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story category FiOS Blew Up My Garage
Continuing stories of fiber digging mishaps
(old news - 06:24PM Thursday May 17 2007)
You can't make a $23 billion fiber optic omelet without breaking some eggs, and Verizon's FiOS installation was rather sunny side up a few years ago. Subcontractors in Florida particularly, usually dealing with inaccurate city maps, were busting so many sewer and gas lines while burying fiber, Verizon had to stop deployment, overhaul their deployment procedures and skip some neighborhoods entirely.

Last February local Florida news outlets in Sarasota County said the mistakes were getting better, but there were still issues. "To put the damage to sewer and water lines into perspective, excavation usually leads to about 10 cut sewer and water lines in a four-month period. Verizon has cut 19 times that many since Oct. 1," complained the Herald Tribune.

While Verizon is doing a much better job -- especially considering the scale of the project -- there's still some mishaps occurring.

One user e-mails us: "Verizon hired a 3rd party company who, in turn, hired a 3rd party company to install FIBER Cabling throughout Tampa, Florida. While in our neighborhood of Lutz, FL, they managed to create an arc which resulted in setting one house on fire (the entire garage was burned before the fire dept extinguished the flames) and two water-main pipes breaking."

Sometimes decent bandwidth comes at a price. Like say your azaleas.

Forums » FiOS Blew Up My Garage
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brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL

WOW

Kaboom! Hope you got FIOS insurance. lol

McLovin
Chicka chicka yeah
Premium
join:2005-06-12
Fairbanks, AK
clubs:
·GCI.net
·PTIAlaska.NET

Re: WOW

said by brianiscool See Profile :

Kaboom! Hope you got FIOS insurance. lol
I would be more for Comcast insurance.
attcssguy

join:2006-03-07
Redford, MI
In MIchigan we have a system setup called MISS DIG. It's an 800 number, so it's free. Just call 3 days before you have to dig. All utilities have to respond with in that time.

dispatcher21

join:2004-01-22
united state

Re: WOW

Doesnt help if the utilities mis label the area or have maps they go off of that are incorrect.

Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs:

Re: WOW

said by dispatcher21 See Profile :

Doesnt help if the utilities mis label the area or have maps they go off of that are incorrect.
And from my understanding, that is the issue Verizon has been facing. It's not that they (and their contractors) are ignoring the plans, its that the plans are wrong.
--
Intel Quad Core QX6700 @3500Mhz/Asus P5N32-E SLI/4x 1024Mb Corsair/WD 74Gb Raptor/PNY 7800GTs SLI/Antec 550 True Control/Custom water cooler

ninjatutle
Premium

join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

Non legals

This is what happens when you subcontract the work out. You never know who they have on board. They're usually guys who would work for pennies and never did finish grade school.

Same with the new tracks homes being built. The craftsmanship is just not there anymore.

magicjimmy

join:2006-03-23
Tucson, AZ

Re: Non legals

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

...They're usually guys who would work for pennies and never did finish grade school. ...

Same with the new tracks homes being built. The craftsmanship is just not there anymore.
ummm... Don't you mean TRACT homes?

birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS

Re: Non legals

said by magicjimmy See Profile :

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

...They're usually guys who would work for pennies and never did finish grade school. ...

Same with the new tracks homes being built. The craftsmanship is just not there anymore.
ummm... Don't you mean TRACT homes?
No, he had it right. It's the latest variant on mobile homes. With the track housing, when you want to move to a new neighborhood, you can be the first one in, even before the roads are built.

It's the hot new thing among economic bigots. Buy expensive, poorly made crap, then blame it on cheap labor. Take off the skirts on your track housing, roll it up into the hills to get away from society's nonsense. As a community, talk themselves into even further isolation. They all end up in the mountains grumbling among themselves how things just aren't the way they used to be, ain't it a shame.

ninjatutle
Premium

join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA
Sorry, no speak english

ftthz
If love can kill hate can also save

join:2005-10-17

following in the steps of comcast

... those pesky contractors
robertfl
Premium
join:2005-10-10
Mary Esther, FL
·Cox VOIP

They should be bonded and insured

Just as my subject said they should be bonded and insured for shit like this. Clearly, this is pure stupidity. Our society is dumbing down and we will see more bull crap like this. Now to error is to be human but this should have been prevented by PLANNING ahead.

Rob
RJ44

join:2001-10-19
Nashville, TN

Re: They should be bonded and insured

said by robertfl See Profile :

Just as my subject said they should be bonded and insured for shit like this.

No doubt they are, no one would hire a contractor who wasn't.

said by robertfl See Profile :

Now to error is to be human but this should have been prevented by PLANNING ahead.

Rob
How does planning ahead help when the pipes aren't where they're shown on the plat?

Lil Jon
Premium
join:2006-06-26
Lawrenceville, GA

Re: They should be bonded and insured

lol @ everyone hatin on Verizon. it isn't even their fault.

Wills

join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL

Re: They should be bonded and insured

Nope, this isn't Verizon's fault. Nor is it the fault of any contractors.

This is a big problem in Florida, especially Southwest Florida. It doesn't matter how many numbers you call before you dig they are going to mark them wrong. The maps are wrong, the labels on things are wrong, and if they send someone out with a metal detector, he'll screw it up.

You can't do any kind of digging in Florida without putting a hole in something important.

Chaoswar
Premium
join:2002-09-23
Northlake IL
Maybe they could get a ground scan done before they excavate? I can't imagine that being more expensive than fixing the damage afterwards.... Or loss of life re: house fires...

AMDUSER
Premium
join:2003-05-28
Earth
clubs:

Re: They should be bonded and insured

Generally they have the utility marking service come out and mark where the gas, electric etc is located.
..However, it would not be too surprising if it was not marked due to old outdated maps.

Arctic nut

join:2006-11-26
Thief River Falls, MN
·HughesNet Satellit..
·Alltel Axess

said by Chaoswar See Profile :

Maybe they could get a ground scan done before they excavate? I can't imagine that being more expensive than fixing the damage afterwards.... Or loss of life re: house fires...
They likely do get underground utilities located. In most places it's the law. The problem can be the locating crews who don't always do an accurate job of marking the correct location. I have first hand knowledge of what happens when things are not marked correctly. I still have the backhoe bucket with the 8" hole in it from hitting a 12.5KV cable that was 60 feet from where it was marked as being. While the power company was sorry, it took countless letters and the filing of a suit to get reimbursed for replacement of my fried bucket and a backhoe check over. Had I not followed the law and dug blind, I would have been liable for replacement of the cable and lost revenue. The lost revenue alone would have been steep since I cut power to nearly 200 customers in August. Only a total idiot would not call for locates. Not to mention, the contractor's insurance would likely be cancelled in a flash for being so negligent.
RJ44

join:2001-10-19
Nashville, TN

said by Chaoswar See Profile :

Maybe they could get a ground scan done before they excavate?
What, exactly, is a ground scan?

Tursiops_G
Technoid
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-06
Norwalk, CT
clubs:
·Optimum Online

Re: They should be bonded and insured

said by Chaoswar See Profile :

What, exactly, is a ground scan?
Checking for the presence of buried utilities with ground-penetrating radar (more effective than using a plain Metal Detector)

»www.geomodel.com/

-Tursiops_G.
--
If You're Unsure, "RTFM"... If You're SURE, "RTFM" Anyway.
RJ44

join:2001-10-19
Nashville, TN

Re: They should be bonded and insured

said by Tursiops_G See Profile :

said by Chaoswar See Profile :

What, exactly, is a ground scan?
Checking for the presence of buried utilities with ground-penetrating radar (more effective than using a plain Metal Detector)

»www.geomodel.com/

-Tursiops_G.
I see, that's great stuff. Somehow though, I expect it costs just a bit more than they're paying for locations today.

BTW, that was me who asked, the quote got mixed up.

Tursiops_G
Technoid
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-06
Norwalk, CT
clubs:

Re: They should be bonded and insured

Oops, Sorry...

-Tursiops_G.
Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL

said by RJ44 See Profile :

I see, that's great stuff. Somehow though, I expect it costs just a bit more than they're paying for locations today.
Even if ground-penetrating RADAR is too costly for now, an amped-up version of a plain ol' metal detector can be used. I say "amped-up" because the utilities should have a much better idea of what they're looking for. Therefore their equipment can be optimized to find the specific metals (Cu, Fe, Pb), and at greater depths.
Claybraker

join:2002-04-13
none

Re: They should be bonded and insured

said by Time4aNAP See Profile :

said by RJ44 See Profile :

I see, that's great stuff. Somehow though, I expect it costs just a bit more than they're paying for locations today.
Even if ground-penetrating RADAR is too costly for now, an amped-up version of a plain ol' metal detector can be used. I say "amped-up" because the utilities should have a much better idea of what they're looking for. Therefore their equipment can be optimized to find the specific metals (Cu, Fe, Pb), and at greater depths.
Finding metals underground isn't a problem. Figuring out which of the underground cables is live, and which are abandoned is.

burgermeister
All Computers Are Junk

join:2000-10-23
Utica, MI

Well I don't know about you...

but if I spent $23 billion on anything, I'd expect AT LEAST one good explosion!
--
"I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm."

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

Re: Well I don't know about you...

No kidding. Jim Cameron needs to be put in charge. He can blow up way more crap and do it for about $100-$200M.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:

No surprise they mention FL...

Cable lines, phone lines, anything that can be cut down there does. Every month I would have a long term ISP outage due to something being dug up.

MrMoody
Carbon Based Lifeform

join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC

Next

FiOS ate my baby!!

index1489
Premium
join:2004-03-12
Chino, CA
clubs:

1 edit

Re: Next

I just used the line today, you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs and now I come here and read this haha

ShootToThril
Tell The Truth
Premium
join:2004-06-07
Sherman Oaks, CA
clubs:

The New ad for Verizon Fios

Verizon FIOS, It's so fast your house will burn down. Mobile home owners beware, you might just fly out to space.

Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online

Re: The New ad for Verizon Fios

said by ShootToThril See Profile :

Verizon FIOS, It's so fast your house will burn down. Mobile home owners beware, you might just fly out to space.
Yeah, FIOS is damn hot!

-Tzale

Lumberjack
Premium
join:2003-01-18
Newport News, VA

Mexicans do good work

They had the Mexicans out around my neighborhood. They did a really good job given the complex nature of what they were doing. Most of it was hand dug work and as far as I know there haven't been any problems reported.

The work here was done a few weeks ago so hopefully it will be available soon.

CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12

Hilarious Double Standard.

I think its awesome that when its cable that does it by contractor they are evil and stupid and negligent.. However when the second coming that is VZ FIOS does it, more then anyone apparently, the article is peppered with "Hey, no biggie, it happens. "

quote:
You can't make a $23 billion fiber optic omelet without breaking some eggs..

quote:
usually dealing with inaccurate city maps..

quote:
Sarasota County said the mistakes were getting better, but there were still issues. "To put the damage to sewer and water lines into perspective, excavation usually leads to about 10 cut sewer and water lines in a four-month period. Verizon has cut 19 times that many since Oct. 1,"[/quote[
Mistakes are getting better but they are 19x the norm? Thats better?
quote:
While Verizon is doing a much better job -- especially considering the scale of the project -- there's still some mishaps occurring.
They are doing a better job considering the scale? What does that even mean? They are building out plant. Everyone does it, not everyone does it at 19x the damages.

quote:
Sometimes decent bandwidth comes at a price.
Yeah, god bless em!
Haha, even the comments are forgiving and "Ah Well.." "Those pesky contractors!"

Im all for "shit happens" but next time cable comes into an unfortunate mishap, which most likely will include some of the same contractors, lets spread a little of that forgiveness gravy around. Or at the very least keep the reporting SLIGHTLY unbiased...

Always good for a laugh! Thanks all!!!
--
CableFAQ.org/Technicians Unplugged

See 9 replies to this post
Tigerpaw509
Premium
join:2006-07-15
Huntley, IL

Get what you pay for

Its not bad maps its $10 hr contractors.Ofcourse the owners of these companys rake in millions.

ryan howard

@verizon.net

Verizon cut the streetlight power lines

3 lights in a row go out. I call township to find out Verizon cut the streetlight power lines when they were putting the orange conduit in the streets. I'm in Warrington, PA.
raythompsontn

join:2001-01-11
Oliver Springs, TN

It's Bad Maps, Bad Locators

Just this morning at work I am the victim of phone lines being cut due to construction. The locations were marked by the phone company. Problem was they marked abandoned lines instead thinking they were the real lines.

It happens. If you have had the utility mark the lines, you clearly dug outside of the marks, then you are not responsible for the problem. Dig in marked areas, or don't ask for location before digging, the bills can get quite large.
vaio338168

join:2005-09-22
Aston, PA

fios cracked my drive way

this past monday, verizon contractor came to my front lawn, and started digging my lawn, trying to fish the conduit under my drive way, and they managed to put hairline crack on the surface of my newly blacktop sealed driveway all the way through.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY

bad things happen in Florida

Progress is tough business, especially with $3.13+ gasoline..
Timmn

join:2000-04-23
Tinley Park, IL

Re: bad things happen in Florida

It's $3.55 here.
sd70mac666

join:2003-06-05
Saint Albans, VT

Re: bad things happen in Florida

2.99 here in Northern VT, but more expensive as you move south

FastiBook

join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

Yea, the 4th party contracting needs to stop...

But i can say my town's FIOS deployment has cone smooth as silk, no issues at all except the people next door to whoever was getting it installed wondering what the f was going on and how they could get it too.
Forums » FiOS Blew Up My Garage


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