 
Toadman
How do you like these Apples
join:2001-11-28
Medina, OH | Useless anyways! The lack of support by both vendors and Cable operators have rendered cablecards useless. Why have one when the rental box costs the same? | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Useless anyways! Because the Series 3 TiVo beats the stuffing out of most cable provided DVRs? | |
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fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY
| Re: Useless anyways! Except i really don't want to spend $799 on a TiVo.
And then have to rent two CableCards.
My SA 8300HD does just fine...i can record two HD shows and watch a third previously recorded (or one of the recordings live), for under $10 a month.
My reason for wanting TiVo back in the day was to install a NIC and rip quality recordings off of the TiVo's HD. With the 8300HD and FireWire - I can do that now. | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Netcong, NJ
| Re: Useless anyways! said by fcisler  :My reason for wanting TiVo back in the day was to install a NIC and rip quality recordings off of the TiVo's HD. With the 8300HD and FireWire - I can do that now. Does that apply to encrypted content as well? Or does one have to "hack" the box like the old Tivos? | |
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fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY | Re: Useless anyways! 5C encrypted content will not stream - but I have not come across anything 5C in the shows I watch yet. | |
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join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Useless anyways! And when it start you be the first to complain about it.
How about the fact I love my mythtv box that has dual hd tuners in it. It would be nice to be able to get cable cards for my box so I can record more then the 2 channels available on my cable box.
Right now I record my locals from OTA, I would like to be able to use my myth box more as a whole house system , which killing cable cards will hurt.
This is why I am waiting on our own cable boxes with the downloadable conditional access system. I know there will be more people like myself who want more options whether it be a computer or a set top box.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY
| Re: Useless anyways! said by BosstonesOwn :And when it start you be the first to complain about it. Absolutely not a single clue what you meant there.
All I was comparing was the fact that I DO NOT want to spend $599+ (whatever), when my DVR is around $10 a month - and if something BETTER comes out - i trade it up.
I also have a media center PC at home. The lack of true HD capturing (i know, the technical limits of capturing uncompressed HD video) makes me stick also with a DVR. Once i've recorded the shows, i can them play them back and capture then in all their HD beauty to my MCE.
Now once someone figures out how to use the firewire instead of the tuner to actually VIEW the program material (currently viewing is done via the tuner card in MCE, and when you record it uses the firewire) - i'll be set. | |
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ifarrell
join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC
 ·Vonage
| said by fcisler :Except i really don't want to spend $799 on a TiVo. And then have to rent two CableCards. My SA 8300HD does just fine...i can record two HD shows and watch a third previously recorded (or one of the recordings live), for under $10 a month. My reason for wanting TiVo back in the day was to install a NIC and rip quality recordings off of the TiVo's HD. With the 8300HD and FireWire - I can do that now. It's much less than $799 if you look around.
It can be had now for $599 or maybe less. | |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| said by fcisler :My reason for wanting TiVo back in the day was to install a NIC and rip quality recordings off of the TiVo's HD. With the 8300HD and FireWire - I can do that now. How do you get the content off the box?
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я люблю Денди! | |
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fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY
| Re: Useless anyways! FireWire (1394), a Mac Mini and CapDVHS (under windows) or the FireWire SDK under OS X also contains two utilities.
There's also a piece of software for OS X which you can schedule recordings.
For whatever reason, VLC will only allow you to open a capture device when within windows - which means you can view it live. | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Especially in price  | |
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banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
join:2001-08-18
Naples, FL
·Comcast
edit:
May 11th, @01:39PM
| Seriously, if not for the price tag, I would replace my SA 8300HD with a TiVo Series 3 for software reasons alone. In my Comcast market, our 8300s are powered by SARA software, which goes to a fair amount of effort to degrade the user experience significantly. To wit:
•There's no ability to record something that airs in the future if it doesn't appear on the schedule (i.e., no recording by title).
•The device only has a week's worth of listings at any one time (could be Comcast's fault).
•The "record all episodes" functionality isn't intelligent. Even if a show you've set to record stops airing, it will continue recording whatever airs in its place until you manually delete the "all episodes" program. The guide knows the show isn't on anymore, but the scheduled recordings list doesn't.
•No ability to search listings for a show. You get a standard grid, or a cumbersome "browse by title" feature (in which you have to page through a week's worth of shows -- across all channels -- in alphabetical order). "Browse by title" also misses some programs that the grid view finds, so you can't trust it anyway.
•No "suggestions" (a TiVo hallmark that I've enjoyed quite a bit on my TiVo Series 2 -- it records programs it thinks you will like, based on other recordings you've programmed and ratings you've given).
The 8300HD is a flat-out excellent piece of hardware that's hampered by archaic software. At least Comcast will (should?) eventually offer TiVo software to us according to their recent deal with TiVo, but since they concentrate on their Motorola markets first, we'll likely be waiting for years.
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fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY
| Re: Useless anyways! Yes...I have come across these issues, and they are annoying....
-You can manually schedule for as far in advance as you want...although no replacement for further scheduling.
-Also brings in the first point - they SHOULD provide you with more than a weeks worth of programming. It's easily doable...but why they don't is beyond me.
-YES! Very annoying. And then - if you hit stop and try and erase - it tells you it will stop all FUTURE recordings!
The rest of those points I have to agree on. Except the suggestions. I know what I like, and don't want anything to "suggest" something i want...but YMMV.
Either way...i'm satisfied with the 8300HD. My favorite part is that when it dies (i'm on 8+ as of right now) - i bring it back to cablevision and swap it out on the spot. | |
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join:2004-08-05
Home
| said by banditws6 :•There's no ability to record something that airs in the future if it doesn't appear on the schedule (i.e., no recording by title). TiVo has the same limitation, really.
TiVo doesn't have a list of every show ever just sitting on its hard drive. If it is a new show that has never been on before, or hasn't been on in a while, it will have to be on in the next 12 days for you to be able to record it. I don't believe SARA software can get a 12 day guide, so that does limit "future" shows quite a bit.
Now, you can use TiVo wishlists to catch something that hasn't aired yet that TiVo does not yet know about.
But TiVo can't see shows that don't appear on the schedule either, unless you already had a Season Pass setup for it if it was on in the past. | |
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NateDawg
@embarqhsd.net
| said by Toadman :The lack of support by both vendors and Cable operators have rendered cablecards useless. Why have one when the rental box costs the same? Cable cards are very useful. The answer to your question is TiVo. The latest "Series 3" TiVo requires two cables cards to operate, and has capabilities beyond ANYTHING that a cable box (HD DVR) could even dream of doing. I can stream video, photos, whatever, to my TiVo (and back) from my laptop, and the recording capacity is about 32 hours of High Definition recordings. You can download the majority of the HD shows you record to your PC, there is a web interface, etc.... Too much to list here....
The down side... the price. $599 is as low as I have seen it in the last week or so... usually $799. But if you can afford it...there is nothing better out there right now.
So, THAT is why I believe cable cards are very useful. 
fRoM dA dAwG pOuNd -------> nAtE | |
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Phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Jacksonville, FL
| Re: Useless anyways! I suppose you love how well Video On Demand works with it too? Sorry, but even though I can record shows, I do enjoy my interactive sessions, especially considering a TiVo cost over $599. It should support VoD services if you ask me. Otherwise I can build a MythTV box and use it for many other things a TiVo can't do  .
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SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. | |
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| TheGhost
Premium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL
clubs:
| Well, around here they do not (or at least did not) cost the same. Cable boxes are around $7 a month while the first cable card is free. Afterwards, the fee was less than a box.
Another reason to not have a box is that you don't have a box. It would be nice with a flat panel on the wall to not have to put a box there. | |
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| Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Pittsburgh, PA | Cablecards had better get useful by July 1st because a lot of cableco boxes will have them after that. | |
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cabletech69
@npgco.com
| This is a true statement... We charge 5 dollars for a the digital box rental 10 for a dual-tuner dvr hd-box... Of course you have the fees for the hd and digital tiers however with the box you have the interactive guide and the motorola dct 6416 boxes can also provide internet using the ehternet port in the back of course most cable providers arnt going to use this feature it is there. With cable cards the tv that they are installed in need to have a built in cable modem to access the guide, and to order PPV with out having to call in to your provider to order this programming... We have cablecards in the field and as a tech i see lots of cablecard ready tvs that dont have cable modem tech built in, Rendering the card useless for some of the features people enjoy about having a digital box. Although the gov. is forcing cable providers to change the type of boxes we use to include cablecards at this point for security reasons,soon enouugh even with a digital box a cablecard will still have to be used | |
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GoodyearMark
Premium
join:2001-05-02
Goodyear, AZ
·Cox HSI
| Re: Tivo's days are numbered..... said by ninjatutle :Cable cards aren't the only thing they need to worry about. -$17/month fees plus high upfront box fees  -on screen ads -selling customer data Just to name a few reasons  $12.95 a month for the 3 year plan.
I have no on screen ads. Do you actually use a TIVO?
If our family data has been sold I have no evidence of this confirmed by no junk in my mail box, email accounts or on my phone lines.
Sounds like someone who can't afford it and is mad to me.
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Got a V3 or a V3i or an L7? Want to get the most out of them? Check out my sites »hacktheV3.com and »hacktheV3i.com and »hacktheL7.com
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myosh
join:2001-05-03
Cupertino, CA
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Tivo's days are numbered..... said by ninjatutle :Yes, I had a Tivo until I got my Uverse installed 2 weeks ago. I was paying $19.95/month. Why, free box = $20/month. You are locked into a contract paying $13/month for 3 years. I was locked into paying $20/month for an entire year. They sell the data of what you are watching. If you had a TiVo, then you should have known better than to say TiVo has on-screen ads.
BTW, even if TiVo is selling the data of what you're watching, what makes you think AT&T won't be doing the same thing. | |
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herdfan
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Hurricane, WV
| said by ninjatutle :They sell the data of what you are watching. But not YOU specifically. It is all aggregate data. | |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
edit:
June 6th, @05:39PM
| Re: Tivo's days are numbered..... I *want* them to sell what I'm watching to the networks, so they won't cancel the damn shows I watch!
Edit: Oops, wrong topic.. this one is old.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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i5050MbSoon
Formerly TwoKDialup
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI
| Save the buggy whips! Cable cards, DVRs and Tivos will find their final resting place right next to everyone's lava lamps in their attics.
OnDemand/SDV is more convenient anyway!
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Meet Bill and Karolyn at www.theslowskys.com | |
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b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
edit:
May 11th, @01:55PM
| But won't the new cable cards fix this? I can understand how this could effect analog Tivo's and the current one way cable card compatible devices.
But the two way cable card that are due to be released should take care of this.
Yes you will have to replace your current cable card devices, but that's the price you pay for being an early adopter.
I learned my lesson on early adopting back in 1993 when I paid $350 for a portable MP3 player that only had 48 megabytes of memory.
But I was the first person on Earth to own one!  | |
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bl0atwarez
@rr.com | Uh 48MB portable MP3 player is available in 1993? | |
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| | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
edit:
May 11th, @04:02PM
| Re: But won't the new cable cards fix this? um... yeah believe it or not there were MP3 Players around long before the I-pod came out.
It used compact flash cards and came with a 48MB card and used a propritary software that converted the MP3's to another format when it uploaded them so they could not be played on any other device.
Like I said it cost $350 and was about the size of a pack of cigarettes, still half the size and a quarter of the weight of a portable CD player. | |
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Sacker
Currently a Student
Premium
join:2004-01-09
Antioch, TN
clubs:
edit:
May 12th, @05:46AM
| The first Digital Audio Player was released in 1997 by a company called SaeHan in South Korean. So I highly doubt you had an mp3 player in 1993. Im not even positive that the mp3 file format was released to the public in 1993. If I remember correctly it was released in 1995.
Just for your information the PMP300 was released in 1998. | |
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Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA
| Cable cards are junk I hope this will make them completely useless.
Suckers that wasted $800 on a Tivo 3 will be pissed off (another plus).
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Clarification said by Xela19115 :TiVO3 is a unidirectional host, i.e. it is not interactive on the cable plant. Not a CableCARD or cable company's problem. TiVO chose to build it that way. TiVo really didn't have a choice. They could sit on the S3 amd wait 2 years (2008) for the cableCARD 2.0 standard to come out and basically lose whatever chance they hoped of getting into the HD market. Or they could release a product that worked with everything except VOD and at least get a market share. They chose the later, but only because the cable industry forced their hands. The TiVo S3 was set to come out in 2006 around the same time cableCARD 2.0 was supposed to come out, but the cable industry dragged their feet (and kept asking for waivers) so it was pushed back 2 years. This isn't TiVo's fault. They did the best they could given the situation.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
edit:
May 12th, @02:38AM
| Re: Clarification CableCARD 2.0... do you know what that does? It's a multi-stream card...
Tivo got around the 1.0 single stream limitation by building in a second card slot.
CableCARD 1.0 already allows for 2-way communication if the equipment makers want to spend the time and money to enable the features.
Read this:
»www.opencable.com/primer/cableca···mer.html
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Don't mind me, I'm just trying to help...
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Clarification said by MacLeech :CableCARD 2.0... do you know what that does? It's a multi-stream card.. Yes I know what it means, but apparently you do not. First off multi-stream support is not dictated by the CableCARD 2.0 standard though it was finalized around the same time. The 2.0 standard dictates the specifications of the host device to guarantee support for 2-way communications.
The TiVo S3 supports both S-CARDs and M-CARDs (it requires either 2 S-CARDS or 1 M-CARDS) so it can handle multistream cards, but it does not have the capability to do 2-way communication. It does not currently support M-CARDs in multistream mode because when the S3 was released in September of 2006 there was no CableLabs certification process for M-Host devices; that was started in January 2007. Without certification the TiVo was not allowed to support M-CARDs in multistream mode, so that feature was disabled. It will be enabled in the future whenever CableLABS certifies the S3 as a M-UDCP device.
From the page you linked to under the section of "Migration to Multistream Support" there is a link entitled "Host-CFR-2.0 specification" which links to a page that specifies the host requirements for 2-way communication. The requirements were finalized on March 23, 2007 while the TiVo S3 was released last year. There is no way the TiVo S3 (a host device) could have met those requirements since they hadn't been finalized yet.
Tell me how TiVo could create a cableCARD 2.0 compatible device when the spec hadn't yet been finalized when the S3 was released? Like I said they could have waited for the release and then changed their product to match or they could release with what they had. They chose the later.
They could have went ahead an implemented 2-way communication by supporting the three different protocols already in use by different cable systems, but since the standard hadn't been finalized there was no guarantee that it would work everywhere or that the standard wouldn't change. Remember the TiVo S3 has to work on every cable system, while cable provided boxes just have to work on that cable provider's system.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
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eljay001
join:2004-03-17
South Portland, ME | I'm happy with analog cable and MythTV at the moment I don't know how much longer analog cable is going to last, but I'll worry about that when the time comes. Worse case scenario I'll have to figure out how to use IR blasters. | |
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myosh
join:2001-05-03
Cupertino, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: SDV, CableCards, TiVo I benefited from being an early adopter of TiVo's technology because it allowed me to buy a Series3 TiVo and have my lifetime service transferred from my old Series2. I pay NO monthly fees and there are NO on-screen ads. TiVo also offers a multiple service discount (MSD) where I could add another TiVo for $6.95/mo. Aren't most cable DVRs $10-12/mo?
It's also interesting to note the same article is also being discussed in at the TiVo Community Forums (»www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sh···t=351576) but with a totally different take where people are talking about comments in the article that state TiVo is working with the cable companies to make SDV work. Here, it seems to be open season for taking pot-shots at TiVo users by calling CableCards and TiVo useless, lying about on-screen ads and calling TiVo users suckers. | |
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BlueConnect
join:2004-04-02
FFX, VA
edit:
May 12th, @05:36PM
| My choice With FIOS I pay $2.99 a month for a cable card, the card is mated with my Pioneer Plasma and I get to view all the normal analog, SDTV and HD content I care about Granted I could pay $7.00 more per month for a HD STB and get more features that I don't use. With Cox the CC was $1.99 a month. For the consumer it's about choice. It's your money, do what you want with it. | |
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| smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home
| Re: My choice said by BlueConnect :With FIOS I pay $2.99 a month for a cable card, the card is mated with my Pioneer Plasma and I get to view all the normal analog, SDV and HD content I care about SDV? I really don't think you're watching Switched Digital Video with a CableCard through FiOS TV... | |
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testhomer
join:2001-12-26
Clovis, CA
| ATT/Uverse technology Does ATT/Uverse technology currently allow for simultaneous transmission of 750MHz/860MHz of QAM spectrum? If not, then ALERT Congress and tell them that Uverse isn't compliant with the CableCard!!! Wow, another BLACK eye for the good ole FCC. Jeez, what propaganda. The world really isn't one big conspiracy theory.
I think I'm going to invent something new for the automobile and then get pissed and lobby congress in the year 20XX when the automobile gets phased out and we move to something else.
SDV is all about consumers getting the ability to watch more content over existing infrastructures. SDV trials have been going on for quite sometime, it isn't something new. The IP connection/streaming setup of Uverse is similar to SDV or even VOD through cable. Why isn't TIVO getting all worked up over that? | |
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ArcticGabe
Premium
join:2002-06-15
Royal Oak, MI
| This is why I have sattelite Articles like this make me ever more confident in my decision to stick with DirecTV. I considered switching at one time, but now I have to ask myself WHY???
I have my HiDef Tivo that gets me all the HDTV channels that I watch, AND I don't have to deal with oppressive and monopolistic Comcast!!
Actually, I can't wait for the day when we'll be able to (legally) purchase individual shows from the internet (iTunes maybe or something like that??) to watch on my TV, thus letting me completely bypass the monolith distribution companies completely, who are just interested in selling me channels, not content. | |
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| jazzy112
join:2003-12-05
Fargo, ND
| Re: This is why I have sattelite I second that, except I have Dish Network. I don't have to deal with Tivo at all. And since I am on the "Everything" pack I don't even have to pay those pesky DVR fees, and even if I wasn't on the everything pack the fee is only 5 or 6 bucks per month. And the DVR's are dual output and dual control, so it's essentially like having 2 for the price of one. I just don't like the idea of having to pay over $500 for the unit and then having to pay recurring fees to the same company I just gave a huge chunk of money to, and what does that monthly fee get you? Not for me, my Dish DVR does everything I need it to. If I wanted to watch my content elsewhere, I'd get a pocket Dish or use a Slingbox (in theory a good idea).
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Phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Jacksonville, FL
| Re: This is why I have sattelite said by jazzy112 :I second that, except I have Dish Network. I don't have to deal with Tivo at all. And since I am on the "Everything" pack I don't even have to pay those pesky DVR fees, and even if I wasn't on the everything pack the fee is only 5 or 6 bucks per month. And the DVR's are dual output and dual control, so it's essentially like having 2 for the price of one. I just don't like the idea of having to pay over $500 for the unit and then having to pay recurring fees to the same company I just gave a huge chunk of money to, and what does that monthly fee get you? Not for me, my Dish DVR does everything I need it to. If I wanted to watch my content elsewhere, I'd get a pocket Dish or use a Slingbox (in theory a good idea). You still need an access card, and you still lack true Video On Demand service, or any other interactive features that cable is offering. But I feel ya on the cost. Either way, there is ways to get the TV you want for free, which I think is even better, and would be worth my $500. I am currently saving my pennies for a DVR capable FTA box so I can "save some money".
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SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. | |
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Phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Jacksonville, FL | QUESTION: Will SDV Derail Cablecards & TiVo? ANSWER: Umm, I'll say "yes" on that one. SDV sounds more like an "Interactive Service" to me...
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SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. | |
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Will SDV Derail Cablecards & TiVo?
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Yea..