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story category A Broadband Reality Check
Consumer groups lash out at ineffective FCC
(old news - 09:02AM Wednesday Sep 13 2006)
tags: competition · fcc · coverage · stats
The Free Press, the Consumer Federation of America and Consumers Union (authors of Consumer Reports) have grouped up to lament the FCC's "failed broadband policy," which they suggest has left Americans with "higher prices, slower speeds and no meaningful competition for high-speed Internet service." The coalition has issued a new report dubbed "Broadband Reality Check II", "The truth behind America's Digital Decline." Among its key findings:
•The United States is 16th in the world in broadband penetration, and 14 other OECD nations saw higher overall net growth in broadband adoption than the United States from 2001 to 2005.•Consumers in other countries enjoy broadband connections that are far faster and cheaper than what is available here. U.S. consumers pay nearly twice as much as the Japanese for connections that are 20 times as slow.•The most important factors explaining the digital divide among nations are household income and poverty — not population density.•U.S. broadband prices aren’t dropping: Cable modem prices are holding constant or rising, and DSL customers on average are getting less bandwidth per dollar than just a year ago.•Despite claims of “fierce competition,” cable and DSL account for 98 percent of the residential broadband market. And over 40 percent of U.S. ZIP codes have one or fewer DSL or cable modem providers reporting service.•The market share of “third platform” alternatives like satellite, wireless and broadband over powerline technologies has actually decreased over the past five years.•Those living in urban areas are nearly twice as likely to have home broadband access as their rural counterparts.•Approximately one out of 10 households with incomes below $30,000 reported having high-speed Internet access, but six out of every 10 households with incomes above $100,000 had broadband.•The price of broadband service, and not necessarily the lack of a home computer, is the key barrier to broadband adoption by low-income households.•The FCC uses misleading and meaningless measures of broadband coverage and competition, inflating estimates of broadband availability and competition.
The complete report is available here.

Related:
  1. Telcos Fighting Release of Broadband Penetration Data
  2. Surprise: More Criticism of FCC Broadband Data
  3. Congress Realizes Broadband Data Sucks
  4. Thursday Evening Links
  5. Wednesday Evening Links
  6. Friday Evening Links
  7. Scott Cleland: Google Using 21x The Bandwidth They Pay For
  8. USF: Uncle Sam's Blank check
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

<sarcasm>
Everyone in the USA should just drop broadband immediately, as it just sucks so bad!
</sarcasm>
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by pnh102 See Profile :

Everyone in the USA should just drop broadband immediately, as it just sucks so bad!
It's not so much that it's "so bad", as it is slower and more expensive than in other developing countries.

As in so many other things, the current government ignores the important stuff while wasting blood and treasure conquering the world.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by nasadude See Profile :

As in so many other things, the current government ignores the important stuff while wasting blood and treasure conquering the world.
That's just silly. Under the previous administration, I did not have broadband. I finally got broadband under the current administration. So therefore, the current administration's broadband policy is better than the previous one's.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8


edit:
September 13th, @10:35AM

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by nasadude See Profile :

As in so many other things, the current government ignores the important stuff while wasting blood and treasure conquering the world.
That's just silly. Under the previous administration, I did not have broadband. I finally got broadband under the current administration. So therefore, the current administration's broadband policy is better than the previous one's.
For you, in the sticks, perhaps.

Not for people living in cities. Granted monopolies like separated areas between Cablevision TWCNYC here in NYC are the best antidoses for development and investment.
And, of course, should have no place in our much praised 'oh-so'great-capitalismo' (ridiculous, it's more like some early, pre-TR, monopoly-era... but it'd require to get rid of the totally corrupt Administration and its fully crooked ilks at FCC.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by kamm See Profile :

Granted monopolies like separated areas between Cablevision TWCNYC here in NYC are the best antidoses for development and investment.
And, of course, should have no place in our much praised 'oh-so'great-capitalismo' (ridiculous, it's more like some early, pre-TR, monopoly-era... but it'd require to get rid of the totally corrupt Administration and its fully crooked ilks at FCC.
How are these monopolies the FCC's fault? It is always the state or local government which grants franchise agreements.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by pnh102 See Profile :

How are these monopolies the FCC's fault? It is always the state or local government which grants franchise agreements.
If the 1996 telecom law had been enforced, I believe we would be much better off than we are now, with real competition. I believe the FCC neglected their duty in not vigorously enforcing the 1996 act.

After the law was passed, numerous CLECs started trying to provide broadband. The incumbents, however, were able to stymy these efforts to a significant degree by their slow response and stonewalling on linesharing. I think the bells incurred around $2B in fines (yes, that's a B for billion) over this period of time, but it was just a cost of doing business (the business being putting CLECs out of business).

From my personal experience, I have never been able to get anything more advanced from Verizon/Bell Atlantic than ISDN. After the 1996 bill passed, I was actually able to get IDSL (not great, but better than dialup or ISDN), first from Phoenix, then they went out of business and I got IDSL from Covad (I think). Then Covad withdrew from my market and by that time comcast was starting to offer @home. To this day, I can't get anything better than dialup from Verizon.

The 1996 act was an attempt that failed from lack of enforcement and lack of will for enforcement. Now we are headed back towards monopolies (or duopolies) for telecom services.

THE MARKET IS NOT WORKING AND BROADBAND IN THE U.S. SUCKS COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE DEVELOPED WORLD.
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by nasadude See Profile :

BROADBAND IN THE U.S. SUCKS COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE DEVELOPED WORLD.
95% of the time I don't even notice that. I hardly ever need so much as 768kbits/sec down. Of course, I am not a big watcher of Flash videos (YouTube), nor do I listen to much in the way of streaming audio. Mostly email, and surfing to sites for information; and I avoid sites which have "neon" displays because most of them have very poor sense, or taste of graphical layout of information. And as for P2P, I have to stay connected to a torrent so long to reach the ideal 1.0 ration of upload to download that the higher download speed is moot. I won't quit the torrent until I hit 1.0; and for that, symmetric 512k/512k would work just as well as my 3008k/512k.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

I'm not disputing what you say about the FCC enforcing TA1996 or the merits thereof. However, today the primary reason that we do not have "next generation" broadband are the unreasonable requirements being imposed by state and local governments. If these governments would simply get out of the way of progress, we would finally have broader deployments of services such as FIOS.

Does this mean that some people may never get these services? Sure. But not everyone in other developed countries can get next generation broadband either. Personally, that situation is better than the status quo of nobody in a given jurisdiction having access to next generation broadband.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

If you are saying some fiber is better than none, I absolutely agree.

I do not agree that the reason we don't have more fiber is because of local gov't requirements (except for Monkey county, where things went to court).

The reason we don't have more advanced services is because there is very little competition, at the national or local level.

For whatever reason, the unregulated telecom market in the U.S. is a failure as far as consumers are concerned. It's been great for CEOs and shareholders, not so great for the rest of us.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by nasadude See Profile :

The reason we don't have more advanced services is because there is very little competition, at the national or local level.
On the contrary, the only reason we have advanced services is because of competition. Verizon did not deploy FIOS out of the goodness of their hearts, they did it because they were losing customers left and right to cable companies. FIOS allows them to better compete with cable companies. The cable companies in turn are deploying digital voice service along with faster broadband to compete with FIOS. Just because there are few players in the racket doesn't mean there is no competition.
said by nasadude See Profile :

For whatever reason, the unregulated telecom market in the U.S. is a failure as far as consumers are concerned. It's been great for CEOs and shareholders, not so great for the rest of us.
But it isn't unregulated. As you explained with Montgomery County, MD, there is a lot of regulation. There are also many other jurisdictions (Geneva, IL, the state of NJ, etc.) which have imposed excessive regulation which has been directly responsible for the lack of advanced deployments. All of the jurisdictions which have removed such regulations have seen some improvements in service.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

And look at the foot-print of those advanced services -- they are only available where there is already competition. In places where there is only one broadband provider, there is no advanced services, if there is any broadband at all.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by quetwo See Profile :

And look at the foot-print of those advanced services -- they are only available where there is already competition.
Wrong. When I had lived in Penna., Verizon was deploying FIOS into areas in which Comcast cable modem service was the only broadband available.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

Fatal Vector

join:2005-11-26

"However, today the primary reason that we do not have "next generation" broadband are the unreasonable requirements being imposed by state and local governments. If these governments would simply get out of the way of progress, we would finally have broader deployments of services such as FIOS."

These restrictions are in place many times because they had to be imposed on the telcos because of their Ma Bell predatory behavior in the past. Just "getting out of the way" and letting Ma Bell do her thing is not the answer either.

Ma is like the government: Give her the opportunity and she WILL use it against YOU.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by Fatal Vector See Profile :

Just "getting out of the way" and letting Ma Bell do her thing is not the answer either.
Sure it is. All the jurisdictions that got out of the way of Verizon when they wanted to deploy FIOS got FIOS or are now getting FIOS.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8

said by Fatal Vector See Profile :

"However, today the primary reason that we do not have "next generation" broadband are the unreasonable requirements being imposed by state and local governments. If these governments would simply get out of the way of progress, we would finally have broader deployments of services such as FIOS."

These restrictions are in place many times because they had to be imposed on the telcos because of their Ma Bell predatory behavior in the past. Just "getting out of the way" and letting Ma Bell do her thing is not the answer either.

Ma is like the government: Give her the opportunity and she WILL use it against YOU.
Good point. This is the point where telcos are just like cables.

Michieru
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
I believe the sweet spot here is free reign with limited basic and common sense restrictions. The free market has it's own problems as well and the only way we see for patching them is by adding restrictions.

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8

said by pnh102 See Profile :

I'm not disputing what you say about the FCC enforcing TA1996 or the merits thereof. However, today the primary reason that we do not have "next generation" broadband are the unreasonable requirements being imposed by state and local governments. If these governments would simply get out of the way of progress, we would finally have broader deployments of services such as FIOS.
This is COMPLETELY RUBBISH. Exactly these governments are the ones that make cable monopolies possible, making ISPs' - first and foremost cables' - life so sweet without any substantial investment.

Does this mean that some people may never get these services? Sure. But not everyone in other developed countries can get next generation broadband either.
Which doesn't mean shit for us as we are living HERE and WE WANT these services but WE CANNOT GET THEM, due to our CORRUPT - both local and federal - GOVERNMENT.

Personally, that situation is better than the status quo of nobody in a given jurisdiction having access to next generation broadband.
Yupppeeee! Let's party - we are better than Kazakhstan! Whooohooo!

What's next when even Kazaks will surpass us (pretty soon)?
You will compare our shitty situation to Somalia or Congo, perhaps to Equatorial Guinea?

Pathetic, that is.
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by kamm See Profile :

Which doesn't mean shit for us as we are living HERE and WE WANT these services but WE CANNOT GET THEM...
Who is this "WE" you are speaking of? If all ten of you really want it, why not start up your own company and build it?
...due to our CORRUPT - both local and federal - GOVERNMENT.
You don't like the government? Why not stand for election yourself. Or, at the least, stop voting for corrupt politicians.
Yupppeeee! Let's party - we are better than Kazakhstan! Whooohooo!

What's next when even Kazaks will surpass us (pretty soon)?
You will compare our shitty situation to Somalia or Congo, perhaps to Equatorial Guinea?

Pathetic, that is.
Remind, again, why I need 25M/2M Internet? Trying to figure that out when I doing fine just as I am. And getting lots of weird stares from people who prefer their $9.95 per month dial-up connections because they think it extravagant to pay $25 per month for anything Internet.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

tsu

join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by NormanS See Profile :

Remind, again, why I need 25M/2M Internet? Trying to figure that out when I doing fine just as I am. And getting lots of weird stares from people who prefer their $9.95 per month dial-up connections because they think it extravagant to pay $25 per month for anything Internet.
Why should we use horseless carriages when horses are perfectly able methods of transport?

That isn't to say that we all must use such and so, but rather that stifling the ability is counterproductive. Data transport, for better or worse, will only continue to rise.
--
"You do not secure the liberty of our country and value of our democracy by undermining them, that's the road to hell." - Lord Phillips of Sudbury.

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by tsu See Profile :

said by NormanS See Profile :

Remind, again, why I need 25M/2M Internet? Trying to figure that out when I doing fine just as I am. And getting lots of weird stares from people who prefer their $9.95 per month dial-up connections because they think it extravagant to pay $25 per month for anything Internet.
Why should we use horseless carriages when horses are perfectly able methods of transport?

That isn't to say that we all must use such and so, but rather that stifling the ability is counterproductive. Data transport, for better or worse, will only continue to rise.
Excellent point.

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8

said by NormanS See Profile :

said by kamm See Profile :

Which doesn't mean shit for us as we are living HERE and WE WANT these services but WE CANNOT GET THEM...
Who is this "WE" you are speaking of? If all ten of you really want it, why not start up your own company and build it?
Excuse me? Have you ever heard about []b]the freedom of choice?[/b] About the fact that first you have to have the option...?

...due to our CORRUPT - both local and federal - GOVERNMENT.
You don't like the government? Why not stand for election yourself. Or, at the least, stop voting for corrupt politicians.
I did, thank you for the compliment. However it doesn't change the fact our system is totally rotten, corrupt.

And the state of our BB services are shining examples of this.

Yupppeeee! Let's party - we are better than Kazakhstan! Whooohooo!

What's next when even Kazaks will surpass us (pretty soon)?
You will compare our shitty situation to Somalia or Congo, perhaps to Equatorial Guinea?

Pathetic, that is.
Remind, again, why I need 25M/2M Internet?
Why do YOU need? I don't know.

Why I need? For several things - for example I can immediately imagine half a dozen remote video-based application/solution, let alone the fact that it's GREAT to have such high speed when you're retriving ANY FILE. IT SAVES TIME. WHICH SAVES MONEY.

These are very basic things, you know...

Trying to figure that out when I doing fine just as I am. And getting lots of weird stares from people who prefer their $9.95 per month dial-up connections because they think it extravagant to pay $25 per month for anything Internet.
And what does it have to do with the fact that they DO have their wish but plenty of us DON't because folks like you ASSUME we don't need it, despite all the examples around the world?

Notice the denial you're living in...
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

Not denial. Hardly. What they are doing in Japan is interesting, but why to I have to do everything that they do? Rather, if it is so great over there, I'd move over there.

It is nice to know that you are an elite mover and shaker, who has important things to do with your time, and your life. But you don't appear to have that majority backing that you need to have thing your way.

I will tell you what. All it would take to get me on your side is $250,000 per year. Give me that, and I will back you all the way. I can't afford more than a broom closet in this town. I mostly walk, for lack of a car. This "BroadBand" you speak of isn't much use to me. I can't eat it. I can't drink it. I can't wear it. You can't provide it for less than $50 per month. I can't afford to pay over $25 per month to get it.

We are at an impasse.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8


edit:
September 13th, @05:52PM

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by NormanS See Profile :

Not denial. Hardly. What they are doing in Japan is interesting, but why to I have to do everything that they do? Rather, if it is so great over there, I'd move over there.
Instead of moving ahead here? You're being ridiculous.
thanks for confirming you ARE living in stubborn denial.

It is nice to know that you are an elite mover and shaker, who has important things to do with your time, and your life. But you don't appear to have that majority backing that you need to have thing your way.
Umm newsflash for you: new things never being implemented by popular vote - it's usually pioneered by a company or a person or some other entity (ie think-tanks).
Somebody has to push the envelope, especially when we are way behind many less wealthy countries.

I will tell you what. All it would take to get me on your side is $250,000 per year. Give me that, and I will back you all the way.
It's sad to read that your lack of interest makes you block the whole idea. It's called egoism.

I can't afford more than a broom closet in this town. I mostly walk, for lack of a car.
Me too. I don't need a car.
What does it have to do with the matter at hand?

This "BroadBand" you speak of isn't much use to me. I can't eat it. I can't drink it. I can't wear it. You can't provide it for less than $50 per month. I can't afford to pay over $25 per month to get it.
Fine, you won't pay more. But why nobody else shouldn't get it because of your lack of interest/funds/anything?

FYI: if others pay more for faster than your slower tier becomes cheaper and/or your $25 will get faster too.

We are at an impasse.
? Much more like you have some resentment towards anybody who could afford a higher-priced broadband service... why?
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by kamm See Profile :

Much more like you have some resentment towards anybody who could afford a higher-priced broadband service... why?
Not at all. Nor is egoism a part of it. I don't know where you get off making judgments like that. What it comes down to is capital investment. If you, or you and a group of others, with money to make the capital investment want to do so, I have no objections. None, whatsover. Go for it. It is your money. Spend it.

But, when it comes to government money, well; it is my government, as well as yours. I don't think my government should be involved in funding private ventures. That is all.

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by NormanS See Profile :

said by kamm See Profile :

Much more like you have some resentment towards anybody who could afford a higher-priced broadband service... why?
Not at all. Nor is egoism a part of it. I don't know where you get off making judgments like that.
Then you should consult with a professional - I can't help you further... when you dismiss the importance and the necessity based solely on your lack of interest that's called narrow minded egocentric thinking.

What it comes down to is capital investment. If you, or you and a group of others, with money to make the capital investment want to do so, I have no objections. None, whatsover. Go for it. It is your money. Spend it.

But, when it comes to government money, well; it is my government, as well as yours. I don't think my government should be involved in funding private ventures. That is all.
You didn't even understand this point, let alone you don't understand the role of the goverment.

Next time when you move somehwere into the sticks and only dialup will be your option, you'll order a private T1 from 15 miles away, right?
FYI: taxes are being collected to serve the common good. Not only yours but everybody's.
After your posts I know it's hard to imagine for you but give it a try...
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

We have gotten way off the BroadBand issues track. Maybe we should take this to a political forum. Or, at the least, one where insults are accepted as the norm.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Michieru
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
·Speakeasy

"You don't like the government? Why not stand for election yourself. Or, at the least, stop voting for corrupt politicians."

What's the whole point of a election when both democrats and republicans have lost all of there interests in our country?

There is no point in voting anymore because no matter for who you vote your still voting on some corrupt politician.

"Remind, again, why I need 25M/2M Internet?"

Well probably not for you but I am sick of waiting hours upon hours just download ISO's or huge updates like XCode 968MB in size from developer.apple.com and it's not only one time since there updates all the time.

The Internet is not only about web pages and email, in order for the internet to develop even more in the future we need faster connections. Apple has just released movie downloads of the iTunes store. In order to make those business models prosper faster connections are needed. In the near future the internet would continue to expand. Everything will revolve on the internet simply because that's the world we are going too.

Networks must be faster to meet supply and demand. Scarcity will forever exist though.

vzw emp

@qwest.net

"However, today the primary reason that we do not have "next generation" broadband are the unreasonable requirements being imposed by state and local governments. If these governments would simply get out of the way of progress, we would finally have broader deployments of services such as FIOS".

I don't believe that for one second. Sure, it may be a factor, but I find it hard to believe that the telco's are as altruistic as you make them out to be. The telco's have a track record of failing to deliver on their promises, now they want us to cut then some slack? They're whining about something the cableco's have dealt with for years. What's the matter, can't they compete on a level playing field? If you look at the way some of our higher speed neighbors have achieved success, you'll find it wasn't because the government simply got "out of the way", it was because the government got involved. I say get the government to use the funds from the corrupted USF to build/upgrade the networks, then allow ISP's to offer service over those networks. Throw in some real competition (I'm not talking duopoly) for good measure. I think it's a damn shame that we have so many people that can't get a decent connection (or any connection at all) because some corporate bean counter doesn't think it's economically feasible to do so.

rachelsfx

join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL
Excellent post since dial-up and AOL was still king when Clinton was in-charge. LOL!

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by rachelsfx See Profile :

Excellent post since dial-up and AOL was still king when Clinton was in-charge. LOL!
Just think if AOL had invested all of its billions into building its own broadband network... they might still be relevant today!
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8


edit:
September 13th, @04:11PM

said by rachelsfx See Profile :

Excellent post since dial-up and AOL was still king when Clinton was in-charge. LOL!
The US communication and media system is broken since Reagan's reckless and totally lunatic deregulation - only to cater his crooked friends in big media.

During Reagan's tenure the FCC has eliminated:
- the 1949 "Fairness Doctrine" which ensured the right for reply and the fair balance of information about every important issue (including every competing opinion)
- the 1970 requirement that local broadcasters - both raido and television - had to rely on members of the local communities to determine local needs in almost two dozen areas (social, religious, sports etc) in order to get their license renewed
- the requirement for local radio station to keep programming logs
- the limitations for local radio stations on commercials
- the requirement for local radio and television stations to provide community-centered (non-entertainment) programming

etc
etc.
This is where this story starts... then came the last phase, under CLinton when big media got totally free run for its bloodbath among small, competitive local broadcasters.
Now it's the past, we get all of our info from 5-6 giant conglomerates and that's it, period. The corporate control over media/information flow is finally total - we have pretty much reached the zero point.
However they have been outsmarted by the internet and this is why this telecommunication failure - which is also straight derivative of Reagan's destructive, primitive policies - is very important question now.

(Reagan had this very ignorant notion that information should be handled just like any other 'product' on the market - pff, goes totally against the well-known fact that democracy = well-informed citizens...)

PS: Of course, we know it was a deliberate action, aimed to block/control/disrupt the competition, the real flow of the information 'carriers' as much as possible so people can be much easier swayed any (ie 'their') way but it's another story...
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

There is so much that is so wrong with that...

"Fair Use Doctrine" was anything but. It stifled expression because broadcasters had a tendency to not broadcast anything that would stir up controversy, lest one side, or the other, threaten to use a "big stick" to beat them upside the head.

Expecting the government to regulate "Fair Use" is like expecting the fox to regulate the population of the hen house!

Why does everybody think that government is so much more trustworthy than any other human endeavor? That we need government to regulate human affairs is prima facie evidence that humans aren't fit to govern human affairs. As long as we are not going down to the town hall meetings of our parties, not showing up at our city council meetings, there is no point in bringing up government at all.

We all just want to sit in front of our computer screens, with fat pipes to pull in entertainment; we, ourselves, want to fiddle while D.C. burns. So what?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8


edit:
September 13th, @06:09PM

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

said by NormanS See Profile :

There is so much that is so wrong with that...

"Fair Use Doctrine" was anything but. It stifled expression because broadcasters had a tendency to not broadcast anything that would stir up controversy, lest one side, or the other, threaten to use a "big stick" to beat them upside the head.
Yeah, just like Edward R. Murrow on McCarthy, right?
Ridiculous, your claim is totally rubbish, let alone that it never said "no" to any information but merely stated 'auditur et altera pars'.

Expecting the government to regulate "Fair Use" is like expecting the fox to regulate the population of the hen house!
Stop with the usual right-wing spinning.
It's not 'fair use regulation' but simply fair access and fair rights for the reply.
Something totally different from FauxNews business model.

Why does everybody think that government is so much more trustworthy than any other human endeavor?
Why would any sane person - other than GOP-fan - think that corporations give a flying fuck about information and fair and balanced news?
On the contrary this reckless, lunatic deregulation of the Reagan-era gave birth for such hatemongering hypocrite retards like Rush 'Pill' 'Sex Tourist' Limbaugh.

That we need government to regulate human affairs is prima facie evidence that humans aren't fit to govern human affairs.
On the contrary this should make clear for anybody that human-led profit-oriented corporations cannot be trusted when it comes to common good - they are absolutely unable to serve anything like that, they are not meant to work for any other goods than their own.

I can hardly believe I actually had to explain this...

As long as we are not going down to the town hall meetings of our parties, not showing up at our city council meetings, there is no point in bringing up government at all.
What has anybody's presence at town meetings to do with his irrevocable right for balanced and accurate information?

BTW if those meetings aren't too popular then local broadcasts become even more important information sources.

We all just want to sit in front of our computer screens, with fat pipes to pull in entertainment; we, ourselves, want to fiddle while D.C. burns. So what?
Maybe you just want to do that but I do believe that only informed citizens can make informed calls. In other words uninformed, ignorant, misinformed, let alone deceived citizens cannot serve democracy, they can only serve the foundation of authoritarian regimes.
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC


edit:
September 14th, @07:36PM

Re: Yup... Broadband Sure Sucks

In retrospect, all that I posted here is going too far off topic. I am done with this argument; at least in this thread. This isn't the venue for political discussion. Later.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
xrobertcmx
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Sterling, VA
clubs:
·Comcast
·EarthLink

I believe part of the problem with comparing any administrations (and I am normally the last to defend them) broadband policy is that the technology and the field have changed dramatically.
When these guys took office in 2000 Broadband was just being deployed to a lot of area's. The house I lived at in 2001 finally and just barely qualified for 768/128 for $49.95 a month.
I now pay $28.95 a month (1/2 price for a year) for a 15/2 connection which is also available at my former residence. Although until a month ago they still only qualified for 768/128 DSL.
I think the failure here really falls more clearly into the realm of the FCC and FTC. The ILEC's don't care. Verizon is doing better then they did in the past with FIOS and infrastructure build out, but AT&T in my opinion could care less and is almost big enough to pull it off.
As a country we seem to have stoped trying to compete, to be better, to stay ahead and are just resting on our rapidly fading laurels. In this arena we have no real competition, we have two companies offering similar products at roughly similar price points and no motivation to change because they both have monopolies in their field.
--
4 More years and we won't have a country.

Michieru
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
Yeah the current administration gives you broadband but at the same time waste money on this war for profit. What a great comparison of how just ridiculously greedy you sound.
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

said by nasadude See Profile :

said by pnh102 See Profile :

Everyone in the USA should just drop broadband immediately, as it just sucks so bad!
It's not so much that it's "so bad", as it is slower and more expensive than in other developing countries.
The US isn't a "developing country", so the comparison to "other developing countries" is wrong.

If you compare the Tokyo Bay Area to the San Francisco Bay Area, you will find a significantly higher population density, which makes deployment of faster Internet cheaper, and easier.

I doubt that the Internet prices in Japan are just $7 per month; but that is what a number of people I know are paying for Internet, slow as it is. People I know would rather finagle a sub $20 per month Internet fee than have 10mbits/sec down.
As in so many other things, the current government ignores the important stuff while wasting blood and treasure conquering the world.
There is so much bunk there that I don't even know where to begin. The U.S. Government has been trying to "conquer the world" since the end of WWII. You would think that we'd have something to show for it, yes? There is no world conquest under way; never has been.

In any case, where in the U.S. Constitution is the government empowered to give us cheap, fast Internet?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum