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story category Infighting At ISPs Over Using NebuAD
Network engineers being ignored by execs with dollar signs in their eyes....
(old news - 01:50PM Thursday May 29 2008)
tags: business · cable
I've had an interesting few months talking with individuals at a number of ISPs, each of which has either already, or is in the process of, implementing NebuAD user-tracking technology (unfamiliar? Go here). There's a few things to note, one of which is that I'm noticing an even larger disconnect than usual between technicians (who think the system violates user trust) and executives (who are absolutely blinded by dollar signs) on this issue.

Obviously a disconnect between the MBAs and network operations is nothing new, but it's more pronounced with the development of new advertising opportunities. Many technicians absolutely hated the idea of ISPs using DNS redirection (ad delivery via page not found) to sell advertising, but their protests were ignored and the practice has almost become industry standard. Security and "clean 'net" functionality be damned.

Internal debates over whether to use NebuAD deep packet inspection hardware seems to be even more intense. One ISP employee tells me there's been internal infighting for most of this year over whether to launch NebuAD. An employee for a second ISP that's preparing a launch tells me that everyone at his CO thinks the idea is terrible, have said as much at meetings and directly to marketing, but have been ignored.

I think management here just sees it as money on the table.
-Anonymous ISP employee
"I think management here just sees it as money on the table," says another ISP employee. "NebuAd has a pretty convincing sales pitch. They know how to make their product appeal to ISPs and have plenty of marketing material."

One employee tells me their employer stands to make at least $2.50 per month per user. For a small or debt-laden company (like say Charter) the offer is hard to ignore, even if they may be violating privacy laws and annoying customers.

According to the NebuAD sales pitch to ISPs, only about 1% of users opt-out of the system. That's probably no thanks to ISPs burying the fact they even use the system in fine print. When they do clearly announce it, it's been promoted as a "service enhancement." One ISP has gone so far as to suggest it's as good as getting faster speeds.

On top of the cash income, NebuAD tells ISPs they'll be provided with monthly metrics on the top sites visited, and even the number of times competitors' websites were visited. I'm told NebuAD is even able to build profiles of individual people using the same IP address (ex: users behind a NAT device). In short, the additional income and competitive intelligence gained easily over-rides any moral opposition to privacy implications.

Click for full size
"It looks like we're moving forward with the trial next month regardless of how I or any of my co-workers feel about it," says an employee at one ISP. "I've pretty much accepted that at this point, so it's not likely anything I'll walk out over."

I was amused to hear the employee is going to ensure they aren't tracked.

"We have two upstream links to the Internet and the NebuAd spybox will only be hooked up to one of them, so I know at least for my home connection I'll be setting a static route to use the non-poisoned link," they say. "I don't want to go anywhere near it." How's that for a candid vote of confidence?

One additional thing to note is that I'm told NebuAD is informing ISPs that they are working on a new opt-out system. As I've discussed, the current system uses cookies and only prevents targeted ad delivery, it doesn't stop your ISP from tracking and selling your browsing history. The new system, I'm told, will rely on IP address instead of cookies to opt-users out.

My guess? You can expect every ISP in the industry to be using NebuAD technology (or some variant) within the next two years. I expect some continued scuff ups started by privacy advocates and annoyed customers, but I imagine NebuAD and ISP lawyers will stay one step ahead of them. Online advertising is a $11 billion (and growing) business, and it's been fairly apparent that the FTC's priority is protecting revenue streams, not consumers.

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Forums » Infighting At ISPs Over Using NebuAD
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:

edit:
May 29th, @01:25PM

OK, which ISPs already are or will use this technology?

talking with individuals at a number of ISPs, each of which has either already, or is in the process of, implementing NebuAD
OK, which ISPs already are or will use this technology?

N10Cities
Is it quittin' time yet?

join:2002-05-07
Podunk, AR
clubs:

Re: OK, which ISPs already are or will use this technology?

It looks like Centurytel will soon be one...

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

Re: OK, which ISPs already are or will use this technology?

Gee. Isn't it great, when all this lovely NebuAD logs and data will be collected--- perfect for subpoena for things like divorce battles, custody fights, termination of employment, and other lawsuits and background checks.

Great. Just what we needed.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)

coastjam
Premium
join:2001-03-05
Atascadero, CA
·Charter Pipeline
·Vonage

they have all been using this technology and for some time. Now that they have the history to sell to the ISP's that is works is what you need to worry about. They have all been collecting data and tracking your patterns how else would they know this is a money maker. They tested it before they pitched the idea. Check your logs. The history is there.
--
In a closed society where everybody is guiltily, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S. Thompson

shimonmor

join:2000-12-30
Sedro Woolley, WA

Bring it on...

Use FF and Adblock Plus.
Anomaly95

join:2005-12-11
Phoenix, AZ

Re: Bring it on...

I do. However, I don't like the idea that my browsing history is up for sale.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME

Re: Bring it on...

Wether its from the ISP, DNS, or web servers (via cookie), all stats collection is for sale.
This is the information age, and it is and has always been for sale at some point.

When you purchase a house... do you not immediately get flooded with junk mail ? Your mortgage information is sold. Data miners are out there, and will pay for trending info.

Where it gets touchy is deep packet inspection, and what particular information is sold, and what comes with it. I.E. Selling your browsing history (google) vs. selling information which ties you to which online bank you use.
--
Canada = Hollywood North

swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: Bring it on...

The Google cookie, and other tracking by advertisers online, is not comparable to the Nebuad spybox. The difference is that you can opt out of any online tracking by ad servers, etc. if you are well-informed enough to know what to do about cookies, javascript and other tricks that websites use. But when it's the ISP doing the data-mining, you can't opt out without the ISP allowing you to, because all your traffic is intercepted between you and the internet.

And of course the ISPs can put whatever they want in their "terms of service" and the vast majority of internet users don't have a choice of any other provider offering better terms. This is called (by economists) a market failure. (The telcos and cablecos talk about "letting the market handle it" when they want to avoid regulation, but they do all they can to prevent competition.)

That's why we need legislation to protect us from abuses like this.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME

Re: Bring it on...

True - there is a VERY big difference between session logging at the web site level and intercepting/snarfing/eavesdropping on all packets, and reselling 'some' of the information.

I think that even if there was a significant amount of competition, most, if not all would sell your information. Those that wouldn't sell your information would charge a premium... and you still can't guarantee that they wouldn't do it anyways.
--
Canada = Hollywood North

rrz103
RichardZ
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Canton, MI

I think the more appropriate analogy is: you buy a house, and movement from room to room, what you eat from the fridge and when, etc., is analyzed by an outside party.

More to the point, there is no excuse for this kind of monitoring and privacy violation--even in the "information age."

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: Bring it on...

CEO's that are cashing in may beg to differ.
--
Canada = Hollywood North

rrz103
RichardZ
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Canton, MI

Re: Bring it on...

I'm sure they would beg to differ since they have the most to gain by violating customer's privacy under this scheme. So why would we consider their defense of this invasion of privacy when they are obviously biased and have an agenda?
--
RichardZ @ »richardz.com
BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by shimonmor See Profile :

Use FF and Adblock Plus.
That doesn't stop them from collecting your browsing info and selling it.
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

said by shimonmor See Profile :

Use FF and Adblock Plus.
This doesn't stop the ISP from harvesting your browsing history at the server level.

obvoiusjoe

@charter.com

Re: Bring it on...

said by SilverSurfer See Profile :

said by shimonmor See Profile :

Use FF and Adblock Plus.
This doesn't stop the ISP from harvesting your browsing history at the server level.
ALL isp's have this data anyway. It's called a DNS server.

And some of you think YOUR data is for sale, when it's just the data collected from your IP address.

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy

Re: Bring it on...

said by obvoiusjoe :

said by SilverSurfer See Profile :

said by shimonmor See Profile :

Use FF and Adblock Plus.
This doesn't stop the ISP from harvesting your browsing history at the server level.
ALL isp's have this data anyway. It's called a DNS server.
Really? Show of hands from the people that don't use their ISPs' DNS servers?

Granted, DSLR is a bit of a different crowd...
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

obvoiusjoe

@charter.com

Re: Bring it on...

said by nixen See Profile :

Really? Show of hands from the people that don't use their ISPs' DNS servers?

Granted, DSLR is a bit of a different crowd...
Wow. You made a point, only to slam you fingers in the door with the next point. Nice. LMAO.

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy

Re: Bring it on...

said by obvoiusjoe :

said by nixen See Profile :

Really? Show of hands from the people that don't use their ISPs' DNS servers?

Granted, DSLR is a bit of a different crowd...
Wow. You made a point, only to slam you fingers in the door with the next point. Nice. LMAO.
The point being, "joe", that you don't do it with the DNS servers. It's done elsewhere in the connectivity chain - or is that too obvious for you?
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

obvoiusjoe

@charter.com

Re: Bring it on...

said by nixen See Profile :

The point being, "joe", that you don't do it with the DNS servers. It's done elsewhere in the connectivity chain - or is that too obvious for you?
Your point is off base. My point "nix" is that DNS servers store all this data anyway, and have been for decades. But people don't make such a big fuss over that for some reason. Now all of a sudden, ISPs are cashing (or caching could be a better spelling) in and you act surprised. I'll be happy to sit here and explain the OSI model and we can get deep with this if you want, but for your sake, for your children's sake, please know that nothing you do online is ever 100% anonymous or safe.

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy

Re: Bring it on...

said by obvoiusjoe :

Your point is off base. My point "nix" is that DNS servers store all this data anyway, and have been for decades. But people don't make such a big fuss over that for some reason.
Actually, no, DNS servers don't "store all this data anyway". At least, not in the way you seem to think that they do, and definitely not in the way that would be useful in the context of a "service" like NebuAd. In the normal functioning of a DNS server (i.e., not in debug mode - and even then, you're generally not so much storing it as logging it), the only information that is cached, is the data that is looked up - not who (what client) looked it up.

said by obvoiusjoe :

Now all of a sudden, ISPs are cashing (or caching could be a better spelling) in and you act surprised.
Only surprised in as much as ISPs used to prize their common-carrier protections. Things like this really put those protections into jeopardy.

said by obvoiusjoe :

I'll be happy to sit here and explain the OSI model and we can get deep with this if you want,
Sure. Go ahead. This is 2008, not the mid 1980s, but I can sit around for story-time...

said by obvoiusjoe :

but for your sake, for your children's sake, please know that nothing you do online is ever 100% anonymous or safe.
Ah, yes... The ever popular "for the children" argument. What next: NebuAd protects me from terrorism? You must have cried the day that Gonzales resigned.
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

said by obvoiusjoe :

ALL isp's have this data anyway. It's called a DNS server.
What does the DNS server have to do with it? You can use any DNS server you like, including switching away from your ISP's DNS server.

What you can't do is avoid going through your ISP's aggregation routers. And that is exactly where the ISP will place the DPI appliance. You either go to the Internet through your ISP's DPI appliance, or you don't go to the Internet at all.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

knightmb

join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·Comcast
·Vonage
·Speakeasy

said by shimonmor See Profile :

Use FF and Adblock Plus.
I do and will, but fight back even more. If this hardware is going to log all your websites, then I say generate so much "fake" traffic that it becomes useless.

I'm already working on such a simple javascript right now that people can point their web browser to and it just loads up random domains over and over (like »blahabc.com, »googleblahbac.com, etc)

With so much fake data, it would make the machine useless and probably max out it's logs with enough fake data. Get enough people using it and bring it to it's knees.

knightmb

join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·Comcast
·Vonage
·Speakeasy


edit:
May 29th, @05:08PM

Fight Back Now!

Here you go:
»wanip.org/anti-nebuad/

Just bookmark that for future use. It's still in development, but for now it just opens a little iframe, loads some random garbage site every 3 second. With cookies enabled, I'm going to add options that visitors will be able to tweak such as how many to open at once, fake visit counter, tweaks to random site name, how many seconds to refresh another one, pause button, etc.

Maybe later a stats page of how much money they lost using NebuAD, etc.

knightmb

join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·Comcast
·Vonage
·Speakeasy

Re: Fight Back Now!

Click for full size
Website Screenshot
Ok, here's my "stick it to the man" deed for today.

How does it work?

Calls up a simple iFrame, makes it small (in case it hits a site that you wouldn't want someone to see) and loads that site up. After a delay, it loads the next random site. If you have cookies enabled, you can set options like how fast it refreshes, reset the counter, pause it, how random things are, etc.

It's all client based, so it generates real HTTP traffic. The code is very simple and straight forward, should work on all browsers (tested it on Firefox, IE, Opera, Safari so far)

The different randomization modes work as:

Standard: Just a random 12 character site name, it might be real, might not.

Variable Length: Like standard except the domain will be between 5 and 15 characters, so might actually hit a real site in between sometimes.

Mix with Real Site: Basically as it says, you get random sites that don't exist and real sites that do (pop up blocker recommended just in case, it is random after all)

Crazy Random: A mixture of all three above, so you don't know what the heck it will do. Maybe a real site, maybe a bogus site, maybe garbage.

I was laughing the entire time I wrote the code for this.

DownTheShore
Doing A Happy Dance
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Edison, NJ
clubs:

Re: Fight Back Now!

Interesting. Your link will open up on FF, but on IE7 I get a redirect to a Gateway Google page. If I enter the IP address directly (obtained from the FF screen) I get:

"The Website You Are Looking For Is No Longer Active.

Please Contact Your Hosting Company"
--
Life is simply one damned thing after another.

knightmb

join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·Comcast
·Vonage
·Speakeasy

Re: Fight Back Now!

said by DownTheShore See Profile :

Interesting. Your link will open up on FF, but on IE7 I get a redirect to a Gateway Google page. If I enter the IP address directly (obtained from the FF screen) I get:

"The Website You Are Looking For Is No Longer Active.

Please Contact Your Hosting Company"
I did find a bug in the code related to the random site generation, not sure if that is what causes IE7 to bomb out. Yeah, direct site IP access is disabled for security reasons.

I did notice that it runs much slower in IE than all the others, mainly due to the way IE "stalls" on the invalid domains with it's own "domain not found" page. Can't help that in IE though, just the nature of the Microsoft beast.
number3fan
Number3fan

join:2003-10-15
Got a great name for this...... bandwidth waster :-P

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
This will be great when the low caps/bill by the byte is started too. Even if you block the ads, you will still be charged for them.
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

Spread the word...

I expect this byline to pick up speed as more people are alerted to it just like the Comcraptic throttling of P2P. I also expect those ISPs caught using NebuAD to be in the same shit pile.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·AT&T Southeast
·Mediacom

Re: Spread the word...

The problem is the same. Only a relatively small number of consumers really care and throttling, DNS redirects, target advertising, etc. Just like everything else in this world, until sufficient numbers take issue with specific policies, nothing is going to change.
dcurrey

join:2004-06-29

Https

Guess all website will have to start using encryption to keep the site from being altered by the isp. Personally I think this type of thing would violate copyrights right and left.
Anomaly95

join:2005-12-11
Phoenix, AZ

EFF?

Does anyone know where the EFF sits on this issue? I figured they would've already pounced on this.

See 9 replies to this post

Millenniumle

join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY


edit:
May 29th, @02:00PM

...

I'm not much of a "hate corporate America" kinda guy, but Google and ISP's sure are doing a good job of making a connection an undesirable thing to have.

Way to go!! Hope the money is good. And, of course, it is, so on it will go.

Not to mention my crunching budget, but tracking/selling along with Microsoft's plans of rented software have started me to push away from internet and computers. I have a cheapy connecton. Lightning speed is no longer appealing. I'd rather pay as little as possible for the shitty treatment I'm receiving. I buy only inexpensive second hand computers. Top notch hardware is no longer appealing in the face of software set to rape me.

Way to go guys. You make me long for 1996, Windows 95, and my old dial-up. I sure did enjoy owning a computer and being on the internet, then.....

funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
·Comcast

Re: ...

THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK.

but Google and ISP's sure are doing a good job of making a connection an undesirable thing to have
I'm wondering why you lumped Google in there? My rationale is that they're different because they're avoidable. Your ISP's man-in-the-middle surveillance is not.

Millenniumle

join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY

...

THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK, EITHER!!

I agree it is avoidable, and different because of it. But, Google's tracking intentions are the same. They are seemingly almost everywhere and their cookies are persistant. I guess that's why I feel the same about the two.

funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR

Re: ...

Thanks!

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL

Selling out

How is this deep packet inspection spying, any different than a voice recognition system at the CO, recording/analyzing your telephone communications to determine what sales calls you will most likely purchase from? Oh, and then sell the data to telemarketers!

We would not accept this right? So how is it we are accepting this crap?

By accepting this, we are selling out to those who would violate our privacy for a Yankee dollar.

Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here.

wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice

Re: Selling out

said by TamaraB See Profile :

How is this deep packet inspection spying, any different than a voice recognition system at the CO, recording/analyzing your telephone communications to determine what sales calls you will most likely purchase from? Oh, and then sell the data to telemarketers!
Its not the same thing, as nobody is actually reading your emails and so forth. A better example would be that the phone company analyzed your monthly calling patterns, and then you received ads in the mail for long distance calling plans based on those patterns.
--
Have YOU thanked a soldier today? If not, think about doing it as you speak ENGLISH this memorial day. God Bless America, and God Bless our troops.
BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: Selling out

said by wifi4milez See Profile :

Its not the same thing, as nobody is actually reading your emails and so forth. A better example would be that the phone company analyzed your monthly calling patterns, and then you received ads in the mail for long distance calling plans based on those patterns.
I would have an issue with that too. No one has a right to see who I have called except the police and they need awarrent FIRST.

wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice

Re: Selling out

said by BF69 See Profile :

said by wifi4milez See Profile :

Its not the same thing, as nobody is actually reading your emails and so forth. A better example would be that the phone company analyzed your monthly calling patterns, and then you received ads in the mail for long distance calling plans based on those patterns.
I would have an issue with that too. No one has a right to see who I have called except the police and they need awarrent FIRST.
Again, its a little different. The data collected is (according to NebuAd at least!) annonymized (sp?), therefore a person isnt actually taking note of the specific activity.
--
Have YOU thanked a soldier today? If not, think about doing it as you speak ENGLISH this memorial day. God Bless America, and God Bless our troops.

Richard B
Fur It Up

join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR
·Comcast

Just Say No

Ultimately it the owners not the employees that call the shot s. The technicians forget who they work for and the purpose of a company is to make money. On the other hand, best way counter NebAD is the consumer to boycott any company that sends ads using NebAD system. Money talks; if NebuAD doesn't generate any profit the system goes away. Let put it this was , if I find out your company is using my profile to send targeted ad, I will not do business at that company. They have lost my business.
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

Pollute the data?

Would it be possible to pollute the data by writing a program that, to the NebuAD box, looks like a browser? It could send out tons of bogus HTTP requests that would hide the sites your real browser is looking at by mixing them into the flood of packets. If enough users ran it, it would make the NebuAD data absolutely worthless.

If I were a programmer, I'd write it, but since I'm not, maybe someone out there could give it a shot. Call it SurfGuard, and every user out there would want it, even if they didn't know exactly what it did.

See 6 replies to this post

digitalfreak
Frodo failed. Bush has the ring

join:2005-12-09
49533

Since when

Since when do suits listen to engineers (ya know, the smart people)?

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
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Limbo
·Skype
·RoadRunner Cable

History repeats itself

"Network engineers being ignored by execs with dollar signs in their eyes...."

"serious disconnect between technicians (who think the system violates user trust) and executives (who are absolutely blinded by dollar signs) "

History is rife with disasters resulting from management's unwillingness to listen to their engineers. Sometimes I wonder why companies hire engineers when the execs seem so often unwilling to listen to them if their concerns are in violation of the almighty dollar--consequences be damned.

"One ISP has gone so far as to suggest it's as good as getting faster speeds"

Until marketers are held to the heat for desceptive marketing or perhaps develop some ethics people will never understand how they're being screwed. The edge for how far marketing can make claims always seems to be getting pushed toward deception.
--
Wishes: When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor. --despair.com

bleearg13

join:2001-03-03
Gaithersburg, MD

Re: History repeats itself

said by fireflier See Profile :

Until marketers are held to the heat for desceptive marketing or perhaps develop some ethics people will never understand how they're being screwed. The edge for how far marketing can make claims always seems to be getting pushed toward deception.
Many (not all) marketers are one step above child pornographers in my book. Their job consists mainly of social and mental manipulation of the masses.

No to ESPN

@sbcglobal.net

Reality Part 2

MBAs are the lawyers of the 21st century. They are OK in small amounts but should be allowed to reproduce.

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo

Re: Reality Part 2

said by No to ESPN :

MBAs are the lawyers of the 21st century. They are OK in small amounts but should be allowed to reproduce.
Do you mean should NOT be allowed to reproduce?

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Not Exactly News

quote:
There's a few things to note, one of which is that I'm noticing a serious disconnect between technicians ... and executives ...
This has been a problem in just about every technical organization since the beginning of time.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
·Cox HSI

encrypted proxy?

So is it time to start seriously considering a good fast encrypted proxy to everything?

This tracking ought to be flat out illegal.

Invasion of personal info at this level should be reserved solely for a PROBABLE CAUSE of inspecting one's communications, AFTER a warrant has been issued for a GOOD FRAKING REASON!

How do I determine if an ISP is doing this?
Opting out sounds like the path of least resistance in such cases, but dammit, this is just so wrong.

So we have everything tapped by "the man" now, and now this, probably another tap somewhere else...
when is enough enough?
How much latency does all this insanity add to connections?

Glad to know the engineers don't like it. Good for them being able to totally bypass it as well.

As customers (we PAY for this? Wait, we PAY THEM to track us even more? To ADD further latency, and to ADD further problems to their own network!) this is an outrage. Only real thing we can probably do is to start using some serious proxies.

They can eat my encrypted packets that appear to only flow to a few random places if this is the game they want to play.

rsa0

join:2003-01-25
Alpharetta, GA

Re: encrypted proxy?

How about a software that would throw off my browsing habits, like opening and closing 10-50 pages a minute...let's see then what history will they get !
--
Comcast free !
jaminus

join:2004-10-14
Arlington, VA

Re: encrypted proxy?

that will just clog your connection, possibly expose you to legal penalties, and may well not even fool NebuAd. encrypted tunneling is a far better way to protect your privacy.

rsa0

join:2003-01-25
Alpharetta, GA
·Charter Pipeline
·GalaxyVoice
·BroadVoice

Re: encrypted proxy?

said by jaminus See Profile :

that will just clog your connection, possibly expose you to legal penalties, and may well not even fool NebuAd. encrypted tunneling is a far better way to protect your privacy.
How would my browsing "habit" be illegal? I can open and close 1000 pages a minute if I want too. What makes it illegal? I am as legal as they are going through my history...This guys are like dumpster divers, and I am just feeding them junk !

Ludwig 229

@comcast.net

Re: encrypted proxy?

»arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20···fbi.html

Trust me, you don't want your computer visiting 1000s of URLs unless you know for sure they're all safe. In this day and age an HTTP request from your IP address to another is enough for the feds to come crushing down on you, it seems.