 apollo80
join:2002-01-31 Richmond, VA
| Thought better of Verizon until now... I actually thought better of Verizon until this. I remember my father's business getting a letter two years ago saying that DSL prices were going to be LOWERED, or he could pay the same existing rate for double the DSL speed...his choice. (He had 768/128 and was going to be offered 1500/384 at the same price, or his price was lowered to a new lower tier).
That was the only time I ever saw a price reduction letter from anyone.
Now they're scamming to make a couple extra bucks per account and trying to be slick about it.
I have a DSL line through them and I am not happy...or fooled. | |
|
 |   FiL Premium join:2005-08-16 Silver Spring, MD
| Re: Thought better of Verizon until now... you mean Verzion is just like every other company out to make money?!
LOL@ still charging customers fees with no actual fee to pay.
Why must these conglomerates by so damn shiesty? keep it real, just bill me with the real deal:
"Were charging you whatever the hell we want, iight?!"
I think thats what their really trying to tell me...
Or how bout:
"Were going to charge you a fee that really doesnt exist. This way, we look legit and instead of you hating us, we'll "wag the dog" and create a target for you to better center your crosshairs on and make you believe "companies are trying to milk good ole Verizon."
Im here waiting on the Verizon fanboys to cry foul. But hey, come to Montgomery County, MD, and see for yaself why this company isnt what you make out it to be. | |
|
 |  |
 |  |  grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03 New York, NY | Re: Thought better of Verizon until now... Right on with that one I still think it is the governments responsibility to uphold the law on this one and prosecute for deceptive advertising. | |
|
 |  mikesco
join:2006-02-17 South Hadley, MA
| Not sure if it will do much good, but I filed a complaint with the FTC in regard to this below the line bait and switch pricing tactic. Perhaps if enough people complain it will force them to take some action or send a reccomendation to congress for a law change. Verizon has every right to raise thier prices, but it should be reflected in thier advertised price to allow consumers a fair comparison with the competition. Same goes for all others who use this below the belt tactic, | |
|
 |  |   kapil The Kapil
join:2000-04-26 Chicago, IL | Re: Thought better of Verizon until now... The FTC is useless. You'll have better luck with your state's AG. | |
|
 kdandaoc
join:2003-10-13 608052427 | question... Do all of the telcos get to dump the fusf fee?
Am I soon to see this bogus (yet predictible) fee from ATT? | |
|
 |   FiL Premium join:2005-08-16 Silver Spring, MD
| Re: question... trendsetters like Verizon qualify these fee's as LEGIT BUSINESS.
I just dont think these companies have the capacity to see what their doing is wrong and bending (figure-fouring) the rules. They see it as "business as usual".
"For any normal business, if your basic costs go up, you simply increase the prices you charge. You don't add in some random meaningless and totally unexplained "fee" to cover those costs. Unless, of course, you're trying to pretend you keep lowering prices so that you can claim to lawmakers that there really is competition in a market where there is very little."
I must say the news submitter has a keen eye for powerful quotes. 
This quote speaks volumes! | |
|
 |  DslTrblShoot
join:2004-09-23 | As of now the FUSF is dead. It wont appear anymore, and currently there is no mention of SBC/ATT charging the fee in any other form. It is simply just gone off the bill as of 8/14/06... | |
|
 JohnA Premium join:2003-09-16 Pittsburgh, PA
| Charging the wrong people It was obvious when Verizon started doing Simulated Dry Loop DSL, that they had costed it wrong. It should be in the $12 range, not $5 higher than standard DSL with phone, due to the line cost.
The answer no one is getting from them, is why not raise the Dry DSL price to where it belongs, rather than spread it across all DSL users. The people with POTS lines + DSL are already paying for a phone line. Why penalize them with costs associated with DSL for people with no phone service? | |
|
 |   liolo
@optonline.net | Re: Charging the wrong people is FIOS getting hit with same fee? | |
|
 |   braynes Premium join:2005-03-14 Waterville, ME
·Great Works Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
| "It was obvious when Verizon started doing Simulated Dry Loop DSL, that they had costed it wrong. It should be in the $12 range, not $5 higher than standard DSL with phone, due to the line cost.
The answer no one is getting from them, is why not raise the Dry DSL price to where it belongs, rather than spread it across all DSL users. The people with POTS lines + DSL are already paying for a phone line. Why penalize them with costs associated with DSL for people with no phone service?"
I think this is what there are trying to imply, the dry lines cost more so they need to charge, now two answers increase the dry dsl or charge everyone. The fact is it is an increase,the cable goes to the subscriber anyway no extra cost,no need to hook up dial tone ,so no equipment and no labor. This is an increase pure and simple. They have no Price increase to them just want more bucks for bonuses. Bruce | |
|
 |  |  JohnA Premium join:2003-09-16 Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: Charging the wrong people said by braynes : The fact is it is an increase,the cable goes to the subscriber anyway no extra cost,no need to hook up dial tone ,so no equipment and no labor. Truth is there is a dial tone on the line and a number associated with it, along with proportional maintenance and support costs. Simulated dry loop is not a lot different from a POTS line, you just can't dial out on it. | |
|
 |  |  |  |
 |  |  |  |
 |  |  |  |   Pathfinder Dazed Confused Premium join:2000-03-26 Mount Vernon, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
edit: August 22nd, @06:15PM
| Re: Charging the wrong people DSL is not a translation change. It is a physical x-connection from the split bank to the cable pair. BTW I retired from Verizon after 36 years in Installtion & Repair. -- support the Hunley | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |
 |  |  |  |  |  |   Pathfinder Dazed Confused Premium join:2000-03-26 Mount Vernon, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Charging the wrong people DSL is provided at the split bank (DSLAM) not in the switch. At least here in New York. In most cases the addition of DSL to an existing line requires 4 xconn sometimes on 3 different floors of the CO. From the OE to a tie, from the tie to the in on the split bank, from the out split bank to a tie and from the tie to the CP. Naked DSL only requires the last 2. -- support the Hunley | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Pathfinder Dazed Confused Premium join:2000-03-26 Mount Vernon, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Charging the wrong people The additional cost of Dry-Loop DSL is due to the cost involved in maintaining the circuit and cable pair. In the case of a piggy back this cost is built in to the cost of the POTS line. -- support the Hunley | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Pathfinder Dazed Confused Premium join:2000-03-26 Mount Vernon, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Charging the wrong people said by braynes :"The additional cost of Dry-Loop DSL is due to the cost involved in maintaining the circuit and cable pair" Then you feel that a cable pair going to the sub with no service DT or DSL is more profitable then using it for a dsl dry pair and charging the sub for dsl service? And I still do not see how or why you think there is an extra cost,the equipment is there the outside plant is there, leaving it dark make no money, this is just greed.At the most x-wire(the frame crew has time) Bruce No a pair with no service makes no money. But perhaps you miis the part where the DSL is a separate entity from POTS. POTS pays for cable Maitenance. Ove 1000 people in Manhattan alone. I realize that Verizon profits all go to the same place but each entity is budgeted and charged separately. Have you ever heard of Cable Maintenance? or cable failures? -- support the Hunley | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |  |   braynes Premium join:2005-03-14 Waterville, ME edit: August 23rd, @11:59AM
| Also the tie pairs should be in,perhaps ill assigned but there,if a lot of work needed to be done then some one drop the ball, either in plant or LA. O yea you ever hear of Dac or dexes? Bruce | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |
 |  |  |  |   3SGTE ST215W Premium,MVM join:2000-11-23 there clubs:
| Re: Charging the wrong people said by braynes :By the way I retired from AT&T after 28 years in engendering; most of witch was isdn and DSL. Bruce :O
What did you cause to happen or occur at AT&T? -- The alphabet is my favourite group of letters in the whole world.
| |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |
  ITGuy72 Permanently Disco Premium join:2001-11-01 New York | The sad thing is.. ..unless this gets a massive amount of media coverage hardly anyone will even notice the change. Very sneaky on VZ's part in my opinion. | |
|
 |   wwdubbia
join:2002-06-03 Clinton, NY
| Re: The sad thing is.. said by ITGuy72 :..unless this gets a massive amount of media coverage hardly anyone will even notice the change. Very sneaky on VZ's part in my opinion. I just posted this on digg.com, so maybe it'll get some legs...
digg it if you want to fight the man... »digg.com/tech_news/Verizon_Tries···_DSL_Fee | |
|
  bhan261
join:2001-02-12 New York, NY
| Speakeasy is doing it too... ...eliminating what they used to call "taxes" and now simply call "regulatory compliance fees". I guess they haven't attracted the public outcry due to their relatively small size. But it's still just so much crap.
I'm thinking about increasing the prices at my business by adding the "photocopier recovery fee" and the "coffee machine recovery fee". | |
|
 |  |
 |   av8r I'd Rather Be Flying Premium join:2002-06-14 Boca Raton, FL clubs:
| When is the last time you brought your care in for service? Weren't you charged a 'shop materials charge'? In my area, it runs about 15% - if you have an oil change or have your transmission rebuilt. -- If I am not for myself, Who will be for me? If I am only for myself, What am I? If not now, When? -- Hillel | |
|
 |
 |   FiL Premium join:2005-08-16 Silver Spring, MD
| Re: =\ my thoughts exactly. No balls. Or atleast small ones. Like last nights episode of South Park; theyve got Osama Bin Laden sized balls.
Just tell it how it is. I wonder if Verizon ever thought of ad campaign like that.
My what a breath of fresh air that would be. Exact figures on all commercials. Exact figures on REAL WORLD SPEED TESTS, not what your line can do in burst or 100% ideal situations.
We want real.
We dont want theives in the night doing fly by's in the day. | |
|
 |  |   God IN Vilseck Germany Premium join:2002-07-01 VILSECK, DE clubs: 
·T-Com
| Re: =\ said by FiL :my thoughts exactly. No balls. Or atleast small ones. Like last nights episode of South Park; theyve got Osama Bin Laden sized balls. Just tell it how it is. I wonder if Verizon ever thought of ad campaign like that. My what a breath of fresh air that would be. Exact figures on all commercials. Exact figures on REAL WORLD SPEED TESTS, not what your line can do in burst or 100% ideal situations. We want real. We dont want theives in the night doing fly by's in the day. a world where unlimited is actually unlimited ....... -- Currently stuck in a foreign country thanks to good old Uncle Sam, member of Cco 1/2 Stryker Cavalry Regiment. Sucks being attached to a cav unit when you are infantry =\ | |
|
  justbits More fiber than ATT can handle Premium join:2003-01-08 Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
·AT&T Yahoo
| Verizon Introduces New Charge-You-At-Whim Plan "Verizon Communications, Inc. announced a new service package for its wireless and residential customers that would charge them widely varying, but always high, fees every month depending how the communications giant feels at the time."
»www.theonion.com/content/node/51834
Gotta love The Onion!
--justbits | |
|
 madrhino
join:2004-07-03
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Verizon may cause AIDS&Cancer but it's OK they have FIOS I have seen people berated mercilessly in these forums for questions that were not ,shall we say,overwhelmingly pro-Verizon. There is a scary amount of people that think FIOS is so important,so necessary and so revolutionary that Verizon should be allowed to do whatever they want without any question or restrictions,just because they have the fastest internet speeds. We have already seen how Verizon treats it's customers, local government,the federal government,the competiton,small babies,etc,. To allow them to proceed towards their goal of monopoly is madness.Their almost intolerably duplicitous behavior is almost sure to get worse,if that is actually possible. | |
|
 |   dadkins Go For It Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Verizon may cause AIDS&Cancer but it's OK they have FIOS Verizon is a joke! Never wanted their services, never will! It's Verizon!
SureWest, ok! Paxio, hell yes! ??? Fiber ISP, perhaps. Verizon, Hell No!
Some of us have standards/values. YMMV. -- Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
|
  Titus Pullo I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26 | Why does Verizon Hate America? I'll bet their CEO doesn't have a Jesus Fish on his bumper 
-- "I am not young enough to know everything." Oscar Wilde | |
|
 |   FiL Premium join:2005-08-16 Silver Spring, MD | Re: Why does Verizon Hate America? "Some of us have standards/values."
Ouch. Thats NOT what Verizon wants to hear, friend.
But I Do!
Dont got the Jesus Fish but I got some orange fish crackers. | |
|
 |  |   Titus Pullo I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| Re: Why does Verizon Hate America? said by FiL :Dont got the Jesus Fish but I got some orange fish crackers. I hear ya! I was thinking of this fish for my car:
»www.evolvefish.com/fish/media/E-BlowMe.gif
But thought better of it ... some people that sport bumper-fish are apt to carry guns!
-- "I am not young enough to know everything." Oscar Wilde | |
|
  holocron Premium join:2004-06-28 Minneapolis, MN | Yeah, so... Why all the fuss over just Verizon?
Qwest charges a direct additional $5.00 for "naked" DSL.
I guess they're just more up front about it... | |
|
 |   Jodokast96 R.I.P Bassman442 Premium join:2005-11-23 Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Yeah, so... said by holocron :Why all the fuss over just Verizon? Qwest charges a direct additional $5.00 for "naked" DSL. I guess they're just more up front about it... No, Verizon also charges the extra $5 for the Dry Loop, and they are up front about it. Now they want to charge me for the lost FUSF. | |
|
 nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| once again, lack of competition it's what you get when there is no competition - ability to raise rates whenever they want.
I believe Mike@Techdirt has is right:
"Unless, of course, you're trying to pretend you keep lowering prices so that you can claim to lawmakers that there really is competition in a market where there is very little."
Our lawmakers are either very easy to fool, or more likely, incentivized to not scrutinize claims of competition too closely.
Remember jitters from shareholders over the AT&T (then SBC), discount DSL rates - until it was explained to them it didn't really lower the overall rate over a 1-2 year period?
Smoke and mirrors, baby, smoke and mirrors. | |
|
 |   Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26
| Re: once again, lack of competition
Again everyone seems to be shocked and dismayed by this.
WHY are any of you surprised? This is standard Ma Bell and business as usual, nothing more and nothing less. They KNOW you will pay because you HAVE NO REAL CHOICE OTHERWISE, for the most part.
Besides, you've been indoctrinated to fear bad stuff on your credit report and you KNOW they will report you, no matter what (because it's company "policy" and the rules), even if you dont pay .50 of what they say you owe them.
Which is why you cant get to anyone with any authority, especially since the call center is run by a third party contractor.
They will rip you off any chance they get, while giving you as little as possible, which is also standard Ma Bell, as well as business 101 corporate mentality right out of business school.
YAWN. Nothing new here. Move on. | |
|
 |  |  nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD | Re: once again, lack of competition I'm not shocked and dismayed by verizon's action - as you say, business as usual.
What I am shocked and dismayed by is how our elected representatives seem to be so easily duped. | |
|
 |  |  |   Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26 | Re: once again, lack of competition
They aren't duped. They are Lawyers and businessmen. Lawyers are businessmen and they all march to the same beat.
No. Not duped at all. | |
|
 |  |  |  |
 |  |  |  |
 BigDaddy05
join:2004-04-02 Carrollton, TX
| Provider account charge Doesn't anyone else put the following clause on their Verizon (and other providers) payment checks?
'Acceptance of this check is your agreement to a $17.50 per month fee (first three months free) to cover payment processing. After the first three months, this fee will be automatically deducted from your payment. Failure to accept this as payment in full will force you to be billed separately, along with a $32.50 invoicing fee.'
It's a shame that this can't be done with electronic payments. I wonder if I can add a fee for the envelope and stamp. Hummmm. | |
|
 |   Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26
| Re: Provider account charge "Doesn't anyone else put the following clause on their Verizon (and other providers) payment checks?
'Acceptance of this check is your agreement to a $17.50 per month fee (first three months free) to cover payment processing. After the first three months, this fee will be automatically deducted from your payment. Failure to accept this as payment in full will force you to be billed separately, along with a $32.50 invoicing fee.'
It's a shame that this can't be done with electronic payments. I wonder if I can add a fee for the envelope and stamp. Hummmm."
Actually, this isn't such a bad idea. It's the very thing they do to us and if it's enforceable for them, then it's enforceable for us.
Especially if you can print a check as part of a bomplete sheet that contains this clause, or, similar, and the check has to be stripped loose. | |
|
 |  |   Cheese Premium join:2003-10-26 Naples, FL clubs:
| Re: Provider account charge said by Fatal Vector :"Doesn't anyone else put the following clause on their Verizon (and other providers) payment checks? 'Acceptance of this check is your agreement to a $17.50 per month fee (first three months free) to cover payment processing. After the first three months, this fee will be automatically deducted from your payment. Failure to accept this as payment in full will force you to be billed separately, along with a $32.50 invoicing fee.' It's a shame that this can't be done with electronic payments. I wonder if I can add a fee for the envelope and stamp. Hummmm." Actually, this isn't such a bad idea. It's the very thing they do to us and if it's enforceable for them, then it's enforceable for us. Especially if you can print a check as part of a bomplete sheet that contains this clause, or, similar, and the check has to be stripped loose. It isn't going to be enforceable, that's wishful thinking. They are providing you a service, you are providing nothing to them except payment for their service and their TOS. | |
|
 |   Cheese Premium join:2003-10-26 Naples, FL clubs:
| said by BigDaddy05 :Doesn't anyone else put the following clause on their Verizon (and other providers) payment checks? 'Acceptance of this check is your agreement to a $17.50 per month fee (first three months free) to cover payment processing. After the first three months, this fee will be automatically deducted from your payment. Failure to accept this as payment in full will force you to be billed separately, along with a $32.50 invoicing fee.' It's a shame that this can't be done with electronic payments. I wonder if I can add a fee for the envelope and stamp. Hummmm. Tell me you are kidding and don't do this? I would love to be the lawyer for the company who gets your checks as you honestly think this would hold up in a court of law? | |
|
 |
  DSLTech
join:2000-12-30 San Jose, CA
| VZ's real intentions - read here Yes, they are sneaking in a fee and calling it a "Supplier Surcharge". However, as you can see, in the media they're blaming it on "naked DSL".
So this is the trick: Charge everyone the fee and hope they don't notice. If they do, blame it on "naked DSL", which basically VZ does not want to offer anyway. As we all know, they want customers to pay full price for the packaged service. Rather than be happy about charging full price for the "a la carte" naked DSL, they plan on waging a media war against it and getting regular customers irked at it. Their hope is to drive its desireability into the ground from a general-public perspective.
We all know that independent carriers and ISPs are very interested in Naked DSL, and VZ would be quite content in sticking a dagger in the back of Naked DSL in order to further bleed its competitors. | |
|
 |  robie88
join:2003-04-19 New York, NY
| Re: VZ's real intentions - read here It would be interesting to see if people can successfully get out of a dsl contract with Verizon due to the price increase. There was a similar thing about a year ago with a few of the cell phone company's. T-mobile was one of them. After this extra charge was initiated, people had the right to break their contract for thirty days after having received notice. If Verizon wants to change the terms, I should think you would have the same rights to walk away from any agreement you had with them. -- The best things in life are free...(after rebate and free shipping!) | |
|
 |  |  mikesco
join:2006-02-17 South Hadley, MA | Re: VZ's real intentions - read here For customers under contract they are not instituting the fee until after the term of the contract. So no you cannot get out of the contract because of this.
Mike Smith | |
|
 fiberguy My views are my own. Premium join:2005-05-20
| Bottom line on DSL Fees DSL is an unregulated service.
They can slap a "executive boardroom hooker recovery fee" on your bill and charge you for it.
The common mistake that people make is that DSL is regulated and must get approval for DSL charges like their telephone side... They Don't!
What it CAN do is drive the customer to the competitor where available.
I will say this - that "cheap" DSL doesn't look so cheap when you add all those fees, huh? | |
|
 |  madrhino
join:2004-07-03
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Re: Bottom line on DSL Fees said by fiberguy :I will say this - that "cheap" DSL doesn't look so cheap when you add all those fees, huh? It looks |
|