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story category UDP BitTorrent Will Destroy The Interwebs!
..says Richard Bennett. 'Sensationist nonsense,' BitTorrent tells us...
02:41PM Monday Dec 01 2008 by Karl Bode
tags: business · hardware · bandwidth · networking · net-neutrality
Over the weekend, we noted that uTorrent has released an alpha client that uses UDP for P2P traffic delivery. UDP makes up roughly 2% of all Internet traffic today, and generally isn't used for data delivery because it doesn't guarantee either the delivery or the quality of the data being delivered (nor is it quite as easily managed). While the migration to UDP could potentially make filtering of P2P more difficult -- raising the hackles of some anti-network-neutrality ministers and ISPs -- BitTorrent tells us the decision was aimed at actually making BitTorrent more friendly.

According to posts at the uTorrent forum, the new version lays uTP, the micro transport protocol, on top of UDP, which provides for better flow control and prevents the kind of TCP RST packet attacks Comcast has used to throttle upstream P2P traffic. Robb Topolski, the DSLReports user who first discovered Comcast's packet forgery tactics, thinks the shift to uTP/UDP is a good one:
It's a very good thing for the network. This new protocol YIELDS to other streams. In other words, it's less aggressive. The idea, eventually, is that background file transfers are handled like -- well -- background transfers -- similar to the way that background processes take a lighter toll on the CPU while you're actively using the computer. P2P users have the same concerns -- this change keeps their interactive uses snappy, and during crunch time it ought to help others as well.
Yet Richard Bennett, perhaps the Internet's most vocal opponent of network neutrality, pens a piece over at The Register proclaiming that the shift will result in an Internet meltdown -- and worries that network neutrality laws would prohibit ISPs from taking on this new throttling challenge. The author quietly states his case by suggesting that those who would support the use of UDP for P2P transfers (like apparently, BitTorrent creator Bram Cohen), are little more than selfish junkies, mindlessly braying for the looming apocalypse:
Some of the people who use this system are spoiled children with no more concern for the greater good than junkies looking for their next fix. They can’t be allowed to spoil it for the rest of us, and the only practical means to prevent their doing so is to unleash effective management upon them. . .The best way to ensure that uTP doesn’t kill the internet is to throttle it at the source, and any law that stands in the way of ISPs exercising that level of management is deadly to the internet.
Simon Morris, head of Product Management at BitTorrent, thinks Bennett is a little confused.

While it's true that a UDP-based P2P network will cause some problems for ISP throttling (something confirmed by our users), that isn't the goal. "We’re doing this to implement our own more sensitive congestion control on top of UDP," he notes. "We felt that TCP’s congestion control was problematic in that it relies on looking for packet loss as an indication of congestion. TCP spots the problem only after it has occurred."

"By contrast, our prototype UDP-based protocol (called uTP) detects congestion by measuring transmission times between peers – if packet delivery *slows down* then we infer that congestion may be about to occur and immediately throttle back on delivery speed," he says. "The point here is a protocol that is more sensitive, NOT a protocol that is more greedy," insists Morris. "The idea we'd "declare war" is unfortunately sensationalist nonsense."

Yet according to Bennett, "even the downloading fiends who haunt the message boards at Broadband Reports" can see the use of UDP for P2P transfers will result in an Internet implosion. Any thoughts, haunting downloading fiends?

Update: The reviews are in!

GigaOM notes that when it comes to Richard Bennett, "a little scaremongering can go a long way to make the case for an ISP-based network management clampdown on P2P traffic."

Torrent Freak proclaims that a significant chunk of what Bennett's saying simply isn't true (but it does get the Register plenty of hits).

The Industry Standard says Bennett offers broad assumptions with few references.

Writer Robert Hallock pens an interesting explanation of TCP vs. UDP in a counter piece to Bennett, suggesting "we wait to attack the potential problem with data and evidence rather than suppose and conjecture our way into the unforgiving embrace of network non-neutrality."

Related:
  1. The EFF 'Test Your ISP' Project
  2. New Buzz Phrase: 'Protocol Agnostic'
  3. Friday Morning Links
  4. Economy Worries Slowing DOCSIS 3.0 Rollouts
  5. Comcast: 50Mbps Now Available In 20% Of Markets
  6. Virgin Takes Aim At BitTorrent
  7. DOCSIS 3.0 Gets Faster
  8. Verizon's Open Development Initiative? So Far It's A Joke
Forums » UDP BitTorrent Will Destroy The Interwebs!
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MemphisPCGuy
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Memphis, TN

More...

must download more ... brains!!!!!

With caps in place by the largest ISP and the others following suit, does it really matter any more?

Jerm

join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA

Re: More...

This is going to KILL gamers when the ISPs react - all of a sudden your UDP game traffic will be shaped/throttled and completely kill your ping.

Way to go uTP! (not)

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

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Re: More...

said by Jerm See Profile :

This is going to KILL gamers when the ISPs react - all of a sudden your UDP game traffic will be shaped/throttled and completely kill your ping.

Way to go uTP! (not)
Might actually be the issue that gets Joe Six Pack to actually realize something is wrong then, rather then those of us who are in the small minority and know what this is about.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Fredericksburg, TX

Re: More...

As bad as it sounds, that'll be a good thing. Network neutrality will come home even more, to anyone who plays games, and people will start complaining. Loudly.

knightmb
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Re: More...

quote:
UDP makes up roughly 2% of all Internet traffic today, and generally isn't used for data delivery because it doesn't guarantee either the delivery or the quality of the data being delivered.
Does this mean that once all BT clients switch to this and the UDP traffic goes up to be 10% of all Internet traffic flow, we can get rid of these stupid, fake survey's they say all the Internet traffic is BT because now they have the entire UDP graph to see that most of the traffic is people watching paid movies online?

Just a thought....
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said by iansltx See Profile :

As bad as it sounds, that'll be a good thing. Network neutrality will come home even more, to anyone who plays games, and people will start complaining. Loudly.
No it won't. More and more ISPs will learn from Comcast. Throttle ALL bandwidth and not be protocol specific. That won't break any current or future network neutrality provisions.

Comcast hasn't taken the next step YET - but it is coming as has been seen with other ISPs. And that is "bill by bytes transferred" billing tiers and overage fees.
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Pricing out both sides of their....

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Comcast hasn't taken the next step YET - but it is coming as has been seen with other ISPs. And that is "bill by bytes transferred" billing tiers and overage fees.
Billing-by-the-byte for consumption users, of course; with Emma Email and Wilford Webby still paying the same amount for their 1MB/mo.

Amazing how one pricing policy will be 'fair' for one type of consumer while it'll take a different pricing policy to create 'fairness' for another type of consumer.

NV
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badtrip
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Re: More...

Bill by bytes is ridiculous. A good portion of the bytes that are transferred to my box are unwanted and unasked for. No offense, but I don't want to pay to view anyone's avatars on this forum and I certainly do not want to pay to view banner and flash ads.

As for overages, these guys are trying to use a drought-time water utility payment model for internet service.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
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Re: More...

Then you probably shouldn't visit this site, or sites like this. If you don't want to view avatars, you can always block images, or better yet, use a text-based browser.

DataDoc
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Re: More...

You've missed the point completely. Think of the difference between sites that are text based and those that use Flash for everything possible. You don't know how many bytes you're about to get until you're there. And how many bytes is a Google map? or weather information?

Who knows? Nobody,until you get your bill.
openbox9

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Re: More...

I got the point very well. Some people want to use a service unfettered with minimal consequences, but they aren't willing to pay appropriately.

How much money does it cost to leave my TV plugged in to an electrical outlet? How much will my water and gas bills rise with a guest staying in the house? The concept of pay for what you use has been around for quite some time and I don't expect to see it go away.

not me 2

@comcast.net

Re: More...

Another option in a pay by the byte system is to drive someone off the net by constantly hitting their system with data. A normal DOS or DDOS could force someone to leave the Internet just because the of the cost even if that person never did anything more on the Internet than check for email.

badtrip
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said by openbox9 See Profile :

Then you probably shouldn't visit this site, or sites like this. If you don't want to view avatars, you can always block images, or better yet, use a text-based browser.
Just because my browser doesn't render a picture doesn't mean the data needed to render that picture wasn't sent. My point was I come to this forum to share in everyone's views, I'd happily pay for that. A pic of McCain/Palin, not so much.
openbox9

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Re: More...

said by badtrip See Profile :

My point was I come to this forum to share in everyone's views, I'd happily pay for that. A pic of McCain/Palin, not so much.
That's equivalent to saying that you only want one of the articles on the front page of a news site to be delivered even though you're requesting the whole page. What about the header and footer on each page here at DSLR? Why should you have to pay to receive those bits when you most likely aren't interested in them?

badtrip
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Re: More...

Exactly.
VictorWI

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said by badtrip See Profile :

Just because my browser doesn't render a picture doesn't mean the data needed to render that picture wasn't sent. My point was I come to this forum to share in everyone's views, I'd happily pay for that. A pic of McCain/Palin, not so much.
Ah, I don't think you understand how browsers work. They request the picture to be sent. A text browser will not as it does not know how to render it. It will only bring down the IMG tag, not the referenced image.

SSidlov
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said by badtrip See Profile :

No offense, but I don't want to pay to view anyone's avatars on this forum and I certainly do not want to pay to view banner and flash ads.

Then you will like this article: »www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/02···g_study/ which reports on a 'green' browsing study and accuses Flash et al, as consuming more wattage on our computers....

playahata

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Re: More...

stop being conservatives, this is 2008, every house should have 20Mbps+ connections already, unfiltered, uncapped.
jc100

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Ya... as by the byte model, one size fits all is a good theory. Next time you go to the doctor, don't tell them your ailment. One size fits all. Penicillin will work for your cure all. You might have a major illness. but penicillin is the cure. Trust me. One size fits all by your logic.

Isps would be smart to just offer several tiers, contrary to your lack of every having logic. One for minor users and with caps, one for the moderate users and with caps, and one for the extreme users, and unlimited. Give consumers the choice. Not only can you turn a profit as most people go to the cheapest or moderate tier, and consume less, but you'll be reaping an extra cost from your heavy users.

Logic.. the absence of it in your posts always amazes me.

Anyfish

@xdsl.is

TK Junk Mail See Profile]
Comcast hasn't taken the next step YET - but it is coming as has been seen with other ISPs. And that is "bill by bytes transferred" billing tiers and overage fees.
would "bill by kilobytes sent" billing be so bad?

(it simply means that the sender of the data pays but not the receiver.
sound familiar? this is how the postal and telegram works. Bonus! Advertisers might then consider how big their fancy flash ads are)

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
Only until the bulk of content moves away from traditional media and towards the net. So it simply boils down to time.
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Network Neutrality is the devil.....

We need more caps and higher prices and less use of the internet for ISPs to survive.


ztmike
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Re: Network Neutrality is the devil.....

said by moonpuppy See Profile :

We need more caps and higher prices and less use of the internet for ISPs to survive.


Sadly that's how MOST of the major U.S broadband ISPS think, I'm still sorta shocked Verizon hasn't capped their FiOS users. But then again..they are not pushing the limits of fiber internet either.

As far as the new build of utorrent..doesn't sound like it will do much good, as I'm still using a older version and have Comcast and I have noticed full upload speeds when uploading on utorrent.
iansltx

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uTP is GOOD!

Seriously,

Small Scale: uTP's yielding characteristics mean that I can have BitTorrent on in the background and it not disrupt whatever I'm doing in the foreground

Large Scale: uTP's yielding characteristics mean that, if uTP is causing congestion on an ISP link, it throttles itself back gracefully, providing maximum speed while steering clear of collisions with other traffic

Opposition is acting just plain childish now.

Look at it this way:

You're standing in line. A person is in front of you. He notices you look like you're in a hurry and offers to switch places with you. Instead of accepting, you yell at him and tell him he's a burden to society and to get out of the line altogether or you'll call the cops.

Tell me how I'm erring here. UDP traffic is still counted in ISP data caps anyway, so why does it really matter?

Bottom line: uTP skirts around non-legit ISP throttling practices, yes, but it alleviates the concern that supposedly caused these tactics in the first place: flow control.

Really, if BitTorrent is proposing to self-inflict lower priority to its own traffic, with the result being better QoS on any connection in which BT is used...what's the fracking problem?!?
axus

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Re: uTP is GOOD!

I'm a little skeptical, they'll have to prove it to me. How does uTP recognize that the network is dropping packets? I thought that UDP not having a built-in retransmit method meant that you never know for sure what happened to your packet... you just have to assume after a certain amount of time.

In the ideal case, UDP could use less bandwidth, but I imagine it would just increase utilization while being more efficient.

The worry in the Register article is that VoIP and games using UDP will no longer get their "free" QoS on the routers by using UDP. I don't know if they are full of baloney or not, because UDP is supposed to be unreliable. It seems plausible that increasing the UDP traffic could cause issues, but I'm thinking it's worth a try.

I know Bittorrent has been looking at making the BT protocol more efficient for ISPs, perhaps they've done some testing and this really is nicer? Only one way to find out; I'm glad that internet applications don't have to be approved by some committee before they are released.

Matt
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Re: uTP is GOOD!

They have supposedly built a reliable transport mechanism on top of UDP. »forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=49813

I don't understand what he means when he says "This UDP-based reliable transport is designed to minimize latency, but still maximize bandwidth when the latency is not excessive. We use this for communication between peers instead of TCP, if both sides support it." In addition, we use information from this transport, if active, to control the transfer rate of TCP connections.

So, is it using uTP for client control, but data transfer is still sent via standard TCP? Or they are using uTP for all BT communication, but they are controlling the entire transmit rate of the TCP/IP stack? I'm not clear and I'd have to see more information.

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Re: uTP is GOOD!

said by Matt See Profile :

I don't understand what he means when he says "This UDP-based reliable transport is designed to minimize latency, but still maximize bandwidth when the latency is not excessive. We use this for communication between peers instead of TCP, if both sides support it." In addition, we use information from this transport, if active, to control the transfer rate of TCP connections.

So, is it using uTP for client control, but data transfer is still sent via standard TCP? Or they are using uTP for all BT communication, but they are controlling the entire transmit rate of the TCP/IP stack? I'm not clear and I'd have to see more information.
Although it's not my paragraph, I'll say it a little clearer. Here's how I read it.

"This UDP-based reliable transport is designed to minimize latency, but still maximize bandwidth when the latency is not excessive. We will now use uTP for communication between peers instead of TCP, if both sides support it. If both sides do not support it, we still use information gained from the uTP transport, if active, to also control the transfer rate of standard TCP-based connections."

So, for Alpha-version to Alpha-version peer connections, file data and mesh overhead happens over UDP. Between Alpha-version to legacy peers, TCP will be used as it always was and UDP will be used as it always was. The legacy TCP connections will still benefit from the network condition information learned from the uTP connections, allowing uTorrent to dynamically raise and lower their throttles as conditions indicate.
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Matt
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Re: uTP is GOOD!

said by funchords See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

I don't understand what he means when he says "This UDP-based reliable transport is designed to minimize latency, but still maximize bandwidth when the latency is not excessive. We use this for communication between peers instead of TCP, if both sides support it." In addition, we use information from this transport, if active, to control the transfer rate of TCP connections.

So, is it using uTP for client control, but data transfer is still sent via standard TCP? Or they are using uTP for all BT communication, but they are controlling the entire transmit rate of the TCP/IP stack? I'm not clear and I'd have to see more information.
Although it's not my paragraph, I'll say it a little clearer. Here's how I read it.

"This UDP-based reliable transport is designed to minimize latency, but still maximize bandwidth when the latency is not excessive. We will now use uTP for communication between peers instead of TCP, if both sides support it. If both sides do not support it, we still use information gained from the uTP transport, if active, to also control the transfer rate of standard TCP-based connections."

So, for Alpha-version to Alpha-version peer connections, file data and mesh overhead happens over UDP. Between Alpha-version to legacy peers, TCP will be used as it always was and UDP will be used as it always was. The legacy TCP connections will still benefit from the network condition information learned from the uTP connections, allowing uTorrent to dynamically raise and lower their throttles as conditions indicate.
How is that going to benefit networks? It can't be a reliable transport without some sort of acknowledgment. So I'm not sure what the switch to TCP would do to allievate current issues.

Can you elaborate a bit on that?

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edit:
December 1st, @09:06PM

Re: uTP is GOOD!

said by Matt See Profile :

How is that going to benefit networks? It can't be a reliable transport without some sort of acknowledgment. So I'm not sure what the switch to TCP would do to allievate current issues.

Can you elaborate a bit on that?
You mean the switch away from TCP, I think.

I don't know what method they've chosen, but it's possible that they're using the typical 16K block request boundary and after a series of successes, perhaps pipelining a series of 16K requests. Not receiving a piece is no big shakes, you can always ask again or ask another peer.

But, given that there is no error-testing until the piece is done (some torrent piece sizes go as big as 2MB or 4MB), I kinda doubt this was the tactic. So what they've probably done is to reproduce part or all of TCP's integrity checking in their UDP implementation.

Either way, a miss is a miss and a potential sign of congestion. So they can, at least, use the fact that a requested block never arrived as a sign -- but it gets even better. Because they're using UDP, the program itself can measure loss and latency and respond directly to congestion -- unlike TCP where the supervision is delegated to the network stack which responds to congestion -- any program using it can only infer what's going on.
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Re: uTP is GOOD!

I did mean switch to UDP.

I didn't consider using an unreliable delivery and then just doing a hash check sort of like they do now to verify the file and all the required parts are there.

I'm just not sure I buy into their "It'll make network management easier" bit, but I guess we'll see.

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Re: uTP is GOOD!

said by Matt See Profile :

I'm just not sure I buy into their "It'll make network management easier" bit, but I guess we'll see.
It makes it harder on the app, but a goal of uTP is to get rid of the problem where you can't surf, stream, or VOIP if you're torrenting unless you cut your upload speed so far back that you can't possibly overrun your broadband modem.

The clues for overrunning the modem are the same clues as overrunning any choking point in network. Since using uTP will give them direct view to loss and latency (unlike TCP, where they don't know if a retransmit was required). uTorrent can figure out quickly if it's a particular path that's congested or a common point (all paths), and react accordingly.
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Matt
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Re: uTP is GOOD!

How can they not know if a re-transmit was required when using TCP? TCP uses acknowledgments after every packet sent or received, so if a packet was lost, the protocol stack would know immediately.

UDP doesn't require acknowledgments, so the protocol stack has no way of knowing if video was lost and no way to know if a retransmission is required. This is evidenced by warping players in an online video game, or stuttering audio/video in online streaming media. It's an unreliable (or unguaranteed) delivery mechanism, whereas TCP is reliable (or guaranteed).

So again, I don't see how simply switching to UDP doesn't anything but make the situation worse by requiring a torrent to have to send MORE data packets because once they overload the user's upstream and start dropping packets in favor of other traffic, all that data has to be re-sent.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Datag···_and_UDP

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edit:
December 2nd, @01:12PM

Re: uTP is GOOD!

said by Matt See Profile :

How can they not know if a re-transmit was required when using TCP? TCP uses acknowledgments after every packet sent or received, so if a packet was lost, the protocol stack would know immediately.
Because TCP users (the programs) access TCP through a sockets interface. Basically the program opens a socket to an address and a port and sends/recvs data to it. All the details about whether or not a TCP retransmission is needed or a checksum fails is is left up to the network stack. As long as the socket hasn't terminated, it's working.

(The API can advise if a send function returns before all the data was queued, and the programmer has to deal with that by sending the rest of the data, so there are possible clues here for reactive processing, but BitTorrent already reactively avoids congested paths so it's not much help).

said by Matt See Profile :

UDP doesn't require acknowledgments, so the protocol stack has no way of knowing if video was lost and no way to know if a retransmission is required.
It has no way of knowing if you (the programmer) don't build in some kind of ACK/NAK or other scheme. And that's the thing -- with TCP, you don't have to do that yourself, TCP does it for you. With UDP, you have to handle this yourself.

But taking it out of the BitTorrent topic for a moment, why do you need TCP for something like viewing YouTube videos? If the network between YouTube and the viewer drops a packet, is it better to stop the flow and re-request the lost packet or is it better to skip the missed data and go on? I think it would be better to skip the missed data. TCP won't allow me to program that way, but UDP will.

Back to BitTorrent...
So again, I don't see how simply switching to UDP doesn't anything but make the situation worse by requiring a torrent to have to send MORE data packets because once they overload the user's upstream and start dropping packets in favor of other traffic, all that data has to be re-sent.
First, it's not simply switching to UDP, they've also built in TCP-style acknowledgements and congestion control as well as preemptive control.

See this message from the developer: »www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/le···076.html --- the presentation slides are »www3.ietf.org/proceedings/08nov/···at-4.pdf but they're probably cryptic without being in the room or knowing the 6-months worth of discussion that preceded it.

Second, overloading the user's upstream is the anti-goal or the thing to avoid (it's the Status Quo). uTP won't drop packets in favor of other traffic, it will hold it and avoid adding it to the outgoing queue.

Robb
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BubbaDude

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edit:
December 1st, @06:26PM

You called it yourself, Karl

Remember the headline on your piece on UTP, Karl? "New UDP uTorrent Takes Aim At Throttling."

The folks at BitTorrent, Inc., may very well have nothing but good intentions, but as soon as you make Internet congestion control a user-tunable option, all hell is going to break loose. The infrastructure is not prepared for this.

Richard Bennett

See 9 replies to this post

TK Junk Mail
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UDP for uTorrent has one REAL purpose - avoid ISP throttling

All this talk about the motives of those who have designed in UDP file transfers for P2P apps being altruistic is pure BS. UDP is being made the default protocol for 1 reason - to bypass those ISPs that are still throttling P2P traffic. Any other reason being given is PR activity to put a friendly face on the continued attempts to facilitate copyright infringement.
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maartena
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Pirates will find a way....

...and so it goes to show that pirates will always find a way to circumvent technology. Since UDP is apperantly a lot more difficult to throttle, one can circumvent the current (and very expensive) throttling mechanisms in place.

The downside is that it will make ISP's more likely to implement caps. If they can't keep torrent traffic down ONLY, they will simply start capping ALL the traffic.

Quite frankly, for the few times I DO use a torrent app, i'd much rather be throttled then having my entire connection capped at a certain amount of data, because I use my connection for a LOT more.
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Middlesboro, KY

Re: Pirates will find a way....

That's what my old cable company, Cebridge, did. If you downloaded more than 30MB in something like 10 minutes, your whole connection would be throttled back to 1/4 speed for an hour. This occurred no matter the source of those 30MB; it wasn't just torrents. Sucky ass company.
lordofwhee

join:2007-10-21
Everett, WA

It's just a matter of time before every ISP has a cap of some sort, as it's a source of easy money, especially as they don't actually have to do any of the work in creating an artificial bandwidth scarcity (just look at most of Europe, and even they don't have real competition).
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard

join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
wow that is a shit ISP, i could blow past 30mb with a single MMO patch blizzard BT style or standard HTTP EQ style.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

TheSHAD0W

@dellcity.com

uncorrect terminology

Your statement that "UDP BitTorrent Will Destroy The Interwebs!" is uncorrect. BT doesn't directly threaten the interwebs; it is instead likely to melt the INTERTUBES. Please be more careful with your titling in the future.


anon1

@teksavvy.com

The Register

Haha, yeah, totally reliable source..

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

Re: The Register

"Biting the hand that feeds IT Network Neutrality."
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: The Register

I take your Register and substitute my own
lcnoble

join:2006-11-11
Nancy, KY

From the article:

How about, "we wait to attack the potential problem with data and evidence rather than suppose and conjecture our way into the unforgiving embrace of network non-neutrality."
?
Pv8man

join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN

Opinion bought and paid for by the telcos and **AA's

I wonder how much Richard Bennett is getting paid to spread his faulty and roughly improvised opinion to as many people as he can. I'm sure "con"-cast has their PR's hands on this.

For those of you who argue that the throttling is absolutely necessary and that switching to UDP(bypass throttle) would be the death of the internet?
(Assuming ISP's let it happen that way by never wanting to upgrade capacity)

I would have to respond with the statement that streaming video is increasingly becoming the majority of bandwidth consumption.

Do you think it would be fair and legal to throttle you tube videos as well?
BubbaDude

join:2008-06-06
Livermore, CA


edit:
December 1st, @06:23PM

Re: Opinion bought and paid for by the telcos and **AA's

Actually no, the folks at Comcast tell me they're completely OK with the UTP scheme, which they see as a means of being more polite in the face of congestion than TCP is. They're actually its biggest defender, apart from BT, Inc.

So no, this isn't a shill thing. It was actually a reaction to Karl's article on UDP being a means of escaping throttling in Canada. Anyone who buys that is probably going to be disappointed.

Richard Bennett