Verizon May Expand FiOS Deployment Targets - Won't be selling off more rural networks -- for now...

Verizon May Expand FiOS Deployment Targets
Won't be selling off more rural networks -- for now...
(old news - 02:16PM Wednesday Jun 04 2008)
tags: Fiber · coverage · business · bandwidth · Verizon FIOS

Verizon's orginal goal was to spend $24 billion to deploy FiOS to 18 million homes by the end of 2010, but the company may be expanding those projections. With 25% of their revenues now coming from FiOS and landline customers continuing to jump overboard, the company is hinting that they'll be announcing further expansion later this year. Verizon's Chief Financial Officer Doreen Toben had this to say late last week:

When asked today whether Verizon might expand FiOS beyond 18 million homes, Doreen Toben, Verizon’s executive vice president and CFO, said, "We are currently looking at -- and we will in the middle of this year -- more expansion. To the extent…your expenses are in good shape, there might be some poking. We’re poking it a little bit now to say we think we could expand. So more to come on that."

I've been wondering if the company would be ramping up their sale of "less profitable" rural networks after selling off most of New England, but Toben says such plans aren't on the radar. She called the Fairpoint deal "exhaustive," so they aren't looking at the spin-off of more rural networks -- at least for now.

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Forums » Verizon May Expand FiOS Deployment Targets


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Jodokast96 R.I.P Bassman442 Premium join:2005-11-23 Erial, NJ	Bring it on! Screw caps!
	permalink · 2008-06-04 13:20:12 ·

ninjatutle You can keep the "change" join:2006-01-02 San Ramon, CA	Bring on the caps Caps? Why yes, we here at DSLR love caps and support them fully!
	permalink · 2008-06-04 13:58:05 ·

Jodokast96 R.I.P Bassman442 Premium join:2005-11-23 Erial, NJ ·Verizon Online DSL	Re: Bring on the caps said by ninjatutle : Caps? Why yes, we here at DSLR love caps and support them fully! Hey, don't say that too loudly. The cablecos will hear you and say, "See, people really do want them!"
	permalink · 2008-06-04 14:01:06 ·

N3OGH Will it all be Obama's fault now? Premium join:2003-11-11 Philly burbs	I LIKE CAPS TOO. I LIKE THEM SO MUCH, I LOCKED THEM IN! /sarcasm off -- Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…
	permalink · 2008-06-04 15:43:15 ·

Dogfather
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edit:
June 4th, @01:35PM

Last mile will kill them

There aren't many solutions to the last mile FTTH problem. But with time comes improved technologies. Who knows, in 5-10 years a high bandwidth NLOS wireless solution may present itself as a solution for last mile costs. $1333 per home is somewhat reasonable but will be exponentially more expensive as density decreases.

Meanwhile if they want to stop POTS customers from jumping ship knock off with the "You aren't using enough LD" fee, and $7.50 Caller ID charges and the $1.50 "How dare you not want to be in the phonebook" fee. Quit dollaring people to death and they won't cancel.

permalink · 2008-06-04 13:24:00 · Print ·

FastiBook join:2003-01-08 Newtown, PA ·Verizon FIOS	Re: Last mile will kill them You realize that FIOS has a totally different network structure to copper based technologies, right? The "last mile" has all most the same speed & latency as the first customer on the local "loop". Also, home density increase would decrease deployment costs as they could do the same work on laying lines & reach more people. - Andy
	permalink · 2008-06-04 13:37:55 ·

Dogfather
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edit:
June 4th, @01:45PM

Re: Last mile will kill them

said by FastiBook

:

You realize that FIOS has a totally different network structure to copper based technologies, right? The "last mile" has all most the same speed & latency as the first customer on the local "loop". Also, home density increase would decrease deployment costs as they could do the same work on laying lines & reach more people.

- Andy

Huh? I'm not talking about last mile performance. Read my post, I'm talking about last mile COST. Cost is INVERSLY PROPORTIONAL to density, so the more remote locations they try and deploy to, the more money per passed home it will cost. That increase in per home deployment cost will kill them if they attempt it. For those people I hope they do, I just don't see how it's financially possible with current technology. To do it they'll need a technology solution that keeps per home deployment in the $1000 or less range.

permalink · 2008-06-04 13:43:23 · Print ·

en102 Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA ·RoadRunner Cable ·DSL EXTREME ·DSL EXTREME	Re: Last mile will kill them Right ... decreased density (i.e. rural) markets become expensive. NYC = cost effective, even if its still expensive to deal with city costs. Building out rural Vermont/New Hampshire / Main would be better to use some form of wireless technology (seeh »www.look.ca). -- Canada = Hollywood North
	permalink · 2008-06-04 14:51:02 ·

BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
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Where have you been ? FiOS installs costs are down to $600 and that is just phone and internet install , triple play installs are done to $900.

The fiber train is rolling along for Verizon. The american dollar going down the shitter is going to hurt them and boost costs once they eat through the current stock of gear. But that is expected around august to september. And expected to push costs up roughly $40 per install.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

permalink · 2008-06-04 15:28:19 · Print ·

Dogfather Altitude is your friend Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA ·MegaPath ·Cox HSI ·Verizon FIOS ·Cox VOIP ·Verizon west (ex G.. ·ViaTalk ·Time Warner VOIP ·RoadRunner Cable	Re: Last mile will kill them The average so far has been $1300 ($24B/18M). No doubt those costs are coming down, but it's because the ONTs are getting cheaper and they're using existing coax. But those saving disappear when you are starting to deploy into rural areas and you have to string or bury hundreds or thousands of fiber-feet between every home unlike typical tract neighborhoods of MDUs.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 15:58:11 ·

BosstonesOwn join:2002-12-15 Everett, MA clubs: ·Comcast ·Comcast Formerly ..	Re: Last mile will kill them Keyword is average BTW I am agreeing with ya here. Costs are coming down , cornings flexible fiber and the newer tools are reducing costs at staggering rates. -- "It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"
	permalink · 2008-06-04 16:57:31 ·

Dogfather Altitude is your friend Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA	Re: Last mile will kill them Those MDUs mean a money tree for VZ.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 16:58:38 ·

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

I've noticed that Verizon is cheapening the install process. They have started using this system »www.corningcablesystems.com/web/···/flexnap

for 1 block long mini-branches (side streets) off of trunk lines rather than the innerduct system they used before. The pre-assembeled fiber also has pigtails already on it waiting for someone to clip the zip ties and plug the pig tail into a FDT, I'm not sure if the FDT will be installed when a customer orders, or later on in the build out process (this area isn't live yet).

permalink · 2008-06-04 16:38:38 · Print ·

BosstonesOwn join:2002-12-15 Everett, MA clubs:	Re: Last mile will kill them cool isn't it ? all this tech is driving down costs. Personally I love it.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 16:56:24 ·

N3OGH
Will it all be Obama's fault now?
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I doubt the spectrum will exist to push high def VOD, 50 MBPS symmetrical internet and phone down a NLOS wireless solution in the next 5, let alone 10 years. Someone could make some incredible breakthrough in compression algorithms or come up with some snazzy new transmission mode, but there is NOTHING on God's green earth that will provide the bandwidth and upgrade ability of FTTH.

Verizon may very well be laying out upwards of $900 for a triple play install, but they will get that money back. Verizon knows it, and that's why they're talking about expanding their deployment.

With a decrease in land line revenue, Fios is a "deploy or die" gamble for Verizon. They have to move into TV to assure their revenue stream.

Besides, there's more benefit to deploying FTTH than just the revenue. Once uptake reaches a certain percentage of CO customers, you know Verizon will be looking to decommission or sell off their copper plant.

The maintenance and troubleshooting of a fiber network is much easier and cheaper than on a copper network.

A certain cadre of members here seem to constantly bash Verizon's FTTH efforts. Now, I'm not going to sit here and have a love in for Verizon. They screwed us ( the people of Pennsylvania) out of a sack of money the size of Veterans Stadium by way of tax breaks.

But, I must applaud them for having the vision to be the only incumbent provider to see that FTTH is the future, and spend the money doing it.

As the Fios creeps ever closer to my front door (only about 2 miles away now, WOO HOO) I know for sure the moment I find that hanger on my door, I'm signing up.

Even if it's just to get Comcast out of my life, I'm on board.

Verizon has done a fantastic job with both the technical and marketing aspects of Fios. They built an effective brand that people seem to have a high regard for, and I think they're going to make a lot of money.

--
Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…

permalink · 2008-06-04 15:57:53 · Print ·

Dogfather Altitude is your friend Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA ·MegaPath ·Cox HSI ·Verizon FIOS ·Cox VOIP ·Verizon west (ex G.. ·ViaTalk ·Time Warner VOIP ·RoadRunner Cable edit: June 4th, @04:05PM	Re: Last mile will kill them If that is the case (no reasonable alternative to last mile fiber) they'll have no choice but to sell off rural systems. Or they do U-Verse style offering or pure IPTV in those areas where last-mile doesn't have the same FTTH capacity. There's no ROI on a $20,000 per home install or whatever sick amount of money it'll cost to do deployments in very rural areas.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 16:00:04 ·

lvlorpheus

join:2008-02-17
Eureka Springs, AR

Re: Last mile will kill them

So are you saying two of the most profitable companies in this country in the past century never made their investment back in rural America. Or are you saying it is not worth investing in all Americans unless you can get a return on your investment in a few quarters or years.

A Brief History: Origins

»www.corp.att.com/history/history1.html

The AT&T Corp., formerly known as the American Telephone and Telegraph Corporation, is as old as the telephone itself. The company that became AT&T began in 1875, in an arrangement among inventor Alexander Graham Bell and the two men, Gardiner Hubbard and Thomas Sanders, who agreed to finance his work. Bell was trying to invent a talking telegraph -- a telephone. He succeeded, earning patents in 1876 and 1877.

This is a good read too.

»verizonpathetic.com/historylesson.html

And after all of this the poor phone companies lost money for their investment in rural America. Is that what I am to believe.

permalink · 2008-06-06 00:39:05 · Print ·

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

said by N3OGH

:

I doubt the spectrum will exist to push high def VOD, 50 MBPS symmetrical internet and phone down a NLOS wireless solution in the next 5, let alone 10 years.

It can be done, crank up the SNR to the point where a bird will fall down dead if it flys in the path of the directional antenna on your house. When you find the dead bird in your yard, you can call the kids over b/c you have some fried chicken now. You will experiance packet loss while the bird cooks.

permalink · 2008-06-04 17:05:09 · Print ·

N3OGH Will it all be Obama's fault now? Premium join:2003-11-11 Philly burbs	Re: Last mile will kill them MMMMMM, delicious packet loss....
	permalink · 2008-06-05 09:52:48 ·

pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD	Verizon Please Save Us! Verizon hasn't set foot in Frederick or Carroll counties in MD and I don't think they ever plan to... I wonder if this changes that? -- This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!
	permalink · 2008-06-04 13:26:18 ·

JSRoman Premium join:2005-03-10 Callahan, FL	Re: Verizon Please Save Us! said by pnh102 : Verizon hasn't set foot in Frederick or Carroll counties in MD and I don't think they ever plan to... I wonder if this changes that? You might get lucky after 2010. -- »www.seabee.navy.mil
	permalink · 2008-06-04 13:41:38 ·

pennstate95

@verizon.net

said by pnh102

:

Verizon hasn't set foot in Frederick or Carroll counties in MD and I don't think they ever plan to... I wonder if this changes that?

Stop your whining!!! =) I'm in Rockville 2 miles from the Montgomery College campus and STILL can't get FIOS. I tell the reps at the mall selling FIOS and giving people $200 incentives to sign up to stop wasting money recruiting and spending it getting the freakin' line to my house. Cable sucks in my area...goes down constantly and slow as heck sometimes. This is how it was years ago, not sure if it changed any since.

permalink · 2008-06-05 08:35:28 · Print ·

MichaelWacey
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I wonder if..

I wonder if:

They would enter competing telecom areas - see AT&T vs. Verizon.

They would widely deploy FemtoCells to FiOS customers to cut down on their need for Cell Towers.

Make some COs FiOS only for the local loop.

FiOS was a big bet for Verizon that seems to be paying off. It is probably having benefits for the country as a whole too. this should be a textbook case in MBA Schools.

permalink · 2008-06-04 13:29:41 ·

karpodiem join:2008-05-20	Re: I wonder if.. I hope that Verizon expands into AT&T's market. I think I would celebrate that day.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 13:34:48 ·

Dogfather Altitude is your friend Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA	Re: I wonder if.. I think you will see AT&T start moving from FTTN style topology to FTTC or FTTH. ADSL2 just isn't getting the job done.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 13:47:21 ·

bogey780 join:2004-03-19 Covington, LA	Re: I wonder if.. It's a good thing AT&T skipped over ADSL2 and went to higher speed VDSL and VDSL2. Not to mention they have FTTH in some greenbuilds and FTTC in many of their SE markets. It's just a matter of beefing it up.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 14:21:31 ·

Dogfather Altitude is your friend Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA	Re: I wonder if.. Brain fart...I meant VDSL.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 14:22:25 ·

EPS join:2008-02-13 Hingham, MA	I was under the impression that the BellSouth FTTC plant was essentially a dead-end system that wasn't capable of anything faster than 1.5mbps thanks to its technology never being updated, and that in some places it was being torn out for U-Verse FTTN.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 16:59:23 ·

bogey780 join:2004-03-19 Covington, LA	Re: I wonder if.. IFITL was a dead-end. There was 2 generations of systems past it with the latest supporting VDSL2 at full bitrate. Though since it may not work with Uverse, it's gotta go.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 21:23:10 ·

cornelius785 join:2006-10-26 Worcester, MA	do you mean a something like a town being served by 2 telcom companies simultaneously? if so, i don't think that could happen easily.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 13:42:45 ·

deepthinker
Watauga, TX.

join:2001-12-10
Fort Worth, TX

edit:
June 4th, @11:19PM

said by MichaelWacey

:

I wonder if:

They would enter competing telecom areas - see AT&T vs. Verizon.

They would widely deploy FemtoCells to FiOS customers to cut down on their need for Cell Towers.

Make some COs FiOS only for the local loop.

FiOS was a big bet for Verizon that seems to be paying off. It is probably having benefits for the country as a whole too. this should be a textbook case in MBA Schools.

Verizon IS already moving into ATT territory. I have lived in my house for 2 years in solid ATT territory (Former Southwestern Bell/SBC) and NEVER had any Verizon service to choose from at all. Not only that, but ATT has been pitching U-Verse in my neighborhood for almost a year now. Just two weeks ago there was a hanger on the door with Verizon letterhead and letterhead of the contractor saying they were going to being laying fiber in my neighborhood and expanding my choices for TV, phone, etc, blah, blah, blah. So, folks it IS happening and quick. They just put orange flexible conduit in holes in the ground every third house on my street this week and right now as I write this there are three contractors trucks and lanes blocked on the 4 lane street off of mine, although I'm not sure what they are doing now.

permalink · 2008-06-04 23:18:33 · Print ·

haplo2112 join:2003-05-12 Charlton, MA	Charlton, MA would welcome you! We long to throw off the yoke of Charter Cable oppression.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 15:32:38 ·

MrMaster What If Premium join:2000-12-16 Austin, TX clubs:	VZW should come to an AT&T area Nah, we just need more broadband options to offset the cable co's bandwidth caps and filtering. -- One never notices what has been done; one can only see what remains to be done. -Marie Curie
	permalink · 2008-06-04 17:35:23 ·

bugabuga join:2004-06-10 Austin, TX	Re: VZW should come to an AT&T area Supposedly Verizon _did_ overlay certain DFW areas that already were served by AT&T So... not all is lost yet
	permalink · 2008-06-04 17:41:38 ·

Asmodeus1 join:2004-05-26 Spring Valley, CA	come to san diego... i would love to see fios penetrate into the san diego cox cable market.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 20:17:11 ·

ecofolio @verizon.net	fios on the move... in other news... NYC's con-ed (electricity) approved a 15% rate hike.. oh jeez, getting hit over the head with costs of living really sucks. with gas @ $4 a gallon and it's associated costs increases making under $50,000.. you are the down-right working poor in this country now.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 20:35:11 ·

KrK
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Re: fios on the move...

said by ecofolio :

NYC's con-ed (electricity) approved a 15% rate hike..

AEP just got a 21% rate hike approved here.... due to the costs of burning Natural Gas and Oil.

New Nuclear Power-plant, anyone? And let's get some more incentives to home users for Solar/Wind/Water generation....
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)

permalink · 2008-06-05 22:29:19 · Print ·

dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ	Buy Qworst and make arizona a "have" area. I welcome Verizon's fios with open arms.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 20:42:32 ·

Sammer join:2005-12-22 Pittsburgh, PA	Re: Buy Qworst They aren't interested in Qwest because it has too many rural areas. Even in many of Verizon's rural areas in the east it is likely that a lot of people live close to a CO.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 21:08:43 ·

bogey780 join:2004-03-19 Covington, LA	They sold off states just to solidify their core major markets. They're not into charity.
	permalink · 2008-06-04 21:23:52 ·

robertfl Premium join:2005-10-10 Mary Esther, FL	buy out embarq and make fort walton a have area. embarq sucks. -Rob
	permalink · 2008-06-04 21:44:24 ·

Iridium
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Los Angeles, CA

·DSL EXTREME

edit:
June 5th, @02:17AM

Come on Los Angeles...

My friend moved to Manhattan Beach, they have 15/5 Fios and all they do is email!

Can Vzw put Fios in areas that Pacific Hell owns? I know PB owns the copper, but could Verizon come up with fiber to the curb then use vdsl to get into the houses? Pacific Bell won't ever get fiber optics for home users, I can go out on a limb and state that.
--
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permalink · 2008-06-05 02:14:50 ·

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Verizon Please Save Us!

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Charlton, MA would welcome you!

VZW should come to an AT&T area

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come to san diego...

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Buy Qworst

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buy out embarq

Come on Los Angeles...