 
Omega
Displaced Ohioan
Premium
join:2002-07-30
Santa Maria, CA
clubs:  | where to go? quote:
Where oh where will users flock to get NBC content now??
bittorrent | |
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texans20
Johama McBama 08
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs:
edit:
August 31st, @03:21PM
| Re: where to go? said by Omega  : quote:
Where oh where will users flock to get NBC content now??
bittorrent Usenet. | |
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| | ptomasi
Premium
join:2001-01-14
Hawthorne, NJ
| Be weary of using bittorrent to download any of NBC's crap, I recently rec'd an email after downloading a show I had accidently purged off my TIVO. Buried in the leter from NBC was we are going to take further legal action if you dont stop letter. They have alot of balls pulling that crap, for something they transmit freely over the air. F' them. Greedy F'n you know whats. | |
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supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL | NBC = Nothing But Crap! | |
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Thymadman
Mine Mine
join:2002-08-07
Brooklyn, NY | Greed Talk about Greedy. $5 for an episode, completely stupid and not worth it IMO
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| claco
join:2002-09-29
Tallmadge, OH | Re: Greed Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself.
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Six of one, 1,426/2,852 dozen of the other. | |
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kalphearion
In nomine Patri
Premium
join:2003-11-08
Denver, CO
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| Re: Greed said by claco :Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself. To some level I do agree with you. | |
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GoD of KaOs
Agent of KaOs
join:2001-01-29
Chatsworth, CA
| Re: Greed said by kalphearion :said by claco :Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself. To some level I do agree with you. Cable companies ask that same question when they negotiate a price to carry network channels. | |
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| | | | LeftOfSanity
join:2005-11-06
Felton, DE
| Re: Greed said by GoD of KaOs :said by kalphearion :said by claco :Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself. To some level I do agree with you. Cable companies ask that same question when they negotiate a price to carry network channels. Exactly. People bitch about price increases, yet they don't think about the content providers. They want a big piece of the action.
Think about it, they want 5 bucks for an Ipod version of 1 show. Imagine if services were Ala carte. | |
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anaon444
@swbell.net
| Re: Greed And YOU have figured out how to get this protected content off EVERY DVR in the world to a computer? What a Genious you are!
said by dualsub2006 :You don't have to pay anyone anything. DVR the stuff and then use your DVD recorder. Move it to your computer, chop the commercials, add some fades to make the transitions smooth and you have it done. NBC can sit and spin, I've been getting it for free for a very long time. | |
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| | | | smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home | Analog outputs on DVR's are not protected. | |
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| | | | apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA | said by anaon444 :
And YOU have figured out how to get this protected content off EVERY DVR in the world to a computer? What a Genious you are! Um...yeah...it's called the analog loophole. | |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Kansas City, MO
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Greed said by apollo80 :said by anaon444 :
And YOU have figured out how to get this protected content off EVERY DVR in the world to a computer? What a Genious you are! Um...yeah...it's called the analog loophole. Not exactly a "loophole" when 1080i content is downrezzed to 480i.. For those of us with HD, the above method is useless.
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|- The LP »www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml -|
|- Cato @ Liberty »www.cato-at-liberty.org -| | |
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| | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Pittsburgh, PA
| said by claco :Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself. Maybe for the same reason you can't walk into a store and walk out without paying for a DVD copy of some show you could have recorded yourself. | |
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| | | GunnarDanne
join:2002-12-02
Crown City, OH | Re: Greed Yeaaaa but when you do that, you steal the media it was copied to and the box. | |
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| | | tlcbob
join:2001-07-11
Harrisburg, PA | Hold on a second - it IS legal to record tv transmissions for personal use.... | |
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| | | | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: Greed said by tlcbob :Hold on a second - it IS legal to record tv transmissions for personal use.... Yes but the iTunes store is a commercial service so personal use doesn't apply. | |
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| | | | | tlcbob
join:2001-07-11
Harrisburg, PA | Re: Greed You need to read the first post in this thread - he was talking about DVR'ing the content from his settop box and saving it. This IS legal. Then another poster compared it to taking a dvd from a store - no comparison - that is illegal. | |
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| | | | | | | ross
join:2000-08-16
 ·Digizip
moderated:
September 1st, @08:01AM
| Re: Greed I don't have anything against a major network trying to double its profits by selling their own recordings of TV shows to people who missed the opportunity to record the original broadcast, as long as the network doesn't try to restrain the free distribution/sharing of similar recordings made by original contemporaneous audiences without charge to others for non-commercial enjoyment. The market, offset by file sharing, will act to rein in prices and keep things reasonable for those too lazy to have recorded the original broadcasts themselves, or to download from usenet, or via p2p.
However, in the case before us, NBC is seeking to double/treble its already doubled profits (made possible by the existence of outlets such as the iTunes store) by picking the pocket of the middleman. They are seeking to raise the wholesale cost/retail price beyond supportable limits; essentially asking Apple to pay over Apples existing margins, and forcing Apple to try and recoup the loss through pricing levels that can't be supported by the extent marketplace. At $1.99 (too high), the current price of NBC's offerings through iTunes exhausts the convenience factor. At $4.99, it's outrageous, simply price-gouging, and doomed to fail leaving Apple holding the bag.
It is one thing for NBC to price themselves out of the market, as that is their right, but quite another to ask Apple to subsidize their idiocy. | |
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| | | | Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
·SONIC.NET
edit:
August 31st, @10:10PM
| Re: Greed Ross,
what the other poster was saying is that you failed to consider that:
* You pay for cable
* You pay for television set
* You pay for DVD recorder
* You pay for DVD media
or
* You pay for DVR
or
* You pay for computer
* You pay for Internet connection
also, you pay for electricity, time spent doing the above, etc..
Those of us who discuss delivery prices talk about quality and quantity. Right now, the proposed $5 wouldn't have gotten enough quantity, and I posited that back when it was $2 minus one cent it had inferior quality due to lack of knowledge that it existed, but otherwise I bet iTunes might have had decent codecs that my system could handle (i.e., high res high bitrate XVID/something else as good), but I don't know. BT/USENET have half decent quantity and pretty darn good quality, but aren't always available (legally), however the prices are reasonable. But it always still costs money: whatever system you chose, you are paying for it. So, the question becomes what is the quality, quantity for that? Well, the quality of illegal is bad in itself. Besides and including that consideration, it is the quality and quantity we are discussing about NBC: if the quantity is 0 using their medium, it is insufficient for NBC to continue. If the quantity is one third of what it should be for the price paid, then it is overpriced, and insufficient in that regard, which is true of $5 per episode.
MBAs (which as a rule are always retarded in every way), and those discussing MBAs (because MBAs need all the guidance they can get), need to understand the basic fundamentals of what they're discussing to have any real progress that lasts to improve the MBAs' inevitably horrible offerings.
If a high quality show was offered for $1 to $2 per show (not 99 cents nor 99 cents plus 100 cents or anything dumb like that) using high quality codecs that my system could handle (I use it as a litmus test since it is a fast machine but not superfast so it is right where the dividing line can be), then it is reasonable. Double that price is unreasonable. $2 for a show that is not good is too much. $2 for a good show that has crappy codecs is too much. $2 for anything that I don't know about because they announced it only way way back when it was most likely just vaporware is irrelevent because I'll never buy it that way, and if I ever watch it, it will be via some other way. Not offering it at all of course doesn't conduct any business.
I use my full time minimum wage income (which is common for citizens these days due to government illegal alien employment encouragement and lack of controls for sending business to aliens) as the obvious measure for this stuff.
P.S., what shows did NBC offer? I never keep track of which old fasioned network is transmitting something, since I don't tune via those any more; I tune via other networks, and know very much about those. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by Sammer :Maybe for the same reason you can't walk into a store and walk out without paying for a DVD copy of some show you could have recorded yourself.  Not a valid comparison. With a DVD in a store, you have a tangible physical item, with an actual value. A program broadcast for free to the public should be available for downloading for free, or at best, a very very minimal charge to cover the costs of providing the download. For example a 1 Hour TV show should be 10 cents.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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fasfsdaf
@comcast.net | Then just record it yourself and don't buy it. You say that, and it sounds so simple, yet you complain about it so obviously you aren't doing it. | |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Kansas City, MO
clubs: | because the commercials are cut out. | |
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| Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
·SONIC.NET
edit:
August 31st, @11:51PM
| said by Thymadman :Talk about Greedy. $5 for an episode, completely stupid and not worth it IMO I didn't know episodes were available for $2 each. Too many MBAs involved: they announce a capability will be available soon, then get so mad at those of us who want to know when it is available that they never tell us that. I knew they would have it soon but never knew they actually had it. Anyway, $2 per episode is about the maximum reasonable price
, and if I had known they had it, I would have looked for things NBC sells that I might be interested in. Now, I won't, since they don't offer it, and $5 is exorbitant, not just because I say so, but simply because it cannot fit within my budget (as in it would make me homeless and die if I tried to pay for that garbage for $5 each 45 minutes).
Another thing that would help is if Apple stopped trying to piss me off by using obviously and blatantly deceptive pricing like "99 cents" in stead of $1, "1.99" instead of $2.
If iTunes announced something like this:
"We now have two years worth of over half of NBC's (ABC's, FOX's, etc.) programs available for download NOW using paypal or credit card for $2 each episode of 45 minutes or more ($1.50 for episodes 30 minutes or less)"
... then I would have been buying so much I would only be limited by my budget.
Edit: I am trying iTunes for the first time in my life right now. I couldn't find anything I wanted to watch (that's what makes Tivo method supposedly so great), so I chose an old episode I already watched, just to test everything. I was able to create the account (it takes paypal or credit card network based debit card), and it brought me back to the page where the BUY button for $2 minus a cent was again, I pressed it, confirmed yes, and the download began. It is "482.4MB" for a 44 minute episode (SG-1 10-3 The Pegasus Project), and claims it will take "3 hours" to download despite it coming what seems like a heck of a lot faster (Azureus is a LOT more accurate about ETA). It is limited by my blazingly fast up to 768kbps DSL inbound speed.
NOTE that I had to see this discussion thread to internalize that $199 wasn't TWO HUNDRED NINETY NINE DOLLARS. Psychologically "$2" is a LOT less than "$1.99".
I work as a cashier. These days most children don't get their change. There's a few reasons for this, but chief among them is revealed by what almost a third of them insist: "KEEP THE CHANGE!" What they mean is all that worthless clunky metal money that no longer adds up to anything useful fast enough (they want the paper money usually, although some of them even forgoe those pesky low value $1 bills). They say this for any amount: 99 cents, 1 cent, 75 cents -- usually much more than just 30 cents, often 60 cents and stuff, and they mean it. (Other reasons they don't get the change is they forget, but they forget not just because they're stupid but also because the force for them to remember isn't as great these days). So, cents are WORTHLESS. So, in a price, they and I only care about DOLLARS. So, when a price is "199", it looks like ONE HUNDRED NINETY NINE DOLLARS, not one dollar and ninety nine cents. MBAs are SO STUPID about continuing to put 99 cents in prices.
Edit 2: Apparently, I can start watching the show before it has finished downloading. That is great. However, there is a problem: I started watching it, and the quality sucks: (a) iTunes show has horrible movement artifacts that I never see in XVID versions of smaller sizes and lower bitrates! Big chunky movements! (b) It is extremely grainy -- how do they accomplish so much graininess? XVID shows are usually very sharp in comparison. Perhaps it is better than I know and I just don't see it yet, but it looks really bad compared to what I was used to. Perhaps my expectations were really high considering how much quality COULD be delivered with the iTunes model.
Using the iTunes model, getting Comcast makes more sense: I don't need as much outbound bandwidth, but obviously need more inbound. (I am already doingg a test install Monday to see how they are. I'll review it then.) I continued to watch the show, then when it ran into the download edge, I looked at its download statistics better. This is what I saw: quality still grainy (sandy), and movement badly represented, sound OK (not great) -- so far, worse than xvids from USENET/BT I've seen. I didn't check for subtitles or alternate languages yet to see if they have them. I haven't gotten to the action scenes yet (if there are any). The download information is too sparse: it only tells me ___._ "MB", not defining "MB", not telling me the current rate (which I calculated by timing it manually to be the maximum theoretical limit of my DSL connection as delivered (lots of overhead), not bad in itself), and it doesn't tell me how far it got in time. It also doesn't tell me the episode #. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| the BBC article also said NBC wanted to restrict use of their programs from being put onto Ipods. like apple will agree to that since Ipod is the company's baseline profit engine and the whole reason most use Itunes.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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NightVisor
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Rialto, CA | Wait-a-minute... NBC has content? | |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Hollywood, FL
clubs:
| Re: Wait-a-minute... said by NightVisor :NBC has content? Of course.. Just no one said it was good... 
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FWD#: 223611 | |
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Brazbit
Randomness Personified
Premium
join:2003-10-22
Port Orchard, WA
·wavebroadband
| Good for NBC Good for NBC. Apple should not be the one to set the price for what NBC's content is worth, that should be between NBC and the customer.
If NBC had increased the price and not enough users were willing to pay the price would have either come back down or NBC would have decided iTunes was not worth the investment and left anyway. If the market is not worth their time at $1.99 an episode then they did the right thing by leaving. Due to Apple's inflexibility they now have lost the provider of 40% of their video sales.
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My train of thought wasn't so much derailed as it was a simple case of the track not being fully laid out when the train arrived. | |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs: | Slow and Painful 4.99 is not market price. 1.99 is.
Are NBC and others trying to Fix the market?
Looks like I'm back to Usenet.
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Reach out and Tap someone! | |
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msmisfit
join:2004-09-13
Lawrenceville, GA
| Re: I don't get it... said by b10010011 : Here's a clue for you NBC. It's not the internet that is hurting your bottom line. It's the lack of decent programming.  Isn't that the truth?!! If I won't watch their network when it is FREE, why on earth would I PAY to watch it later, anywhere?
I love the earlier message which said, "NBC has CONTENT"? 
I consider this news laughable if that pricing is true. What have they had, one successful show in the past year? Do they think "Heroes" is going to carry them forever? | |
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| | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: I don't get it... said by msmisfit : Do they think "Heroes" is going to carry them forever? Heroes?
Never heard of it. | |
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| Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
·SONIC.NET
| I feel like I'm being swamped by both sides' ignorance, so I'm replying a lot. Sorry people. Here's another one:
said by b10010011 :Why should we have to pay for something that was aired on broadcast television? I do not have to pay to watch it on TV. FWIW, that isn't true: you pay for TV and any systems necessary to deal with ads (such as watching the ads, doing what the ads want you to do, or having equipment and methods used to skip ads).
I do not have to pay to watch it later on my Tivo. One of the major reasons I don't have Tivo is that it is so expensive (you are wrong again). The pricing model may be better with Tivo than other methods, though, so don't get me wrong: proper pricing is important.
Why should I have to pay to watch it on an I-Pod?
Just does not make sense? 
But really I can not remember the last time I watched a program on NBC. Maybe they are hurting for money. That's a pretty stupid way to get more money if they are the manufacturers, but perhaps the real manufacturers of the content had different pricing for iTunes vs no iTunes available, so it might not have been NBC.
Here's a clue for you NBC. It's not the internet that is hurting your bottom line. It's the lack of decent programming. | |
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| | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
edit:
September 1st, @01:34AM
| Re: I don't get it... I would rather watch ads than pay for ad free TV. I can get up and go pee, get something to eat, or what ever. So it is a very small price to pay.
I paid $7 for my Tivo at a Goodwill It is lifetime subscribed so I do not have to pay Tivo a dime to use it.
I would rather have the I-pod version come commercials enact for free.
No "might" about it decent programming is everything. A show that sucks on TV is still going to suck when you pay 1.99 or 4.99 to watch it on an I-Pod. | |
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FiL
Premium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD | Re: Can't imagine.... They are providing thier programs without commercials and such; labor costs would easily jack that price up to that point.
On a side note, love you sig. links Luna. Very, umm, fairly balanced. :| | |
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| | dualsub2006
join:2007-07-18
Newport, KY | Re: Can't imagine.... Are you serious? What labor costs? The content is filmed without the commercials. What labor is involved that would make $1.99 per episode a loss? | |
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steelyken
join:2002-03-04
Plainfield, IN | Was It Apple Or NBC? Is this story right? I read on another website it was Apple who pulled the plug on their contract early (set to expire in December), not NBC-Universal. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Was It Apple Or NBC? said by steelyken :Is this story right? I read on another website it was Apple who pulled the plug on their contract early (set to expire in December), not NBC-Universal. NBC pulled out of negotiations to renew when the current contract expires on 12/31/2007. Apple got pissed and said they won't offer anything starting right away - so take that NBC.
Of course, they both could come to an agreement anyway after they poll the reactions of those that were buying the NBC shows.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | NBC stands for......... NBC = "Nothing But Crap
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Remember safe sex does not prevent crabs. | |
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| | yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | Re: Was It Apple Or NBC? Apple says because they don't want the contract to expire in after the tv season has started which is a good idea. It'd be dumb if you could buy the shows up until the end of Dec. but then you couldn't because NBC doesn't post any more. | |
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| | | Daarken
PoE2 Dev
join:2005-01-12
Lake Charles, LA | Re: Was It Apple Or NBC? From gizmodo, apple is said to have shitcanned NBC because NBC wanted to increase the charge to $4.99 a show. | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| Not fair Lets say the average season has 20 episodes.
When the dvd comes they sell the whole season on average for nearly 50 dollars.
Depending on the amount of episodes we were getting a deal or ripped off.
To charge 5 dollars per episode is completely out of line of what they charge for dvd plus I already paid to watch it through cablevision.
Now I guess we'll see NBC offered in some windows media crap format only.
Content creators cry "Why do people steal from us" we'll buddy it's because you pull crap like this and rip people off. Charge a fair price and people will pay it. Try to rip them off or force them to conform to some crazy playback standard and they will walk away.
Look at DVD it is a smashing success. The HD formats are a complete flop because of format wars, charging twice in the case of blu-ray, and charging a premium because it's in HD?
Please get real, the movie was filmed in HD, there's no reason a movie needs to cost 10 dollars more per disc other than to line someone's pockets.
Next I guess NBC will tell cable operators they can not allow Tivo's on their networks too.
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Mac Chatter
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brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Not fair It makes sense when both companies making billions why not just do any buisness any more. by the way they both greedy. | |
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old_wiz_60
join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Not just money NBC wants not only more money, but MORE DRM. They want to stop the practice of allowing the video to be viewed on more than one machine in a network. They not only don't approve of Apple's prices, but the DRM as well. I use a DVR and then copy the episodes to DVD-R. I don't make copies for anyone else. | |
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evilt00l
join:2003-03-20
Rock/Hardpla
clubs:
 ·magicjack.com
edit:
August 31st, @09:46PM
| iTunes is the one choosing not providing content! Per the articles I've ready NBC did not pull their shows off of iTunes... yet. The contract is up in December which is in the middle of the season so APPLE decided not to show this seasons episodes (until Dec). However Apple will continue to offer past episodes until the contract is up in December.
"The network's iTunes contract expires in December, but since that falls in the middle of the TV season, Apple opted to stop offering new episodes when the season starts in a few weeks.
Episodes of NBC shows already on the download service will be available until the contract runs out."
Stolen from Zap2it.com | |
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Daarken
PoE2 Dev
join:2005-01-12
Lake Charles, LA | Did Apple really gave NBC the boot? Gizmodo is running a story that Apple gave NBC the boot, because NBC wanted $4.99 a show.
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www.pointofexistence.com | |
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NBC Content Pulled From iTunes
Bye Bye Battlestar Gallactica