Utopia Gets Federal FundingGets $66 million from DOA program ( old news - 01:59PM Tuesday Aug 15 2006) tags: Fiber · municipalThe nation's largest municipal fiber build, Utopia, has scored a big win by securing a $66 million commitment from a new U.S. Department of Agriculture loan program aimed at shoring up rural broadband. The money will help speed up construction in six of the project's cities, according to the Salt Lake Tribune. Joel Wright, outside counsel for DynamicCity and UTOPIA, writes us: "This loan is a big deal, from our perspective, for two reasons:
1. UTOPIA's first loan ($85 million in July 2004) was secured by a sales tax pledge from the cities, so the feasibility of the project was not the primary basis for the loan. In sharp contrast, this second loan is secured by the value of the existing UTOPIA network and revenue it is generating -- demonstrating that the Lenders view the project itself as feasible.
2. Congress gave the RUS several billion dollars to loan out for broadband infrastructure in 2002. UTOPIA is the very first State or local government entity to qualify for an RUS loan, setting an important precedent for the financing options available to municipal networks. As we've frequently noted, Utopia offers many Utah residents symmetrical fiber broadband connections up to 15Mbps for less than $40, much to the chagrin of local incumbents Qwest and Comcast.
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
edit:
August 15th, @01:52PM
| Earmarked? One wonders if this was a Hatch earmark....
Of course, this system will now get attacked for having extensive government funding and competing with the private sector. While I'm glad to see this go forward, we'll have to look at others to "prove out" the economic sense of wresting control of the Internet from the likes of Qwest.
calvoiper
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| Re: Earmarked? U.S. Department of Agriculture loan program aimed at shoring up rural broadband. The money will help speed up construction in six of the project's cities Anyone but me notice the absurdity of a Dept of Agriculture loan for RURAL broadband enhancement going to help out deployment in 6 CITIES?
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·Packet8
| Re: Earmarked? said by TK Junk Mail  :U.S. Department of Agriculture loan program aimed at shoring up rural broadband. The money will help speed up construction in six of the project's cities Anyone but me notice the absurdity of a Dept of Agriculture loan for RURAL broadband enhancement going to help out deployment in 6 CITIES? Poor Tjunk, you should be very upset that your Comcast buddies won't enjoy their monopoly anymore...  | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Earmarked? said by kamm :said by TK Junk Mail :U.S. Department of Agriculture loan program aimed at shoring up rural broadband. The money will help speed up construction in six of the project's cities Anyone but me notice the absurdity of a Dept of Agriculture loan for RURAL broadband enhancement going to help out deployment in 6 CITIES? Poor Tjunk, you should be very upset that your Comcast buddies won't enjoy their monopoly anymore... Non-responsive reply. Want to try again?
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firephoto
KDE
Premium
join:2003-03-18
 ·Verizon west (ex G..
| Re: Earmarked? said by TK Junk Mail :Non-responsive reply. Want to try again? I'll try, how about the fact the the term "cities" is probably used to represent the zipcode one lives in.
Then there's the off chance that the major employer in these ares is agriculture. Agriculture isn't limited to the growing of good but also the people who are employed by it.
We also have the technical aspect that the infrastructure providing the services on this fiber network is probably based within the cites rather than in billy bob's barn. so they need to spend the money to expand the network to the barn, not from it.
The real answer though is you're just pissed because the government is giving money to another part of government instead of some private investors.
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Location: +48° 5' 23.40", -119° 48' 30.00" | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Earmarked? The linked article says "six cities" but mentions only five by name. With 2000 Census population numbers, they are:
Lindon 8,363
Payson 12,716
Brigham City 17,411
Centerville 14,585
Tremonton 5,592
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
| | | | | | | rockjock
join:2003-10-14
Salt Lake City, UT
| Re: Earmarked? said by calvoiper :The linked article says "six cities" but mentions only five by name. With 2000 Census population numbers, they are: Lindon 8,363 Payson 12,716 Brigham City 17,411 Centerville 14,585 Tremonton 5,592 ...all of which are agricultural cities. Although Centerville is not so much anymore. I for one am a proponent of UTOPIA and am happy to see it get this boost.
Rocky Anderson: bite me!
-rockjock | |
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Steve
R.I.P. 3B2
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Tustin, CA
| said by firephoto : Then there's the off chance that the major employer in these areas is agriculture. Agriculture isn't limited to the growing of good but also the people who are employed by it. Is there any meddling by the Dept. of Agriculture that's not justified by "addressing the needs of employees of agriculture?" line of reasoning?
Not everybody opposed muni broadband is on the take by the cable companies or the telcos.
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site | |
| | | | | | | Nuts
join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH
| Re: Earmarked? Again, the program is administered under the Rural Development Program. This programs provides financing for programs for electric, water, telecommunications projects in rural areas.
They provide low interest loans for coops or communities that are over looked by for profit companies that do not see a quick enough return on their investment.
»www.rurdev.usda.gov/index.html | |
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Steve
R.I.P. 3B2
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Tustin, CA
edit:
August 15th, @09:53PM
| Re: Earmarked? said by Nuts :Again, the program is administered under the Rural Development Program. This programs provides financing for programs for electric, water, telecommunications projects in rural areas. They provide low interest loans for coops or communities that are over looked by for profit companies that do not see a quick enough return on their investment. Why shouldn't the people who choose one set of benefits of living in a certain area (nature, clean air, no spam) bear the cost of those choices rather than expect others to pay for their taste in living arrangements?
If I live in the big city, and something in the environment about that choice is expensive (say, parking), should the rural folks subsidize that for me? | |
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John Galt
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Oceanside, OR
| Re: Earmarked? said by Steve :Why shouldn't the people who choose one set of benefits of living in a certain area (nature, clean air, nature) bear the cost of those choices rather than expect others to pay for their taste in living arrangements? Here in Oregon the urban schools actually cause a substantial negative flow of tax dollars away from the rural schools.
So I guess THAT sword cuts both ways...eh?
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A is A | |
| | | | | | | | | Nuts
join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH
| It takes a lot more money to support an urban area, than a rural. I garantee you that more of my tax money has gone to supporting those that live in cities, especially large cities, than I have ever gotten from them.
Why shouldn't I be able to get some of may tax money that I have paid back in a loan to a member owned to help me earn a better income. Which, by the way, equates back into more tax money for the urban areas to leach from me. | |
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firephoto
KDE
Premium
join:2003-03-18
·Verizon west (ex G..
| said by Steve :said by firephoto : Then there's the off chance that the major employer in these areas is agriculture. Agriculture isn't limited to the growing of good but also the people who are employed by it. Is there any meddling by the Dept. of Agriculture that's not justified by "addressing the needs of employees of agriculture?" line of reasoning? Not everybody opposed muni broadband is on the take by the cable companies or the telcos. I'm sure they choose the dept. of agriculture to funnel these broadband funds through because the majority of agriculture jobs are minimum wage jobs. This makes it easy to target low income areas that large internet providers with the resources to build the infrastructure won't touch due to it not being profittable enough when only the single area is taken into account.
I see no reason for any geographic area of the country to be underserved by broadband and these financial incentives from the government help to provide these services in the rural areas. I'm all for a free market where there's no limitations on what one can or cannot do. I also see broadband or any connection to the "internet" as a utility and not something extra. I can choose to not have it or use it but it should be available no matter where one is located. It's no more or less important than a wired telephone.
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LilYoda
Feline with squirel personality disorder
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Mountains
| said by TK Junk Mail :Non-responsive reply. Want to try again? Why should one bother posting constructive answers to your remarks, since 9 times out of 10 you back out of the discussion after your initial post? (See Firephoto's post just below yours, for exemple).
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John Galt
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Oceanside, OR
| said by TK Junk Mail :Anyone but me notice the absurdity of a Dept of Agriculture loan for RURAL broadband enhancement going to help out deployment in 6 CITIES? This area IS largely rural, despite the fact that people live in "cities".
Insofar as this is a "fiber" project, there is little reason to install it in areas that have a lesser population density.
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A is A | |
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BloodRoses
The Purple Faerie
Premium
join:2003-03-17
·Cox HSI
| said by TK Junk Mail :Anyone but me notice the absurdity of a Dept of Agriculture loan for RURAL broadband enhancement going to help out deployment in 6 CITIES? Americans heavily abuse the word "city", to them it is any place with a population greater than 1,000. Of course in modern times this number is absolutely absurd. That to me, and the rest of the world, is a "town". A city is closer to a population of 1 million or more. So cities of the Northeast would go "Washington D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia, Newark, New York City, Providence, Boston". The whole world makes fun of us for this, even the Brits call us "septics" for this very reason.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Earmarked? said by BloodRoses :The whole world makes fun of us for this, even the Brits call us "septics" for this very reason. Somehow I doubt that the rest of the world disapproving of the way we use the term "city" is going to change the way we use it. In fact, if more Americans knew of this disapproval, we would probably end up calling individual rooms "cities."
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Tancredo 2008! | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul - I Didn't Vote For Either
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| said by BloodRoses :said by TK Junk Mail :Anyone but me notice the absurdity of a Dept of Agriculture loan for RURAL broadband enhancement going to help out deployment in 6 CITIES? Americans heavily abuse the word "city", to them it is any place with a population greater than 1,000. Of course in modern times this number is absolutely absurd. That to me, and the rest of the world, is a "town". A city is closer to a population of 1 million or more. So cities of the Northeast would go "Washington D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia, Newark, New York City, Providence, Boston". The whole world makes fun of us for this, even the Brits call us "septics" for this very reason. Wrong. The term "city" is commonly used for places with a population of 250,000 or more. There are also Towns, Boroughs, Townships, Villages, etc... It all depends on the form of government, not really population.
-Tzale
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| | | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| The private sector is free to compete across the Utopia network with the other service providers. Utopia is only the infrastructure. Frankly this is exactly what USF fee's should be going towards. NOT private networks. Private networks should be built/upgraded with PRIVATE money. Otherwise they're really public networks, and should only garner their present "owners" a management fee.. nothing more.
This is by far the least ridiculous thing the DoA does. Paying way over market price to burn millions of tons of grain to keep tiny farms solvent certainly ranks higher in my book. | |
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AnonymousPerson
@optonline.net
| The biggest problem is that this gross misappropriation of tax player's money is unconstitutional. If a state government did this, it would be one thing, but the federal government doing this is another. This is an unconstitutional expansion of power by the federal government and it opens the door to tyranny and totalitarianism, as if the federal government is allowed to ignore a piece of the Constitution on any grounds, then nothing keeps it from ignoring any other piece of the Constitution and our perception of whatever we believe will prevent it from such action is only a perception and it will do nothing to stop the federal government from doing whatever the heck it wants. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Re: Earmarked? And which Constitutional provision does it trample, pray tell?
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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dadkins
Merry Whatever
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | Hello! Bring that killer fiber this way! | |
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diehardspeed
Premium
join:2003-05-14
Salt Lake City, UT | I love my Utopia Fiber! I have it, I love it, and I will never leave it! | |
| | Nuts
join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH | Re: I love my Utopia Fiber! The utopia web site lists 4 service providers. Which one do you use. Is it hard if you want to switch providers | |
| hoyleysox
join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA
·tw telecom
| Can't choose NOT to pay for it. The phone company cannot auction away your house if you don't want to pay for a phone. But those cities in Utah can auction away your house if you don't pay the the "Utopia" portion of your property taxes, even if you don't subscribe to their fiber service. | |
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AndYourPoint
@199.72.x.x | Re: Can't choose NOT to pay for it. This matters because?
Same with the roads, the schools, the local parks, and about 1 billion other services that are tax funded that could cause you to lose everything you own. | |
| | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
edit:
August 15th, @03:42PM
| Did you read the article? It was originally funded by a special SALES TAX, and now by the infrastructure/revenue generated by the system itself.
Of course that would invalidate your entire argument.
(Just for the logic impaired, that means there is no "utopia portion of your property tax") | |
| | | hoyleysox
join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA
·tw telecom
| Re: Can't choose NOT to pay for it. If you had read the article, you would have noticed:
"Of the 18 original UTOPIA member cities, 11 eventually pledged taxpayer money to partially back the estimated $350 million in bonds and loans that would be needed to finance construction of the network." Cities fund bond measures through sales and property taxes.
I can't get fiber in the metropolis of long beach ca, but my federal tax dollars are helping the fair hamlet of Tremonton, population 6286, to get fiber through loan guarantees.
It's interesting that cities would choose to fund such an expensive endeavor despite unfunded pension obligations, but that is for a different thread... | |
| | | | Nuts
join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH | Re: Can't choose NOT to pay for it. You can't get fiber, but how many other options do you have for broadband. | |
| | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| So you took a quote, and then added your own property tax statement to it? "Cities fund bond measures through SALES and property taxes". I already said it was funded by a SPECIAL SALES TAX. Municipal Bonds have VERY specific funding sources stated, unless they're unlimited general obligation bonds.
Your federal tax dollars go to much worse things than fiber, and since they're loans and not subsidies, you should be happy they weren't instead diverted to AT&T as just free money to, umm, someday in the future, maybe, get a phone line to Township 91 in northern Maine. | |
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Michieru
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
·Speakeasy
edit:
August 15th, @03:36PM
| ? "agriculture |ˈagriˌkəl ch ər| noun the science or practice of farming, including cultivation of the soil for the growing of crops and the rearing of animals to provide food, wool, and other products."
So uhm why is this there responsability? | |
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Unregistered User
@69.244.x.x
| Re: ? Agriculture means more than the farms themselves. Communications is quite important to farmers. You don't just grow a crop, load it on a truck, and take it to market. You also have to stay on top of what the commodity markets are doing so you can know when you should and shouldn't sell. You also need to keep track of weather forecasts, insect infestation reports, etc. This stuff isn't trivial. I grew up in a farming household, and it can be one of the most stressful professions you can go into.
Also, if you want to go just a bit farther afield, farmers depend on the goods and services in their local communities, and, in case you haven't noticed, people in rural communities are leaving in droves. Why? Because industry is leaving, and people have to follow the jobs. And why is industry leaving? There are many reasons, but lack of infrastructure is one of them. In places like that, information infrastructure is crucial. If you're the superintentant of a small school district, or even a small college, how do you offer courses that you don't have the facilities to teach locally? Distance ed is one way, but to make that work, you need broadband.
I'm not saying this is all directly linked to agriculture, but it's needed to support the places where many farmers live and work. | |
| | older dog
Premium
join:2005-06-09
Norwich, NY
| said by Michieru :"agriculture |ˈagriˌkəl ch ər| noun the science or practice of farming, including cultivation of the soil for the growing of crops and the rearing of animals to provide food, wool, and other products." So uhm why is this there responsability? Tech is as important to a rural area as it is to an urban area. | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul - I Didn't Vote For Either
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: ? said by older dog :said by Michieru :"agriculture |ˈagriˌkəl ch ər| noun the science or practice of farming, including cultivation of the soil for the growing of crops and the rearing of animals to provide food, wool, and other products." So uhm why is this there responsability? Tech is as important to a rural area as it is to an urban area. Yes, the difference is the people in rural areas need it mainly for work. The people in urban areas want a faster connection to download porn. 
-Tzale
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FACTS NOT PROPAGANDA | |
| zako234
join:2005-12-04
Great Neck, NY | tubes the government is funding a series of tubes eh? | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Get your hand out of my pocket. You people pride yourselves on being self sufficient. You protest your tax dollars going to welfare recipients. You people slop at the public trough wile pretending you’re above it all.
Where is all of weeping and gnashing of teeth from Teletruth over this government handout? | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL | It is a loan. Calm down folks. It's a loan ! | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul - I Didn't Vote For Either
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: It is a loan. said by JSRoman :Calm down folks. It's a loan ! Yeah, really. It's really sad when Americans are bad mouthing the government for giving money (loans) to AMERICANS! It's almost as bad as when people complained that New Orleans was not the responsibility of the Federal Government for aid. Come on! This is AMERICAN LAND and AMERICANS we are talking about. I don't see you all bitching about the $3,000,000,000 the United States gave to Israel last year (and THAT WAS NOT A LOAN!) for bombs, missiles, tanks and fighter jets.
So.... Let me ask. Where do you want YOUR tax money going? America or Israel?
-Tzale
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»www.stop-us-military-aid-to-israel.net/
FACTS NOT PROPAGANDA | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: It is a loan. said by Tzale :So.... Let me ask. Where do you want YOUR tax money going? America or Israel? Israel is fighting our war with Iran for US.
The loans are at 4%. I would like a sweet heart deal like that. Guess who else has their hand in our pocket? Cablevision is also slopping at the public trough with a 4% loan. Cablevision picks my pocket and puts the money in Cablevision executive's pockets by back dating stock options. If there is a government hand out slime balls will steal it.
»www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2006/01/3···9508.htm
When is Verizon going to get to slop at the public trough so they can wire Netcong? | |
| duckslayer
join:2004-04-09
Maumelle, AR
| USDA's current duties In 1862, when President Abraham Lincoln founded the U.S. Department of Agriculture, he called it the "people's Department." In Lincoln's day, 58 percent of the people were farmers who needed good seeds and information to grow their crops. Today, USDA continues Lincoln's legacy by serving all Americans. USDA remains committed to helping America's farmers and ranchers. But we also do much more....
USDA leads the Federal anti-hunger effort with the Food Stamp, School Lunch, School Breakfast, and the WIC Programs.
USDA is the steward of our nation's 192 million acres of national forests and rangelands.
USDA is the country's largest conservation agency, encouraging voluntary efforts to protect soil, water, and wildlife on the 70 percent of America's lands that are in private hands.
USDA brings housing, modern telecommunications, and safe drinking water to rural America.
USDA is responsible for the safety of meat, poultry, and egg products.
USDA is a research leader in everything from human nutrition to new crop technologies that allow us to grow more food and fiber using less water and pesticides.
USDA helps ensure open markets for U.S. agricultural products and provides food aid to needy people overseas.
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