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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
Gainesville, FL
| Re: But what do bean counters at music companies say ? said by TK Junk Mail  :There's no limit of people who believe that DRM-free content is not only inevitable, but makes good business sense. But what do bean counters at music companies say? They are the only ones that matter to the investors. Charge the same $$$ for content, spend les $$$$ on DRM crap....
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Am Heimcomputer sitz' ich hier, und programmier' die Zukunft mir | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| Re: But what do bean counters at music companies say ? said by joako :said by TK Junk Mail :There's no limit of people who believe that DRM-free content is not only inevitable, but makes good business sense. But what do bean counters at music companies say? They are the only ones that matter to the investors. Charge the same $$$ for content, spend les $$$$ on DRM crap.... But that could lead to even MORE piracy. And that is why they are doing limited tests. See what the impact on "NO DRM" is to the bottom line. If the test shows piracy doesn't increase, then it is a no-brainer to drop DRM. But if sales of the non-DRM'd releases is reduced because of higher piracy, then DRM will be here to stay. It is pure dollars and cents.
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My BLOG
My Web Page | |
| | | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: But what do bean counters at music companies say ? said by TK Junk Mail :But that could lead to even MORE piracy. And that is why they are doing limited tests. See what the impact on "NO DRM" is to the bottom line. If the test shows piracy doesn't increase, then it is a no-brainer to drop DRM. But if sales of the non-DRM'd releases is reduced because of higher piracy, then DRM will be here to stay. It is pure dollars and cents. I was getting ready to disagree with you, but the labels may be stupid enough to think this way. Given that all their music is already available for free online as mp3s, them making it available as an mp3 wouldn't increase piracy, but I guess they don't want to acknowledge that.
I think another factor behind this experiment is declining cd sales and flat/declining digital sales. I believe it's now obvious digital sales aren't going to make up the drop in cd sales and they are getting desperate.
So desperate, they will actually consider selling consumers what they want. | |
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Corehhi
join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
| There just hasn't been any good music lately. Thought heavy metal was coming back but looks like it fizzled. Rap is crap now, the girl's were hot for a few years, their not now. Music industry needs a new wave of whatever and they will make money. The last really big wave was when grunge hit the market. | |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
Gainesville, FL
| Re: But what do bean counters at music companies say ? said by Corehhi :There just hasn't been any good music lately. Thought heavy metal was coming back but looks like it fizzled. Rap is crap now, the girl's were hot for a few years, their not now. Music industry needs a new wave of whatever and they will make money. The last really big wave was when grunge hit the market. Yea rap needs another Biggie or something... honestly I think its going to finally die....
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Am Heimcomputer sitz' ich hier, und programmier' die Zukunft mir | |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
Gainesville, FL
| said by TK Junk Mail :But that could lead to even MORE piracy. And that is why they are doing limited tests. See what the impact on "NO DRM" is to the bottom line. If the test shows piracy doesn't increase, then it is a no-brainer to drop DRM. But if sales of the non-DRM'd releases is reduced because of higher piracy, then DRM will be here to stay. It is pure dollars and cents. The "piracy market" already has it share of "sales" in the music industry. The people who pirate will continue to do so, the millions of people that still continue to purchase music will continue to do the same, if anything some (small) amount of people who pirate music will buy now buy it because no restrictions are imposed.
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Am Heimcomputer sitz' ich hier, und programmier' die Zukunft mir | |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
join:2005-01-03
Riverside, WA
·CableOne
| said by TK Junk Mail :But that could lead to even MORE piracy. said by nasadude :Given that all their music is already available for free online as mp3s, them making it available as an mp3 wouldn't increase piracy, but I guess they don't want to acknowledge that.
I have to agree with nasadude. The music is already available for free, so by offering it as a pay service, they only stand to make money, not lose it.
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"I invented it, Bill made it famous." --David Bradley, the inventor of Ctrl+Alt+Del. | |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß | Re: maybe Sounds about right to me, considering their track record. | |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
 ·Sprint Broadband D..
| said by King P :I would almost say that it's conceivable for them to charge more for the music without DRM. Think of it as paying a "premium" for it. Of course, I have nothing to back that up other than my own way of thinking, but remember that this is the same industry that tried, unsuccessfully, to charge 2-3 dollars for 128k mp3 files from stores like PressPlay and a couple of others that flunked. Don't get me wrong, this would be a huge step for the music industry if they were to begin offering DRM-free music, even if it was for say 1.29, especially if people bought it at those prices. Does anyone here know what the yearly licenscing fees are for DRM software? I mean the stuff that layers the crap onto the content. That might be figuring into the equation, along with the realization that DRM is not unbreakable. | |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
Gainesville, FL
| Re: maybe said by TScheisskopf :said by King P :I would almost say that it's conceivable for them to charge more for the music without DRM. Think of it as paying a "premium" for it. Of course, I have nothing to back that up other than my own way of thinking, but remember that this is the same industry that tried, unsuccessfully, to charge 2-3 dollars for 128k mp3 files from stores like PressPlay and a couple of others that flunked. Don't get me wrong, this would be a huge step for the music industry if they were to begin offering DRM-free music, even if it was for say 1.29, especially if people bought it at those prices. Does anyone here know what the yearly licenscing fees are for DRM software? I mean the stuff that layers the crap onto the content. That might be figuring into the equation, along with the realization that DRM is not unbreakable. Well the owners of the stores would pay for that, and for them its all going to be apportioned down to cents per song, so the labels can demand more money, the consumers pay the same and the store makes the same amount profit per song. win win win
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Am Heimcomputer sitz' ich hier, und programmier' die Zukunft mir | |
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kyramilan
join:2006-11-26
Pensacola, FL
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·1and1
·Cox HSI
| Re: But what do bean counters at music companies say ? How about BETTER music???
Once I replaced all my 70s/80s tapes with CDs, mostly with BMG and Columbia opening and closing accounts, exactly how are sales declining?
ADD A FRICKIN' DVD TO THE CD! Free music videos might sell some of this 1 hit, voice enhanced, and the rest is garbage passing as music crap.
Also, I'm sick of the "Greatest Hits" CDs from bands that had ONE hit.
I would buy an iPod but went for Creative Zen because iPods have terrible battery problems. And, all those FLV videos I downloaded from Youtube plays on it.
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While I'm on a rant, how about M$ stop putting crap in Office. The next office can't export to Word Perfect? That is stupid. I'll stick with Office 2000 Pro.
Vista is most overblown piece of crap I've ever seen. 1 gig of Ram needed for it? 10 gigs of your HD needed? Are national secrets in that mess of an OS? Those requirements are ridiculous. Why not just make XP better? Other than 98SE, XP is best anyway. Apple II provided more fun.
I hope Vista is ME revisted!
I wish Apple would license its OS so M$ could be put out of its misery. iTunes works well on a Mac. Or, Linux sounds good if IBM would fully develop it and make it look cool.
Also, how about TESTING IE7 before releasing it? How hard is that? Firefox is okay, but, gee, do ya think they might create a plug-in guide for non-nerds?
Web 2.0 so far just plain sucks.
Just for info, XP SP2 had 54 updates on my new laptop. Couldn't they put all that s*** on the thing in the first place? DUH! 
As far as the Virus/Spyware/Worm making scumbags, may you all rot in hell with a Trash 80 and tons of porn that won't play!  | |
| | | shoan
join:2006-02-27
Benton, AR | Re: Provide what the market wants I think I will have to look into finding these songs and buy some even if they are crap songs to send a message that yes this is what is wanted. | |
| | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Provide what the market wants said by shoan :I think I will have to look into finding these songs and buy some even if they are crap songs to send a message that yes this is what is wanted. That suggestion makes sense if you assume the labels actually give a shit what customers want or think, but I think their behaviour for the last few years pretty much says that assumption is wrong.
In the face of overwhelming evidence that everything they publish is available for free on the internet, they have still insisted on pushing DRMed crap onto customers. They combine this with suing filesharers and that's their business plan.
I really believe the RIAA thought/still thinks they can "train" consumers to only buy their DRMed crap. The lawsuits are their "training" program.
Fortunately, reality (declining CD sales and flat/declining digital sales) is biting them in the ass and in desperation they are releasing un-DRMed mp3s into the market. I think they are still so afraid of "losing control" of their "property" however, that they are only able to take tiny steps. So they only experiment with a few songs from so-so artists.
As the market continues to collapse (I hope), they might get desperate enough to open their whole catalog as mp3s. When that happens, sales will soar and they will hopefully realize the future is un-DRMed content.
It's too bad it's going to take the near collapse of the retail music market to make this happen, but I think that's what it's going to take. | |
| | | | BladeMcCool
join:2006-10-02
Burlington, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Provide what the market wants I'm still confused as to what it is the record labels actually offer. Why do they matter? Why do artists use them? In this year 2006, with pocket recording studios, what the F do the labels actually offer? All I can tell is its some financial backing for promotion, marketing, etc ... the kind of activities that are neccessary when there is a lack of real talent.
Artists should be making money from live performances or live shows, etc. I just dont understand what value is added in a recorded bitstream. Its just a stupid (and fairly meaningless) reproduction or an original work of art.
Full disclosure: I havent traded money for recorded music since I disvered MP3 in what must have been about 1996 (a decade ago). | |
| | | AnnaS8
join:2005-05-26
Annapolis, MD
| said by shoan :I think I will have to look into finding these songs and buy some even if they are crap songs to send a message that yes this is what is wanted. I have to agree. I only hope that with the lack of DRM they also make them high quality MP3s. I have no problem paying for them then.
Though something tells me this is a "but we tried to give them DRM free music but they just pirate it more" trick
I really really hope I am wrong. | |
| markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO | They will offer it and say it was not popular enough.. Didn't they do something like this before and offer some crappy music and then claim it proved it was not a popular choice? | |
| travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Albuquerque, NM
| How Will They Track Copies? I would if they'll have Yahoo embed some sort of unique serial number or watermark in each mp3 downloaded? Otherwise it would be difficult to determine the number of "originals" that were shared. Maybe it doesn't matter... I guess it wouldn't be hard to compare the original sales against copies in circulation. | |
| ame101
join:2002-05-02
Southington, CT | ? Why don't "they" just buy out allofmp3.com | |
| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: ? said by ame101 :Why don't "they" just buy out allofmp3.com Doesnt have public traded stock. | |
| | | | MrTorben
join:2004-12-14
Tampa, FL
| just in my small opinion think back of the days when your access to music was radio or buying CD's
so you could tape radio-music for free but it was a hassle, so you ended up buying CD's anyway.
Make the DRM-free mp3's more convenient to D/L and listen to and ppl will pay for it. Isn't that how itunes sells massive amounts of songs, it is easy, ID10T proof and fast.
Compared to dealing with P2P and all it's problems(adware/virus/etc), torrents (clients, trackers, ports, rar-what?, unzip-huh?), usenet (what's that?)
Yes there will always be ppl trading tapes but even if I had friends with the CD i wanted, I still ended up buying the cd, it was more convenient.
why is allofmp3 a success, it is cheap and easy.
why do ppl still go to itunes and pay more? cause it is easier than allofmp3, more convenient from a joe.user with an ipod perspective.
charge a penny more for a cd-r and add a penny a gig for ipods just as they did for tapes and invest money in the biggest fastest and most user friendly pay-per-drmfree-song site and you will recover you supposed cd2pirate loss.
*shrugs*
they will get there....eventually | |
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yock
Eschew the False Dichotomy
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| The Recording Industry has a Problem There is an entire generation of young people who place no value on music.
I remember as a kid begging my parents for the latest cassette tapes from my favorite bands, and getting it for Christmas, my birthday, or perhaps some non-occasion. I am convinced that going without instilled in me a perceived value in that music, or anything else for that matter.
These days, kids don't have to go without. All they need to do is type the name of the latest song or artist into their file-sharing program and they download it faster than they can even listen to it. Instant gratification that required no discipline to obtain. Since there is no effort involved in obtaining music, there is no perceived value of that music, so from top to bottom the entire process is cheapened.
We can argue all day about file traders' justifications for doing what they do, but that really isn't the point. The underlying respect for the product and process just doesn't exist. In fact, I wager that it cannot co-exist with the trader mentality.
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Wiki Wiki
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge | |
| | BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: The Recording Industry has a Problem Yep people think that 99¢ is so much for a song. Back when I was a wee lad in the late 70's you get a 45 single at Camelot Music in the mall for more than 99¢. And the only thing you could play it one was a record player. No porting it to your car or some personal device or anything like that. And if you took it to a friends house you treated it like gold because if it got scratched you had to buy a another one. | |
| | | BladeMcCool
join:2006-10-02
Burlington, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: The Recording Industry has a Problem Is it a good thing or a bad thing that those days are long gone?
What is the real value of recorded music? Of a string of bits? Can a string of bits have a value? I would argue that only the original recording has an inherent value, and that value is the recording session and mixing, editing, etc that went into producing it.
If artists really want to make money they will stop making recordings and only do live performances. That in itself might add value to the recordings if they are rarer and not so ubiquitous. On the other hand, if artists are primarily interested in people hearing/seeing their art, then they should make digital reproductions available for free, from their own artist websites. That might encourage higher attendance to ..... live performances. And might reduce/eliminate some of the parasites who make their living off the work of Artists. | |
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yock
Eschew the False Dichotomy
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: The Recording Industry has a Problem It's a basic axiom of economics that people will go cheaper when there is no disparity between the products being offered. That alone is why allofmp3.com is so popular.
But that isn't what this thread is about. I'm not talking about monetary value of a song so much as the non-tangible value of music itself. We yearn for things we can't have in this world, and that tends to create a real appreciation for those things, even a reverence if the desire is strong enough. How many of us would so respect the value of a Ferrari if it were available free on the internet?
No, the type of value I mean is the respect that comes along with the discipline required to attain it. We saved our allowance for weeks to buy the new Whitesnake record, and once we had it we respected it. No way in hell was our friend down the street getting his hands on it, and no way were we dubbing him a tape. He could save his allowance to get it for himself!
That doesn't exist anymore, simply because kids don't have to save up for it. It's an important lesson not only in music, but fiscal responsibility in general. Items we desire have monetary value in this country, and circumventing that system of supply and demand undermines a lot of that for which we stand.
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Wiki Wiki
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·Packet8
edit:
December 8th, @11:21AM
| Re: The Recording Industry has a Problem said by yock :It's a basic axiom of economics that people will go cheaper when there is no disparity between the products being offered. That alone is why allofmp3.com is so popular. Absolutely not true.
AoMP3 is so popular because it offers something customers want: DRM-infection-free, high-quality music including lossless FLAC in most cases.
But that isn't what this thread is about. I'm not talking about monetary value of a song so much as the non-tangible value of music itself. We yearn for things we can't have in this world, and that tends to create a real appreciation for those things, even a reverence if the desire is strong enough. How many of us would so respect the value of a Ferrari if it were available free on the internet?
Whereas it's true, it has nothing to do with music - Ferrari is a tangible product, a copy of MP3 is not.
No, the type of value I mean is the respect that comes along with the discipline required to attain it. We saved our allowance for weeks to buy the new Whitesnake record, and once we had it we respected it. No way in hell was our friend down the street getting his hands on it, and no way were we dubbing him a tape. He could save his allowance to get it for himself!
This is nothing but the early example of the much-hated arrogant, egoistic money-centered attitude that much of the US manifest in adult age.
Thanks God if it's about to be history.
That doesn't exist anymore, simply because kids don't have to save up for it. It's an important lesson not only in music, but fiscal responsibility in general. Items we desire have monetary value in this country, and circumventing that system of supply and demand undermines a lot of that for which we stand.
On the contrary it is GOOD that kids (and adults as well) aren't subject of a handful of heavy-handed studio dictators' taste, they don't have to follow official release waves and selections and especially EXCELLENT, WELCOMED that now WE HAVE THE CHOICE to select and buy what WE ADMIRE instead of paying lot of money when we were manipulated by the one-way distribution and marketing practices of the middlemen, the parasite studios.
Praise the Lord those times are gone! | |
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Major Labels Offer Unrestricted MP3s
But what do bean counters at music companies say ?
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oh man