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story category Interview: Fighting AT&T
Peter Collins, IS Manager for Geneva, Illinois
(old news - 04:23PM Thursday Jun 08 2006)
tags: exclusive · telco · municipal
Though one is using more fiber, both Verizon and AT&T have plans to upgrade their networks and offer video services. While they may not like them - Verizon is signing video franchise agreements with each community they want to serve.

AT&T meanwhile is arguing that existing franchise agreements do not apply to "Project Lightspeed", and any town or city that disagrees with this premise is being sued. Peter Collins, the Information Systems Manager of Geneva, Illinois, is on the receiving end of one of those lawsuits.

Peter has a unique view of the nation's broadband infrastructure, as his city tried twice to wire itself with fiber and offer residents fiber triple-play services, only to be beaten back by deep pocketed incumbent PR campaigns. We discuss his city's past battles, the current lawsuit, and Geneva's difficult technological dance with regional incumbents AT&T and Comcast.

BBR: Voters have twice decided to vote against your city's efforts to deploy fiber and IPTV services to your community. Can you briefly explain your role in that process, and explore what you believe happened?

PC: As most on BBR already know, citizens of Geneva, St. Charles, & Batavia had a municipal broadband question placed before them on the ballots in April 2003 and November 2004. In both referenda, approval by the voters would have brought a fiber to the home system run by a collective "TriCity" municipal entity to all that wanted to take service from the cities. That system would have offered cable television, high-speed internet & phone services initially, with later ideas being alarm services direct to our 9-1-1 center and remote meter reading for our electric and water utilities. It would have been a competitive option for our communities, not a requirement.

As all three cities each own their electric utilities (you pay the city not ComEd), we own our utility poles and have the trucks and linemen to support our outside plant. In addition, our electric linemen in all three cities are also trained in fiber splicing - we already run municipal fiber networks serving the needs of local government buildings, electric & water utilities, and our local school districts.

BBR: And the public was interested?

PC: Prior to the first referendum, the cities had done extensive in-house surveys of both the residential and business communities regarding interest in such a project and found a desire for such services. So the cities put out an RFP for a feasibility study to assess the costs and required market share to develop such an offering for commercial and residential uses. As part of that study, more surveys were conducted. Again, they showed a desire for services from the citizenry. Based on the results of that study and the continued support from the community, we went to ballot in April 2003.

BBR: Can you clarify the financials behind the plan?

PC:The entire plant would have been built across the three cities over the course of about 3 years - from engineering to rollout. The build costs would have been backed by General Obligation bonds - a potential property tax risk - at a total cost of $62 million. The issue failed at the polls by a 60/40 split.

BBR: But there was a second push -

PC: The citizen group that pushed the issue via education, yard signs, etc. - remember a city can not advocate "yes" or "no" once the item is on the ballots - brought the issue back in November 2004. While cities have the power to put an issue on the ballot via a city council vote, a citizen's group must collect signatures to bring a question to a vote. That is exactly what Fiber For Our Future did for the 2004 vote.

They, not the cities, took the initiative and did the legwork to bring the issue back to the polls. They, not the cities, got the original consultant to update the feasibility study to show that the dollar amount had actually dropped to about $55 million. Moreover, most importantly, Fiber For Our Future, rewrote the referenda questions to remove the possibility of any tax-backed financing for the build out. The cities were free to pay for the buildout any way they liked, but they could not put the taxpayers up as collateral.

Even with that, the issue lost at the polls by about a 55/45 margin.

BBR: But there was a lot of scare-mongering going on by incumbents, as we've reported. Can you go into that?

PC: How do I explain this? The citizenry, in both votes, thought there was a substantial tax risk or, in many cases, an actual tax increase. The main source of that logic was force-fed to our communities by SBC & Comcast (see examples here, and this video of an AT&T exec downplaying fiber -Ed.) The superior marketing power of these two companies squashed the under funded output of Fiber For Our Future.

One could certainly argue that the marketing prowess actually went in favor of the citizen's group that spent $4,325 and got 45% of the vote to the combined reported SBC/Comcast spending of $282,064 to achieve 10% more.

BBR: With it behind you, what do you think Batavia, St. Charles, and Geneva could have done differently?

PC: As I mentioned earlier, once the issue has been placed on a ballot, the cities themselves are prohibited from spending taxpayer funds to push a "yes" or "no" vote. All the cities can do is inform: "this is what the project is and here's what it aims to achieve." Elected officials and citizen's groups are obviously allowed to voice their views as they see fit. They are free to call press conferences to dispute misinformation. This is an area in which Lafayette, LA and their citizen's groups really played, and continue to play, the game right.

When the incumbents say something outlandish to confuse your citizenry, I think you've got to come right back and tell your community, "Actually, here's the real deal". You have to keep coming back again and again with the truth, not "truthiness", because you certainly can't outspend the incumbents. I think Lafayette might have known the "Chicago way" better than we did.

BBR: Did you see greater deployment or service improvement in your area by Comcast or AT&T after the vote?

PC: On the Comcast side of the fence, we went from having no cable modems to full coverage in all three cities. Of course, we also got the price increases as well.

As for AT&T (then SBC), we saw increased DSL rollout. The local POP is in Geneva so we were relatively covered, but Batavia & St. Charles were really hurting. That has largely changed now.

I live near downtown Batavia. It used to be that I was unable to get either a cable modem or DSL. Now I can get both.

BBR: Historically, Comcast and AT&T have a long backstory in your neck of the woods, could you elaborate on that?

PC: The current AT&T was made up of the merger of SBC and AT&T. In our area, SBC was the result of the absorption of Ameritech into the SBC family. Remember the Ameritech has already had a venture into the video arena with their Americast offering and failed.

Likewise, the former AT&T also gave up and sold of all of its local AT&T Broadband holdings to Comcast.

Now that the two companies - that have both failed in video delivery in the past - have merged to become the "new at&t", are we supposed to believe they'll get it right this time?

BBR: As far as "this time" goes, your city recently imposed a 180-day build-out moratorium on AT&T "Project Lightspeed". Can you explain why?

PC: The long and short if it is:

We believe AT&T is a competitive video service and is required play by the same rules to which other terrestrial based providers in our city (in Geneva's case - Comcast) have to adhere.

We believe that we have a responsibility under the Illinois Level Playing Field Statute [65 ILCS 5/11-42-11(e)] that we have a duty to defend our existing franchise holders. (More detail here -Ed.)

Since AT&T does not seem to have a desire to follow all the requirements of Geneva's video franchises, most notably a "full coverage" requirement, and will not currently agree to such a provision, AT&T will not be allowed to offer those services in Geneva.

BBR: You're now being sued by AT&T for your position. Can you explore any direct contact you've had with AT&T? Has the negotiation consisted of lawyer letters, or human-to-human contact?

PC: We have had direct discussions with AT&T. They have their outlook and we have ours. Obviously, we think our view is correct and in the best interest of our city.

In addition, Geneva is a member of the Metro West Council of Government, which is in turn a member of the Metropolitan Mayors Caucus and under that organization's umbrella, the larger group has had several discussions with AT&T.

In fact, the Mayor's Caucus issued a letter last week to all the 272 municipalities it serves concerning the status of negotiations. We hope that the larger group with be able to convey to AT&T how serious this issue is to all cities.

BBR: Other cities in California were similarly sued. Some, such as Lodi, decided to back off the legal battle. Others, like Walnut Creek, persisted, and have at least seen initial success in the courts. Will Geneva be willing to take this legal battle as far as they can?

BBR: We expected this path to be a potentially rocky one, and as such, did our legal homework upfront. Geneva sought advice from some of the top telecommunications lawyers in the country (see this pdf -Ed). We feel our case is sound, and more importantly, we believe it is vitally important that the cities defend the rights of all of their citizens equally. It would seem problematic, at best, for a city to enter into an agreement that allows for, and actively uses the power of the city to redline its own citizens.

As to the lengths Geneva will go, that will largely depend on the advice of counsel and ultimately the elected officials.

BBR: As other neighboring cities are sued by AT&T, do you have plans to work with them, legally?

PC: It appears this may be the best approach for all involved, as all the lawsuits are nearly identical. Four of us (North Aurora, Roselle, Wheaton & Geneva) are being represented as a group.

BBR: AT&T is clearly running local ads claiming you're impeding "progress & competition". Are you having success this time around educating locals on why you've decided to fight AT&T's notion that they need no franchise agreement?

PC: Most of the ads are largely transparent to our communities. In Geneva, we've been through the broadband referenda in the past, so their behavior here is really nothing new. AT&T continues to play the same games as they have in the past. We continue to publicly repeat our stance. And, in the end, we're simply upholding the law in the State of Illinois.

BBR: What happens if AT&T simply decides to move on and leave the area un-served? Would the city consider making a fresh run at building their own fiber network?

PC: I suppose you could look at it this way. If AT&T passes us by while we're upholding the law, we're really no worse off than we are now. In Geneva's case, we don't have direct cable competition as it stands currently. We certainly welcome AT&T trying to provide a competitive service to our citizens, but it all comes down to everyone being treated fairly - both the businesses that operate in our town, and most importantly, our residents.

As to a fresh run, that's a question for our elected officials. If they feel the time is right to move in that direction, it's always an option because of our existing electric utilities.

From a geek point of view, AT&T is still attempting to deploy equipment that is sub par to the offering that we, the cities, suggested in 2003 and again in 2004. Fiber to the Home is the Holy Grail and AT&T doesn't think we're worth it.

Related:
  1. AT&T To Offer Citywide St. Louis Wi-Fi
  2. Qwest: Community-Run Fiber 'Harms Consumers'
  3. Qwest Next-Gen Broadband Plans Leaked
  4. Qwest Earnings Report
  5. AT&T Blocking Competitors in CT
  6. Seattle Eyes $500 Million Fiber Network
  7. AT&T Prepares To Launch U-Verse In Tennessee
  8. Monday Morning Links
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast

Summary of interview; as I see it

City proposes FTTH
AT&T & Comcast opposed
Proposal comes up for vote
AT&T & Comcast outspend city and supporters before vote
Vote goes against city
The 2nd vote follows same steps as above
AT&T wants to rollout Lightspeed
City mad at AT&T and says no
AT&T sues
Citizens get screwed

And all will be moot if US House passes HR 5252(and is also passed by Senate) as discussed in this BBR news item from today: »House to Vote on Net-Neutrality COPE Amendment
because the bill provides for a national franchise regulation that would override local city rules.
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DaSneaky1D
Tell me, where is your father?
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
·Charter Pipeline

Re: Summary of interview; as I see it

Do you believe that AT&T's product is an IP service that happens to serve video?

Or, do you believe that AT&T is offering video services that simply uses IP as part of their transport means (in conjunction with their fiber, xDSL, and copper transport)?
--
:: my trivial ramblings ::

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast

Re: Summary of interview; as I see it

said by DaSneaky1D See Profile :

Do you believe that AT&T's product is an IP service that happens to serve video?

Or, do you believe that AT&T is offering video services that simply uses IP as part of their transport means (in conjunction with their fiber, xDSL, and copper transport)?
A rose is a rose... What AT&T is offering is a video service and under current rules should be subject to a franchise agreement with the city. So I don't agree with AT&T's position.

BUT
,
and you knew a but was coming right?,
I don't think a city government should have the power to force rules on a provider as to who they serve. So, if and when HR 5252 is passed(it includes national franchise rules), AT&T would owe money to the city, but the city could NOT deny a franchise based on which neighborhoods AT&T chooses to serve.
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DaSneaky1D
Tell me, where is your father?
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join:2001-03-29
The Lou

Re: Summary of interview; as I see it

Do you feel a city government should enforce Illinois Level Playing Field Statute [65 ILCS 5/11-42-11(e)]?
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:: my trivial ramblings ::

nekote

join:2000-12-16
Hopkinton, MA

Re: Summary of interview; as I see it

Shouldn't the State of Illinois be enforcing state law?
Shouldn't the statue be written (or amended?) in such a way to make that possible?
Why are the cities being sued and spending money for legal defenses, rather than the state?
The state's legal pockets are much deeper and much more comparable to corporate giants.

Do the city governments have to consider deliberately taking some provocative action - say, explicitly granting an un-Level franchise - that would violate the Level Playing Field statute, so as to get their city butts sued by the state for violating the state law?

A round about way to back into getting a Court ruling to enforce the Level Playing Field in a way they actually want?

Just trying to figure another way to skin the cat, so to speak.
--
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Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all other forms of government. - Winston Churchill

cbrigante2
Cubs 20??
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join:2002-11-22
North Aurora, IL

Re: Summary of interview; as I see it

There are no deep pockets in the State of Illinois.

insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

I don't think a city government should have the power to force rules on a provider as to who they serve.
Why? A city should set whatever rules they want. If they mandate that any company that wants to roll out a new service needs to offer it to everyone, that is there right. The town will either win with companies offering products to everyone, or lose with no companies offering anything because they don't want to offer the product everywhere. In the end, as long as any money can be made if a product is rolled out to every house, the companies will still do it. It's just angers them when a small rural fraction will cost as much to setup as everyone else combined.
Personally I think more towns need to start requiring full deployment by telephone and cable companies. Otherwise the sparse areas will never get service.

DaSneaky1D
Tell me, where is your father?
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join:2001-03-29
The Lou

Re: Summary of interview; as I see it

Cable companies already do. It's called franchise agreements
dadarkside
Premium
join:2006-05-20
The Moon

Re: Summary of interview; as I see it

said by DaSneaky1D See Profile :

Cable companies already do. It's called franchise agreements
Cable companies don't set these, these are negotiated with the municipality in which the cable company seeks to do business.

In fact, Cable companies dn't LIKE franchise agreements, they are often used as a tool to extract EXTRA services from the cable company.

DaSneaky1D
Tell me, where is your father?
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
·Charter Pipeline

Re: Summary of interview; as I see it

Don't split hairs. Read what I wrote in context with what insomniac84 See Profile wrote.
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:: my trivial ramblings ::
ross

join:2000-08-16
·Digizip

Au contraire, cable companies LOVE franchise agreements. Those agreements were/are their butress against competition. While they haven't liked providing local access channels and public programing, they have made a killing by having exclusive agreements territorializing the market.

They really don't like the Telcos having unfettered access to what was formally their exclusive domain.

oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
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Corona, CA

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

...the bill provides for a national franchise regulation that would override local city rules.
Citizens get screwed
ross

join:2000-08-16
·Digizip

Re: Summary of interview; as I see it

said by oliphant See Profile :

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

...the bill provides for a national franchise regulation that would override local city rules.
Citizens get screwed
Succinct summary!

anonpronman

@optonline.net

Hold on to your horse mr confusion spreader.

If should look like this.

City proposes FTTH
AT&T & Comcast opposed Customer is already screwed as they aren't going to BUY the vote or MISLEAD the public.
It's taking advantage of people that don't know any better and it's 235^&&& SICKING!

Proposal comes up for vote
AT&T & Comcast outspend city and supporters before vote
Vote goes against city
The 2nd vote follows same steps as above
AT&T wants to rollout Lightspeed
City mad at AT&T and says no
AT&T sues
Citizens get screwed

KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
clubs:
·Speakeasy

Good to see true blue conservativism still exists! Smaller Federal Government, allowing States and local communities to decide their own politics, is still the foundation of conservati...
oh, wait, nevermind.
KM
--
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Corona
It's cool, I'm takin it back
Premium
join:2000-03-14
San Antonio, TX

Of course

bash bash bash - everyone bash the big bad telco!

Why not let them lay the fiber, while you figure out the video issues? Video was just one of the services they wanted to offer on this transport.
--
-Corona

Boat For Sale

oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA


edit:
June 8th, @03:13PM

Re: Of course

Because part of the franchise agreement is often who the provider would have to serve within the community; purpose being protecting the citizens from the telco cherry picking residents who are convenient to serve while ignoring those who aren't.

Also the franchise agreement may have requirments as to minimum levels of service and customer service, again to protect the consumers.

A franchise agreement is a small cost for the telco to be granted a money tree by the government who owns the dirt the wires go in, out, through and around.

A muni infrastructure solution would solve all of this as then content providers would have to compete without the B.S. of who gets served and who doesn't.

The telcos want their cake and to eat it too. Screw them. If they want to make money in that community, they should have to follow some very basic rules which include franchise agreements.

marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO

said by Corona See Profile :

bash bash bash - everyone bash the big bad telco!

Why not let them lay the fiber, while you figure out the video issues? Video was just one of the services they wanted to offer on this transport.
AT&T won't lay the fiber if they can't offer video.
Broadband is a money loser.
Video is a cash cow.
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ross

join:2000-08-16
·Digizip

Re: Of course

said by marigolds See Profile :

Broadband is a money loser.
Video is a cash cow.
So far, exactly the opposite for Telcos.

marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO

Is broadband really making money for the telcos or just revenue?
It always seemed that voice was still the both the big revenue and profit margin for the telcos. There involvement with video is still too new to really judge that yet, but dish and cable show that it works pretty well (even if the providers are taking the biggest piece of revenue).
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cbrigante2
Cubs 20??
Premium
join:2002-11-22
North Aurora, IL

Good Job

This was an informative read.

I wanted to send out a "good job" to officials like Mr. Collins who continue to take their responsibilities to the citizens seriously.

I've noticed some of the negative AT&T ads in the Daily Herald in recent months, and try to do my part with word of mouth to counter this practice (every little bit helps!).

Keep up the good work Mr. Collins.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Basis for Comparison

quote:
And, in the end, we're simply upholding the law in the State of Illinois.

Ok I'll bite. Are there any towns in Illinois, preferably of the same sort of government structure as Geneva, that took the other path and let AT&T go ahead and build their network without requiring a franchise agreement?

If this is the case, then there might be a basis for Illinois law allowing for such a deployment to take place.
--
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insomniac
Oh Yeah
Premium
join:2002-09-22
Naperville, IL
clubs:
·AT&T Midwest

Re: Basis for Comparison

This is all so new that I don't think anything's really operational, or even close to it. A Lightspeed box (or what appears to be one) just popped up in my neighborhood in Naperville, but I have heard no rumblings from the Naperville City Council about a construction moratorium or a franchise agreement. There's a new development west of me in Sugar Grove that's supposedly being built to support Lightspeed from the ground up; I don't know the status of it.

As I've said before, it will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.
--
If everything seems to be going well, you've obviously overlooked something.

Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL

Re: Basis for Comparison

Aurora, IL will consider joining the moritorium cities.

»www.suburbanchicagonews.com/beac···D_S1.htm

I liked this part of the article:

"Marc Blakeman, regional vice president of external affairs for AT&T, said his company is willing to reach out to municipalities, but so far, the municipalities haven't reached back.

"I would hope that, if a city had concerns, they would give us a call and talk about them," he said. "I question what the purpose of a moratorium is when they can just talk to us."

Blakeman said that, in each recent case, AT&T has asked for meetings with city officials, but only the city of Geneva has taken them up on it."

This is total BS and an outright lie. Several Mayors and City Staff have met with Mark Blakeman on more than one occasion. Mark showed up with his AT&T lawyer to several meetings in Oakbrook, IL to discuss this issue.

For those who think this is a "personal grudge" against AT&T from Geneva, guess again. Geneva, IL is not the only city in America trying to uphold the rights of their citizenry to not be redlined. What we have here are city governments protecting the rights of it's citizens and the rights to have control over their ROWs.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Basis for Comparison

said by Octopussy2 See Profile :

For those who think this is a "personal grudge" against AT&T from Geneva, guess again. Geneva, IL is not the only city in America trying to uphold the rights of their citizenry to not be redlined.
If the Geneva city government isn't careful, then the entire city might just end up being redlined.
--
Tancredo 2008!

Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL

Re: Basis for Comparison

That is certainly their perogative. Move along.

If the govt. didn't stand up, and it allows redlining to occur, then local govt. is not doing it's job. They cannot, in good faith, support redlining. I can see it now....citizens who cannot get served by AT&T's Lightspeed when it comes to town, sues local govt. for allowing them to be discriminated against.

Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
I believe St. Charles will allow AT&T to redline their residents.

anonymostest

@38.115.x.x

Why is ATT even bothering?

Just send the trucks deploying fiber down here to Joliet/Plainfield, I won't fight you. Why bother fighting 1 community right now when there are so many communities that haven't had deployment yet? Stupid idiots.
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission

Re: Why is ATT even bothering?

said by anonymostest :

Why bother fighting 1 community right now when there are so many communities that haven't had deployment yet? Stupid idiots.
Because EVERY successful build out done by a CITY makes the Tel/Cablecos look bad. Must nip the problem in the bud at all costs least the PEOPLE discover that big corporations have no concern for the people/community, just the upper crust of the company and a few top shareholders.
--
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cbrigante2
Cubs 20??
Premium
join:2002-11-22
North Aurora, IL

said by anonymostest :

Just send the trucks deploying fiber down here to Joliet/Plainfield, I won't fight you. Why bother fighting 1 community right now when there are so many communities that haven't had deployment yet? Stupid idiots.
I love these type posts. I agree with you, have AT&T go down to Joliet and start to cherry-pick who gets served and who doesn't since you don't seem to think a franchise agreement is needed. Cross all your fingers and toes and pray you are part of the served, then wonder why you thought you wanted this already outdated technology so bad.
cwh

join:2006-05-14
San Antonio, TX

Re: Why is ATT even bothering?

said by cbrigante2 See Profile :

said by anonymostest :

Just send the trucks deploying fiber down here to Joliet/Plainfield, I won't fight you. Why bother fighting 1 community right now when there are so many communities that haven't had deployment yet? Stupid idiots.
I love these type posts. I agree with you, have AT&T go down to Joliet and start to cherry-pick who gets served and who doesn't since you don't seem to think a franchise agreement is needed. Cross all your fingers and toes and pray you are part of the served, then wonder why you thought you wanted this already outdated technology so bad.
Why should they build out what is needed when not enough will purchase the service to make it profitable or even pay for itself. Maybe those areas that cant afford the should just get free service? Who do you want to subsidize this development.

cbrigante2
Cubs 20??
Premium
join:2002-11-22
North Aurora, IL

Re: Why is ATT even bothering?

said by cwh See Profile :

said by cbrigante2 See Profile :

said by anonymostest :

Just send the trucks deploying fiber down here to Joliet/Plainfield, I won't fight you. Why bother fighting 1 community right now when there are so many communities that haven't had deployment yet? Stupid idiots.
I love these type posts. I agree with you, have AT&T go down to Joliet and start to cherry-pick who gets served and who doesn't since you don't seem to think a franchise agreement is needed. Cross all your fingers and toes and pray you are part of the served, then wonder why you thought you wanted this already outdated technology so bad.
Why should they build out what is needed when not enough will purchase the service to make it profitable or even pay for itself. Maybe those areas that cant afford the should just get free service? Who do you want to subsidize this development.
AT&T argued the private model to help shut down the municipal vote. All subsidizing of this build-out should come from AT&T.
NewMariner

join:2005-06-24

When all Else Fails......follow the money.........

Seems to me that Geneva is just pissed that their voters voted against their FTTH program due to them not wanting to pay for it. And you cant tell me that a city government is going to build something and not charge its citizens for it...

They saw they could make some extra money by providing FTTH but the taxpayers didnt approve it, so now they want to force AT&T into providing services to them and force AT&T to pay fees to do so...

Sorry Mr Collins that is completely wrong as broadband is NOT A UTILITY. NOR IS CABLE..Phone service, gas, electricity and water are the only UTILITIES which MUST be provided to everyone....BROADBAND is not among that category. I hope AT&T buries ya'll.

See 12 replies to this post
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast

who cares?

It's too bad this area has people too ignorant to understand the situation. Having a municipal fiber system is the best thing to have. With any of the incumbents it's going to be an unregulated duopoly/monopoly.

Yes, I would like fiber.

Yes, I think these companies should get franchises.

Yes, I think it sucks that AT&T (in Illinous) and Verizon (in montgomery county, MD) are pouting and taking their ball home because the cities won't change their rules.

without competition, it's all going to suck in the end, with either crappy support or high prices or both. Not to mention it will take a very long time before 100M symmetrical is provided by incumbents (unless it's at an outrageous price).

our gov't fiddles as broadband in the U.S. burns

cbrigante2
Cubs 20??
Premium
join:2002-11-22
North Aurora, IL

Re: who cares?

Amen to all of your points nasadude. I really think this is the biggest problem (voters not knowing the real issues on the table).
campinfool

join:2006-02-24
Austin, TX

ROW

The thing about the ROW is mute. Lightspeed areas already have existing plant in the ROW. I doubt the city can say "hey you can't can't lash a new fiber on your existing strand or pull one through an existing duct". Those people are morons.
TheGhost
Premium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL
clubs:

Re: ROW

said by campinfool See Profile :

The thing about the ROW is mute. Lightspeed areas already have existing plant in the ROW. I doubt the city can say "hey you can't can't lash a new fiber on your existing strand or pull one through an existing duct". Those people are morons.
I actually heard that at&t needed to put more/additional equipment out in the field to get the fibre close enough to the homes. There is still the issue of use though. Aren't at&t and the Cablecos paying some form of rent to the cites for the ROWs (poles, etc). If at&t tries to string additional wires along the poles, aren't they using more of the cities property than they paid for? Kind of like paying to rent one storage locker, but then taking a second for free. Just another point of view on the situation.
campinfool

join:2006-02-24
Austin, TX

Re: ROW

Most aerial placements are usually on joint use poles owned by the power companies. If additional lines need to be run in the air, multiple cables can be lashed to a single strand. To the cities involved I don't see much difference in at&t running a new fiber in the ROW for lightspeed versus running a 50pr cable to feed a new strip center.

Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL

Re: ROW

Actually, the ROWs are all owned by cities. If we are talking about pole attachments...Batavia, Geneva, and STC, IL all own their own poles as they all have their own electric and/or water utilities as well - for over 100 years.

linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State
·CenturyTel Inc.
·Cebridge Connections
·Vonage

Been There Done That Before

Before SBC, before the Sherman Act that tore a giant telco apart, there was Bell Telephone Company, hard wired black phones, 8 party lines, twisted copper pairs, operators, headsets and switchboards, and real honest to goodness service. The only thing Bell - let's call it what it is - excels at in addition to lies and FUD is twisted pairs. There is no service.

In the last 20 years I've experienced Bell lock out FCC mandated competition because they could. I experienced their failure to provide promised upgrades in a timely manner to no less than 6 different ISPs in three states because they could (they are all defunct now). I ,most recently experienced Bell's unmitigated greed as they increase fees while service degrades.

My family has been a Bell customer for 100 years. At one time I was paying $150 per month for DSL, local and Long distance, and the cell phone plus $40 for cable. I finally got a belly full of the had service, lies and arbitrary fees imposed by Bell because they could, and dropped all but local service. Even then the rep lied when she said my long distance would be active until 6 pm. With one push of her little finger the connection ended. Poof. Bell is a circus, magic act, This dog and pony show disconnect DIS-service only cost $7.50.

Now, Instead of paying $65 to Bell I pay $25 for Vonage. Soon I will pay $5 for a local 800 number and drop Bell altogether which will be a savings of $14. And I gained by switching to Cox. The barely faster than dial-up DSL from Bell I paid $60 for, became $40 for 4MB/512, for a grand total savings of about $50 over Bell's bundled services. and I have identical services.

Peter Collins is absolutely correct. He's fighting an uphill battle.

As for one more ineffective law that is ignored, House Bill ???, might trump city code, but I doubt it will trump state law. Illinois will challenge it citing states right to protect its citizenry.
--
Mac: No windows, No gates, Apple inside
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

how to determine if its a cable co

If its a new service, that customers purchease to replace or wind up disconnecting the local cable co's service infavor of the new service, and it uses town ROW (not wireless), its a cable company and needs a franchise, nuff said.
barn25

join:2005-11-17
Springfield, IL
·Comcast
·Insight Communicat..

what they are trying to do

what you dont newmariner is this what at&t wants to do is charge whatever and whoever they want for their services. for example if you neighbor had dsl and you didnt because the company said they wouldnt service you how would you feel? Would you then feel like saying that the muni's just want more money? Places that run their own equipment dont make you get extra services you dont want or need like phone serice in order to get dsl. What they are doing is simply saying we are the only ones that can let you get on the internet and we can charge you what ever we want.

Mr Anon

@chcgil.ameritech

Compromise?

Does anyone know if something has been offered like a free lease with a time limit?

Say let them come in and build and do as the please for three years, after that they must renegotiate and possibly up deployment. By that time they have the ability to make sure the system is going to bring in a profit and enough customers and after they do they must build and build within a limit.
Forums » Interview: Fighting AT&T


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