 Drakemoore
join:2005-02-03 Hawthorne, FL
| Ummn.. right. Deployment and adoption of high-speed Internet service in the U.S. is a success story that shouldnt be portrayed as a failure because of misleading statistics -- Cables broadband service is available to at least 94 percent of all U.S. homes, McSlarrow pointed out. At the same time that broadband availability has increased, McSlarrow said, the speed of the service also has jumped while prices have declined."
94 Percent, Yeah right >.>
All raise their hand who thinks that's a load of crap
* Raises Hand* | |
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 |   TScheisskopf World News Trust
join:2005-02-13 Belvidere, NJ | Re: Ummn.. right. /me raises hand
Furthermore, since when did Fred Upton have a comedy act?  | |
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 |  |  BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15 Everett, MA clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
1 edit | Re: Ummn.. right. Hell the line about the prices going down and speed going up had me laughing more then the episode of seinfeld when kramer takes the school bus and converts it to a tour bus.
Funny fella right there. These folks should start a saturday night live clone tv show. | |
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 |   Fox McCloud Crazy like a fox.
join:2006-07-23
·Embarq
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| said by Drakemoore :Deployment and adoption of high-speed Internet service in the U.S. is a success story that shouldnt be portrayed as a failure because of misleading statistics -- Cables broadband service is available to at least 94 percent of all U.S. homes, McSlarrow pointed out. At the same time that broadband availability has increased, McSlarrow said, the speed of the service also has jumped while prices have declined." 94 Percent, Yeah right >.> All raise their hand who thinks that's a load of crap * Raises Hand* so you're saying that only 18,000,000 don't have access to cable? I find that number exceedingly too long; I'd venture to guess that 70%-80% of the nation has access to cable broadband, but, certainly not 94% | |
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 |  |  Thaler Premium join:2004-02-02 Encino, CA
| Re: Ummn.. right. *shrugs* If I had to do a rough guess, I'd say 50-60% myself. Whenever I have a relative move, usually they have broadband avaliable. However, there is also a good possiblity that they might find themselves in a tech void.
I'd say that 94% is accruate...if we count overpriced satellite ISP systems as true broadband. However, if we're judging on affordable consumer systems (ie. $25-40 per month) then it's around 50-60. | |
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 |  |  |   Fox McCloud Crazy like a fox.
join:2006-07-23
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| Re: Ummn.. right. said by Thaler :*shrugs* If I had to do a rough guess, I'd say 50-60% myself. Whenever I have a relative move, usually they have broadband avaliable. However, there is also a good possiblity that they might find themselves in a tech void. I'd say that 94% is accruate...if we count overpriced satellite ISP systems as true broadband. However, if we're judging on affordable consumer systems (ie. $25-40 per month) then it's around 50-60. Yeah, but he stated that CABLE had 94% coverage in the USA; if that were the case, I'd think that I'd probably have cable by now, along with a lot of other people that I know...
But yeah, 94% broadband coverage, period? Yeah, I'd say that's accurate, but that's only because of satellite. | |
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 |  |  |  |  burger2000
join:2001-06-25 Madison, WI
| Re: Ummn.. right. I think whoever from the NCTA that made that comment meant that 94% of U.S. homes that are passed by cable plant have broadband internet service available.
So whoever stated this either misspoke, implied a very important fact, or is just plain misinformed/lying. I lean towards the first. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   Fox McCloud Crazy like a fox.
join:2006-07-23
·Embarq
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: Ummn.. right. said by burger2000 :I think whoever from the NCTA that made that comment meant that 94% of U.S. homes that are passed by cable plant have broadband internet service available. So whoever stated this either misspoke, implied a very important fact, or is just plain misinformed/lying. I lean towards the first. ok, that would make a lot more sense.
Seriously though, would there be any reason that if you got cable TV service that you couldn't get cable internet service? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  Thaler Premium join:2004-02-02 Encino, CA
| Re: Ummn.. right. said by Fox McCloud :Seriously though, would there be any reason that if you got cable TV service that you couldn't get cable internet service? Well, I think there are actually services and stations a cable provider needs to put out in order to provide internet on a cable run. Simply having a copper wire doesn't automatically allow it to act as an ISP...until the cable provider has made the investment.
By similar logic, I could also wonder why everyone doesn't have access to DSL...seeing as how nearly every home is phone-wired anyways. | |
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 |   gaforces United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07 Santa Cruz, CA
·Cruzio Internet
| The cable co's and tel co's want to keep us strangled in broadband so they can continue to gain profits. Milking the copper.
If they had to spend money on deployment, and upgrading thier equipment/lines, that lowers thier profit margins.
They continue with thier lies and spinning to contain/restrict peoples awareness of our lack of a national broadband policy.
The marketing and management of these companies are responsible for the sad state of broadband in America, and they use a % of thier profits to buy/lobby lawmakers to go along with thier mercenary plans. -- The will of the people is the best law. -Ulysses S Grant | |
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  Cabal Premium join:2007-01-21 Boston, MA
| "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" Well, at least I agree with something in these multiple articles. Can someone tell me again why we're expecting companies to roll out services and infrastructure to areas that will never even pay off the cost of that infrastructure in our lifetimes? -- Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru? | |
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 |   GOLFnSUN Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
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| Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" said by Cabal :Well, at least I agree with something in these multiple articles. Can someone tell me again why we're expecting companies to roll out services and infrastructure to areas that will never even pay off the cost of that infrastructure in our lifetimes? Those who want this BB policy expect the taxpayers to pay for broadband to every little rural whistle stop and farmhouse, and damn the cost. In other words, become more of a socialist country than we already are. -- -- Internet News My BLOG My Web Page | |
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 |  |  BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15 Everett, MA clubs:
·Comcast
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| Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" said by GOLFnSUN :said by Cabal :Well, at least I agree with something in these multiple articles. Can someone tell me again why we're expecting companies to roll out services and infrastructure to areas that will never even pay off the cost of that infrastructure in our lifetimes? Those who want this BB policy expect the taxpayers to pay for broadband to every little rural whistle stop and farmhouse, and damn the cost. In other words, become more of a socialist country than we already are. Mine as well be more socialist.
I mean really we have so many problems not addressed at this point whats one more in the pot.
Why can't we take the usf slush fund and actually use it for something other then letting the companies dip in to make their bottom line look better. -- "It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA
1 edit | Re: "Why can't we take the usf slush fund and ..." said by BosstonesOwn :Why can't we take the usf slush fund and actually use it for something other then letting the companies dip in to make their bottom line look better. Yes, why are we still spending zillions to make universal landline voice service available to anyone who can afford to pay the monthly bill? | |
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 |  |  jytr
join:2005-02-03 Cliffwood, NJ | Socialism for the wealthy and capitalism for the rest of us.
Peace
"America. Home of the free and enslaved" (C) 2007 James T. Romano | |
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 |  |   marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| said by GOLFnSUN :Those who want this BB policy expect the taxpayers to pay for broadband to every little rural whistle stop and farmhouse, and damn the cost. In other words, become more of a socialist country than we already are. Leaving out Alaska, which is like addressing another country all by itself, what is the farthest distance in the continental United States from a metropolitan statistical area (including all MSAs, CMSAs, and PMSAs)? In other words, how much of a "whistle stop and farmhouse" are we talking about? -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com Professional Geographer Geographic Information Science researcher | |
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join:2004-07-31 Whiting, IN
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| Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" What socialist country are u talking about? I know you don't mean the "big govt is better" usa. Or instead of big govt maybe we are run by the corp's, which would make us an oligarchy. But maybe I am wrong and we are socialist country where 3 or 5% of population controls 90+% of wealth. | |
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 |  |  |  Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA | Quite a bit actually.. there's this big swath of country called the Mid-West.
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 |  |  |  |  fiberguy My views are my own. Premium join:2005-05-20
| Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" That map, although interesting, doesn't speak much for broadband deployment.
Take two states, called the midwest,...Minnesota and Iowa.. (And some people still call Ohio the "midwest" when they are more eastern than anything) but Minnesota and Iowa... both of those states have broadband in places most people wouldn't think broadband exists. Iowa, for being mostly farm land, actually has some pretty good rural coverage. As for Minneosta, many of the smaller areas have broadband too.. -- "Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy..." | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" Well the question was "what is the farthest distance in the continental United States from a metropolitan statistical area." So I was simply answering that. The map doesn't take into account infrastructure at all. Hell I bet they have GREAT service in Aspen Colorado. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  Thaler Premium join:2004-02-02 Encino, CA | YMMV though.
I have relatives in Louisiana that *just* got broadband made avaliable to them. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
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| Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" said by Thaler :I have relatives in Louisiana that *just* got broadband made avaliable to them. Wow! And this happened without a "national broadband policy" too! -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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1 edit | Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" said by pnh102 :Wow! And this happened without a "national broadband policy" too! For the are they were living in, the access to broadband could've been avaliable much sooner. Hell, old age is a way to die, but I wouldn't call Castro dying in a retirement home much of a successful assasination plot either.
I still have relatives and friends in locations that aren't the boonies, yet still have nothing but possibly a satellite offering. And no, I still won't consider satellite an honest broadband solution. 2-4x the cost for half the service of a traditional broadband provider isn't exactly "broadband covered".
We could certainly wait until 2050, 2100, etc. to roll on out until 256k coverage is avaliable everywhere in the US...but by then the slow "industry motivated" wiring movement would be waaay behind and nigh-useless for folks needs either. Perhaps having government wire the nation much like telephones isn't *the* solution, but the "we'll get to it whenever" moving force of broadband providers today isn't exactly utopia either. | |
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 |  |  |  |   marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| Most of the midwest is near a metro area now... you are thinking of the great plains  (That map is 10 years old and the metro area coverage increased about 40-60% since then.) But, it does illustrate nicely that most of the United States is not far from a metro. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
1 edit | Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" I don't buy this idea that "Metro" = served though. There are portions of Brooklyn that can't get DSL, and many third tier cities that have only the choice of a half-assed cable provider drowning in debt, etc....or a well off cable provider that can sodomize users because their only competitive pressure is a local telco offering late 90's interleaved technology or what have you...
It's a mistake to assume that metro=broadband competitive utopia, because that's just not accurate. And obviously, rural competition is worse.
And as broadband becomes increasingly used for social services via website, I think the issue of broad penetration does require more serious thought than investors and other financially motivated individuals are willing to give from their rather myopic, self-serving positions... | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" said by Karl Bode :I don't buy this idea that "Metro" = served though. My point wasn't that metro=served. My point was that metro=not in the middle of nowhere. In other words, that the number of rural whistlestops and isolated farmhouses that need to be served is shrinking and that those isolated farmhouses are growing closer and closer to cities. -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com Professional Geographer Geographic Information Science researcher | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02 | Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" Oh I know, I was just kind of opining in response to the general commentary of all the thread responses that suggests that if we're talking about populated areas, we're talking about real competition.... | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" said by Karl Bode :Oh I know, I was just kind of opining in response to the general commentary of all the thread responses that suggests that if we're talking about populated areas, we're talking about real competition.... Oh well, I would definitely agree with that  Especially the suggestion that satellite always provides competition. There are simply too many small business functions in particularly that satellite cannot adequately handle. -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com Professional Geographer Geographic Information Science researcher | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" quote: Especially the suggestion that satellite always provides competition.
The only people suggesting that are those who haven't used it for any extended period of time, or whom are financially or politically motivated to portray the market as more competitive than it actually is. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA | My bad, just grabbed the first one I googled...
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 |  |   richardpor Fur it up
join:2003-04-19 Portland, OR
1 edit | said by GOLFnSUN :said by Cabal :Well, at least I agree with something in these multiple articles. Can someone tell me again why we're expecting companies to roll out services and infrastructure to areas that will never even pay off the cost of that infrastructure in our lifetimes? Those who want this BB policy expect the taxpayers to pay for broadband to every little rural whistle stop and farmhouse, and damn the cost. In other words, become more of a socialist country than we already are. You forgot one import item the broadband socialist want with a national broadband policy: price controls. They want their cake but do not even want to pay wholesale. | |
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 |  |  PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04 Banks, OR
| said by GOLFnSUN :Those who want this BB policy expect the taxpayers to pay for broadband to every little rural whistle stop and farmhouse, and damn the cost. Who, specifically, says this?
I find it hard to believe anyone would:
-- The chances of implementing such an idea would be very low; -- It's not at all what other countries with more successful deployments have done; -- It's not at all what the U.S. did in the past for ubiquitious telephone and electricity deployment.
Methinksts it is far more likely that this characterization is "spin" intended to demonize the policy of ubiquitious BB deployment as much as possible, in order to favor a policy that benefits short-term business interests as much as possible. | |
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 |  |  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" quote: Methinksts it is far more likely that this characterization is "spin" intended to demonize the policy of ubiquitious BB deployment as much as possible, in order to favor a policy that benefits short-term business interests as much as possible.
Eloquently put and 100% accurate. | |
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 |  RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 | Bah. We don't need to do anything. Just ask the NCTA. They say only 6% of the country is not wired for cable broadband right now! -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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 |  |  fiberguy My views are my own. Premium join:2005-05-20
| Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" It's all cable's fault.. Good one, telco fanboy.
But, setting the facts straight, cable covers more ground in this nation that telephone's DSL service.
What exactly is telephone doing to deploy HSI services in areas that don't have it?
... I thought so. -- "Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy..." | |
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 |  |  |  RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 1 edit | Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem" Good one, cable { deleted }. | |
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 |   scrummie02 Bentley
join:2004-04-16 Arlington, VA
1 edit | Re: Amazing Cluelessness People that also complain the same government that wants to tap our lines and listen to us should also be the same ones that lay down and manage broadband we well. -- "I hate conservatives, but I really hate liberals." - Matt Stone »www.reason.com/ | |
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 |   marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| The problem here is that the market is clearly not able to achieve the goals being set out. There is no information transparency. There is poor accounting of benefits. There are rapidly developing monopoly situations. The market failures in the broadband market are all over the place.
Hence, this is a situation that calls for government intervention to solve. Right now though, we clearly suffer a rational ignorance failure (as this article demonstrates well), as well as heavy rent seeking and a short time horizon (see how many times complaints appear in this thread about recouping infrastructure costs in rural areas over a long time frame). The government failures are so clear it is almost laughable. We need to have government intervention against the market failures (and only against the market failures), clear legislative rational ignorance through non-governmental research support, push to eliminate rent seeking by regulated entities (all regulated entities), and most importantly extend our broadband deployment cost recovering time frame across multiple lifetimes.
If we do that, the issue will be solved and solved for a fraction of the cost of electric and phone deployment. -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com Professional Geographer Geographic Information Science researcher | |
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 |  BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15 Everett, MA clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| said by pnh102 :Why do people continue to insist that the same government which legalized spam with the CAN-SPAM act, and is about to legalize spyware in the same manner, among other things, is in any way, shape or form able to "manage" our broadband. If people want a guarantee that the best broadband we will ever get is a half working dialup connection on a good day, once a month, then by all means, pass a national broadband policy. For some people to continue to insist that the government is the answer to every perceived problem even though we know of the government's track record in this department, is a textbook illustration of insanity. Believe it or not some idiots actually consider spam a useful source for websites to buy crap from. Those same people also consider the crappy "dealfinder" tool bars useful as well.
That's why the government is making it "legal" , they are just trying to get it recognized as spam and spyware, as to attempt to make it easier to get rid of. Which we know isn't the case but WTH. -- "It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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  major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Stepford, CA clubs:
| This would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. A national broadband policy? You gotta be shitting me. The only way the U.S. will see such a beast is if the telcos give the OK to their well paid errand boy at the FCC and the whores in Congre$$ get something extra in their campaign coffers. Otherwise, you can forget about any kind of policy, least of all, one that benefits consumers. | |
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 |  See 6 replies to this post |
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 garmst
join:2000-09-17 New York, NY
| BLAH - BLAH! Virtually the only complaints I hear about BB availability are in this site. I have only heard about two complaints about BB speed or availability in many years. One was when my sister switched from Adelphia to Verizon to save money (she could have switched back if she really wanted to). Another was a friend in New Mexico who was outside the city and she got satellite (while not wonderful she still got access).
We do need more competition, and it certainly seems to be in the pipeline. The market and some reasonable GOV/FCC actions(and some inaction?) will hopefully allow this in the end. | |
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 |   major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Stepford, CA clubs:
| Re: BLAH - BLAH! said by garmst :Virtually the only complaints I hear about BB availability are in this site. Apparently you must lead a very sheltered life if you haven't bothered to look beyond this site for broadband complaints. -- The Toll
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 |  |   scrummie02 Bentley
join:2004-04-16 Arlington, VA
| Re: BLAH - BLAH! amazingly the first few hits are about UK or Australian providers or older complaints...thus corroborating what he said. -- "I hate conservatives, but I really hate liberals." - Matt Stone »www.reason.com/ | |
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 |  Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA | You live in NYC, what did you expect? | |
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  ColorBASIC 8-bit Fun Premium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA
2 edits | Priorities people F a BB policy...how about a traffic policy or energy policy. There are so many other issues that impact quality of life far more than someone not being able to get low latency broadband. The gov't needs to quit wasting time an money worrying about BS like this.
For those without BB, tough. Move. Everyone when chosing their place to live has many considerations. For me it was closeness to work, schools, shopping, freeways, crime rate and BROADBAND AVAILABILITY.
Whining about not having low latency broadband (since virtually EVERYONE can get sat BB) is like moving next to the airport THEN bitching about the traffic and noise. | |
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 |  See 17 replies to this post |
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 |   major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Stepford, CA clubs:
| Re: Number 1 for 90 years. said by batterup :Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch. And slowly the Death Star continues to reassemble itself... -- The Toll
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 |  |   batterup I Can Not Tell A Lie. Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Number 1 for 90 years. said by major marco :said by batterup :Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch. And slowly the Death Star continues to reassemble itself... There is no direct government regulation on most of the business ether. | |
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 |  fiberguy My views are my own. Premium join:2005-05-20
| said by batterup :Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch. Please just put that in your signature line once and for all..
... and to respond, as usual, Ma Bell being dead is where people are celebrating.. the putting it back together part is where "people bitch"... -- "Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy..." | |
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 massysett
join:2006-01-04 Silver Spring, MD
| I still haven't seen what other countries are doing with their bountiful broadband. What innovative services have emerged in those countries that we in the USA don't have? What uses are the people finding for their bandwidth, other than downloading spam and porn faster than ever? Until I see some proof of the benefit of faster speeds I too do not agree there's a problem. | |
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 |  BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15 Everett, MA clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: I still haven't seen what other countries are doing In Sweden for example it has increased worker productivity, people don't call out sick as often and they don't waste as much fuel by telecommuting.
I know one company who doesn't have an office any more. They all vpn into a data center and run the business off of their home connections. -- "It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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 |   major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Stepford, CA clubs:
| said by massysett :with their bountiful broadband. What innovative services have emerged in those countries that we in the USA don't have? What uses are the people finding for their bandwidth, other than downloading spam and porn faster than ever? Until I see some proof of the benefit of faster speeds I too do not agree there's a problem. That's brilliant! Do you work for a telco? You don't have a clue as to any new developments that have been deployed or will be deployed abroad, yet here you are pissing all over superior BB speeds that we can't get in the U.S. -- The Toll
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  Hpower Roflmao
join:2000-06-08 Glendale, CA | hah policy I had to laugh when I read the part ''we simply cannot agree on how to proceed'' hahahaaha how retarded. There never will be a policy. -- The Internet is about to go down....it is actually. | |
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 dynodb Premium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN
| "Industry funded"? I love how any organization that takes a dime of funding from business is written off as "industry funded", as if Citizens Against Government Waste was some niche telco shill group.
Only 21% of their contributions are from industry; the rest from individuals: »www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pag···ormation
Very little of what they do involves telcom issues: »www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pag···ues_main
Karl, do you even know if CAGW got any funding from telco interests at all, or is this your typically knee-jerk reaction in characterizing anyone in favor of free-market policies as a industry "shill"? | |
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 |  |  dynodb Premium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN
| Re: "Industry funded"? I ask again- do you have any reason to believe that CAGW gets a significant (or any) amount of money from the telcom industry?
Must any group that takes any money from any industry be disregarded as lobbying at the behest of those industries? Is the Sierra Club shilling for industry? The NAACP? The NRA?
Skepticism is warranted regarding the single-issue groups funded almost solely by the industry they lobby for. However, to paint an activist group that gets most of it's funding from individual donations and covers a wide variety of subjects consistant with their organization's main philosophy as an industry shill is a shallow ad hominem attack- especially given that you've not demonstrated that they've even taken money from the industry in question at all. | |
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 |  |  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
4 edits | Citizen's Against Government Waste quote: I ask again- do you have any reason to believe that CAGW gets a significant (or any) amount of money from the telcom industry?
Did I say they did? I believe the tag used was "industry funded," which is 100% accurate. I'd be willing to bet that yes, there is some telecom money in their pot that makes its way through various funds and organizations, but I didn't make that claim. The funding paths are intentionally obfuscated.
They are a deregulatory group funded by industry and wealthy business owners to lobby for deregulation, against open source, against union activity, against global warming, against smoking legislation and other "industry" goals if the price is right -- under the guise of government efficiency. quote: Is the Sierra Club shilling for industry? The NAACP? The NRA?
Those groups aren't for hire to the highest bidder. They also occasionally stand up to industry to protect their primary directive. So, no. CAGW is designed to look like those groups, though. In reality they're more public relations.
Some examples of their work for Microsoft and others:
»www.sptimes.com/2006/04/02/World···_w.shtml
»www.internetnews.com/bus-news/ar···p/871631
Their campaign for Microsoft where they used form letters from dead people to lobby lawmakers was a particularly nice touch, I thought. | |
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 |  |  |  |  dynodb Premium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN
| Re: Citizen's Against Government Waste said by Karl Bode :Those groups aren't for hire to the highest bidder. They also occasionally stand up to industry to protect their primary directive. So, no. CAGW is designed to look like those groups, though. In reality they're more public relations. Some examples of their work for Microsoft and others: » www.sptimes.com/2006/04/02/World···_w.shtml» www.internetnews.com/bus-news/ar···p/871631Their campaign for Microsoft where they used form letters from dead people to lobby lawmakers was a particularly nice touch, I thought. Yet they have an entire section against corporate welfare, and also numerous articles against "pork" spending that benefits private industry- is that a stance one would expect from an industry lobbying group?
As far as the MS link, someone returned 2 form letters that were sent out by CAGW to the address of a dead person. Yawn. As far as the Microsoft case, the free trade / libertarian crowd was quite against the government's case; their position was consistant with their core philosophy. Had they suddenly reversed course- such as being in favor of government funding for a contributor- then there would be cause for question.
NRA members were very much in favor of the bill to protect gun manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits, obviously gun manufacturers were too. Some of those manufacturers contributed money to the NRA... but it doesn't imply they were protecting the industry based on contributions- they were advancing a pre-established position that also benefited the industry, who backed the NRA with funding.
Ditto with CAGW- they're against excessive regulation and spending and have many ordinary people (myself included) who agree with that view. It's only natural they'd be against federal funding for broadband and the government witch hunt against Microsoft, which seemed to be based on little more than the fact that they were so sucessful. | |
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Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
2 edits | Re: Citizen's Against Government Waste I have nothing more to say that doesn't take us further into "Conservative Qwest employee vs. New England progressive humanist" political BS retread rhetoric. This is a "pro-industry", industry funded, public relations firm that works for the highest bidder, and that classification was your concern. I believe it's accurate. In fact I think I could have fairly used a harsher description.... | |
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  ONiall Yum, Citizen Premium join:2002-11-18 Portland, OR clubs:
·Comcast
| a policy would be helpful to the united states at this point taking into consideration the interests of the businesses, as well as the public, the united states can come up with a solid policy for broadband service. business should have the opportunity to make healthy profits, and citizens should have access to the tools of the modern world.
issue as i've interpreted it is the citizens want it for almost free, and businesses want to maximize profits. in order to accomplish their goals, they have put themselves at odds. now large amounts of money are being spent, funding yet more groups interests (politicians, talking heads, subject matter experts all want to make a living too), instead of being invested into an agreeable solution to the issues of the first two parties.
in a fashion, the conflicting interests help support our society, however, i don't get the impression that people desire this behavior as being the preferred method of accomplishing anything.
i suspect if each side got over trying to get the most out of the other they could work to a satisfactory conclusion. the united states as a community basically agrees we should be the best country on earth forever. broadband is a tool to success in the modern world. there are many applications still being realized. we'd be better off with businesses that realized healthy returns on their investments and a populace with experience and access to the economic/social/educational resources available on the planet.
all we really have right now is the government to operate as a mediator and advocate for both parties. just got to use it. -- i drink with bears for weekend carnivals. | |
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 |  dynodb Premium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN | Re: a policy would be helpful to the united states at this point So many words, so little said... do you work in politics by chance?  | |
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 hoyleysox
join:2003-11-07 Long Beach, CA
·Time Warner Cable
·Cox HSI
| I don't have a broadband problem My prices have stayed the same for about 5 years and my dsl speeds have increased. I could get cheaper broadband for $15 if I wanted.
Please don't get the politicians to raise my broadband rates or tax me to pay for month-long projects, adding repeaters for hundreds of miles, and adding a DSLAM just to provide broadband to 3 houses.
I like my DSL at its current prices. I'm sorry if you have a problem getting service in a rural area, but don't expect me to fix it. Pay the big bucks to have a T1 installed if you really need broadband, or get satellite, or move to the city. | |
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  odreian615
join:2006-01-18 Chicago, IL | Why not a massive ftth and docsis 3.0 rollout by the GOV and LEASE or Auction it out by grids to the small and big telcos and cablcos Wait that might end up costing the price of the Iraq war well the GOV knows it will get its money back in 20 years unlike Iraq | |
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 killnfield Killnfield
join:2000-12-05 Yerington, NV
·AT&T DSL Service
| I have broadband now but next month nothing I live in CA right now. Monday I am moving to Yerington NV, A t-1 line in 1900+ a month local loop cost is over a grand. Forget that I am stuck with a Sat connection or dialup and maybe ISDN. Here in CA I can get a wide verity of connections at a decent cost. I just want more then 1 or 2 options I don't mind paying a few hundered bucks on a decent connection but not 2k a month that is crazy. Wildblue is crap they cap you at 168 megs a day. So even if I could game of of it I would have to wait a few days to get the latest patches just to play. After 168 megs your speed drops to just above dial up. LOL! Well I understand my choice to move to a location that does not have many options for a internet connection, but we should at least have some cost effective options to choose from.
kill | |
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  KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK | Touche! We're sure the comments below will further illuminate just how unified we all are on the issue. LOL! Touche! | |
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  CableConvert Premium join:2003-12-05 Atlanta, GA
| ...and then there is Rwanda I f anyone has any doubt about what a cohesive national broadband policy can do...you only have to look at Rwanda, a country home to one of the worst genocides of our time. The new government has bet bigtime on broadband and telecom to give these people a life. Almost every school has a broadband connection which was almost unthinkable 10yrs ago. They are laying fiber at a rapid pace. The population is one of the most educated now in Africa. Private companies building out this network...not hardly. Its the Rwandan government. In fact, look at any of the broadband "heavyweights" S Korea, Japan, etc. Its the governments that are pushing deployment not private enterprise. There is no economic incentive to build out at that pace. Look at the electrical grid in the US. If it was left to private enterprise, the people just getting broadband in Louisiana might be talking about just getting electricity... There ya go...discuss | |
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  Michieru2 zzz zzz zzz Premium join:2005-01-28 Miami, FL
| .. This is simple.
Companies will not deploy services that will increase debt and lower profits for the sake of few individuals. They have the choice not too, now when you say "National Broadband Policy" I am thinking taxes. We already pay around 51% from our income in taxes, why must we increase this?
The answer is simple, the technology is not their yet, when wireless can be broadcasted at huge distances or labor and other factors come cheap and considering the price of copper right now is high, the means of installing and wiring will make sense in numbers.
Business is in for the money, they might take cuts but they are not there as a "mandatory" service or good. They can cut you off at anytime because it's their network and we are paying access to that network. The government should only be responsible for necessities, not conviniences.
There really is no problem, eventually as the United States expands and rural becomes urban the services will come. You made a choice to live that far, why must people kiss your ass and come to you? When you do something with a business your doing just that; business.
Both parties have the right to disagree and agree, when a service is being offered to you its simply a means of someone making an offer, and that their are certain guidelines in place. If you like the service and agree to the terms and conditions which are already available then you just closed a deal.
If you offered a service, I am pretty sure you will want to get paid a certain amount of money for that service. But of course this is yall "the price is too expensive lets all split it with every citizen in the nation so we can afford it".
So if I would like to get paid 10.00/h and I am cleaning a pool and since its very dirty I take two hours. I expect to get paid 20.00 for my services anything short and we are going to have problems.
More taxes and more free services that really just strain the tax dollars of those who actually work and are trying to make ends meet, only for that money go to bums and those who never did anything with their lives and still commit crimes in the street so they can be thrown in jail and watch TV all day from the comfort of their cell. -- The only limits we have are the one's we set ourselves. | |
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