
4 More years and we won't have a country. | |
|
| | | | | | | |
AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
·Comcast
| Re: Yeah... said by xrobertcmx :The ICJ actually seems like a good idea in many respects. We however do not like the idea that there is any higher authority and that we could be held accountable for our actions. I agree in principle that it does seem like a good idea. I also know that it would be used as a political tool against the US.
I'm also sure I'm not the only one who thinks that.
--
Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Yeah... If there is one nation that is guilty of using the U.N. to meet its own domestic political ends, it's the U.S. We think the UN is there to serve us...we don't treat it as an international forum where the world cimmunity gathers to share ideas, resolve disputes and make a better tomorrow.
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
| | | | | | | baylorguy
join:2004-09-30
San Antonio, TX
| said by AthlGrond :said by kapil :We would be one of the few countries that would actually obey the ICJ if we were to agree to it. I'm sure that wouldn't bother you though. Yeah, kind of like when we pulled out of the World Court after a decision against us in 1983 over Nicaragua. The only reason we haven't had a torrential amount of security council resolutions against us is because we have veto power. We are the warmongering country, when are Americans going to realize that. We want to create an international system of governance, and a community of nations but we act like it is the United States of Earth and we get to subject every other state to do our bidding. We are not always going to be the big kid on the block and we should treat other countries the way we want to be treated when we aren't so high on the totem poll. | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | |
AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
·Comcast
| Re: Yeah... said by Tsume :I think ICANN does a fine job the way it is, and there's no purpose for moving it to the ITU. There certainly hasn't been one put forth in this thread anyway. (Despite plenty of opportunity to provide even just one reason.)
--
Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Yeah... You need a reason, do you? How's this.
How about making a statement to the entire world that regardless of all the bad press we get because of the village idiot from Texas and his posse, we are a fair minded people. And we as a people value cooperation, global thinking, a multilateral and pluralistic approach to solving the world's problems and that we are capable of thinking about what is in the best interests of humanity not just Americans.
How about making a statement, however symbolic, that the one remaining superpower hasn't given up on those less fortunate than us...and that today we share with the rest of the world the awesome responsibility of managing a tool, a technology that has caused a paradigm shift in the way people talk to each other, the way we reach out and touch one another, the way we learn, gather information, get news about our greatest victories and our most tragic tragedies. And because we're so open minded about sharing our greatest gift to humanity - the internet - there is hope yet and perhaps that we, all of us together, can also overcome other petty problems of humanity like the AIDS crisis, poverty, hungry children, illiteracy and disease.
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO | Re: Yeah... I think I can safely stop waiting for a reason why ICANN would be better replaced by ITU/UN at this point, since it's clear you're unaware of any.
--
Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| So the rest of the world is out to get us? You're telling me that the standard estalished by the ICJ that is good enough for every other soldier in the world is not good enough for Chucky Graner? We don't want Abu-Ghraib style antics by our soldiers to warrant punishment...and that is why we didn't ratify the ICJ.
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
| 
Kompressor
Premium
join:2002-02-12
Huntington Beach, CA
1 edit | "The international community wants to shift control of the Internet from U.S. based ICANN to the United Nations."
Who cares what the international community wants, and screw the United Nations.
What will the they want next, to shift control of the U.S. to the UN? | |
|
| |
See 8 replies to this post |
|
|
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | The Security Council is not the same as the ITU. | |
|
|
oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | And the troll of the week award goes to Kapil. | |
|
| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| if the UN had control they would start wanting to control whats on the internet. also atm there are core DNS servers that are US located and if the UN took over the DNS core would probally end up being relocated and you cant just move the most important DNS without taking the net offline.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|
| |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Re: Yeah... There is no "core" ...they are called the root servers...and they are already spread all over the world.
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
|
oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
3 edits | With all the displeasure some anti-American Communist bedwetters seem to have, you would think they would simply STFU and move to France.
Meanwhile I love that they lost the elections not just the Presidency but even more seats in the House and Senate...something not done in decades. And I love that they've got their panties in a bunch about it so much that they'll resort to calling anyone who disagrees with them a Nazi or redneck. I love that FNC has higher ratings than all of their leftist propagandizing competitors put together and that Air America and NPR can't pull a ratings point. I love that the UN is irrelevant. I love that old Europe is irrelevant. It's great.
All these jokers turned a blind eye to the 100,000's murdered by Saddam, the pre-teen rape rooms and the like, but get in a twist over little more than fraternity pranks at a prison full of murders and rapists. These nations that continuously bitch about the United States are always the first in line for a handout or expect the United States to foot the bill.
Well the next time countries in Africa are ravaged by HIV/AIDS we should keep our $15 billion taypayer dollars and give them the finger. The next time Muslims are getting slaughtered in some dumpster republic like Kosovo while the UN sits on their hands I hope we think better and let Europe handle their own problems. When South Korea gets nervous because Clinton took the word of a Communist dicator who "promised" not to develop nukes while he gave them the means to do it...they should think twice about marching in the streets bitching about America which is the only thing between them and the horrors of Communism. When the anti-American gov'ts of S.E. Asia piss and moan about the U.S. military delivering aid to areas devistated by the Tsunami I say fine...why bother. Let them handle their own messes. Don't beg for a billion in handouts then bitch about how you're getting it. And as for Europe, perhaps France would have been better off under Nazi control (since their per capita production went up) or Western Europe under the thumb of Stalinist Russia. These these socialist kooks could have their dreams of free heathcare, anti-semitism and deathsquads. When Mexicans can chant anti-American rhetoric and "Osama, Osama" at a soccer game and nothing is said, we ought to give consideration to doing what Mexico does to illegals in their country...deporting the 10 million illegal aliens who are sucking billions from our economy, keeping wages of legal immigrants low, ruining our schools and closing our hospitals.
All of these anti-semetic anti-American gov'ts in the UN can all KMA. For the first time in a while the United States is finally doing what every other country has done for themselves...and that's looking out for their best interests. If they don't like that America does what is in their best interests...tough. I have a hard time taking anyone who sides with gov'ts who would overlook pre-teen rape rooms and mass executions of 100,000's of innocents simply for oil money. France, Germany and Russia took the side of the terrorist enemies of the United States and for what...a few billion in stolen oil money. And who made it possible for billions to be funnelled from starving Iraqi children and into the hands of Saddam and European cronies...the UN.
If the UN and Eurotrash gov't are pissed because we won't bend over for them and give some socialist hack court jurisdiction over our citizens...tough. If they're all pissed because we won't bend over and decimate our economy with they joke of Kyoto while other nations like those in Central America and even China get off scott free, F-them.
I'll start considering the opinions of Europeans and the socialist whiners supporting them when they for once in their lives consider the concerns of the United States.
So excuse me all to hell if I don't want some worthless inept international body taking control over what the United States spent taxpayer dollars to develop. If they don't like it...they can build their own.
Self-loathing anti-American tree hugging commie bedwetters need not reply as their worthless opinions will be ignored.
But remember, I voted for the ITU takeover before I voted against it. 
--
Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
|
| | 
vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA | Re: Yeah... Geez, when it comes to defending Bush's actions on Iraq ("to liberate the people") you come off like a flaming liberal. | |
|
Roberto W
@robot-rx.com | Wonderful... This may be a US centered view, but this strikes me as a UN grasp for power...
I would rather have a different organization running something like this. | |
|
|
See 17 replies to this post |
|
vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA | All things aren't creating equal Yay, China will get to lead the way and show the world what freedom on the internet is all about. | |
|
rahlquist
Redeye
join:2001-10-30
Villa Rica, GA
| No way Jacko As I see it the internet is governed fine now. What benifit can they bring show me just one. As I see it this is a way for all the closed minded nations (china etc) to try to control the content. How would you like to have a blog post a anti Chinese(sp) sentiment and have the UN police take your site down because of unacceptable content. Think I am being extreme? Tell that the the people who have already been affected by UN accords in the US.
--
The difference between foresight and hindsight is only a matter of when you bother to think things through. | |
|
dsless
join:2001-05-16
Pittsburgh, PA | Just Say No to the UN So now they want us to pay them for something we do already. Lets just leave the UN and leave the internet to the USA. After all we created it. | |
|
|
See 13 replies to this post |
|
rudnicke
Premium
join:2004-10-23
Rantoul, IL | Freakin UN The most irritating organization on this planet. America needs to get OUT of the UN, and kick them OUT of New York. | |
|
| 
woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA | Re: Freakin UN If you kick the un out who is going to pay all their parking fines?
--
BlooMe | |
|
| | dsless
join:2001-05-16
Pittsburgh, PA | Re: Freakin UN They don't pay them anyhow! Diplomatic imunity.... | |
|
| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Diplomatic Immunity shouldnt cover parking fines to begin with, if i park in front of a Hydrent the NYPD can tow and fine me. a Diplomat should be no different.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|
Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Same Old UN Bashing What a bunch of dittohead Right Wing Nazi extremists all of you are. This is the same garbage I hear parroted all over talk radio. Is this Bill O'Reilly's talking points or maybe Sean Hannity's scripted kiss ups?
Why don't any of you take a minute and look at some of the good the UN has done.
For instance there was....um...
Oh yea, there was the time they ...um...no that sucked too.
Uhhh...mmmmm....crap.
OK. You're right. They suck.
All Right. New Plan.
We Invade the UN.
Lets put our biotoxins to some good use.
NV | |
|
| 
hurleyp
join:2000-06-20
Ottawa, ON | Re: Same Old UN Bashing Personally I'd prefer an Internet controlled UN.
--
"I reject your reality and substitute my own." | |
|
| |
| | john262
join:2003-09-26
Elko, NV | Re: Same Old UN Bashing I think it was meant to be tongue in cheek. He was actually making fun of people who use that type of language in all seriousness. | |
|
| |
Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Choice Quotes One of the most important changes was the early stages, when the Internet started, when ICANN started in 1998. The purpose was to exclude governments (but that didn't work). People realize today that the governments worldwide have to play a role. What people? I certainly don't see why the world governments have to play a role.
People say the Internet flourished because of the absence of government control. I do not agree with this view. I argue that in any country, if the government opposed Internet service, how do you get Internet service? So a country can claim that the Internet flourished solely because they didn't choose to squash it? As for how to get Internet service when the government opposes it, check Saudi Arabia's black market.
If there are any Internet governance structure changes in the future, I think government rules will be more important and more respected. Translation: Any country can make a rule and the Internet will have to be altered to respect it? So Syria or Iran could pass a law stating that no-one on the Internet could have materials critical of Islam or of their governments and we would have to abide by it? Or perhaps they would simply get one of their diplomats placed on a UN rule-making body and have them sneak verbiage in to make this rule? (Kind of like how some US congressmen sneak otherwise controversial legislation into important spending bills.)
I didn't want to see the Internet reduced to abiding by the most stringent of community standards when the Communications Decency Act was passed and I certainly don't want to see the Internet reduced to abiding by the most stringent of national standards.
--
-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ | |
|
|
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Choice Quotes That is not how the ITU operates. I read your posts here frequently...and most of them are full of informed comments. Check your facts on the ITU.
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
| |
Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Re: Choice Quotes said by kapil :That is not how the ITU operates. I read your posts here frequently...and most of them are full of informed comments. Check your facts on the ITU. My comments didn't concern the ITU specifically but the motives of the countries behind the "UN must control the Internet" movement. Some of the countries (such as China and Syria) don't exactly have the best record of allowing free speech and tolerating dissenting viewpoints. I'm sure those countries would love to be able to squash various site that disapprove of their regimes even if the sites and all who operate them don't reside in those countries. Give the UN control of the Internet and I think that it would only be a matter of time before some country tries to get an Internet speech control mechanism enacted (even if it's only a very stringent/broad anti-libel language).
I'm a big fan of "if it's not broke, don't fix it" and I don't think that the Internet is broken. (At least not in a way that the UN would be best suited to fixing it.)
--
-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ | |
|
| |
Jehu
Premium
join:2002-09-13
MA | YES! As I said before, this is a great idea, and Syria should head up the UN Internet division.
--
| |
|
vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD | Makes no sense. Was not the technology pioneered here? | |
|
footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO | Slam the UN Gee, I was going to slam the UN here, but for once I can't think of anything relevant to say that hasn't been ably covered by others. I'm so proud of you all.....sniff... | |
|
woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
·EarthLink
·DSL EXTREME
| Hmmmmmmmmm........ "The United States is currently assessed 25% of the UN budget, except for peacekeeping. Its peacekeeping assessment is 30.5223%. According to the U.S. State Department"
this needs to stop.....shouldn't we get 25% of the vote?
--
BlooMe | |
|
|
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Re: Hmmmmmmmmm........ We get better than a 25% vote. We get a veto. And we (ab)use it profusely.
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
| |
N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Hmmmmmmmmm........ said by kapil :We get better than a 25% vote. We get a veto. And we (ab)use it profusely. China, France, England, and Russia all get a veto on the security counsel.
I doubt they all contribute as much as the US does to the UN's annual budget.... | |
|
| | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Hmmmmmmmmm........ Go look it up. Go see how much we're supposed to contribute and how much we actually do. And how much we've cut back in our contribution. Go check when the last time was that we sent a soldier for a UN peacekeeping mission. Now go check when the last time we used our veto. While you're at it, also check how much more we use our veto compared to other veto wielding nations.
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA |  How about a compromise?
| |
|
|
See 15 replies to this post |
|
guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| It's The United States internet A few posters have said name calling is a weak arguement.Whatever I'm more than able to slink
into the gutter and get lower than any U.N rep
Bottom line.Its The United States Internet and
it should stay that way. Screw Houlin Zhao.Screw
Kofi Annan.Screw the U.N.Screw any third world
country that dont have a pot to pizz in nor a
window to throw it out of.Oh Yea Screw the ITU
also.Let them go develop their own internet.If
they want to control and fugg it up.Which BTW
is all they'll accomplish.Something like sex
for a months internet access. (Or Bush We'll
be forced to send in the Marines to clean it up j/k | |
|
thisismyname1
join:2004-07-26
00000
| UN=worse Internet I think the USA already made the Internet quite strict already. I can imagine what the UN would do. Laws all over our ass that saying any country sucks would be banned. Saying anything bad about a country would not be allowed and that is just the beggining. In all seriousness it would suck if the UN got a hold of control over the Internet. The USA has already made it strict enough as it needs to get.
--
Freedom of expression should not be hampered by the unwillingness of others to accept things.-NinjaMaster | |
|
dpierce
Lazyrabbitt
Premium
join:2002-09-30
Cream Ridge, NJ
| ITU control of the Internet I am really surprised about the amount of posters that after reading the past articles and this one didn't even spend the time to research the group that is proposed to take control of the Internet for the UN. I will be honest, my initial response to the articles is the same as most people on this forum "We made it, we should keep it."
However, the internet has grown much more than it was ever imagined in it conception. It is a global exchange of information and ideas.
What I don't get is everyone's anti-International feeling in this forum. The ITU has the United States as a state member, almost 20% of the sector members are US, and around 40% of the sector associates are US. I just don't see where people are getting that the US interests in the Internet would be shutout.
--
You can make a difference. Join Team Discovery! | |
|
| PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| It's bad, bad reporting ... said by dpierce :I am really surprised about the amount of posters that after reading the past articles and this one didn't even spend the time to research the group that is proposed to take control of the Internet for the UN. I will be honest, my initial response to the articles is the same as most people on this forum "We made it, we should keep it." However, the internet has grown much more than it was ever imagined in it conception. It is a global exchange of information and ideas. What I don't get is everyone's anti-International feeling in this forum. The ITU has the United States as a state member, almost 20% of the sector members are US, and around 40% of the sector associates are US. I just don't see where people are getting that the US interests in the Internet would be shutout. If I see one more headline from some dopey reporter about a "U.N.-controlled" internet, I'll scream.
First off, all the technical and network architecture standards will continue to be managed by ISOC, the Internet Society, and its wings the IETF and IAB. Just as they are today.
What's being talked about is to have the Internet top-level tree managed by the ITU, NOT the U.N., instead of ICANN.
The ITU has been around since the 1860's, writes most of the technical standards that the world's communications networks run on, and has nothing to do with the political arm of the U.N. it just happens to be one of several scientific and specialized agencies now attached to the U.N., but operates largely independent of them, and has its own Convention, membership, and operating budget. As another poster noted, U.S. technology interests dominate most groups.
Too bad the people reporting on this subject are too dense to get this. Or maybe they intentionally mislead people to stir up contraversy.
BTW, another U.N. specialized agency, the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), is already involved in Internet naming. It's where you go for arbitration services when a dispute arises over who owns a domain name. And you don't see the sky falling as a result, do you?
What wrong with ICANN? Well the internet is supposed to be international in scope (remember the Web was invented at CERN in Switzerland), but the ICANN domain structure is often criticized for being too U.S.-centric. Which it is. | |
|
| |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: It's bad, bad reporting ... You make too much sense...are you also a fellow "pinkie commie"? 
Seriously...I didn't think anyone would point out the facts...thanks for doing that!
It's really REALLY hard to convince people who have never ventured outside their STATE let alone outside the U.S. that there exists a world outside these 50 states...and, dare I say it, it doesn't revolve around the U.S.
It is high time that the TLD management goes international. Already there are more internet users outside the U.S. than within....so the management of the TLDs needs to reflect the user base and its needs.
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
|
| | |
footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| Re: It's bad, bad reporting ... said by kapil :You make too much sense...are you also a fellow "pinkie commie"? That would be "Pinko Commie". Gotta get the lingo right. | |
|
damonlab
Premium
join:2001-05-02
Detroit, MI
clubs:
1 edit | Sitefinder Sitefinder was enough to make me ticked of at the likes of ICANN. I believe any organization that let a monster such as sitefinder go for as long as it did needs to be cut off.
Anybody else. | |
|
|
See 6 replies to this post |
|
Ardan
join:2003-09-29
Rosemount, MN
| ICANN and ITU nonsense I, too, don't look at the UN in general. I think its okay if they don't let the UN meddle at ALL and have it be exclusively the ITU, because they do indeed do a great deal of good. However, the ICANN is doing a decent job and its pretty hard to ruin something almost completely redundant and fail safe. Do at least something to keep the meddling beaurocrats from doing harm.
The thing I take issue with is things like not even inviting the ICANN to meetings regarding this issue. Do you guys recall that? So much for global participation at the United Nations, eh? If you are going to try and actually manage such a monstrosity, it would be helpful to include ICANN (or at least Vint Cerf and others that helped make the internet what it is today).
I understand the argument from other Americans that we invented it and we should government, but its too global. I'm not referring to the different applications, but the number of people using it. Indeed, TCP/IP, E-mail, FTP, Gopher and USENET were created in America, but that doesn't mean we should hog everything. I'm so tired of this misplaced fear that it will ACTUALLY have a detriment on this economy by making it international. Come on, people, it takes a lot more than that.
I've heard some people claim that Gopher was not created in America, and isn't that so absurd? . I live in Minnesota and I enjoyed the fact that the University of Minnesota created Gopher. Similarly, Bell Labs created UUCP and two students in North Carolina created what is now usenet. E-mail was created and adapted to ARPA by Ray Tomlinson at BBN, and FTP is one of the earliest applications of ARPAnet development as well.
I'm tired of the nonsense, because obviously people in America had a huge amount to do with it's creation/development and, no, the World Wide Web is not the internet itself :P. That aside, everyone here and around the world had a lot to do with the refining and updating of parts of the internet. So why don't they include BOTH people? It would please everyone if they offered to bring the core of ICANN (such as Vinton Cerf) into the ITU for their vast experience and knowledge. Honestly, this business of it being completely one or the other won't help anyone at all. | |
|
| terracell
join:2004-04-16
Livonia, MI | Re: ICANN and ITU nonsense What you are observing is just a bigger parasite feeding off of a smaller parasite. | |
|
DrData
Premium
join:2004-12-31
Apopka, FL | Internet The Internet is a valuable asset to the USA and to Americans. Handing this valuable asset and control off to some other agency outside the USA is just ignorant and foolish. | |
|
|
|
|
A UN Managed Internet
·
