The U.S.'s Most Dangerous ProfessionFive wireless tower climbers dead in last week... ( old news - 04:46PM Friday Apr 25 2008) tags: wireless · hardwareWhile it pays well (as it should), wireless tower climbing and construction is the most dangerous U.S. occupation when measured in terms of death rate per 100,000 employees. According to Wireless Estimator, there's been a recent spike in the number of tower climbing and construction fatalities, with five climbers dying within the last week alone. Deaths in Mississippi, Georgia, Texas and two deaths in South Carolina have caused the industry to re-examine its safety procedures and conduct some refresher safety courses for climbers: Bechtel Corporation's northeast regional and market construction managers are holding mandatory safety stand down meetings this week for its construction employees and their subcontractors and their subtier subcontractors. Their safety topic will be refreshing the back to basics with a strong focus on working at heights. Attention is being focused on this subject because of the fatalities which have recently occurred. They said that AT&T has required its contractors and suppliers to immediately hold the stand down meetings. Back in 2006, ISP Planet explored how much WISPs pay for such technicians (and their insurance). Climbers often charge $1,500 or more a day plus additional insurance fees; one climber notes that he bills out at $295.00 per hour.
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Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA | Its not the fall thats fatal... Its not the fall that fatal, it's the sudden stop at the end :P | |
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Matt
You can't fix stupid
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
 ·Corporate Colocation
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... said by gatorkram  :said by Jerm :Its not the fall that fatal, it's the sudden stop at the end :P Do you really think, in a news item, that talks about five people dieing, that there is room for jokes? I for one think it is in very poor taste. I thought it was funny. ::shrug:: | |
| | | ke4pym
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC | People die all the time. And they'll continue to die.
The joke was funny.
Stupid sudden stops. | |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Optimum Online
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... said by ke4pym :People die all the time. And they'll continue to die. The joke was funny. Stupid sudden stops. Mr. Forrest,
Perhaps you should remember that next time a ham, or perhaps yourself dies climbing a tower.
-Tzale
--
Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not true conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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Sly
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Johnson City, TN
clubs: | Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... I'm sure he'll remember that the next time he dies in a climbing accident.  Lighten up. | |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... said by Sly :I'm sure he'll remember that the next time he dies in a climbing accident. Lighten up. It isn't something to joke about. Plenty of people die every year because of falling off towers... Amateur Radio operators are probably higher in the rate of fatalities due to not having proper training...
-Tzale
--
Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not true conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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Sly
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Johnson City, TN
clubs:
·Embarq
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... said by Tzale :said by Sly :I'm sure he'll remember that the next time he dies in a climbing accident. Lighten up. It isn't something to joke about. Plenty of people die every year because of falling off towers... Amateur Radio operators are probably higher in the rate of fatalities due to not having proper training... -Tzale I think it's been 22.3 years since the first climbing accident... Falling off towers is funny now. 
/southpark reference | |
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Matt
You can't fix stupid
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation
| said by Tzale :said by Sly :I'm sure he'll remember that the next time he dies in a climbing accident. Lighten up. It isn't something to joke about. Plenty of people die every year because of falling off towers... Amateur Radio operators are probably higher in the rate of fatalities due to not having proper training... -Tzale Then it's even funnier that they climb towers without proper training and equipment. Darwin for the win! | |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
edit:
April 26th, @01:06PM
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... said by Matt :said by Tzale :said by Sly :I'm sure he'll remember that the next time he dies in a climbing accident. Lighten up. It isn't something to joke about. Plenty of people die every year because of falling off towers... Amateur Radio operators are probably higher in the rate of fatalities due to not having proper training... -Tzale Then it's even funnier that they climb towers without proper training and equipment. Darwin for the win! What the hell are you talking about?
How is it fucking funny? Are you sick in your head?
I'm sure you do stupid things everyday that endanger your life... Darwinism is really getting old, don't ya' think?
Climbing towers without equipment is stupid... I agree... But saying that someone's death is FUNNY is just horrible.
-Tzale
--
Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not true conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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Matt
You can't fix stupid
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... said by Tzale :What the hell are you talking about? How is it fucking funny? Are you sick in your head? I'm sure you do stupid things everyday that endanger your life... Darwinism is really getting old, don't ya' think? Climbing towers without equipment is stupid... I agree... But saying that someone's death is FUNNY is just horrible. -Tzale I drive a car, I occasionally fly in a plane, but I don't climb mountains or radio towers, wrestle with alligators, or use lions in my Las Vegas show. Why? Because I am not trained to do those things.
I find idiots who do extremely dangerous things without proper training funny. Why do you think so many people watch NASCAR? It's not for the constant left turns. | |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... said by Matt :said by Tzale :What the hell are you talking about? How is it fucking funny? Are you sick in your head? I'm sure you do stupid things everyday that endanger your life... Darwinism is really getting old, don't ya' think? Climbing towers without equipment is stupid... I agree... But saying that someone's death is FUNNY is just horrible. -Tzale I drive a car, I occasionally fly in a plane, but I don't climb mountains or radio towers, wrestle with alligators, or use lions in my Las Vegas show. Why? Because I am not trained to do those things. I find idiots who do extremely dangerous things without proper training funny. Why do you think so many people watch NASCAR? It's not for the constant left turns. The liberal mind.
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Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not true conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
edit:
April 28th, @12:41AM
| said by Matt :said by Tzale :What the hell are you talking about? How is it fucking funny? Are you sick in your head? I'm sure you do stupid things everyday that endanger your life... Darwinism is really getting old, don't ya' think? Climbing towers without equipment is stupid... I agree... But saying that someone's death is FUNNY is just horrible. -Tzale I drive a car, I occasionally fly in a plane, but I don't climb mountains or radio towers, wrestle with alligators, or use lions in my Las Vegas show. Why? Because I am not trained to do those things. I find idiots who do extremely dangerous things without proper training funny. Why do you think so many people watch NASCAR? It's not for the constant left turns. Wanna make a joke about this?
Year 2008 in Iraq: Jan-40 us soldiers dead
Feb-29 ""
Mar-39 ""
Apr-40 ""
War is hell and guess the F-what? People die. Even when they ARE well trained. But it sure doesn't make it funny or warrant smart-ass's making jokes about it. Maybe if your brother beat an antenna element he was trying to secure to the ground, you wouldn't be flapping your gums trying to be funny. You might get a little pissed by the true coldness of your remark or justification is said comment. It comes from within so it says a lot about you. And that goes for the rest of you who jumped on the bandwagon. So, hope when one of your kids or parents are killed by a drunk driver, you can come back here and say "oh well, that's the chance you take driving when you can't out maneuver a drunk. It's funny they died because my son or mom needed more "training". | |
| | | Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
·SONIC.NET
| said by gatorkram :said by Jerm :Its not the fall that fatal, it's the sudden stop at the end :P Do you really think, in a news item, that talks about five people dieing, that there is room for jokes? I for one think it is in very poor taste. Despite your protest, the fact that they could wear a properly set up parachute of some sort would indicate that the fact that the fall itself is not fatal is a very good key piece of information in figuring out how to potentially avoiding injury.
Since the fall itself is not fatal, a nice parachute with good practice would probably be a very good idea, and would often cause some manner of injury avoidance. | |
| | | | cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA | Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... Most deaths occurred at an altitude where a parachute canopy would not properly open. It is also highly possible they will not be in the proper position to get a canopy to open without slamming them into the tower or simply wrapping them up. | |
| | | | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... Well if it were me personally, I'd suffice to say wrapping up or hitting the tower is a much better option than plummeting to your death. I mean depending on the force you hit the tower, it might be fatal or lead to severe injuries. Still, you might just have a few broken bones. It beats the alternative, almost certain death. If base jumpers got Parachutes that can open, Im sure something can be made for these guys. | |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... said by jc100 :Well if it were me personally, I'd suffice to say wrapping up or hitting the tower is a much better option than plummeting to your death. I mean depending on the force you hit the tower, it might be fatal or lead to severe injuries. Still, you might just have a few broken bones. It beats the alternative, almost certain death. If base jumpers got Parachutes that can open, Im sure something can be made for these guys. What good is a parachute if it hits the tower when it opens? Their point is that you will STILL die, it will just be prolonged and more gruesome now that you hit on your way down.
-Tzale
--
Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not true conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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| | | | | | cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| said by jc100 :Well if it were me personally, I'd suffice to say wrapping up or hitting the tower is a much better option than plummeting to your death. I mean depending on the force you hit the tower, it might be fatal or lead to severe injuries. Still, you might just have a few broken bones. It beats the alternative, almost certain death. If base jumpers got Parachutes that can open, Im sure something can be made for these guys. Wrapping up will only help the coroner who has something with all of the pieces in it, you will die. In most cases the same is true of hitting the tower because it will prevent the chute from deploying properly.
Base jumpers typically jump from 1000' or higher, and are prepared before they fall. Tower climbers typically fall from less than 500' and are not prepared. There is no way you can get into position and deploy a chute when you are not prepared in under 5 seconds (approx time for a 500' fall).
Instead of wearing a cumbersome parachute rig, simply working safely and alertly will prevent you from needing it. I say that being one of "those guys", I'd never wear a chute, opting instead for 100% tieoff. | |
| | | | | | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... Well I am not advocating a parachute overtake safety measures in any given way. Hell, these people should be tied to the tower like telephone poll workers do on their way up. However, I was merely saying this should be a back up if humanly possible. Let's face it, even with 100 percent tie off rate, there might be the few times your equipment fails. As for the fall time, your math is a bit wrong. Things fall at a rate of 27 feet per second per second. I suck at math but I'd suffice to say you got a bit longer but not much. Maybe 10 or 15 seconds. Math isn't my top subject so I'll skip trying to work out the formula =). You can do that one to get an actual number. Either way, you don't got long but being tangled up is still better than a sudden and certain death. At least you can have a proper funeral and a slim chance of survival. A 500 foot drop leaves little to none for both. | |
| | | | | | | | Hanko
join:2001-12-28
Eatonville, WA
·Qwest.net
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... I agree with the 100% tie off, what is your reaction time to open a chute while falling off. For arguments sake lets say it is 2 seconds, and it takes 2 seconds for the chute to open before it begins to slow you down. Total 4 seconds.
Acceleration due to gravity on the earth averages about 32.23 feet/second/second. A simplified formula for the time it takes to fall is Time = Sq Root of(Distance/16.115)
300' fall = 4.3 seconds ..... still hit at a high rate
500' fall = 5.5 seconds ..... you were going faster - still hit at high rate.
1000' fall = 7.8 seconds ..... good chance you were able to break a few bones but better chance you will not make it.
All of this is because of your reaction time. Base jumpers pop their chute immediately at lower elevations. Working on a tower you have that 2 second delay, if you can find the right ring to pull.
I still opt for better safety practices until they come out with the auto deploying air bag system (like used for the mars rovers to land).
just my 2 cents. | |
| | | | | | | | | MichaelWacey
Premium
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA
·Comcast
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... Why not create an inflatable device that wraps around the bottom of the tower? Like a moon bounch. The truck could have an air pump. It probably would not interfere with the work very much. My guess is the companies will not want to take on the additional cost. | |
| | | | | | | | | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... A guess and just a guess would be that prevention smells liability. If a worker fails to follow safety protocol and dies, his or her family can sue but most likely would fail or not win big unless they showed serious wrong doing. However, if said company set up these devices (which I doubt would work but let's assume they do) and a worker still died, the company would be facing a huge financial loss. Said family could say the company gave the worker a false sense of security and the device failed to work. Then, they'd be on the offensive stating that it was a backup and not intended to be a failsafe. Hence, I just imagine its cheaper to let the worker fall and write it off as stupidity of human error than to try to take preventative measures. | |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: | the parachute would probably throw off their balance also. as well as be too close to the ground to deploy. But if i would do it i sure would have a parachute. But you wouldn't find me atop there. | |
| | | | | | | birdfeedr
Premium
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... said by Tzale :What else is new in a society that lacks morals and has no respect for itself? -Tzale I don't think it's lack of respect or morals. For most people, except the sociopaths, it's mostly whistling past the graveyard. | |
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removed
I performed my own circumcision
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-08
Houston, TX
clubs:
| said by gatorkram :Do you really think, in a news item, that talks about five people dieing, that there is room for jokes? Absolutely. I chuckled. | |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
·Suddenlink
·Cirtex Hosting
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... said by removed :said by gatorkram :Do you really think, in a news item, that talks about five people dieing, that there is room for jokes? Absolutely. I chuckled. I really doubt you did. The joke is almost as old as death itself. Oh wait, now did I make a joke?
--
Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 | |
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Seandhi
Seeing From a New Level
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Humble, TX
| Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... said by gatorkram :said by removed :said by gatorkram :Do you really think, in a news item, that talks about five people dieing, that there is room for jokes? Absolutely. I chuckled. I really doubt you did. The joke is almost as old as death itself. Oh wait, now did I make a joke? Yeah, but it wasn't funny... unlike the original poster's joke, which made me smile.
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You're an enlightened cat, and I dig that. | |
| | | | | | | Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| said by gatorkram :said by Jerm :Its not the fall that fatal, it's the sudden stop at the end :P Do you really think, in a news item, that talks about five people dieing, that there is room for jokes? I for one think it is in very poor taste. How about this one for a fun fact. 100% of all people that are born will die. Things that make you go hmmm. | |
| | | | james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica | Re: Its not the fall thats fatal... Fact: you're dying right now. | |
| | | footballdude
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| said by gatorkram :Do you really think, in a news item, that talks about five people dieing, that there is room for jokes? I for one think it is in very poor taste. If falling to your doom isn't funny, then Wyle E Coyote's got some 'splaining to do.
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What's certain about Darwinism is that it would take less time for (1) a single-celled organism to evolve into a human being through mutation and natural selection than for (2) Darwinists to admit they have no proof of (1) - Ann Coulter | |
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Pizz
Hi
join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY | Good luck! And i mean that, to all the techs up in the sky  | |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | deadliest catch? ahem. i thought deadliest profession was alaskan crab fisherman? | |
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See 19 replies to this post | |
royhandy
Oderint dum metuant
join:2000-05-23
Dar al Harb
clubs: | The job those guys in the photo are doing? Do. Not. Want. | |
| | Doug135
join:2008-01-12
Laredo, TX
clubs: | Re: The job those guys in the photo are doing? Me either. Those guys in the pic and climb towers in general have my respect. I know I wouldn't do it, you have to be crazy or nuts or maybe both to climb up that far up and depend on your safety gear to hold you. No thanks. | |
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ftthz
If love can kill hate can also save
join:2005-10-17 | Re: The job those guys in the photo are doing? Can't pay me to do this job ... | |
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chucky5150
Divers do it Deeper
join:2001-11-03
New Iberia, LA
clubs: | There are lots of jobs where you have to have faith in your gear to get a job done.
Going into underwater welding, I have to depend on my gear just to breath. | |
| bradb007
join:2002-06-17
Frisco, TX | pic Yikes that picture is scary enough... | |
| | Lineage
join:2006-10-19
USA | Re: pic Terrifying indeed. I have a hard enough time climbing 36 foot ladders on the sides of a house (terrified of heights XD)
I tip my hat to these climbers. | |
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Toadman
How do you like these Apples
join:2001-11-28
Medina, OH | Yeah, a couple of years ago I posted this picture and there was a huge debate as to the authenticity of it or not. I wonder if that will start again. (by the way it is authentic!) | |
| Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL |  Great job for a Base Jumper.
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| | birhat
Premium
join:2005-04-08
Laurel, MD
edit:
April 26th, @03:51AM
| Re: Great job for a Base Jumper. except where they get arrested for base jumping | |
| RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Yesterday and today, and stupidity and greed I remember how we use to climb back in the 70's. A simple body harness with a single clip that we would wrap around something and clip back onto the lanyard or maybe onto something small enough for the clip ONCE we got up to the work spot. Today even amateurs have a much better body harness, two lanyards that are used as you climb, shock absorbers so you lessen the chance of breaking something, and other devices to help keep you safe. And on well built sites, anti-fall mechanisms on the ladder or access point.
Yet even with all the new toys for safety, built in safety points on towers, and training, you still have techs/engineers who want that extra two inches and defeat the safety to do it instead of correctly resetting everything. Yes it took seconds to do the job that way and minutes to do it correctly, but on a tall tower you could have a long time to regret it if you slip (and it probably would seem to take hours before you hit hit).
And on the greed side, without a strong oversight group, worn equipment is not replaced like it should, and while it is cheaper than paying death benefits (assuming the climbers get that) and doing the paperwork, many companies do not update the gear like they should because of the bottom line. And the private guy may be even worse since he uses it day in and day out and can not see the wear until it gets real bad.
And that goes for working in trees too, I heard that we lost a good friend of mine in Texas, fell out of a tree last week.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | -- Shivers --- Scary! This picture alone.... scares me!
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See 11 replies to this post | |
grydlok
join:2004-01-06
Richmond, VA | one time was enough for me The highest I ever climbed up a tower was 70feet. You have to wear a safety harness around your legs. Heavy Gloves and a heavy robes. | |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß | Re: one time was enough for me WTF tower are you climbing that you need "heavy robes", the Jeebus tower of god? | |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
| wierd statistic
does anyone know how these guys are dying, for real?
was it defeating safety, broken safety, lightning/weather, structure failure, what?
--
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: wierd statistic All of the recent rash of 5 deaths were from falling, but the precise details of how they fell don't seem to be reported.
All 5 *were* from falling tho, not weather, or electrocution, Radiation, collapse of structure etc | |
| | birdfeedr
Premium
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
edit:
April 25th, @06:22PM
| said by jig :was it defeating safety, broken safety, lightning/weather, structure failure, what? If towers are anything like other construction, the biggest cause of fatalities, hell, I'd call it 90% and still be conservative, is not following the standard precautions.
You have guys thinking they're saving time or money, you have companies thinking they're saving time or money, and sometimes you get away with it, so you think, that poor slob what happened to him, but it will never happen to me.
Even if the safety equipment broke, I'd bet they didn't inspect it properly before they put their life on the line.
After a fatality, everybody pays attention to the safety guy, but when things die down, most although not all, swear at him when he shows up. Oh jeez, what's wrong this time.
Trust me, although I haven't done climbing operations, I've seen quite a lot of other things. And I think what I've described is common. Face it, human beings take risks.
I investigated a recent construction fatality that could have been 100% prevented, if only the guys did what they were supposed to. Hell, if they did half of what they were supposed to.
So now a guy's dead at 51, leaving behind three kids, a son not sure his age, a daughter 21, and another daughter 14. He lost his wife last year, and now he's gone too.
It's quite a sobering moment. Nothing to joke about.
EDIT: After reading the link to WirelessEstimator, there's a lot of news items about accidents. It seems that weather and structural failure are hazards in and of themselves, so I'll back off my earlier estimate to 80%. | |
| | | cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA | Re: wierd statistic The most recent 3 were falling. Of course until the accident is investigated they won't comment (and maybe not even after that) but a lot of it is guys either moving around not clipped in or dismantling something they are tied on to. | |
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