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VOIP Growth Slows (Slightly)
Vonage still biggest VoIP provider
U.S. subscribers to VoIP services grew 18% to 8.2 million in the third quarter, but the growth rate slowed for a second straight quarter, according to the research firm TeleGeography and AP. Vonage remains the largest VoIP provider with 1.95 million customers, with Time Warner Cable and Comcast close behind at 1.64 million and 1.35 million respectively. Cable providers account for greater than 60% of all VoIP providers.
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chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA

chemaupr

Member

So where is cox?

They claim to have 1 1/2 million subscribers to their "digital phn"... I know is not all voip... but I think the same goes for TW or Comcast.

ispjournalist
@internet.com

ispjournalist

Anon

Re: So where is cox?

Cox is now a private company and doesn't publish numbers.
King Duck
join:2005-04-10
Elizabeth City, NC

King Duck

Member

Why I will never get VOIP.

If you get a telephone there is, essentially, only one way to plug it in and have it work, provided there is a signal on the line.

If you get a router there are only two ways to connect it to the net, either PPPoE or DHCP and some routers figure that out for you so you do not have to worry about it.

VOIP, on the other hand, has absolutely no standards.

Every VOIP provider has come up with there own podunk little method to get it to work.

They usually use their own piece of hardware, essentially a stripped down router in some cases, to connect, requiring their equipment to be daisy-chained with any existing router.

The practice of daisy-chaining is an arcane art at best. At work I have 3 written, mutually contradictory methods of daisy-chaining, each of which I have seen work in some circumstances but not others. There have also been instances where none of them have worked.

VOIP uses up bandwidth. I have seen claims that it does not use very much but in one case of which I have experience, on a 5/2 connection, with Skype running but not being used at the time, the person had only 4/0.8 available. After exitting Skype they had their full bandwidth available.

VOIP has reliability issues.

Based on specific examples quoted a few months ago in PC World magazine, not only are there some VOIP providers that cut you off if you use their service too much, but there are also VOIP providers out there who cut you off if you do not use it enough!

Yes, I know that VOIP saves you a couple dollars here and there, but when considering all of the down sides I do not believe that it will be worth pursuing for the average person until the industry 'grows up'!


garagerock
Premium Member
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY

garagerock

Premium Member

Re: Why I will never get VOIP.

well, good for you.

i'm totally satisfied with the cheaper/better features that Vonage has to offer. one man's meat is another man's poison, i suppose.
wayne8888
join:2005-10-16
Baltimore, MD

wayne8888

Member

Love VOIP

I tried Vonage back in 2003 and found it iffy. I am happy that I gave them another chance in 2005. I have dropped Verizon for good (at least until they get around to bringing FIOS to the city of Baltimore). The quality of Vonage is now excellent. I love the saved dollars. For Verizon and Cavalier, you were lucky if you could get multi featured unlimited local for $24.95/month. Then the final bill is more like $40 per month after the taxes, fees and surcharges. For Vonage, my $24.95/month goes up to $29/month and I get unlimited local, long distance and calls Canada, Puerto Rico and numerous European countries. Can you imagine how much Verizon would charge for that (even before the taxes, surcharges and fees)? The only reason that I originally held onto a landline was for support of Burgular alarms and Satellite TV. Now I use cellular alarm connnection and Vonage handles Dish network phone line requirement seamlessly.
Wayne

themew
Premium Member
join:2005-05-04
Fort Walton Beach, FL

themew

Premium Member

Re: Love VOIP

said by wayne8888:

I tried Vonage back in 2003 and found it iffy. I am happy that I gave them another chance in 2005. I have dropped Verizon for good (at least until they get around to bringing FIOS to the city of Baltimore). The quality of Vonage is now excellent. I love the saved dollars. For Verizon and Cavalier, you were lucky if you could get multi featured unlimited local for $24.95/month. Then the final bill is more like $40 per month after the taxes, fees and surcharges. For Vonage, my $24.95/month goes up to $29/month and I get unlimited local, long distance and calls Canada, Puerto Rico and numerous European countries. Can you imagine how much Verizon would charge for that (even before the taxes, surcharges and fees)? The only reason that I originally held onto a landline was for support of Burgular alarms and Satellite TV. Now I use cellular alarm connnection and Vonage handles Dish network phone line requirement seamlessly.
Wayne
Amen. I couldn't agree with you more...

CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium Member
join:2004-11-12

CableTool to King Duck

Premium Member

to King Duck
said by King Duck:

VOIP has reliability issues.


>>Voip Exceeds pots quality/reliabilty

Absolutes are for sissys. Although Vonage isnt above Pots, Cable Provided Voip is.

uther
join:2001-12-04
Saint Louis, MO

uther

Member

Re: Why I will never get VOIP.

I use Vonage.. It's better than the piece of crap POTS lines out here in terms of sound quality.

I believe Vonage is way above POTS in terms of sound quality. Also, ya can't beat the price.. Bell wants at least double of what I'm paying Vonage for comparing feature to feature.

But I guess your poison is my cure.

kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL

1 recommendation

kapil to King Duck

Member

to King Duck
LOL. This is funny. This is a good example of the difference in knowledge at the various "IT Ladder" levels. A level 1 helpdesk tech thinks he knows it all, but a level 2 tech knows a bit more, a level 3 a little more than that...and a sys admin a little more still.

VoIP does have its own set of standards and protocols. In fact, the vast majority of VoIP providers are using SIP, and SBCs to minimize NAT related issues etc. Covad uses MGCP but moving towards SIP. There is a HUGE community built around Asterisk and IAX....none of those are "podunk"...at least to those who know better.

You forgot "static IP" as an option in your "only two ways to hookup a router" tirade. There again, the problem is your level of knowledge. When you think router, you think DLink or Linksys....when a router more typically means a Cisco or a Redback.

I'm glad you passed your A+ test...come back and talk to use when you have your MCSE
King Duck
join:2005-04-10
Elizabeth City, NC

King Duck

Member

Re: Why I will never get VOIP.

Oops, my bad, yep I forgot about static IP.

I guess though I get a tad frustrated when I get calls from people expecting me to get their VOIP working when there is nothing wrong with their internet connection and there is no standard way to connect the VOIP equipment.
Why it never occurs to them to ask their VOIP provider for assistance I have yet to figure out.

CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium Member
join:2004-11-12

CableTool

Premium Member

Vonage Who?

Im pretty sure Comast has recently passed the 2 million mark. I think its 2.2 last I heard.

Vonage who?
DonLibes

join:2003-01-19

DonLibes

Re: Vonage Who?

said by CableTool:

Im pretty sure Comast has recently passed the 2 million mark. I think its 2.2 last I heard.
2.1 million according to Comcast's website: »www.cmcsk.com/phoenix.zh ··· eprofile . That's such a huge difference (2.1 vs 1.35) that I wonder if Comcast is defining their number of "customers" in an unusual way. They have a history of doing that with TV subscribers to make it sound like they have more (and sometimes less) customers when they apply for higher regulated rates.

CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium Member
join:2004-11-12

CableTool

Premium Member

Re: Vonage Who?

My area alone goes through 2000 EMTA's a week. We are a drop in a very LARGE bucket. I cant beleive they are inflated at all.

And Don, Sayng Cocmast has a history or fudging numbers based on your particular area is not indicitive of the entire company.
Thats like JTRockville running around telling everyone that Comcast has a notorious problem with grounding drops correctly because of an issue in here area.
Comcast is nationwide, and although local is all anyone cares about, when making blanket statements its laways best to back them up with "Locally...."
DonLibes

join:2003-01-19

DonLibes

Re: Vonage Who?

Ha, even you're doing it now. Saying your area goes through 2000 EMTAs a week is meaningless because we don't know how many are replacements versus new. Nor do we know how many are unused, perhaps sitting around somewhere, or installed in a location that isn't paying for them (complimentary or even in-house). And so on.

These are exactly the kinds of techniques Comcast would use in their financial reports.

CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium Member
join:2004-11-12

CableTool

Premium Member

Re: Vonage Who?

said by DonLibes:

Ha, even you're doing it now. Saying your area goes through 2000 EMTAs a week is meaningless because we don't know how many are replacements versus new. Nor do we know how many are unused, perhaps sitting around somewhere, or installed in a location that isn't paying for them (complimentary or even in-house). And so on.
These are exactly the kinds of techniques Comcast would use in their financial reports.
Complimentary Phone Service?

Im "guessing" those numbers are accurate because we go through EMTAs quicker then we can get them. Much like we did when the DVR came out. This OBVIOUSLY points to demand far exceeding the expected demand and therefore catching the supply short.
I can pull up a report at work that tells me how many CDV installs we did each and every day and how many CDV installs are pending for my area and for my entire market. I just stated my office alone pumps out 2k a week, for any purpose.

From that anyone could assume that CDV is doing pretty dam good and seeing large numbers reported next to that FACT isnt far fetched at all.

And financial reports are audited. Dont compare your hodunk county govt and their issues with Comast to the entire company and how they report numbers nationaly.

StevenB
Premium Member
join:2000-10-27
New York, NY

StevenB

Premium Member

Happy ATT Voip Customer

Never ever going back to Telco/Pots service again.
MikeVa
join:2002-02-01
Rocky Mount, VA

MikeVa

Member

Broadvoice getting better

I've had Broadvoice for over 2 years and has steadily improved. The only thing that sucks is that you are at the mercy of the cable company.

CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium Member
join:2004-11-12

CableTool

Premium Member

Re: Broadvoice getting better

said by MikeVa:

The only thing that sucks is that you are at the mercy of the cable company.
We are always at the mercy of someone.
MikeVa
join:2002-02-01
Rocky Mount, VA

MikeVa

Member

Re: Broadvoice getting better

Yup, you are definitely right.

phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL

phattieg

Member

Re: Broadvoice getting better

said by MikeVa:

Yup, you are definitely right.
Lord, I had Vonage, and Broadvoice both. Was generally happy with Vonage, but hated how dumb their customer service department was, tech support was ok, but waiting 45 minutes per call for someone to answer sucked. I never had to call until I canceled. They replaced the ATA, and claimed I sent an empty box in return. I used their own labels to return it, so I have no clue why they got an "empty box". After 3 credits for the charge being reversed, I gave up on calling them about it.

Broadvoice lost me because they "can't change my billing cycle unless they disconnected my account, and re-created it, which would lose my ported number. I couldn't have that, so I switched carriers for a while after that, then got Comcast Digital Voice.

Comcast Digital Voice is much better in consistency in quality, and performs better. The adapter has a battery for power outages, and 911 is guaranteed to work unless you move the equipment to a location that it's not registered to, of course. They use G7.11U only, nothing else, so you only have high quality calls. Since it's not prone to the general latency of public internet, there is no jitter, or occasional DTMF issues. The IP on the VoIP side is private, and only routed to the headend to terminate at the soft switch, which is directly connected/interfaced with a PSTN switch, in my case, a 5ESS. The quality is noticable, because no jitter, no slight 1 or 2 second occasional lag you get on other providers, and a tech can come to your house to install or repair any service related issues.

Just to be VERY clear, I DO work for Comcast, but I also run my own VoIP PBX running Asterisk. I still use my Asterisk box, but for Stanaphone DID's, and voipuser.org, as well as sipphone, freeworld dialup, and ipkall. I have tried almost every service that works with Asterisk, or your OWN VoIP adapter. None compare to Comcast, and that is not because I work for them, it's because I have been let down by other companies and specific issues they had with either guaranteeing me quality, billing disputes, or poor customer service (Vonage and Broadvoice are HORRIBLE, Vonage for the wait, Broadvoice for the "private run" feeling you get when you talk to someone who answers the line from their cell phone while at the gas station, and asks me to call back so he can look at the account).

Good luck all, hope my experience helps someone at least.

WA VOIP
@comcast.net

WA VOIP

Anon

ATT Callvantage in WA

I have had ATT Callvantage VOIP for well over a year, and am quite pleased with both the service and the fees. For $24.99 I have unlimited calling to the US and Canada and very small fees for international calling. The voice quality is very good.

I also have Comcast cable for both TV and broadband access. I stay with ATT for VOIP as Comcast wants $45 a month for VOIP. Their "introductory" rate of $33 a month for a year is higher than ATT, and, frankly, I cannot see how the voice quality can improve so much that it is worth another $8 - $20 more per month for the same type of service.

Verizon? Dumped them some time ago, yet they try to lure me back for their "bargain" unlimited calling offer of only - $65 as month.

I'll stick with ATT until I get a better offer, thanks.
Rick5
Premium Member
join:2001-02-06

Rick5

Premium Member

Vonage all the way

If you don't yet have this service..I'd suggest dumping your landline for good and signing up for it.

I won't go into all the features and savings because you can easily find that on their website but suffice it to say, this service will save you a TON of money over your local/long distance telco plans.

While perhaps they had some growing pains for a few customers I think that's all in the past and from what i've read they generally receive outstanding reviews.

This whole issue of reliability your cable company and others tries to pass off is a load of crap in my opinion and is just meant to try to sell you their more expensive service.

In addition, there are other voip providers out there who some perceive to be cheaper, but when you get finished adding up what they don't offer, those differences become very small. In addition, judging by news reports..many of these smaller players are under funded and their survivability in question. If I'm switching my phone service, I want reliabilty and someone who will be around for years to come.

Lastly, while the cable operators are, for the most part..in this game now..I think that once the triple play specials end, they'll do what they do best, raise their rates on this service.

Why pay them 40.00 or more for what you can get for close to half price.

VONAGE..all the way.

This has been an unpaid commercial announcement for a service that I think is just great and a real money saver.
massysett
join:2006-01-04
Silver Spring, MD

massysett

Member

Re: Vonage all the way

I had a rotten experience with Vonage. The quality suddenly dropped, and the customer service was worthless. All to save me $20 a month. Not worth it. I went running to Verizon, am happy to pay them $45 a month for a reliable phone, and will never again monkey around with something as essential as phone services simply to save a few dollars a month.

PolarBear03
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium Member
join:2005-01-03

PolarBear03 to Rick5

Premium Member

to Rick5
Well Rick, I WILL go into some of the money saving aspects of Vonage. So there!

For $24.95/mo (plus fees, ~$29/mo), you get completely unlimited calling to: US, Canada, Puerto Rico, France, Ireland, Italy, Spain, UK. I challenge anyone to call their POTS provider and find out the price of a calling plan to all of those countries. Sure, most offer cheap unlimited long-distance to anywhere in the US, but to the list I mentioned above? I think not.

Voice mail that can be checked via any telephone, their website, or emailed to you in .WAV files. Emailed to you! Genius! I have mine emailed to my Gmail account, where I never have to delete them, so I have a permanent archive of my voice mail. Hehe, don't leave threatening messages on my machine! Loads of forwarding and simultaneous ringing options - never miss a call again.

The #1 reason I have Vonage:

Me and the wife were long time excellent Qwest customers. Then cell phones took over, so we decided to go cell-phone-only for about 2 years. Now we have kids, so we figured we needed a home phone for the babysitter, when the kids get old enough to use the phone, etc. So we called Qwest. They wanted a $75 deposit for service. $75. After we had been good customers for years. I laughed as I quietly held my middle finger up to the phone.

So I talked to the installer of my fixed-wireless internet service (small town, small company; I go to church with the guy). (Fixed-wireless you say? Not VoIP over fixed-wireless!) He said he uses Skype over his connection without a hitch. So I figured what the heck, I'll give it a shot. You know what Vonage wanted to sign me up? A credit card number and a shipping address. No SSN, no DL#, no deposit.

I plugged in the Vonage telephone adapter to my router, plugged the phone into it, and I have beautiful phone service. Since my internet connection is only 512/512, if I am raping my connection with bittorrent or the like, the call gets choppy. So I only run bittorrent at night when I am sleeping, and other than that, Vonage makes sweet love to my internet connection.

The other thing I really like about it is, with me and the lady furthering our education, we will eventually have to move out of this rural area to a metro area to do it. When we do move, we won't have to call anyone to cancel our current phone service and start new phone service. No setting up appointments, no going without. We can take our phone adapter anywhere on the face of the Earth with a 100/100kbps+ connection (sans satellite, of course) and still have the same phone number. Try THAT with your POTS. Moving to a different LATA or different area code? Sorry, your POTS # will HAVE to change! Moving to France or Italy or England to study abroad? POTS and cellular will get pretty expensive calling mommy and daddy in the US.

Call quality is great (better than the lame POTS in this old rural area), and the features can't be beat for the price.

Is that what you meant to say, Rick?
ssprenge
Premium Member
join:2006-10-09
Chaska, MN

ssprenge

Premium Member

Re: Vonage all the way

I have Vonage, the quality of the calls is terrible. I sometimes can't even carry on a coherent conversation with it. And the cost is about $30 a month after taxes.

I'm not sure why the call quality is so bad. I'm not sure if it's Vonage, or my cable internet connection that is trashy.

We have a small regional cable company called Mediacom.

Any ideas?
Rick5
Premium Member
join:2001-02-06

Rick5 to PolarBear03

Premium Member

to PolarBear03
yep...you about covered it.
mat974
join:2005-12-05
Peoria, AZ

mat974

Member

VOIP

I love Vonage. The calls are great and I have been able to tell Qwest goodbye, forever. I like the fact that I can call anyone anywhere in this country for free. I have beeen with Vonage for 2 years, and have never had an issue that I needed to call them about. Oh, I am on fixed wireless.