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story category White House Opposes Free Wireless Broadband Plan
For whatever it's worth...
(old news - 01:40PM Thursday Dec 11 2008)
tags: competition · fcc · business · wireless · alternatives
Tipped by dbmaven See Profile
Newsflash: the outgoing President is concerned with the outgoing FCC chief's plan for a nationwide, free wireless broadband network that was probably never going to get built anyway. As we've noted, the FCC is set to vote on December 18 on a plan that would involve auctioning off spectrum in the AWS-3 (2155-2180 MHz) band, with the condition that whoever buys it must deploy at least 768kbps, smut-filtered wireless to 95% of the country in ten years time. That alone is a pretty tall order, especially with a struggling economy.

But the plan, which is really just a reconstituted version of a proposal by a

company named M2Z Networks, is also being opposed by most incumbent operators, who want to bid on that spectrum without attached conditions. With the lobbying support of other carriers, T-Mobile has taken the lead in this fight, insisting that the plan would cause interference. That's despite FCC tests that prove otherwise, and the fact that T-Mobile successfully uses Time Division Duplex technology overseas with absolutely no interference problems.

AT&T and Verizon have also actively lobbied against the plan; not because they want the spectrum, but out of desire to avoid an additional competitive player from entering the market. Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez, former CEO of Kellogg and the President's principal adviser on telecommunications and information policy issues, sent a December 10 letter to FCC boss Kevin Martin that not coincidentally parrots the objections of wireless carriers:
The Administration believes that the AWS-3 spectrum should be auctioned without price or product mandates. The FCC should rely on market forces to determine the best use of spectrum, subject to appropriate government rules to prevent harmful interference.
By "market forces," Gutierrez means the whims of incumbent operators, who traditionally dominate such auctions because of their size. M2Z Networks quickly responded, noting that opposing the plan somewhat contradicted Bush's 2004 promise to bring broadband to "every corner of our country by the year 2007." Stepping around the fact that the goal was, well, a failed one, the Administration insists that requiring a carrier to deliver wireless broadband to everyone, for free, "would likely lead to congested and inefficiently used broadband."

If it gets past incumbent lobbyists, the Whitehouse and the FCC vote (which it probably won't), the plan is also seeing some resistance from free speech activists and consumer advocates, who insist government-mandated Internet filters are unconstitutional. Earlier this year, 22 different public interest groups filed their opposition (pdf) to M2Z's planned use of filters, saying that even if they were opt-in, they would violate the First Amendment.

Related:
  1. Broadcasters Attack 'White Space' Broadband
  2. Verizon Nabs Most Valuable 700Mhz Spectrum
  3. 700Mhz Auction Winners Finally Talking
  4. Google Launches White Space Broadband Website
  5. FCC Engineers Say White Space Broadband Works
  6. Clearwire CEO: FCC Approval Would Be 'Good Policy.'
  7. NAB Sues FCC Over White Space Broadband
  8. FCC Looking For White Space Database Administrators
Forums » White House Opposes Free Wireless Broadband Plan
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woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

pffttttt........

who cares what this moron likes or dislikes
--
BlooMe
nutcr0cker

join:2003-04-02
Chandler, AZ

Re: pffttttt........

A president that would never do the right thing .....voluntarily

DaveNJ
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media

Re: pffttttt........

said by nutcr0cker See Profile :

A president that would never do the right thing .....voluntarily
A large majority of conservatives, would agree with that statement, emphasizing "right".

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS

Failure?


...bring broadband to "every corner of our country by the year 2007." Stepping around the fact that the goal was, well, a failed one...

How is this goal considered a failure? Each corner of our country does have broadband available, it's the middle that is missing it.

anicetoemma
Naruto
Premium
join:2005-09-30
Chicago, IL
clubs:

Re: Failure?

Right on.
nutcr0cker

join:2003-04-02
Chandler, AZ
The middle is the redbelt...mostly RED and stupid states. They do not need broadband they can live off hate as propagated by rush and hannity

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

1 edit

Just be gone already

STFU and don't let the door hit your country ruining ass.
dandin1

join:2008-05-27

Re: Just be gone already

I've been staring at that sentence for the past two minutes, and it is pure awesome unaldurated wtf. It would sound great with a long echo.
cornelius785

join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA


1 edit

wow

i thought just maybe bush would stay fairly quiet as a lame-duck president and wouldn't give me another reason to hate him and think he was a horrible president.

the only missing in this thread is some right wing BS by everyone's favorite MAFIAA + republican poster child...
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19


1 edit

Re: wow

said by cornelius785 See Profile :

the only missing in this thread is some right wing BS by everyone's favorite MAFIAA + republican poster child
How dare you blaspheme against the commander in chief AND our favorite reichwing shill??? May God strike you dead where you stand and may the MAFIAA have mercy on your soul.

/sarcasm

Fox McCloud
Crazy like a fox.

join:2006-07-23
·Embarq
·Sprint Mobile Broa..


1 edit
said by cornelius785 See Profile :

i thought just maybe bush would stay fairly quiet as a lame-duck president and wouldn't give me another reason to hate him and think he was a horrible president.

the only missing in this thread is some right wing BS by everyone's favorite MAFIAA + republican poster child.
doesn't take a right-ring Republican poster-child to oppose this; we libertarians oppose such a plan, as well, though it may be for different reasons.
--
"True Patriotism is more closely linked with dissent than it is to conformity and a blind desire for safety and security...I accept the definition of patriotism as that effort to resist abusive state power." -Ron Paul

DaveNJ
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
i think anyone with a shred of common sense would oppose this. Funding , where is the forever money for this project?
JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL

Re: wow

Rational thinking goes out the window with most folks here the minute Bush is mentioned in any story.

Get with the program.

My guess is half of them didn't even read a word after "the outgoing President is concerned".

Simba7

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·Bresnan Online


3 edits

Fsckin' Bush.. Get the hell out already..

See Subject..

I'm sick if this a**h*le screwing up the economy even further. Oh ya, I remember his promise. Just like his other promises, this one too lies in the bullsh*t pile.

His *promise* was to fsck our nation into bankrupcy, jack up the economy, and then leave the next president to clean up his mess.. Along with the next presidents for the next 2 decades or more.

Thanks a sh*tload, Bush. How many false promises and lies have you spewed out already?
--
Bresnan 15M/1M|Mine[P4HT 3.2GHz,2GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,WinXP]|Wife's[P4 2.4GHz,1GB RAM,60GB HDD,WinXP]|Router[2xP3@1GHz,640MB RAM,18GB HDD,Allied Telesyn AT-2560FX,Kingston KNE100TX,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,iPro/1000DP,Blitz BWI715,Gentoo]

Millenniumle

join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY

My dreams just get dashed

Free internet! How cool.

Never going to happen! How sad.

I have to think it would fail, even if built. I imagine it to be an under-backboned, over congested, filtered flop. I'd like to be wrong though.

TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast


2 edits

Re: My dreams just get dashed

said by Millenniumle See Profile :

I have to think it would fail, even if built. I imagine it to be an under-backboned, over congested, filtered flop. I'd like to be wrong though.
You wouldn't be wrong. This was all setup as a favor from Martin to a number of longtime ex-FCC execs( »www.m2znetworks.com/about-compan···team/#17 ---- »www.m2znetworks.com/about-compan···team/#22 ---- »www.m2znetworks.com/about-compan···team/#24 ---- »www.m2znetworks.com/about-compan···team/#25 ----- »www.m2znetworks.com/about-compan···team/#26) tied up with M2Z Networks who is getting a sweetheart deal here. And it also supports Martin's desire for a porn filtered internet that will make his run for Congress easier in NC.
--
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Millenniumle

join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY

Re: My dreams just get dashed

The connection is clear. I wonder if M2Z is of a financial standing to be able to bid?

DaveNJ
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media

No more spending.

Of course people resort to hate, rather then rational thought as you see by the people in this room. People are not upset by the democrats bailout of the auto industry , but are upset by the lack of national broadband. Do people ever consider anything other then opinion in there statements.
expert007

join:2006-01-10
Buffalo, NY

Re: No more spending.

Oh....so its the Democrats bailout. Would be a non-issue if it were the GOP huh??

DaveNJ
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media

Re: No more spending.

said by expert007 See Profile :

Oh....so its the Democrats bailout. Would be a non-issue if it were the GOP huh??
Let try again, if you were rational. Wouldnt you be upset if Bush proposed spending billions on a national network, considering we have spend billons on the bailout. Tear yourself away from your emotions and just think. The decision is total common sense. Daddy doesnt have a endless credit card.
--
You better not pout, you better not cry, I am telling you why Jesus Christ is coming to town..

SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

Re: No more spending.

said by DaveNJ See Profile :

Wouldnt you be upset if Bush proposed spending billions on a national network, considering we have spend billons on the bailout.
But see that's just it. Bush has never done anything for anyone except his golf buddies and now we're ALL paying for it. The money spent on the illegal Iraq war alone would have paid for healthcare for every man, woman and child in the U.S.

Simba7

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·Bresnan Online


2 edits
said by DaveNJ See Profile :

Daddy doesnt have a endless credit card.
Yes he does.. It's called the economy and Taxes.. This "war" is proof of that.

Speaking of "bailout", it seems that the corporations (including the automakers) are getting 3/4 of a TRILLION dollars to fix their screw ups.

Damn.. I need to screw up more often.. Maybe I'll get a mil or two for doing it.
expert007

join:2006-01-10
Buffalo, NY
Uh...might be helpful to actually read the precise words that I printed before labeling me as irrational??

In case you're not grasping, nationwide network and auto bailout are two discrete issues.

DaveNJ
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media


1 edit

Re: No more spending.

said by expert007 See Profile :

Uh...might be helpful to actually read the precise words that I printed before labeling me as irrational??

In case you're not grasping, nationwide network and auto bailout are two discrete issues.
Yes and spending by the democrats, and republicans is still spending. Its still the same issue. Got it ?
--
You better not pout, you better not cry, I am telling you why Jesus Christ is coming to town..

expert007

join:2006-01-10
Buffalo, NY

Re: No more spending.

A. I say X.

B. You say Y.

C. X and Y are mutually exclusive (to what I said at least)

D. You berate me for saying X.

E. I label you as kooky.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Yeah, except one caused the mess, and one has to fix it.

Of course we all pay for both.

TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast

said by DaveNJ See Profile :

Of course people resort to hate, rather then rational thought as you see by the people in this room. People are not upset by the democrats bailout of the auto industry , but are upset by the lack of national broadband. Do people ever consider anything other then opinion in there statements.
And the Dem that will oversee the FCC in the new Cogress has asked Martin to delay any vote on this. So it isn't just Bush who has problems with this "free internet" plan.

»tech.yahoo.com/news/nm/20081212/···internet
A top Democratic lawmaker is expected to ask the Federal Communications Commission on Friday to delay voting on a controversial auction of radio spectrum, which includes a requirement for free Internet services, said a source following the issue in Washington.

Democrat Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, who is expected to head the Senate Commerce Committee when the new Congress convenes in January, wants the FCC to refrain from taking up major items while it oversees the February 2009 transition to digital television.

--
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Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

we could have broadband everywhere and a power grid in the Northeast that isnt 100 years old. but sadly we have wasted all that money on stupid things like the illegal invasion of iraq.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
expert007

join:2006-01-10
Buffalo, NY

768 in ten years??

Whats the point?

Besides, I want my smut and I'm willing to pay for the bandwidth to see it. Note that I didn't say I'm paying for smut. No need to do that.
JazzJRabbit

join:2003-09-27
Wheaton, IL

Re: 768 in ten years??

Point is I wouldn't mind being able to check on my email from anywhere without paying $60/month to one of the ILECs.
jaminus

join:2004-10-14
Arlington, VA

Re: 768 in ten years??

Yeah, and I wouldn't mind a free cappucino every morning, either.

If this free wireless network is such a good idea, then why doesn't M2Z just come up with a business plan to convince investors to give them the capital to outbid other bidders?

25mhz of spectrum nationwide could go toward a whole range of wireless services The question isn't whether a free, ad-supported wireless network would be cool, or useful, or even popular. The question is whether it's the most valuable use of the spectrum. An open auction where all business models are on the table is the best way to allocate scarce resources.

Millenniumle

join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY

Re: 768 in ten years??

Because an ad supported network is not going to see the same kind of revenue as a subscription supported network. If the government mandates the bandwidth to that purpose, then all bids for it compete on the same level.

Ergo, all bidders will bid knowing they may only see a few dollars in ad revenue per month per user.

There is no way the bids could compete against bidders who have their eyes on $50 per month per user in subscription fees. And what is best is the government doesn't have to dish out a dime to see a national, wireless, free, broadband network. Although, to consider 786k broadband ten years from now is probably a wee bit optimistic.:D

meh37

@verizon.net

So...

What's the difference between "smut free" free wireless Internet access and "smut free" free broadcast TV? (besides the lack of competition factor)
EPS

join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

Re: So...

It'll probably be easy for someone who knows what they're doing to get to pornography even on the "filtered" internet (filters never work 100%), while it's a lot harder to get your local ABC affiliate to start broadcasting it?

meh37

@verizon.net

Re: So...

Actually, I was referring to the aspect of "govt regulation" (which I guess I should have made clear... my bad). I wonder why they'd see one as being any different from the other given the unrestricted public access factor of both.

middleofknowhere

@WYOMING.COM

Free internet??

As this is wireless, I wonder just how much you would have to pay for that radio?

Lets see, the ISP I work for pays approx. $400.00/radio for similar technology, list price is around $650.00. Add in about $150.00 for the antenna, and $300.00 mandatory install fee and your free internet just cost you $1,100.00 in upfront costs.

Tack on another $100.00 or so for a "mandatory" router.

Do you want customer service for your connection?
$10.00 / month

Email?
$5/month

Want to use VOIP, games, multiple computers, gaming consoles?
Please upgrade to our premium (paid) services.

Simba7

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·Bresnan Online

Re: Free internet??

said by middleofknowhere :

As this is wireless, I wonder just how much you would have to pay for that radio?
Shouldn't be that much. If you have to pay $1,100 for just a radio to radio link, you're getting ripped off.

I can do the same thing using 2x WRT54G's. Literally.

AmericanMonkey

@cesp.us

Re: Free internet??

And you would the be same person to complain when this service goes down if they used that kind of shoe string budget. I've worked for Clearwire / Sprint and I can honestly say that your idea of costs are not what is used in the real world.

I mean think of it this way that is probably 1/25th to 1/50th of the cost of a link for your cell phone provider to service your rural areas in your state. Plus why else would it be costing Clearwire / Sprint to build out a nation wide network in the Billions?

Just think about it.

Simba7

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·Bresnan Online

Re: Free internet??

said by AmericanMonkey :

And you would the be same person to complain when this service goes down if they used that kind of shoe string budget. I've worked for Clearwire / Sprint and I can honestly say that your idea of costs are not what is used in the real world.
"Shoestring Budget"? This link has been proven for months. You don't need a $1k (or higher) piece of equipment that DOES THE SAME DAMN THING. Jeez.

Plus, last time I checked, a cell phone provider is different technology, frequencies, and equipment to operate. I was saying a typical Unlicensed Radio to Radio link (typically 2.4 or 5GHz).
said by AmericanMonkey :

I mean think of it this way that is probably 1/25th to 1/50th of the cost of a link for your cell phone provider to service your rural areas in your state. Plus why else would it be costing Clearwire / Sprint to build out a nation wide network in the Billions?

Just think about it.
This is different though, but they shouldn't mark the equipment up 10x (or higher).

I also see you're on Wildblue.. May I ask "Why?"

Chrono

@spcsdns.net

Desperate for Broadband

I hate living less than 1 mile away from the closest DSL signal and one road away from Cable. I would be very thankful if they could bring it out here [plus repair our road that hasn't been repaved in over 20 years]

Sucks living on the township boarder

I am all for nationwide broadband. I dunno about free though. I have no hesitation to pay for broadband so its fin for me

Also, cut the cap crap [please]

DaveNJ
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

Re: Desperate for Broadband

contact your cable advisory board, and ask them for help..

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
I know it's not your first choice, but for areas not served by wired ISPs there's satellite and there may even be fixed wireless.

I know satellite sucks to no end but it's always a last resort and probably better than dialup.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY

just don't get it...

File this under Obama's to do list.. under universal broadband access. Unless a nuke is fired at the U.S. in the next month... Bush can sign his corrupt pardons and go home..

DaveNJ
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media

Re: just don't get it...

said by tmc8080 See Profile :

File this under Obama's to do list.. under universal broadband access. Unless a nuke is fired at the U.S. in the next month... Bush can sign his corrupt pardons and go home..
Maybe it can be a voluntary tax, where liberals can choose to contribute. This way when it all goes to the telcos, and nothing ever happens with the money. They have no to blame but themselves..
--
You better not pout, you better not cry, I am telling you why Jesus Christ is coming to town..


ARGONAUT
got ping?

join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN

Free wireless will never happen.

Even if Bush and Obama wants free wireless it would never happen.

Free lunch only happens with CEOs.

Homunculus
Pipsquack
Premium
join:2000-12-14
Dar al-Harb
clubs:

Only a few more weeks folks!

Don't worry haters. Obama will take control January 20, and on January 21, everything will be fixed. We will all have free health care, our mortgages will be paid off, we won't have to pay one red cent to fill our gas tanks, the world will love us again, and we will all have free wi-fi.

Hope. Change.
--
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geowil

join:2008-04-20
Laveen, AZ
·Qwest.net
·Cox HSI

might be a good thing that this might not happen

if we were to get free internet, well wait. free isnt exactly the word to be used. Tax is more fitting.

if we were to get this Tax Internet crap, as the name implies, there would be a new fed. tax for it (likely to be in the range of 300 to 600 Washingtons). everyone would have to pay up to let only maybe a quarter of the country that is actually going to use it because they are too cheep to get dsl or a cheep cable plan.

why the hell would we want a new tax when the economy is going to shit right now? now being 2008-2010 (because the way things look the hole isnt going to stop digging itself till at least 2010). I, for one, am opposed to this. And I hope Obama also does.

Besides there already is free internet. it's called go to the library. almost everyone I have ever been too offers free internet access. Though to those who want to look at porn for free, the filters imposed on the FNW (free national wireless) are going to hinder you anyway.

props to Bush but also screw him. He's opposing this for a different reason, albeit some senseless idiotic reason.

other then the tax reason I have a techn ical reason to oppose this./

wireless just doesnt work grand scale. N was a big step forward, but we need something like Triple N to make a nation wide wireless access even viable. I can bet that people will complain about connection drops, problems even connecting and signal degradation because of environmental interference (EMF's, conflicting signal bands, chicken wire in the walls of their houses, etc.).

Once we invent a full-proof no loss wireless then they can talk turkey, until then its just another way to get cash to the Gov.
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Simba7

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

Re: might be a good thing that this might not happen

..and the people aren't paying for "The War on Terror"?

We would've had a killer network if Bush hadn't pulled this. Instead, we're dead last (except for maybe Australia).
megarock

join:2001-06-28
Saint Louis, MO

There's a problem with this!

"must deploy at least 768kbps, smut-filtered wireless to 95% of the country in ten years time"

You can't make a smut free internet. Case closed.
geowil

join:2008-04-20
Laveen, AZ
·Qwest.net
·Cox HSI

Re: There's a problem with this!

actually there is a way.

all they would have to do is setup a web filter and blacklist the porn sites or anything with porn related content on the page/url via a server filter such as barracuda.

then setup another monitor that disconnects any connection that is accessing a site that is deemed inappropriate that's being accessed via proxies for a period of 4 hours or more.
--
Speedtest.net:
27759KB/s Down
538kb/s Up
Forums » White House Opposes Free Wireless Broadband Plan


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