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3G Wi-Fi router market flooded
(old news - 01:35PM Wednesday Apr 05 2006)
tags: wireless · hardware · bandwidth
As EV-DO and HSDPA service gets more broadly deployed, sharing that service with your pals via a Wi-Fi router is getting more popular. That's much to the chagrin of companies like Verizon Wireless, who send out warning letters should you be a little too generous with your bandwidth. "Broadband access is designed for individual customers," recently noted Brenda Raney, a Verizon Wireless spokeswoman. "When customers use unauthorized devices to share the service, they are in violation of their service agreements."

Customers and hardware vendors aren't listening.

Early 3G routers like the $600 Junxion Box were expensive, and not exactly feature-rich for the price, supporting only 802.11b. Slowly cheaper and more robust products began to emerge, like the $200 Kyocera KR-1, though that router only worked with Sprint & Verizon EV-DO. Perhaps the most interesting choice was the pyramid shaped $400 Top Global 3G Phoebus, which supported all sorts of 3G (and 2.5G) flavors.

Now, if the CTIA show in Vegas this week is any indication, the market is about to be flooded.

Motorola is on the cusp of releasing the NC800 3G Wi-Fi router, according to data that sprung up this week on the FCC website. Linksys today unveiled the WRT54G3G-NA, their own entry into the 3G Wi-Fi router market, as did a company by the name of Axesstel .

With the flood of new routers expect a symmetrical flood of new complaints from wireless providers, who will likely crack down on such sharing. It should remind users of 2002, when cable providers engaged in neighborhood flyovers (AT&T broadband called it "broadband bootlegging") and sent out nasty-grams to stop the evil menace that was Wi-Fi.

Related:
  1. 3G iPhone June 9
  2. Motorola Offers White Space Device For Testing
  3. Comcast To Deploy Femtocells
  4. How To Tether The 3G iPhone
  5. T-Mobile’s First HSDPA Handset Goes Live
  6. AT&T Wants HSDPA/LTE In....Everything
  7. New Docs Show FCC Glossed Over BPL Flaws
  8. Group Takes Aim At Special Access Pricing
Forums » Share Your 3G Air
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averagedude

join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ

If you can't beat down your customer...

then threaten them for using your product...
They should at least recognize that the market really wants something and turn those lemons to lemonade. The folks who make routers obviously recognize an opportunity, why can't the wireless folks.

GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
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Avalon, NJ
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Re: If you can't beat down your customer...

said by averagedude See Profile :

then threaten them for using your product...
They should at least recognize that the market really wants something and turn those lemons to lemonade. The folks who make routers obviously recognize an opportunity, why can't the wireless folks.
Perhaps you can explain how this is an opportunity for the 3G wireless providers.
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Data Ho
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Rockville, MD
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1 edit

Re: If you can't beat down your customer...

3rd party accessories make the 3G wireless products much more attractive, to many more people.

G_Poobah

join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY

Well, lets see now.

There is obviously a market for these kinds of devices, otherwise noone would make them. So part one of a successful business venture exists:

#1: There is a market for it
The technology exists today, and it can be created cheap enough to sell to people.

#2: The product is saleable and profitable
They can make the product BETTER than the 3rd party providers! They could make the cell phone plug in directly. They could build it into a cell phone. They could make an overall better experience for the end user than any 3rd party could.

#3: They could make it better
Oh, wait.. there's a problem. Hmm.. ahh, yes, GREED. See, they won't fill a market need, because they don't have MONOPOLY rights to it anymore! See, as soon as a 3rd party (i.e. competition) exists, they can no longer set down the terms of service. Hmm.. Guess the old school concept of monopoly makes them too stupid to change. The ONLY thing stopping them is they are too dumb and too greedy to change their methods of making money. In this, they share the same monopolistic views as the **AA's.
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join:2005-02-13
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1 edit

Re: If you can't beat down your customer...

Of course, the opportunities that this will offer for small businesses, such as restaurants, coffee shops, hairdressers and whatnot will be ignored by those who genuflect at the altar of the incumbents.

For the incumbents are wise, in profusion, whereas we are merely one-fodder-units.

Note to corporate lickspittles: If these incumbents were smart, they would embrace this. Verily, they are deploying 3G at a speed closer to that of glacial movement. What this will do is allow Joe Sixpack to sit with Jack Sixpack in a 3G-enabled establishment, when Jack whips out his neat 3G toy and proceeds to swap bits and bytes. Joe gets an immediate sense of turgor in his nether-regions for such k3w3l technology, grows obsessive, and runs out and gets him some of that 3G for hisself.

Think: viral marketing.

GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
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·Comcast

Re: If you can't beat down your customer...

said by TScheisskopf See Profile :

If these incumbents were smart, they would embrace this. What this will do is allow Joe Sixpack to sit with Jack Sixpack in a 3G-enabled establishment, when Jack whips out his neat 3G toy and proceeds to swap bits and bytes. Joe gets an immediate sense of turgor in his nether-regions for such k3w3l technology, grows obsessive, and runs out and gets him some of that 3G for hisself.

Think: viral marketing.
An intelligent reply, unlike some of the above. Your scenario is certainly a possibility and one that the 3G providers should consider.
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achuchma

join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL

said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

said by averagedude See Profile :

then threaten them for using your product...
They should at least recognize that the market really wants something and turn those lemons to lemonade. The folks who make routers obviously recognize an opportunity, why can't the wireless folks.
Perhaps you can explain how this is an opportunity for the 3G wireless providers.
Exactly...Cellular towers are far more finite than copper networks, especially when it comes to the assignment and division of frequencies.

But, who cares if wireless customer's can't use their phones...I know someone here that will be more than happy to throw out the "greed" card here...Sadly, he will not point it where it needs to go, which is at the consumer.
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Fatal Vector

join:2005-11-26

Re: If you can't beat down your customer...


As far as cell towers go: Seeing as most of them that I see are veritible trees of antennas (sometimes as many as 6 one above another), it would seem to me that there is plenty of bandwidth available. All they have to do is cooperate with each other. And, lets not forget all the fees, and charges for each little "feature" you add on, like text messaging, etc.

But then, since deployment is glacial, I'd have to think it's because they are caught in that same constant "upgrade" trap that computer buyers and corporations used to be in with computers. You remember, the constant small speed increments? What ever happened to all that anyway? The chip makers like Intel just simply couldn't keep delivering for the gravy train? Or, did the corporations finally say screw you? Or, maybe all the above?

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll pass on 3G for now, as well as texting and downloading files on my cellphone, and dumb video clips and polyphonic ring tones and...you get the picture, I'm sure.
achuchma

join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL

Re: If you can't beat down your customer...

said by Fatal Vector See Profile :

As far as cell towers go: Seeing as most of them that I see are veritible trees of antennas (sometimes as many as 6 one above another), it would seem to me that there is plenty of bandwidth available. All they have to do is cooperate with each other.
Good point, however, each of those towers, or panels, belong to different companies and also carry different technology. One "cluster" generally has several carriers on it, with formats from GSM, TDMA, CDMA, PCS, and AMPS.

Even if the carriers "shared" resources, it does not mean that each of the towers are set up for 3G, or can even communicate with the other carrier's phones.

If we ever see the world of wireless narrow down to one format (and probably will one day), then sharing of resources will probably happen much like the major telecom companies share their transport network. Right now, however, it really is not a viable option.

And I understand on passing up 3G. I have been burned plenty of times in the past with technology that was "hip" for a few years, and then it dies...Anyone remember the Wireless Palm VII? It's been useless now for a while, so I only got a short life-span out of a $450 piece of equipment.
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not2cr8iv

join:2000-08-20
Potomac, MD

Verizon's statement reminds me of the bad old days...

back when everyone had to rent all their phones from AT&T, it was considered illegal and a "theft of service" to connect additional extensions within your own home, and your service could be cut off for having illicit additional extension lines in your house. Yup, those were the days....
averagedude

join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ

Re: Verizon's statement reminds me of the bad old days...

Lets also not forget adding cable tv drops.

odreian615

join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL

sharing with "your buddy"

can land you in jail what if "your buddy" downloads kidde porn or "your buddy" downloads music or video and the mpaa or riaa come knocking

TScheisskopf
World News Trust

join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
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Re: sharing with "your buddy"

said by odreian615 See Profile :

can land you in jail what if "your buddy" downloads kidde porn or "your buddy" downloads music or video and the mpaa or riaa come knocking
Oh dear. You know that things are desperate when the "kiddie porn" card is hauled out this early in the game.

We must all sever our Internet connections and seal ourselves in our sub-basements because somewhere, there lurks kiddie porn. Complete isolation can be the only solution.

Psst...I hear that someone on the Starship Enterprise used sub-space communications and the ship's computer to access that stuff. Really. No, really.
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
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·XMission

Re: sharing with "your buddy"

said by TScheisskopf See Profile :

Oh dear. You know that things are desperate when the "kiddie porn" card is hauled out this early in the game.
Actually, that card has already been played out in real life. After a big media blast about how the guy claimed it was maybe his open wireless, the news disappeared. Must have proved he did not do it and thus no dirt on a known person, thus no news to splash on the front page.
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chris
focus
Premium
join:2000-08-13
Middletown, CT
·NETPLEX

said by TScheisskopf See Profile :

said by odreian615 See Profile :

can land you in jail what if "your buddy" downloads kidde porn or "your buddy" downloads music or video and the mpaa or riaa come knocking
Oh dear. You know that things are desperate when the "kiddie porn" card is hauled out this early in the game.

We must all sever our Internet connections and seal ourselves in our sub-basements because somewhere, there lurks kiddie porn. Complete isolation can be the only solution.

Psst...I hear that someone on the Starship Enterprise used sub-space communications and the ship's computer to access that stuff. Really. No, really.
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Nanoprobe
Crunching in subspace
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said by TScheisskopf See Profile :

said by odreian615 See Profile :

can land you in jail what if "your buddy" downloads kidde porn or "your buddy" downloads music or video and the mpaa or riaa come knocking
Oh dear. You know that things are desperate when the "kiddie porn" card is hauled out this early in the game.

We must all sever our Internet connections and seal ourselves in our sub-basements because somewhere, there lurks kiddie porn. Complete isolation can be the only solution.

Psst...I hear that someone on the Starship Enterprise used sub-space communications and the ship's computer to access that stuff. Really. No, really.
But only after the routed it through the Gamma quadrant and DS9 to cover their tracks.
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Beverly Hills, CA
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Re: sharing with "your buddy"

said by Nanoprobe See Profile :

said by TScheisskopf See Profile :

said by odreian615 See Profile :

Psst...I hear that someone on the Starship Enterprise used sub-space communications and the ship's computer to access that stuff. Really. No, really.

But only after the routed it through the Gamma quadrant and DS9 to cover their tracks.
TOP SECRET REPORT:
my inside sources in our Romulus capital tell me, that we intercepted the message and it was in fact routed through the USS D-LINK 43000 sub space wireless router with 802.a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.m.n.o.p.q.r.-Subspace 1.3 with the new sub-spacial quantum string membranes able to transmit simutalniously in all parts of the universe.

this new still has to be rattified by the United Nations, United Planets, and the EU
rbhrulez

join:2005-10-19
Ogden, UT

Definite Business Opportunity

I think the 3G Providers should see this for what it is. And that is a REALLY good business opportunity. Take as an example a recent business that I was dealing with. Trying to get high speed internet access for them was a joke. BUT yet my HSDPA Cingular connection worked great. Had I known at the time that these routers where available I would have highly recommended that this business use the Cingular service instead of the other wireless internet provider I switched them to. Not only that but I would also recommend this as a backup link for a business as well. So until the carriers see this for what it is then I'll just have to continue to recommend other solutions.
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:

Although not exactly on topic

Xmission does not (at least last year) care if you share your connection. However! there is a 100 gigabytes/month meter Monday - Friday, from 7 a.m. to midnight.
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA

Re: Although not exactly on topic

That is the way they should do it. If there are limits on the service, state what the limits are but as to what the customer does within those limits shouldn't matter.
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA

Then they shouldn't advertise the service as unlimited...

Verizon should stop defrauding their customers selling them a service they aren't willing to offer.

If they want to put limits on the use of the service, they should have to disclose EXACTLY what those useage monthly limits are.
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badtrip
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Albany, CA
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Re: Then they shouldn't advertise the service as unlimited...

said by oliphant See Profile :

Verizon should stop defrauding their customers selling them a service they aren't willing to offer.

If they want to put limits on the use of the service, they should have to disclose EXACTLY what those useage monthly limits are.
However, the ISPs know that they will just be opening a can of worms if they dare do that. A couple likely scenarios would unfold:

1. ISP A clearly outlines limits to their service. ISP A's competitors use ISP A's limits as advertisement ammunition saying they have no limits. ISP A's customers jump ship and migrate to the competitors.

2. ISP A clearly outlines limits to thier service. ISP A's competitors do the same. A "bandwith cap" war errupts and caps for all ISPs get bigger and bigger. Soon ISP A has to start upgrading their network to accomodate the contractual bandwith, costing alot of money. If they do not provide what is promised they open themselves up to lawsuits.

Both cases are losers for the ISPs. I'm sure that if it took me 2 seconds to think this up, the "think tanks" at the ISPs have thought about it years ago. I'm sure the ISPs are quite happy with thier invisible caps and threatening letters. The status quo only confuses and pisses off a few people. The above cases would likely confuse and piss off quite a bit more...

oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA

Re: Then they shouldn't advertise the service as unlimited...

Scenario A is more likely. Competition wouldn't permit scenario B of everyone lowering their limits. You would have one creep them up, then the other responds and back and forth.

But without them stating their limits and claiming to sell unlimited use service when it isn't unlimited is fraud.
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dailu
Premium
join:2003-12-03
Mystic, CT

said by oliphant See Profile :

Verizon should stop defrauding their customers selling them a service they aren't willing to offer.

If they want to put limits on the use of the service, they should have to disclose EXACTLY what those useage monthly limits are.
I just had a scary thought that at some point in time, Providers might install a meter on our connections and start charging us by the bit. Electricity and water are charged based on usage....right? Dang.

Our cheerleaders used to chant something like "2 bits, four bits, six bit's a dollar" if that's what you're paying for bandwidth, then get up and holler!"

Were they totally enlightened or what?

Many future scenario's are lovely, and some are just a bummer.

dailu
ru4rl

join:2003-12-28
Durham, NC

This stuff is great...

These kind of products do serve a legit purpose. There are still people all over the world that can get cell service near their house, but no cable/dsl or any other form of high speed internet. Recently my mother moved to a small town outside of Chapel Hill, NC and Time Warner refuses to run Cable out there (she offered to pay a resonable amount to have them extend the line) and BellSouth does not think it is fesible enough to add a CO or RT out there. I don't much blame them there. Of course there is always Satellite internet but you can't play WoW on that, yes she plays WoW. As luck would have it her cell provider, Alltel, has an EVDO equiped tower about 4 miles from her and she was able to get internet access through the EVDO network. I want to get one of these for her since she has a desktop and a laptop but I'll wait until the prices come down a bit. Just my $0.02

FiosFiend

join:2001-12-06
Flower Mound, TX

Re: This stuff is great...

My personal feeling is that most people using these routers aren't sharing their bandwidth with people in a coffee house. Their using it to share bandwidth between computers in their house or office. What's wrong with that?

Before routers were widely available the ISP's used to charge for an extra IP address. I know, I had to pay $5 a month for an extra IP address with @home when I first got it years ago. When routers started flooding the market the ISP's realized that they couldn't do this anymore and just went with it. Did they loose their shirts over routers??? No and they are not going to now.

It amazes me how telcos assume that everyone is a pirate or a criminal. If I buy a service I should be able to use that service any way I want within the limits of the agreement. If they're going to offer up an unlimited package then what difference does it make if I share between computers in my house or between a halfdozen folks at the local park??

bokamba
Chengdu Rocks
Premium
join:2002-04-05
Falls Church, VA

How do they tell?

How can the ISPs tell if you are sharing your connection, other than if you take up more bandwidth than average? I'm sure flyovers aren't a common tactic.

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

Re: How do they tell?

said by bokamba See Profile :

How can the ISPs tell if you are sharing your connection, other than if you take up more bandwidth than average?
Since someone MUST be using their connection more than the average (remember what average means [any of the 3 measures that can be called "average" - ie: Mean, Mode, Median]), using more than the average - in and of itself - does not mean anything since your usage will be balanced by someone using less than the average. The only FAIR way of handling someone using "too much" is to designate how much bandwidth you are selling to the user, providing them with a usage meter, and providing enough bandwidth so everyone can use up to their allocated amount. You can use statistics to decide an average (ie: Since everyone will not use the max they are entitled to) so you can actually provide a lesser aggregate amount).
id_deleted

join:2003-05-01
Salt Lake City, UT


1 edit

This idea is a bit ole news, at least to us. :)

We have been offering hardware that accepts a 3G card and serves its 3G internet connection over WiFi for quite a while. The question is why stop there, if you are going to the trouble of installing a box in your vehicle, you may as well have the box do everything you could ever imagine short of driving the car for you (were working on that one).. It's what we call our vehicle network server, the VN1.
sheureka

join:2002-09-28
Bisbee, AZ

Sprint EVDO Router and EVDO Dongle

Sprint announced today that it will be offering an EVDO router and EVDO dongle within the next few months. So not all providers are like Verizon. Here's the story - »www2.sprint.com/mr/news_dtl.do?id=11140 - sheureka
jebba2005

join:2005-01-13
Portland, ME
·Great Works Internet
·RoadRunner Cable

I like this thread.

This thread is awesome. Junkmale is all over it early and often. As usual he cant seem to post w/o mentioning the member who he has a secret crush on, G.P.,,,as usual he (Junk) posts right below him (G.P.), throwing in a personal shot.

"An intelligent reply, unlike some of the above. Your scenario is certainly a possibility and one that the 3G providers should consider."...Junkmale

ok , there are 2 posts you are replying to, one you complimented so that means...

Next piracy and porn jump in..

meanwhile some good information is exchanged and 2 good links posted.

LilYoda
Feline with squirel personality disorder
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Mountains

Re: I like this thread.

Yes, my young apprentice.... Things go exactly as I had foreseen....

(insert evil laugh here)
dailu
Premium
join:2003-12-03
Mystic, CT

said by jebba2005 See Profile :

This thread is awesome.

It is intersting to say the least. I'm glad all those who are posting are doing so. Lots of fresh thinking and perspectives that would have eluded me for sure.

Keep it up on all sides for sure.

d
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