 
Steve
Security is inefficient
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Tustin, CA
| Brings me back to 1996 ... when people thought they could control who links to them.
I wonder if Cingular sucks might be a forbidden link?
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site | |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
 ·Suddenlink
 ·Cirtex Hosting
| Re: Brings me back to 1996 said by Steve  :... when people thought they could control who links to them. I wonder if (removed url) might be a forbidden link? Yes it would be, if you read what it says in fine print.
(i have removed the url link in my reply, to comply with the website owners wishes)
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Give me bandwidth or give me death! | |
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Steve
Security is inefficient
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Tustin, CA
| Re: Brings me back to 1996 said by gatorkram :Yes it would be, if you read what it says in fine print. They are attempting to make this a matter of contract, and that if you visit the site at all you are somehow agreeing to those terms. Whether this would actually hold up in court is one thing, but what if some person, who has never visited the site decides to do this?
Under what theory would that person have any obligations whatsoever?
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Brings me back to 1996 Yeah, the big telco players often forget about things like "fair use" and "free speech" and other annoying concepts that get in the way of their goal of controlling the entire world....
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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fartness
Computersoc Dot Com
Premium
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside
clubs: | What about google linking to nested pages? | |
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digiblur
Got Sipura?
Premium
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana | Re: Brings me back to 1996 Guess their web developers need a class on robots.txt | |
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| crackberry5
join:2007-05-03
Clarksville, TN
| um. all the idiots complaining about cingular saying it, but noone pointed to verizon for doing it as well...(you may need to put in your zip code.
»www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/glob···buse.jsp
Requirements for linking to www.verizonwireless.com
You may link to our site, subject to the following guidelines:
You must link only to our homepage, and not to pages within the site itself.
Verizon Wireless link must not appear connected to any other logos and graphics.
The Verizon Wireless link must not be used in any way that implies an endorsement by Verizon Wireless of any third party or their product or service.
You may only use a text hyperlink, and no use of the Verizon Wireless logo or Verizon Wireless artwork or graphics is permitted.
The Verizon Wireless name must not be associated with unfair, deceptive or libelous advertising or commentary or used in any way that will tend to injure or compromise our professional reputation and corporate identity and policies.
Your text hyperlink must include the following company name: Verizon Wireless. No stylization is permitted. | |
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desreversti
join:2002-09-03
San Antonio, TX | Haha Oh wow, I need more sleep. I initially read "homepage" as "homage". An interesting clause though, but not one that I think would easily stand up in court. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Mission Viejo, CA
clubs: | Cingular Blows and then some I'd like to see Cingular file a complaint and attempt to get the matter adjudicated. Their complaint will get laughed out of court by the judge faster than you can say Cingular sucks. | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Covad Wireless
edit:
May 3rd, @11:57AM
| F Cingular As a customer stuck in a contract I can safely say that Cingular sucks serious ass and I get CONSTANTLY dropped when trying to use the service on my L7. My want for an iPhone won't be enough to keep me if they don't fix the SoCal dropped calls issue. And it's not just me; everyone I know who has Cingular complains about the dropped calls.
They should spend less money on lawyers and more money fixing their suck ass network.
Oh and »www.cingular.com | |
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| Megladon1
join:2003-09-05
Minneapolis, MN | But arnt they the network with the fewest droped calls? I guess if you make shit up for data you can say whatever you want, and then have your legal team make everything better if questioned (or linked to) | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
| Re: F Cingular I don't see how they can claim the fewest dropped calls. More often than not my call gets dropped and that wasn't the case when I had Verizon Wireless. I have a few friends with Cingular and ALL OF THEM bitch about the same thing, CONSTANT dropping of calls. | |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | next, they will try to sue you for looking at them wrong. Isn't that essentially the same concept? | |
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birdfeedr
Premium
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Uh, oh! Now you've done it! Karl,
You better alert DSLR's lawyers so they can prepare your defense, or take down that link to their legal statement.
From your direct link above:
"You are granted a limited, nonexclusive right to create a hypertext link to the homepage of the Sites, provided ..." emphasis added
Homepage, yes. Nested page, no. | |
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ninjatutle
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | Pr0n Its a clause for an affiliate thing. Don't know if they still do the click for cash thing. They don't want their name being used for spamming.
This is actually not a bad idea  | |
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richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR | Much Ado About Nothing Hey! where is the fire. I see this is a not news item All say you can use their sight for slander, phishing or hotlink to their logo. | |
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odreian615
join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL | Have anyone been sued yet no WTF is the big deal SLOW NEWS DAY | |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
·Suddenlink
·Cirtex Hosting
| Junk fax laws If you ask me, they should be able to control who links to them, and sue anyone who links to them if they don't want them to. How is this any different than someone calling up your fax machine, and wasting your paper? Just replace paper with bandwidth. It's not like people don't have to pay for their bandwidth just like paper. And I'd support them even further if it could be shown someone was linking to them for the sole intent of wasting said bandwidth.
How can you be against this logic?
What if people were linking to your site? What if the bandwidth useage was costing you tons of money, or even crashing your site? I'd be willing to bet you'd be unhappy.
It's funny, I was just thinking of this the other day, as it pertains to the digg site. What if someone diggs your site, that they just happened to find by chance, and millions of people are now finding it, and nailing it without you wanting them to?
The internet is a public place, but it doesn't mean you want uninvited people knocking on your door. Just like you don't want people wasting your fax paper to show you their ads.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death! | |
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Julio
Bachatero y Que?
Premium
join:2003-03-19
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:
| Re: Junk fax laws said by gatorkram :The internet is a public place, You just pretty much crushed their defense 
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Join the BBR MLB 2K7 League
The internet is a series of tubes.. | |
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| | | Necronomikro
join:2005-09-01 | Re: Junk fax laws If you don't want millions coming to your site, then don't make it public. Have a home page that is nothing but a login screen, with the bare bones code being sent. Problem solved. | |
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join:2000-08-16
 ·Digizip
| Re: Junk fax laws said by gatorkram :Just because a site is on a public network, doesn't mean it's a known address, and that you want everyone and their brother to know about it. Much like someones phone number being unlisted. It's still on the public phone network, and anyone who knows the number can call. As for having to adapt my site so people don't abuse it like in this example. What a bunch of crap. Why should I have to design my website in any manner, than how I want to design it. If I don't want my url given out, it should be my right. It's plain to see you are not ready to play on the Internet. So why don't you hide your website, that you don't want anyone to visit anyway, on the LAN in your bomb shelter, accessible only to you, and your closest associates, and close the time-locked bomb-proof door behind you... | |
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| | | | | Necronomikro
join:2005-09-01
| If you don't want to play with open public networks and take the necessary precautions to keep EVERYONE from accessing it (ridiculous, if you ask me, but, whatever), then don't play with it at all. I, for one, would love to get extra traffic, but, oh well. | |
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join:2001-02-26
antarctica
| HAHAHA! Wow... I really dont know what to say... In this case it is OBVIOUS that they want everyone to know about their site, otherwise they wouldnt A: have it as such an obvious url, and B: spend millions of dollars to have it beamed into millions and millions of homes every day by way of T.V. adverts. Besides that, if you dont want people seeing your site, put a password on it. Only an utter idiot would claim that they have a right to stop others from linking to them (hotlinking on the otherhand is definitely a no-no). | |
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Julio
Bachatero y Que?
Premium
join:2003-03-19
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:
| said by gatorkram :said by Julio :said by gatorkram :The internet is a public place, You just pretty much crushed their defense Just because you have a site on the public internet, doesn't mean you want millions of people coming to your site. Even worse if they are only coming to be vindictive. Don't want people to come? Don't put it online.
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Join the BBR MLB 2K7 League
The internet is a series of tubes.. | |
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| | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
 ·Packet8
·Cox HSI
| Re: Junk fax laws said by gatorkram :If I own www.somewebsite.com and I don't want you using it, then I should be able to sue you if you do. 1. When you register a domain name, such as www.somewebsite.com, you technically do NOT own it. You are paying for the rights to use that domain which is why you have to renew periodically.
2. Your argument that you should be able to sue someone for looking at something you don't want them to look at when it is posted on a public forum will hold exactly ZERO muster in court. Good luck suing anyone. Once you put something that's publicly accessible out there, without protections like passwords, you give up the right to go after people for looking at it without your permission.
You need to learn how things work on the internet and drop the childish sue-happy attitude...
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Prove it... | |
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pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| said by gatorkram :... If it's my website, and my url, and my name that I am paying for, I should be able to control who uses it, and how. ... You ARE able... theoretically. It depends on your technical skills, what platform/software your site uses, etc.
You have to TAKE control, though. You can't just leave the door wide open and then complain when people pop in to have a look around. That's not how it works.
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My Site | |
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| | | | | Necronomikro
join:2005-09-01
| Routing. Drop all packets not from IP address. Problem solved, voila! now only you, and whoever you MANUALLY add can access it. No, I will not even try to get into the technical aspects of it.
As for cingular: they're a public site, and they want customers to be able to access it, they should know that linking is NOT copyrightable: all it is is basically an address. ZOMG YOU CANNOT POST THE NAME, ADDRESS, OR PHONE NUMBER TO MY COMPANY. NEVERMIND THAT I WANT TO STAY IN BUSINESS, AND THE INFORMATION IS PUBLICLY AVAILABLE!
Idjit. | |
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na
@co.uk
| So you want people to be sued from visiting your website if you don't want them to? If you don't want people to visit your web site password protect it - simple!
I know its the American way to sue anyone for pretty much anything, but suing someone for visiting your website when you don't want them to is completely stupid. What happens if they come across your website by mistake. For example if someone wants to go to a website but anciently misspelled it. Then that's it, you'll be sued!
How old are 7? 8? | |
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| jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
| That is the worst argument I have heard in a while. Their bandwidth is not used by linking. Only by clicking on that link and visiting their homepage is it used. You would think that they would want people to link to their homepage even if it crashes once in a while. That shows that people are interested in their company. As far as the Digg site example, what I would do is add more capacity so hopefully I can get new subscribers.
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Bush bashing is old. How about more solutions instead? | |
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Lumberjack
Premium
join:2003-01-18
Newport News, VA
·Cox HSI
| Re: Junk fax laws I can see how you could compare your website to a fax machine. Both have consumables (in terms of money). One is bandwidth that you pay for and the other is paper and a phone line. However you're analogy is incorrect in that the internet is public domain where-as a fax line is by default "private".
The difference however is that internet is public and a fax machine is private. Think of it like this. The internet is like public streets and the website is like a house or business. Some sites are like open shopping malls where you can go wherever you want. Other sites are like locked houses where you can only see a door and maybe a few other things on the outside unless you have a key and permission to enter.
Now, the fax machine is inside your house or your business. It isn't in that public realm. While you may know it's phone number and have the means to call it you must have permission or grant "public" permission (like posting the fax number generically). You also have the right to tell senders to your fax machine you do not want their spammy content. This is not determined by technology per-say but instead by law.
In the end law says you have to have some form of permission to send faxes to a recipient. There are no such laws (at least generically) to require you to have permission before viewing a web site. Based on this your analogy doesn't really hold up and you as a website owner agree that you are responsible for whom can see your website content based on your website configuration, not based on a set of laws (as with the fax machine).
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»www.fairtax.org | |
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jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
·Comcast
edit:
May 3rd, @03:20PM
| Cingular is welcome to check the referring url and deny a response as they see fit.
They have the tools to implement their own policies.
If they don't restrict their content then it's their problem. No one forced them to set up a server on the interweb.
»www.cingular.com | |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
| That is an interesting argument and not without merit but is is not a very apt analogy. A more precise one would be prohibiting a company from publishing your already public Fax number. All linking does it provide a sort of directory service.
It is the person accessing the referring site, making use if the link, that connects to the destination of the link.
You are correct bandwidth is not free but its cost is infinitesimal compared to paper cost consumed by an inbound fax. Not to mention the tremendous difference between circuit switched phone network and routed Internet. As others have posted the site owner has many tools available to control how much bandwidth a particular visitor uses.
My personal take in this is much the same as my perception of the RIAA and MPAA. These sorts of tactics show fundamental ignorance about how the new world of information technology works and more importantly annoy potential customers. Articles like this make me think twice about ever using the company's services.
/Tom | |
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justasking
@bellsouth.net
| Re: Two for the price of one what is the point of protecting a secret everyone knows?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5b D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
is propagating rapidly. Yesterday a google search return 420,000 hits today it is 3 times that, or 1,500,000. If you have a product that people love (media content) and you wrap it in a product people hate, what good does it bring you? Copyrights are too long in length, too encumbered in restrictions on fair use and too unenforcable should they become as cumbersome as they currently are. The Digital Millenium Copyright Act is as useless as the war in Iraq, who will be the first to notice the Empereor has no clothes? An AP search of "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5b D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" returns nothing, and yet the internet is filled with this "magic number" and it stories legend already. The corporate media becomes more transparent in their shilling for corporations and governments by their glaring lack of coverage on the stunningly obvious. It amazing the power of a number such as as 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5b D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 | |
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Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL
edit:
May 3rd, @03:19PM
| dp
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Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL | Now displaying links to: www.cingular.com Yahoo! has found 704,390 links to this site
Wow someone is in trouble | |
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aaron8301
I can't get myself to go away.
join:2005-01-03
Clarkston, WA
·CableOne
| Re: Now displaying links to: www.cingular.com Cingular better pack their lunches if they plan on suing these guys:
Google search for "Cingular".
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A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention, with the possible exceptions of handguns and Tequilla. -- Mitch Ratcliffe | |
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MemphisPCGuy
Senior Systems Engineer
Premium
join:2004-05-09
Memphis, TN
·Comcast
| I thought bad publicity... ... was considered as good, if not better than good publicity? And the fact they sell products seems to indicate they want visitors or whats the point ?
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»www.specmiata.com
»www.roofseek.com | |
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Homebrew1994
Betzwood Basement Brewery
join:2001-11-15
King Of Prussia, PA | Who cares. This seems to be pretty standard boilerplate language. | |
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crackberry
@charter.com
| d'oh um. all the idiots complaining about cingular saying it, but noone pointed to verizon for doing it as well...(you may need to put in your zip code.
»www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/glob···buse.jsp
Requirements for linking to www.verizonwireless.com
You may link to our site, subject to the following guidelines:
You must link only to our homepage, and not to pages within the site itself.
Verizon Wireless link must not appear connected to any other logos and graphics.
The Verizon Wireless link must not be used in any way that implies an endorsement by Verizon Wireless of any third party or their product or service.
You may only use a text hyperlink, and no use of the Verizon Wireless logo or Verizon Wireless artwork or graphics is permitted.
The Verizon Wireless name must not be associated with unfair, deceptive or libelous advertising or commentary or used in any way that will tend to injure or compromise our professional reputation and corporate identity and policies.
Your text hyperlink must include the following company name: Verizon Wireless. No stylization is permitted. | |
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Cingular Can Sue You For Linking To Their Website?
