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 |   dadkins Go For It Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Roll It Out Faster! ...and for the people in areas not scheduled for FiOS deployment... screw them?
Yeah, let all the Verizon DSL customers' lines get worse and worse... no need to maintain the copper for all those customers, right?
It's ok though! The few outweigh the many... wait...  -- Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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 |  |   Lumberjack Premium join:2003-01-18 Newport News, VA
·Cox HSI
| Re: Roll It Out Faster! said by dadkins :...and for the people in areas not scheduled for FiOS deployment... screw them? Yeah, let all the Verizon DSL customers' lines get worse and worse... no need to maintain the copper for all those customers, right? It's ok though! The few outweigh the many... wait... You know what I could care less about existing DSL customers. Verizon just laid FiOS in my area because I couldn't even get DSL. So as far as I'm concerned no service has greater importance than old service.
Perhaps they shouldn't abandon things out right but at the same time I don't feel abandond anymore now that I can get something in competition with Cox here (besides lame sat. service). -- »www.fairtax.org | |
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 |  |   dadkins Go For It Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA | Re: Roll It Out Faster! Where was that... New Hampshire? Where Verizon just plain sold their DSL customers out?
Don't want to maintain the copper... sell it! -- Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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 |  |  |  Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Roll It Out Faster! said by dadkins :Don't want to maintain the copper... sell it! Tell that to the union's who won't let them. (Again a Fairpoint example) | |
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 |   stomp357
join:2003-04-13 Lake Charles, LA | If your in a city that will never get fiber deployment? | |
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  cableties Premium join:2005-01-27 Levittown, PA
| WW2 wires... From my experience, much the pole-mounted punchboxes and trunks (in my old neighborhood) date back to the late 40's and 50's. The trunk has seen its day: cracks, fatigue, oxidation...who would want to replace the copper with more? I wonder how many households do not have a cellphone? So, what is the point of maintenance when you will eventually replace the mains with glass? (One of my techs, er I mean Verizon techs, would come out every spring and fall to repunch the noisey lines. That has to cost ALOT...in labor alone...) | |
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 |   tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09 Saint Clair Shores, MI
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
edit: June 11th, @01:03PM
| Re: WW2 wires... said by cableties :I wonder how many households do not have a cellphone? So, what is the point of maintenance when you will eventually replace the mains with glass? (One of my techs, er I mean Verizon techs, would come out every spring and fall to repunch the noisey lines. That has to cost ALOT...in labor alone...) Here we go again, someone who thinks cell phones are the answer to everything. I can't wait till the first fiber cut that shuts down a large area of VZ's network for a few hours. Including TV.. OH MY GOD! What do we do now? Wait, we can call aunt milly and.. oh darn, that vz cell isn't working because the lone cell site that covered our area is dead due to the fiber that carried that call from the pop site to the CO has gone dark.. Now what? CALL SAM on the nations most reliable network!!!  | |
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 |   KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by cableties :From my experience, much the pole-mounted punchboxes and trunks (in my old neighborhood) date back to the late 40's and 50's. The trunk has seen its day: cracks, fatigue, oxidation...who would want to replace the copper with more? Understandable, but not really the point. The point is that they have regular customers who have POTS and DSL services on that existing infrastructure, and in areas where they have not begun installing FIOS. By refusing to maintain the infrastructure, these people are in effect abandoned... But I'm sure they are still being billed. As the line conditions worsen, the DSL service degrades and becomes slow and eventually not-sustainable. And let's not even think about dial-up over noisy lines---- uggghhh
There's nothing wrong with deploying FIOS, but you need to keep your existing infrastructure in decent shape until you've replaced it. Then retire it. Not before! -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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 |  Skippy25
join:2000-09-13 Hazelwood, MO | Re: Says a group who stands to make money I would agree, but you can take the customer's word.
"Customer complaints in West Virginia have soared 60% since 2001." | |
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 |  |   ColorBASIC 8-bit Fun Premium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit: June 11th, @10:44AM
| Re: Says a group who stands to make money Since 2001...the number of customers could have increased 60% since 2001. If I have 100 customers in 2001 and 150 in 2007, I would expect, if everything is the same to have a 50% increase in the number of complaints because I have a 50% increase in the number of customers.
The question would be has the rate of complaints PER SUBSCRIBER (or per 1000 subscribers) changed appreciably since 2001. -- Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire | |
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 |  |  |   morbo Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22 00000 clubs: | Re: Says a group who stands to make money good point, but chances are their voice customers have DECREASED (say from 100 to 75). so reverse your point and that's the situation.
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 |  |  |  |   ColorBASIC 8-bit Fun Premium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA edit: June 11th, @11:14AM
| Re: Says a group who stands to make money True...who knows what the real story is. But I'm sure I'm not going to get it from the telco or their union. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   morbo Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22 00000 clubs: | Re: Says a group who stands to make money ok, but you are also willing to ignore or discount west virginia's complaints? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   ColorBASIC 8-bit Fun Premium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA edit: June 11th, @11:50AM
| Re: Says a group who stands to make money As I see it from the VZ forums, complaints are nothing new...meaning I don't see any evidence that VZ is purposely letting copper go to hell to get people to get FTTH or any other purpose. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   ColorBASIC 8-bit Fun Premium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA | Re: Says a group who stands to make money They could be trying to make MORE work for them (them being the union). | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  Whome
join:2005-10-10 Newbury Park, CA
| Here is the REAL story, Verizon is not spending money on copper plant, unless the repair or addition is absolutely necessary or mandated, Period. Wirelines are a shrinking business and they will not invest in a shrinking business, so what I read in the article is true. All spending is going towards FiOs, any area that will not turn a profit with FiOS will be sold off. This is a calculated business decision. Wall street is looking at their stock and that mean FiOS. | |
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 |  |  |   KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by ColorBASIC :If I have 100 customers in 2001 and 150 in 2007, I would expect, if everything is the same to have a 50% increase in the number of complaints because I have a 50% increase in the number of customers. Heh, but your company would really have to be screwing up royally to have 100% of every new customer complaining, don't you think?
If you gained 10,000 customers and also had 10,000 complaints I don't think that's much to be proud of.
I'm sure the CWA is concerned about its members being laid off because of the lack of work caused by Verizon refusing to maintain the infrastructure, and rightly so.... but the customers don't have any vested interest, and they seem to be saying "Things are going to hell here with Verizon"  -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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 |  |  |  |   ColorBASIC 8-bit Fun Premium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit: June 11th, @01:26PM
| Re: Says a group who stands to make money No, percentage increase. If you have 1/3 of the people complaining at 100 customers (33) and 1/3 of the people complaining at 150 customers (50), that isn't 100% of the increase complaining.
Other than CWA claims, I'm not seeing any evidence that Verizon is "refusing" to maintain their copper. -- Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   morbo Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22 00000 clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest
edit: June 11th, @01:44PM
| Re: Says a group who stands to make money said by ColorBASIC :No, percentage increase. If you have 1/3 of the people complaining at 100 customers (33) and 1/3 of the people complaining at 150 customers (50), that isn't 100% of the increase complaining. Other than CWA claims, I'm not seeing any evidence that Verizon is "refusing" to maintain their copper. fact: wire line subscriptions for telcos are down. fact: west virginia noted 60% increase in complaints.
math: 60% increase in complaints = 60% more complaints now. it's not that difficult to connect the dots unless you have motivation not to. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   ColorBASIC 8-bit Fun Premium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit: June 11th, @02:03PM
| Re: Says a group who stands to make money I looked at the article, where are you getting 60% increase in complaints from. I missed it. But I'm a bit distracted listening to the WWDC keynote and didn't reread the article word-for-word.
I also missed in the article where wire line subscriptions are down. I've seen general articles about POTS losses but I've seen general articles about massive DSL adds. I'm also not seeing what the general type of complaint is (bad POTS service vs bad DSL service, vs customer service vs billing, vs missed appointments).
I'm not doubting that telco service sucks, which is why I'm with Time Warner and not Verizon FiOS...but I am just not connecting the dots between what is claimed in the article and Verizon refusing to maintain copper.
Seems they/you are drawing a conclusion (the "refusals") that isn't the only explanation for the complaints; meaning those dots there are pretty far apart.
All I'm seeing is the union worker claims...not of which substantiated by a source that doesn't stand to make some money either way. -- Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  Dolgan Premium join:2005-10-01 Sun Prairie, WI | Re: Says a group who stands to make money Not our fault that you have no clue as to what is happening with Verizon Copper Plant. Maybe if you took off your anti-Union goggles you might actually see this as the customer service issue it actually is. | |
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 |  |  |   ghopper
join:2004-06-28 Everett, WA
·Comcast
| If you had an increase from 100 to 150, you would have a 67% increase, not 50. This isn't a statistics class so I'll spare details, but if you saw a 67% increase (or 50% increase), statistically you actually have a greater problem since the bell curve will govern the rate of customer complaints.
You are right that the meaningful number is a compairson of the rates (per 1000 customers or what ever metric you want to use) not overall complaints. | |
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 |  |  |  |   ColorBASIC 8-bit Fun Premium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA edit: June 12th, @12:05PM
| Re: Says a group who stands to make money No, 100 to 150 is a 50% increase.
150 - 100 = 50
100 / 50 = .5
.5 = 50%
or
100 + (50% * 100) = 150
100 + 50 = 150 | |
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 |   Cabal Premium join:2007-01-21 Boston, MA
| Re: This makes me Comcast doesn't offer 4/384 on new/moved accounts anymore. The cheapest package is 6/384 with Powerboost down and (probably) up. -- Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru? | |
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 |  |  xrobertcmx Premium join:2001-06-18 Sterling, VA clubs:  | Re: This makes me That is odd, I just called yesterday about it. $44.95 for max speed of 4/384. Next was the 6/384. -- Retaking our country one election at a time. | |
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  Paladin Sage of the light
join:2001-08-17 Chester, IL
·New Wave Communica..
| What about Rural areas? I'd say Illinois is one of the few states where I have heard NOTHING of FIOS deployment. It may be time to call 140 West St. and find out a good explanation of what the heck is going on. I'm wondering if we aren't going to be a sell off in the Verizon territory in far southern Illinois. In that case, we should build our own municipal fiber optic network and be done with it. -- First rule of fiber optics: you do not talk about fiber optics! | |
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 |  See 7 replies to this post |
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  Subaru 1-3-2-4 Premium join:2001-05-31 Greenwich, CT clubs: | I'm in a FIOS area.. Had Fios installed for my aunt then I moved and no Fios but crappy copper.. but now my 1 year is up with Verizon and it's time to switch.. I can't take the random disconnects or craptastic speeds not able to go over 50kb/s | |
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 |   Julio Bachatero y Que? Premium join:2003-03-19 Brooklyn, NY clubs: | Re: I'm in a FIOS area.. Do you need a room mate? | |
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 |  |  jester121
join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL | Re: I'm in a FIOS area.. Screw that -- does your aunt need a roommate? She's the one who already has the fiber. | |
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 |  |  |   Julio Bachatero y Que? Premium join:2003-03-19 Brooklyn, NY clubs:
| Re: I'm in a FIOS area.. said by jester121 :Screw that -- does your aunt need a roommate? She's the one who already has the fiber. lol good point. -- Join the BBR MLB 2K7 League The internet is a series of tubes.. | |
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 |  Dexter9999
join:2002-12-11 Somerville, NJ
| Re: Shocking? I put up with an noise on my line for 2 months while waiting for the Verizon underground crew to come replace my cooper that had gone bad. Lots of promises to call me back and give me an idea when they would come, but never got any information. FIOS not available for another year in my neighborhood, so now I have phone service through my cable company. | |
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 tmc8080
join:2004-04-24 Floral Park, NY | Opportunity for cablecos! This is an opportunity for cable companies to fill the void! Once customers get addicted to NOT paying the slurry of taxes, fees and surcharges for POTS copper phone lines they'll never go back! Probably not even for FIOS! | |
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 |   brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07 Brooklyn, NY | Its true I could tell when i get an outage every month or every other month they forget to get me back when they do there upgrades. | |
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 ElJay
join:2004-03-17 South Portland, ME | I thought Verizon was the best thing since sliced bread? ...Or at least that's what the unions up here in New England are telling us in regards to the Fairpoint sale. | |
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 penawab2007
join:2007-03-28 Old Town, ME
·Verizon Online DSL
| No problem in the lobstah state! What is all the hub-bub? Here in Maine, where we have state of the art lines in every town and back bush, Verizon has kept the phone lines in tip-top shape and t6he DSL is the best. Now a fine company called Fairpoint is coming in and we're all excited, looking forward to that same reliable service, for many years to come. We don't even know what FIOS stands for, and don't even want it. I guess we're the exception, from what I've read.
*snicker* | |
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 blazecom
join:2005-12-05 Columbia, MO | Gotta love the big boys see the problem is that we will always need copper, but they fail to see that within the next 50 years not everything will be fiber... so sad that a company this big has a closed mind.... NEVERMIND THEY ALL DO! | |
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 bogey780
join:2004-03-19 Covington, LA | So... Uverse isn't looking that bad now, is it? | |
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 |  Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: So... said by bogey780 :Uverse isn't looking that bad now, is it? Uverse was never looking bad NOW.. It's looking bad in 5 years.. 
Fortunately they should be able to leverage it into full FTTH, at least from what I've heard. | |
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 |  |  bogey780
join:2004-03-19 Covington, LA | FTTC FTW...
Seriously... VDSL2 is great. Has the bandwidth of FiOS with all the benefits of FTTN. | |
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  Rob A Same Old Jets Premium join:2005-01-17 Pompton Plains, NJ | Please bring me fiber! So many TV and Radio commercials for Fios, yet still no fios here! | |
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 |  tmc8080
join:2004-04-24 Floral Park, NY
| Re: Please bring me fiber! said by Rob A :So many TV and Radio commercials for Fios, yet still no fios here! Tell me about it! Verizon's Fios deployment travels in the the low trucking gears slow, slower, and REALLY F---king SLOW!!!
Fortunately my town is a picked cherry! Doesn't mean that if Verizon pisses me off to no end that I wouldn't jump ship for the cable company!! | |
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 |  |  DemonChicken
join:2006-10-15 Boon, MI | Re: Please bring me fiber! Good thing i dont have DSL or fiber.
I bet ill get at least 3 MOVE YOU RETARD replies.
I cant move. And im pissed. | |
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  cmcgilton
join:2001-03-14 Stow, OH | Isn't Just Verizon - The Same Situation Exists With Others This isn't just a problem with Verizon, it's a problem with many ILEC's. | |
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 rody_44 Premium join:2004-02-20 Quakertown, PA | oh well and here i didnt think verizon actually ever really maintained the lines/ | |
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