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story category Broadband in Gas Lines
(Insert clever pipe-dream pun here)
(old news - 11:32AM Monday Sep 11 2006)
tags: alternatives · bandwidth
The company behind Broadband in Gas (BIG) technology, Nethercom, last year threw out some gaudy prediction numbers for their ultra-wideband wireless broadband service - which they say can deliver 40-100Mbps through your gas pipes to your PC. Nethercomm claims they can deliver this speed for roughly the same price as a DSL install, or a tenth the install price of a fiber line.

To support their own marketing, Nethercomm cuddled up to a research report from "West Technology Research Solutions" (WTRS), which claimed that BIG service "may soon be provided to" 70% of the US population. Of course that's the number of potential customers served by gas lines, not any solid prediction of technology deployment.

The study predicted BIG "stands to add nearly 20 million subscribers to the overall market by 2010, as compared to an overall subscriber forecast of 455 million subscribers globally." The biggest perk, they claim, being that gas-pipes "exhibit very low noise floors, and are generally devoid of outside signal interference".

Last September, Nethercomm gathered 40+ utilities in San Diego to sell them on the technology. As far as we've heard, none of those companies has seriously pursued the technology. Many of those same companies are passing on broadband over powerline (BPL) technology, unconvinced of the ROI of getting into the residential broadband business.

But it still makes a good story; however USAToday skips much of the exposition while profiling the technology this morning. Nethercomm CEO Patrick Nunally tells the paper the potential exists for the technology to provide 6 gigabits per second worth of bandwidth per household.

"It's been a Coke and Pepsi (battle) between cable and phone companies," Nunally tells the paper. "We're in a position to come in and provide real competition."

Related:
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  4. Lafayette Unveils FTTH Pricing
  5. 'Clear' Launches In Portland Next Week
  6. Viacom, Time Warner Cable Kiss, Make Up
  7. VPN 4 Life: More Anonymity Snake Oil?
  8. Verizon's Open Development Initiative? So Far It's A Joke
Forums » Broadband in Gas Lines
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Post a:

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Gas Companies Smart to Avoid This

Natural Gas providers already make a pretty penny selling a product using older infrastructure. They enjoy a natural monopoly and steady stream of revenue. Upgrading their infrastructure to provide broadband service not only requires a significant upfront cost in terms of investment, but there is no guarantee that it will actually succeed.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

aztecnology
The Autumn wind is a Raider

join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA

Re: Gas Companies Smart to Avoid This

Sounds like another pipe dream...

calvoiper

join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA

Re: Gas Companies Smart to Avoid This

Sounds like....

B-roadband
O-ver
G-as
U-tility
S-ervice

...and you thought the Dell laptop batteries were a problem? Wait until the people who can't hook up their WiFi hotspot start trying to fiddle with the gas lines....

calvoiper
--
VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies!
Skeebo7

join:2004-11-09
Duluth, GA

Hmmm... (insert dreamy music and wavy/fuzzy video effects)

"Honey, could you PLEASE hurry up with cooking dinner and get the kids to stop running the bath.... I've got to get online and you guys are hogging bandwidth"

As for the technology itself... is there anything about the properties of methane that are conductive? How about methane plus an additive?

BIGMIKE
"I do not know with what weapons World W
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
ya right LOL! Broadband over Plastic Gas Line, I like to see them try to get that to work.
--
Type "miserable failure" in Google

printscreen

join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR

Re: Gas Companies Smart to Avoid This

I did not read the source story but what I had in mind was running a fiber cable through existing gas pipes, not transmitting an actual signal through the space inside the pipe as people seem to think here. Did I miss something?

calvoiper

join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA

Re: Gas Companies Smart to Avoid This

Uh, yes, you did.

The BiG (or BOGUS) proposals to date don't include fiber. While fiber in the gas pipe might make some sense in more urban environments to get to the building, in more rural or suburban environments it's hard to see the savings vs. burying fiber. Additionally, it would need to be bypassed around valves, meters, etc., which would be quite expensive.

calvoiper
--
VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies!

calvoiper

join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA

edit:
September 12th, @03:16PM

(oops--duplicate post deleted.)

HDN

@cox.net

Not all gas piping is plastic. It can be steel pipe, cast iron pipe, corrugated stainless steel tubing, aluminum alloy, copper or brass or plastic (typically thermosplastic). Although it's not the pipe material that matters with this BiG, it's the full spectrum of a radio wave in a closed system for the purpose of data transfer. I'm a plumber/pipefitter, not an EE, but my best friend is and he seems to think you can tune the wave to the piping, wave guiding it I see it called here. I hope it's true, though I doubt it.

bigfitch
Premium
join:2005-06-01
Murrayville, IL
clubs:
Talk about a person having a major pipe for porn downloads.

Bobcat
Volvo sucks
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ

edit:
September 11th, @09:14AM

Plastic gas pipes

EDIT: The article says this works with plastic gas pipes. Is the plastic conductive?
Semi75

join:2006-01-03
Waddy, KY

Re: Plastic gas pipes

Interesting idea but I don't quite understand how it would work. It seems an idea worth testing, who know it may be in norm in another 15 years.
BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: Plastic gas pipes

Maybe these are the TUBES Senator Stevens was talking about.

vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
·Comcast

said by Bobcat See Profile :

EDIT: The article says this works with plastic gas pipes. Is the plastic conductive?
It doesn't have to be, the technology doesn't send an electrical signal along the pipe, it sends an RF signal *inside* the pipe, with the pipe acting as a waveguide.
russotto

join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA

Re: Plastic gas pipes

Plastic won't work as a waveguide.

nightstar75

@salvagedirect.com

Re: Plastic gas pipes

Its not the pipe carrying the signal, it is the ground line that is wrapped around the pipe that will carry the signal.
8744675

join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA
Geez, sounds like they've just upped the ante for the FIOS installers to cut more gas lines. And when they do, there goes all your personal information gushing up from a hole in the ground and being spread all over the street!

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY


edit:
September 11th, @10:51AM


WVG, Wireless Via GAS
Plastic can conductive but it has to be made that why up front, and I don't think what they have in the ground now is. But as has been said Plastic by it's self can not be a wave guide.
--
The older I get the more I prefer the company of my dogs over that of man kind.

ARGONAUT
got ping?

join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN

Re: Plastic gas pipes

"Whiff-WiFi"

I think there using the plastic as jacketing to stop signal bleeding like coaxial cable.

Bobcat
Volvo sucks
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ

Re: Plastic gas pipes

I found out that plastic gas pipes are supposed to have a wire running alongside them, so the utility location folks can find the line. They must be using the wire to send the signal.
keyboard5684

join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA

Re: Plastic gas pipes

They have a wire for grounding out electricity that builds up from gas moving through the pipe. Gas moving through gas lines creates electricity and needs dissipated.
Tom517

join:2006-07-13
Greenville, SC

Re: Plastic gas pipes

Actually the wire is there so the gasline can be located with metal detectors.

vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
·Comcast

Re: Plastic gas pipes

said by Tom517 See Profile :

Actually the wire is there so the gasline can be located with metal detectors.
Ehh? Why would they want people locating them with metal detectors? "Ooh, I think I found a treasure, better get a pick axe and dig it up!"

printscreen

join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR

Re: Plastic gas pipes

said by vpoko See Profile :

Ehh? Why would they want people locating them with metal detectors?
For the service people to find the exact location of the pipe without digging. This is done with water pipes also but I have seen them using a metallic tape similar to the one placed above buried power and telephone lines instead of a wire.
Tom517

join:2006-07-13
Greenville, SC
It's actually not that easy to find with the average metal detector; which is why, most of the time, they put an RF signal on the wire.

RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest

Theoretically, a buried plastic gas line can still act as a waveguide (which is what they are trying to do here) but it would have higher losses than a copper pipe of the same dimensions.

However...this all assumes they can get it to go through the regulator and meter. No gas company in their right mind is going to connect anything on the high pressure side of the regulator.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.
adams_aj

join:2004-08-31
Smithville, MO

Propane Tank

Maybe they can fill up my propane tank with "internet"--the ultimate caching technology!
StEaLtHBuNnY

join:2002-10-12
Bergenfield, NJ

Re: Propane Tank

lol that would be hot
AdamD

join:2002-01-09
Maspeth, NY

Re: Propane Tank

ROFLMAO, it's not even April 1st yet... say "vapor" he, he, he...


Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Re: Propane Tank

I can see the RIAA getting a court order to stop someone from using his gas grill because it would destroy evidence.
--
The older I get the more I prefer the company of my dogs over that of man kind.

punker
deleted by moderator
Premium
join:2004-06-21
Palmdale, CA
clubs:
wow how fast is it 1000Gbit/s cache

herdfan
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Hurricane, WV

Plastic pipe issues

I work in the natural gas industry and there is not a utility I know of that is 100% plastic. There are sections of steel intermingled with plastic. So if it won't work through steel, it will be many years before it will work in this country.

MrBradTX

join:2001-05-23
Carrollton, TX
·RoadRunner Cable

this reminds me...

...of when the energy bubble was beginning to pop in the mid-1980s. I was working for a regional LD at the time (which has long since been gobbled into the belly of the beast). Some gas pipeline companies (*cough* Williams *cough*) discovered they could earn more money by stringing fiber through their pipeline network, than by pumping gas through it. Poof, near-instant fiber network connecting major cities.

Oleg
Bellsouth Fastaccess
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL

Re: Broadband in Gas Lines

How about water

hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs:

Re: Broadband in Gas Lines

That would be watered down internet then..:D

Oleg
Bellsouth Fastaccess
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL
No bad idea they will charge us for water than

bhayman

join:2002-01-24
Greenville, PA
But what of us that only have wells?

hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs:
·AT&T Southeast
·RoadRunner Cable
·QuantumVoice

Re: Broadband in Gas Lines

said by bhayman See Profile :

But what of us that only have wells?
guess it would be a WISHING WELL then... :D
op

join:2005-07-16
Smyrna, DE

Router Bomb

Im not too keen on having my internet go up in smoke. I could understand about going threw power lines I dont know about gas. Maybe the idea might blow up or fart on.
keyboard5684

join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
·WestPAnet Inc.
·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Router Bomb

Gas lines are far safer than electric lines.

A lot of mis-understanding on the idea.
People shooting it down more than they did broadband over power lines. To me the idea seems more feasible (gas) than over electric.

But back to the one major point, if you have gas service you probably have access to some broadband already.

furlonium
Computer Over? Virus equals Very Yes?

join:2002-05-08
Bethlehem, PA

Food!

Why does my pirated copy of Beerfest smell like fried onions and eggs?

SYNACK
Just Firewall It
Premium,Mod
join:2001-03-05
Venice, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..

Host:
Networking
Virtual Private Ne..
Netgear
ZyXEL

Makes sense to me.

All the "funny" remarks here shows that it might be difficult to sell technology to the general public if it is outside the established norm.

I think it is an ingenious idea and will work just fine! The just need to educate the public and eliminate myths and misconceptions.

No we still have to find a solution for all the households that are off the gas grid.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

yawn

If you got natural gas you live in a urban-enough area to have cable and probably DSL. Another BSey pipe, now that we have BGL where is BPL?
jesh

join:2006-08-12
Ramona, CA

Um.. what?

I live in an area with natural gas, and cannot get either DSL or cable. I for one, would be elated if they could provide this service, even if it was 2x-3x more expensive than they're saying.
SanJoseNerd
Premium
join:2002-07-24
San Jose, CA

Broadband Via Sewer

Why not use sewer pipes to deliver broadband? Just run a fiber optic line to the sewage treatment plant, install a big router next to the fermentation tanks, and you're good to go.
LazMan

join:2003-03-26
Angus, ON
·Bell Sympatico
·Rogers Hi-Speed

Re: Broadband Via Sewer

said by SanJoseNerd See Profile :

Why not use sewer pipes to deliver broadband? Just run a fiber optic line to the sewage treatment plant, install a big router next to the fermentation tanks, and you're good to go.
There are several companies already running fibre via sewer lines, using a robotic 'rat' to run the cable and fasten it to the inside of the pipe... It's a neat idea, but repairs are litterlly a sh*tty job...

Laz

whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY

Re: Broadband Via Sewer

We're selling broadband through the pipes that carry the Brooklyn Bridge cables. Every investor also gets a free share of ownership in the Brooklyn Bridge! A definite bargain.

Seriously, its a fools idea. Anyone who knows anything about RF transmission in waveguides, perhaps even 50% of college EE undergrads, knows that it won't work. Waveguides require precise dimensions to match the frequency of the wave for successful transmission, and must be highly conductive. To top it off, the plastic sections will allow noise infiltration and whopping signal loss.

It seems more about getting idiots to finance their 'trials'; make a small fortune, and move on to another scam.

fxtr
Premium
join:2002-09-15
Reston, VA
Does that mean if my sewer backs up I would have a basement full of bits. Gives a new meaning to "bit bucket".
Forums » Broadband in Gas Lines


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