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join:2002-01-02
Fleeting | Nebraska I'm sure they'll get right on that.... | |
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The Beer
I Love It When A Plan Comes Together
Premium
join:2001-07-24
Omaha, NE
clubs: | Re: Nebraska The cable co's walk all over Qwest here, Cox has offered phone service for almost 7 years now.
Those stats are not a big shocker, you will never see 80% saturation unless Qwest is willing to run a DSLAM for each customer in the ag areas. | |
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The Beer
I Love It When A Plan Comes Together
Premium
join:2001-07-24
Omaha, NE
clubs:
 ·ViaTalk
| Re: Nebraska I think it's a little unrealistic to expect them to offer DSL to a house 20 miles from the CO.
There are wireless options available (Non satellite) to these people.
If we want to use the USF to provide DSL to every home in Nebraska then be it. They chose to live in the stix and it comes with it's consequences, we don't subsidise their Gas to drive to the grocery store, why in the heck should we subsidise their DSL?
It would be interesting to see that statistic on what % of Nebraska CO's are equipped with DSL, I'm sure it would be rather high. | |
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OinkOinkOink
@comcast.net
| Re: Nebraska ... They chose to live in the stix and it comes with it's consequences, we don't subsidise their Gas to drive to the grocery store, why in the heck should we subsidise their DSL? The heck with the rural farmers. We don't need their gobdam food and the sodbusters don't need dsl. I'll just get my food and beer from city stores. | |
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stomp357
join:2003-04-13
Lake Charles, LA
 ·Suddenlink
| Re: Nebraska said by OinkOinkOink :The heck with the rural farmers. We don't need their gobdam food and the sodbusters don't need dsl. I'll just get my food and beer from city stores.
I hope your being sarcastic! Unless Star Trek technology is here, and we can replicate food, I needs them. Even fake meat (Soy burgers) come from farms. | |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| said by The Beer  :I think it's a little unrealistic to expect them to offer DSL to a house 20 miles from the CO. It isn't just the rural farming areas, many of which Qwest doesn't even serve anyway; Qwest has rather poor DSL deployment even in large cities such as Denver and SLC.
In general, the Baby Bells (BellSouth is somewhat of an exception) are far worse when it comes to rural DSL deployment than are smaller independent phone companies. Some of it has to do with network design issues, but a lot of it has to do with the fact that Bells don't believe rural areas are profitable (hence Verizon selling off entire states and Qwest selling off large parts of its service area) while rural areas are independents' bread and butter.
-SC
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"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend | |
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The Beer
I Love It When A Plan Comes Together
Premium
join:2001-07-24
Omaha, NE
clubs:
·ViaTalk
| Re: Nebraska I don't know if I agree.
I don't think there is a house in the Omaha metro where you can't either get Qwest DSL or Qwest TeleChoice Cable in addition to Cox HSI.
Business hurt since in Telechoice areas Qwest is not permitted to install DSL, such as my office. Qwest did not install TeleChoice in Businesses.
One item of note was that Cable penetration is 91% according to that survey, so these people just may not have DSL but only 9% of Nebraska can't get cable internet.
Even that is skewed since I bet some of that 9% is serviced by DSL and not Cable.
So I thought I would grab a random BFE Nebraska town, Spencer, NE pop 541.
Yep, Has DSL »www.nntc.net/nntcnet.htm | |
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Tsume
join:2004-02-23
Johnson City, TN | quote:
There are wireless options available (Non satellite) to these people.
Umm, no? | |
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The Beer
I Love It When A Plan Comes Together
Premium
join:2001-07-24
Omaha, NE
clubs:
·ViaTalk
| Re: Nebraska I must be mistaken, thought we were talking about Nebraska.
I'm sorry that unpopulated area is missing out on the Broadband revolution, their population must be really mad about that!
Wait, that area is not populated?
Case in point, why service an unpopulated area?
Yes the world deserves "High Speed Internet" who says DSL has to be the medium?
Unless you live in a rural, wide open area in BFE WITHOUT a clear view of the southern sky you have options, that is my point.
DSL is a bad technology to serve rural areas, it's just the way it is.
This page shows 90 cities that have WIRELESS coverage alone in Nebraska »www.bbwexchange.com/wisps/nebraska-wisps.asp
This is just one wireless map I found, the arrow is pointing to that 500 person town I named above with DSL.
I'm sorry you don't need DSL to have High Speed Internet. | |
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TigerNutz
Laissez les bons temps rouler
Premium
join:2000-12-23
Little Rock, AR | Arkansas I live in Arkansas (not by choice!).
I don't blame AT&T for poor penetration here. Why expand when most of the people here don't even own a computer! | |
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razzorr
join:2002-01-31
Fort Smith, AR
·Cox HSI
| Re: Arkansas I live in Fort Smith, Arkansas. We have DSL but you can not get it in all of the city. No RT's any ware. Forget about 6M you will always be out of range. COX cable is the thing to have here if you need speed.
Funny note Lavaca a small town has Fiber also note they are not AT&T like the rest of the state. | |
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Unregistered User
@69.244.x.x
| Re: Arkansas I hear ya. I used to work for an ISP in Fort Smith. Part of the problem we had selling DSL was the phone companies. If someone lived in SBC territory, they had a decent chance of getting it, but many folks were served by GTE or Alltel, and those companies didn't seem to even know what DSL was.
But that was in 2000. I hope they've become a little more savvy since then.
BTW, you didn't happen to work for IPA, did you? | |
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razzorr
join:2002-01-31
Fort Smith, AR | Re: Arkansas No I did not work for IPA.
Not much has changed from 2000 just lucky to even be able to get DSL here only being the second largest city in Arkansas  . | |
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| | bchris02
join:2006-05-25
| Arkansas is probably the most computer illiterate state in the US. Its not that people can't get broadband, its that most people don't even know what it is! Very few people here have computers and if they do, they happily pay AOL $25 per month for dialup thinking thats the only way to access the internet on their "Winders 95" machines. | |
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| missileman
join:2006-05-07
Little Rock, AR | I don't think you know what you're talking about.....Unless you're in the Military, you live here by choice. | |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
 ·CenturyLink
| Re: Arkansas said by TigerNutz :said by missileman :I don't think you know what you're talking about.....Unless you're in the Military, you live here by choice. obviously you're not married 
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rob_in_chatt
Premium
join:2004-09-17
Chattanooga, TN | dsl dsl sux anyway. why waste time using it? cable is far batter. | |
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wdoa
join:2001-10-16
Spencer, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: dsl said by rob_in_chatt :dsl sux anyway. why waste time using it? cable is far batter. Depends where you are. At my home in Massachusetts I can choose between Charter HSI and pay $42 a month for 3MB/256 service, or pay $32 month to Verizon for 3BM/768 service. How in this situation would DSL suck? | |
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| sonnybadbutt
join:2001-05-11
Elizabethtown, KY
| said by rob_in_chatt :dsl sux anyway. why waste time using it? cable is far batter. What comment does this have to do with DSL penetration? Fact is in most of Kentucky if DSL is not there neither is cable. So show the relativity of your comment. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | Are you basing that opinion on the experience you had from provider which offered you DSL? Or was that just pure flame-bait? | |
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TigerNutz
Laissez les bons temps rouler
Premium
join:2000-12-23
Little Rock, AR | please don't feed the troll | |
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bokamba
Chengdu Rocks
Premium
join:2002-04-05
Falls Church, VA | Not a surprise... With the possible exception of Nebraska (I don't know too much about it), those states are relatively rural and poor. It's not surprising the DSL penetration is low. Too expensive to deploy and people can't afford it anyway. | |
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herdfan
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Hurricane, WV
| Re: Not a surprise... said by bokamba :those states are relatively rural and poor.....Too expensive to deploy and people can't afford it anyway. While I agree with your first statement, the second bears no relativity to the first. Back before DBS, almost every trailer in WV had a large satellite dish. Just becasue people are poor doesn't mean they won't spend what they have on entertainment. So before they get their teeth fixed, they buy beer, cigarettes and pay for satellite. They will pay the satellite bill before the electric bill.
And since computers are a form of entertainment, people will pay for it before other necessities. | |
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TigerNutz
Laissez les bons temps rouler
Premium
join:2000-12-23
Little Rock, AR
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T Southwest
·Cox HSI
1 edit | Re: Not a surprise... said by herdfan :said by bokamba :those states are relatively rural and poor.....Too expensive to deploy and people can't afford it anyway. While I agree with your first statement, the second bears no relativity to the first. Back before DBS, almost every trailer in WV had a large satellite dish. Just becasue people are poor doesn't mean they won't spend what they have on entertainment. So before they get their teeth fixed, they buy beer, cigarettes and pay for satellite. They will pay the satellite bill before the electric bill. And since computers are a form of entertainment, people will pay for it before other necessities. but they would have to learn how to read first! | |
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stomp357
join:2003-04-13
Lake Charles, LA
·Suddenlink
| said by herdfan :said by bokamba :those states are relatively rural and poor.....Too expensive to deploy and people can't afford it anyway. While I agree with your first statement, the second bears no relativity to the first. Back before DBS, almost every trailer in WV had a large satellite dish. Just becasue people are poor doesn't mean they won't spend what they have on entertainment. So before they get their teeth fixed, they buy beer, cigarettes and pay for satellite. They will pay the satellite bill before the electric bill. And since computers are a form of entertainment, people will pay for it before other necessities. I being an example. I'm disabled, and on SSI. DSL is $37.95 for 3Mbit/384kbps here. My budget is very lean, but I pay the $37.95 every month. However, I "sacrifice" not having premium cable channels (Basic $15.00 a month cable TV). Most people in the low income areas here have Direct TV, or digital cable. Most have cell phones, and landlines as well + drive vehicles I will never drive.
I often wonder why they call this "low income" areas. | |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| said by herdfan :While I agree with your first statement, the second bears no relativity to the first. [...] And since computers are a form of entertainment, people will pay for it before other necessities. IMO, there's a much stronger correlation between "no computer" and "rural" than "no computer" and "poor"...people in rural areas tend to be less educated, older, and more religious and thus more fearful of technology in general. The lack of broadband take-up in rural areas has as much to do with people not having a computer as it does with people not being able to get it because it isn't offered.
As for the comments about dishes and so on, it does seem true that the poor, in both rural and urban areas, spend more on TV and (probably more importantly) more time in front of the TV than the affluent. I do know a handful of people who don't watch TV at all and every single one of them is rather well-educated and well-off.
-SC
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"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend | |
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| achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| With Indiana being in the list, I wouldn't say that Indiana is poor. I live in a small town (pop 300) in rural Indiana, and many people have computers and would like DSL/Cable, but it is not an option to many.
Once you get outside towns here, neighbors are usually spaced 2 ~ 5 miles apart. Deploying technologies like DSL or Cable (and most of these folks don't even have CATV) can be very expensive.
While most the folks that live in these areas would like to have DSL or cable modem service, they completely understand the reasons for it not being available and are fine with it.
It amazes me how so many people are up in arms because DSL/Cable penetration rates are so low in rural areas, especially when they do not live in a rural area. They tend to not understand that we accept it as a way of life out here and generally have other, more important things to worry about.
There are other options, often not worked into the numbers, like wireless services and satellite.
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Bring back chicken and potato chips - Vote Perot! | |
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herdfan
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Hurricane, WV
| Re: Not a surprise... said by achuchma :Once you get outside towns here, neighbors are usually spaced 2 ~ 5 miles apart. Deploying technologies like DSL or Cable (and most of these folks don't even have CATV) can be very expensive. I am sonewhat surprised that with broadband almost becoming a needed commodity like electric or phone, that the government hasn't stepped in and added a "charge" to everyones cable bill to help expand service to unserved areas. After all, they did it with phone service. | |
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join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| Re: Not a surprise... said by herdfan :I am sonewhat surprised that with broadband almost becoming a needed commodity like electric or phone, that the government hasn't stepped in and added a "charge" to everyones cable bill to help expand service to unserved areas. After all, they did it with phone service. Many people in rural areas don't view it as a needed commodity.
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Bring back chicken and potato chips - Vote Perot! | |
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| | | stevephl
join:2000-11-27
Colorado Springs, CO
·Comcast
| If these people truly want Internet access they have dialup, it still works if they in fact have a computer, next there is satellite Internet.
It is not the governments business to take from those who do and give to those who do not. This increasing dependence on the "Government" needs to stop. If you want something work and get it. There are always libraries. Internet access isn't be all that people think it is. It is only important because you want it to be. If we spent more time with our families instead of parked in front of the boob tube or the computer monitor we would not be having so many problems with our youth. Any tax on one group so that you can enable another group is plain wrong. | |
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stomp357
join:2003-04-13
Lake Charles, LA
·Suddenlink
| Re: Not a surprise... said by stevephl :If these people truly want Internet access they have dialup, it still works if they in fact have a computer, next there is satellite Internet. It is not the governments business to take from those who do and give to those who do not. This increasing dependence on the "Government" needs to stop. If you want something work and get it. There are always libraries. Internet access isn't be all that people think it is. It is only important because you want it to be. If we spent more time with our families instead of parked in front of the boob tube or the computer monitor we would not be having so many problems with our youth. Any tax on one group so that you can enable another group is plain wrong. But there are hundreds of thousands of these people who are willing to pay for broadband, just like you, & me, but it's not offered. No ones trying to get free broadband. They just want it offered. I know lots of people who live in the city where DSL is offered, but while their neighbor across the street has DSL, they can't get it. WTF? | |
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herdfan
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Hurricane, WV
| Re: Not a surprise... said by stomp357 :They just want it offered. I know lots of people who live in the city where DSL is offered, but while their neighbor across the street has DSL, they can't get it. WTF? That is exactly my situation. A year ago we bought another house on the same street. The street ends at a cul-de-sac and has 9 houses on it. At the old house, I had DSL. The new house which is closer to the CO by 100' or so does not.
The reason: My current house is on a fiber trunk from the CO to the RT, my old house wasn't. Now Verizon could easily move my pair to copper, but they won't. To get DSL at my old house I had to order an additional line specifying that it had to be all-copper. I wouldn't sign off on it until it was completed correctly.
Cable is now available, so I went with it after the move. But if it starts to act up, I will order another all-copper line. | |
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asdfdfdf
@xtraport.net
| This is important data... Dave burstein doesn't pull numbers out of his ass, his data has a reputation for being very sound.
Coverage is not as extensive as many believed. Even more importantly it states that coverage expansion has been stalled for quite some time. What money the telcos are spending does not appear to be going, to any extent, toward further broadening coverage.
This contradicts the trickle down theory and should cause us to reconsider whether we can continue, indefinitely, to simply wait for the market to bring about universal service. It looks as if the divide that remains will be long term. | |
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| PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| Re: This is important data... said by asdfdfdf :
Coverage is not as extensive as many believed. Even more importantly it states that coverage expansion has been stalled for quite some time. What money the telcos are spending does not appear to be going, to any extent, toward further broadening coverage. COverage is not as extensive as Burstein used to believe. For years, he kept reporting that Verizon was at 90% coverage, when those of us customers in the field knew that wasn't true.
I knew Verizon wasn't expanding coverage anymore when they installed a brand spanking new RT in my neighborhood, but the field crew said we weren't getting DSL because Verizon wouldn't let them install the DSL line cards in the rack.
We're just outside the COmcast footprint, so Verizon thinks they don't have to worry about losing us as customers. | |
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93254336
Weapons Of Masturbation
Premium
join:2001-10-20
| I'm surprised that the percentages are that high... ...since many States have large rural areas where the "local" CO is way beyond the reach of DSL for subscribers.
Even in NJ, which many consider an "urban area" (although much of it is quite the opposite, especially in the northwest and southern areas of the State), this is a problem. In my neighborhood, most houses don't qualify for Verizon DSL service due to loop length issues. Obviously, one solution is to deploy RTs, but that's expensive, especially now with a more "definitive" solution (i.e. FIOS) looming on the horizon.
Unfortunately the rural areas that would benefit most from RTs or FTTH will most likely be the last ones to get it, since the return on investment isn't really there.
- Dan
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"That which does not kill us makes us stranger." | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: I'm surprised that the percentages are that high...said by 93254336 :Even in NJ, which many consider an "urban area" (although much of it is quite the opposite, especially in the northwest and southern areas of the State), this is a problem. NJ is near or at the top in the nation for both cable and DSL. But like you say, even NJ has some areas with problems.
»www.dslprime.com/a/FCCbroadband2005.xls Table 14
New Jersey
xDSL Availability Where ILECs
Offer Local Telephone Service
87%
Cable Modem Availability Where
Cable Systems Offer Cable TV Service
97%
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Join Red Room Forum
BLOG tkjunkmail.blogspot.com
My Web Page | |
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| | OCP
Premium
join:2004-10-11
USA | Re: I'm surprised that the percentages are that high... It's very funny to me that Alaska has more DSL than Arizona. Nice link Tkjunkmail. I don't know how accurate those numbers are, but it wouldn't surprise me. | |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| Re: I'm surprised that the percentages are that high... said by OCP :It's very funny to me that Alaska has more DSL than Arizona. It doesn't surprise me in the least.
Alaska's population is concentrated in cities and villages that range in size from a few dozen to a few hundred thousand, and so loops tend to be short and it's relatively easy to do DSL. (Getting local loops in the bush villages connected to the rest of the Internet is another story altogether...the only connection most of them have to the rest of the world is satellite.) Furthermore, all local phone companies in Alaska are local independent companies (ACS is far and away the biggest, but there are others) and have a commitment to the market, unlike the likes of Verizon and Qwest where rural lines are something to be sold off and not invested in.
-SC
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"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend | |
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93254336
Weapons Of Masturbation
Premium
join:2001-10-20
| Also note that just because ILECs "offer" DSL service doesn't mean that everyone served by those COs will qualify for DSL service.
Case in point: my local CO is located a town away, so virtually everyone in my area has loop lengths of well over 18K+ feet.
Does my local CO offer DSL? Absolutely. Can all subscribers get it? Nope.
- Dan
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"That which does not kill us makes us stranger." | |
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Pictor Guy
join:2004-06-21
Sammamish, WA | FCC Numbers flawed? Aren't the FCC numbers flawed anyway? I thought numbers were really much lower and the FCC considered an area served by DSL if one person in the zip code had access to it. | |
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| PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| Re: FCC Numbers flawed? said by Pictor Guy :Aren't the FCC numbers flawed anyway? I thought numbers were really much lower and the FCC considered an area served by DSL if one person in the zip code had access to it. The old numbers were based on zip code. The FCC wants to use numbers as optimistic as possible, because the 1996 Telecomm Act states that if broadband penetration isn't progressing, that would automatically trigger addtional regulatory requirements, and that's something the current party that runs D.C. is idealogically opposed to. These new numbers are more accurate. | |
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viperc0n
join:2005-09-12
Omaha, NE | I Wish Yes i live in Omaha, NE and even Omaha has bad dsl availability. It sucks for us, Omaha isan't rural an is the only city worth being called a city in Nebraska. Cox is ok but i would prefer more dsl options and fios anyday over cox. | |
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daveberstein
join:2002-07-15
New York, NY
| Dave Burstein here Folks
Thanks for the feedback. Just wanted to stop by and update the fellow you criticized the FCC data.
Yes, the FCC data were generally garbage on broadband. But this survey changed that. Showed 24% of the country couldn't get DSL, and I've confirmed the data with the telcos.
Much worse than I had thought, or previous telco statement implied.
db | |
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fatness
subtle
Janitor
join:2000-11-17
fishing | Re: Dave Burstein here Since you're here Dave, I've got a question. What do the percentages mean?
If 24% of the country can't get DSL, does that mean DSL is available to 76% of households? Or 76% of what?
Thanks. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Dave Burstein here said by fatness :Since you're here Dave, I've got a question. What do the percentages mean? If 24% of the country can't get DSL, does that mean DSL is available to 76% of households? Or 76% of what? Thanks. Some see the glass 1/4 empty, some see it as 3/4 full. | |
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EnzonE
join:2000-03-23
Indiana, PA
| PA in bottom quarter I just thought I'd point out the keystone state's 74% after taxpayers shelled out billions to have Verizon wire state-wide fiber by 2007 (not even DSL) and since the PUC backed off the requirements a couple years ago Verizon's in no hurry; wonder where the billions of $ went to those Fios hummers raising gas prices? just a hunch.
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Adelphia 4M/384k Activated September 3 2005.Picked up a connection on September 10.Picked up my wireless connection on September 20. | |
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darrinjh
join:2000-07-23
Offutt A F B, NE
| Omaha DSL I live on the outskirts of Omaha, NE in the suburbs. I can get Qwest phone service but cannot get their DSL service because the CO is not wired for DSL. Because of this I get my phone and broadband service through Cox Cable. I would like to get phone and broadband service through Qwest because it's a lot cheaper than Cox (when services are bundled). I am not in a rural area and all the homes here were built in the 80's to present. If Qwest would wire the CO they would have a very large population they could offer service to. Perhaps there are technical issues to deal that would cost too much to overcome, I can't see any other reason they would pass on a good opportunity to expand their service. | |
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spepper
join:2003-11-09
USA | and it's not because...... and it's not because the techology does not exist-- it is simply NOT being deployed by these companies who tout the use of DSL-- until they make it available to ALL telco subcribers who currently have phone service, their words mean NOTHING! | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs: | When? When will we get some posts from people that don't have a financial stake in the hustle. | |
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States With Lowest DSL Penetration
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