 Djinnmage
join:2004-03-14
Fairfax, VA | What about outages? So when the network goes down, those people won't be able to view the content they recorded, right? Whereas with a DVR they could view that content anytime I believe. | |
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tnroroc
Let's Rock
join:2001-04-25
Matawan, NJ
| Re: What about outages? Plus it's just another example of turning over your life's details, since they will now know what you record.
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rok - Enjoy this game called life, nobody is actually keeping score.  | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
 ·Charter Pipeline
| Re: What about outages? said by tnroroc  :Plus it's just another example of turning over your life's details, since they will now know what you record. Uh, if you have any digital service, they'll know what you're doing with it. Trust, you are not hiding a thing from them.
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:: my trivial ramblings :: | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
| Re: What about outages? said by GOLFnSUN :said by Djinnmage :So when the network goes down, those people won't be able to view the content they recorded, right? Whereas with a DVR they could view that content anytime I believe. Also, the space they are setting aside is only 80 GB. That is less than the std 120 or 160 GB available on most cable company DVRs and much less than many TIVO based DVRs. And if you record HDTV shows, that space will be eaten up very quickly. And actually it is Cablevision who offers expandable SA DVRs for more tha a year now - it has an external SATA port, so you can buy extra storage drives and not only from Scientific Atlanta IIRC but from brand. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| You know, I'm really torn on this one. On one hand, it's really nice when you don't have this big ugly device sitting next to your TV, and it's especially nice when you have transparent, remotely managed services available for a fair price. Simple is elegant, in my opinion.
The problem comes in choice. Users should have a choice as to whether or not they get remote, managed service or a local upgradable device. Perhaps in the long run there isn't any difference between the two, so long as the price for the service remains in check, which can only occur if devices remain available....oh the irony! I think the room is spinning...
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Wiki Wiki
First of all, if what I write appears to be too simplified, please excuse me. --Martin | |
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| | Sipix86
join:2006-01-08
Mesa, AZ | Same outages that there is now...
Its 80 HOURS of space, will it be HD, suppose its up to them
pay more money for it
dont get it, just buy a computer multimedia center be done with it. costing less everyday. | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| said by Djinnmage :So when the network goes down, those people won't be able to view the content they recorded, right? Whereas with a DVR they could view that content anytime I believe. Everyone! Sing along with me! Cablevision killed the video recorder! "sung to the tune of Video killed the Radio Star" | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by Djinnmage :So when the network goes down, those people won't be able to view the content they recorded, right? Whereas with a DVR they could view that content anytime I believe. Nope, if you cant tune the dvr playback channel you cant view stuff thats on the dvr's hard drive.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
1 edit | said by Djinnmage :So when the network goes down, those people won't be able to view the content they recorded, right? Whereas with a DVR they could view that content anytime I believe. Ahh yes, the instant Nay sayer... 
Let's look at the pluses to this:
1) Those that have MOTO 700 boxes, tiny as the SB5100 box, no ugly large box to take up all the room on your TV. DVR dissapears.
2) How many people have had a DVR box go bad and when the tech comes, your saved programs walk out the door with him? 'nuff said.
3) They might be starting with the size of storage they are, however, it also means that space CAN BE UPGRADED later.
4) Portability - you can grab this content from any box in the house. INSTANT who house solution! Imagine that!
5) No tech visit to wait for to upgrade your service. Call the MSO and ask for the DVR option and now you have it. In comcast systems, I am sure it would be as easy since the remotes already have the right buttons. I am sure you would simply go to a channel, guessing something like 0, and there is your DVR programming, OR, it could be added to the VOD service as a menu option.
6) Easier to schedule recordings over the web, I am sure, in the future.
7) No more "crappy dvr boxes." At least in our system, VOD works excellent with few problems. Just like VOD, a firmware push would more than likely give you DVR functions.
8) Comcast systems - and this is just a guess. Soon you will be able to watch TV on the internet through your computer. MAYBE you will be able to view your DVR programs while at work. It's a possibility that you just might. Working late? Log into the portal and access that show you DVRd.. who knows.
9) Crystal clear recordings everytime! Even if your cable goes out, your programs will still record at the head end. The recording will be PERFECT since it's coming right from the head end into their system. If you are having issues with your cable drop or outlets, you will ALWAYS record a clear picture no matter what. Power outtage? Drop cut or take out by a downed tree in the last storm? The head end DVR still records... probably the best feature yet!
Why does everyone look at EVERYTHING as a negative? If you don't like the hosted platform, I can assure you that the settop DVR is NOT going away anytime soon. | |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| This should help TiVo, if they actually do this that is... If the cable companies kill off their DVRs then I think TiVo should see more sales. I don't think they'll actually get rid of their DVRs though
The problem with storing all your shows at the head-end is what you can't watch any recorded shows when your cable is out. Also congestion can cause control/streaming issues.
Finally the cable company can decide to just wipe your shows out if they need more space or the MPAA decides you shouldn't have that movie/show on "your DVR".
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
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| SD6
join:2005-03-26
| Re: This should help TiVo, if they actually do this that is... said by Morac :If the cable companies kill off their DVRs then I think TiVo should see more sales. I don't think they'll actually get rid of their DVRs though The problem with storing all your shows at the head-end is what you can't watch any recorded shows when your cable is out. Also congestion can cause control/streaming issues. Finally the cable company can decide to just wipe your shows out if they need more space or the MPAA decides you shouldn't have that movie/show on "your DVR". This doesn't sound as though they are prohibiting DVRs - just providing an additional option. It should see some success with less sophisticated subscribers, it's up to CV to not screw it up.
Most of the time is cable is out because the programming is interrupted before or at the headend. It is rarely because of congestion/interruptions between the headend and the subscriber.
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: This should help TiVo, if they actually do this that is... said by SD6 :Most of the time is cable is out because the programming is interrupted before or at the headend. It is rarely because of congestion/interruptions between the headend and the subscriber. I've actually found the opposite to be true in my area. Most of the time if my cable is out they need to send a truck out to fix it. Sometimes the cable isn't technically out since I can get (a rather awful) analog picture, but the signals are so bad that no digital signals can get through. This happens a few times a year (usually in late spring/early summer and late fall/early winter).
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
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tparker1
join:2004-09-29
Winston Salem, NC | Cablevision Even better is a HTPC.That way you record and it doesn't cost anything.The DVR is a nice device just too expensive. | |
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| ke4pym
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
·Verizon BroadbandA..
 ·Packet8
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Cablevision Too bad an HTPC can't record encrypted HD content. Like, say HBOHD, InHD (2), HDNet, etc, etc.
It can't work with any of the VoD services or the like either.
Maybe some day a CableCARD equiped HTPC compatible tuner will show up. One that works, anyway...
Me, if I had to give up having the SA 8300HD being in my house, I think I'd just give up DVR functionality all together. I'm tired of sending my cable company a car payment every month anyway. | |
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midranger4
Stupid Is No longer in Vogue
Premium
join:2002-01-18
Levittown, PA
| Depends on functionality If the fast forward function is the same as *On Demand* in Comcast then I would be very displeased if Comcast took this route.
I have heard rumblings that eliminating the DVR is a first step in putting an end to the *digital skip* function many of us DVR users have programmed into our remotes.
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Democracy is the illusion of Freedom | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Depends on functionality said by midranger4 :If the fast forward function is the same as *On Demand* in Comcast then I would be very displeased if Comcast took this route. I have heard rumblings that eliminating the DVR is a first step in putting an end to the *digital skip* function many of us DVR users have programmed into our remotes. Even worse, they plan on inserting ads into the programs. The news item doesn't say if they will do this to recorded content that doesn't already have ads like Showtime or HBO.
And eventually, it will be able to insert different ads for different viewers into recorded programs each time they are played back.
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Join Red Room Forum
BLOG tkjunkmail.blogspot.com
My Web Page | |
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| | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Depends on functionality said by GOLFnSUN : Even worse, they plan on inserting ads into the programs. And eventually, it will be able to insert different ads for different viewers into recorded programs each time they are played back. That right there is enough reason to not want this. Comcast (for example) is already cramming their locally-inserted ads into every possible programming nook and cranny, and we really don't need to give them yet another ad orfice.
Plus, with this scheme I can't transfer to my laptop or burn to DVD for viewing away from the cable like I can with TiVo. No thanks.
And while we're at it, someone please buy Comcast/Chicago an audio level meter. 45 dB disparity between channels is quite incompetent.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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Foxbat121
join:2001-04-25
Herndon, VA
| Multi-Room capable If it allows me to access my DVR content from any of my two HDTVs, I may consider. However, given that my internet connection may be saturated by TV contents to and from ISP, I may not want to do that for the sake of gaming. Besides, how many programs can you record at once while playing back another one? If my local Cox goes that router, I'll cancel the service and switch to FIOS promptly. | |
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Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs: | Re: Multi-Room capable Ummm it won't use the same bandwidth as your internet service, not at all. | |
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| | Foxbat121
join:2001-04-25
Herndon, VA
1 edit | Re: Multi-Room capable There is only so much can push down that rusty cable coax line. I already need a cable amplifier to keep it conencted. And I'm already on 5m/2ms connection along with half dozen neighbors sharing the same node. How much more bandwidth can you squeze in? | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| said by Foxbat121 :If it allows me to access my DVR content from any of my two HDTVs, I may consider. That's the only upside that I can think of. Currently, I have Time Warner Cable with a DVR in my living room and an extra receiver in my bedroom. I'd love to be able to sit in bed and watch DVR content even if the content was recorded by my DVR in the living room.
Of course, knowing the cable companies, we'll probably have to enable the "DVR service" on each box separately for a separate fee.
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-Jason Levine
My Gallery | Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com | URateit.com | |
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| | ke4pym
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
·Verizon BroadbandA..
·Packet8
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Multi-Room capable said by Jason Levine :said by Foxbat121 :If it allows me to access my DVR content from any of my two HDTVs, I may consider. That's the only upside that I can think of. Currently, I have Time Warner Cable with a DVR in my living room and an extra receiver in my bedroom. I'd love to be able to sit in bed and watch DVR content even if the content was recorded by my DVR in the living room. Of course, knowing the cable companies, we'll probably have to enable the "DVR service" on each box separately for a separate fee. You could. If TW would ever impliment SA's MR (multiroom) versions of the 8300(HD) box. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Program storage limit? If 100 people record tonights episode of 24 how does it makes sense to take one hour of record time out of all of their storage limits? Shouldn't only one file be created no matter how many people recorded it? And then if you forgot to set up a recording, shouldn't you have access to the recording as long as someone else remembered to save it? | |
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jtudor
Xm 60's On 6 Freak
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-07
Morganton, NC
| Re: Program storage limit? Not gonna happen that way, it's way too logical. You have to remember that you are dealing with corporate big wigs here who are not interested in innovation or logic, just $$$$$. And they have no technological savvy either soooo...
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Best of luck
"Do, or Do not, there is no try!" Yoda
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GlenQuagmire
Giggidy Giggidy Giggidy Goo
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Grand Rapids, MI
| The content providers will not allow this. The law is that I can make a copy for my own personal use. If the cable company records the program once and let everyone view it they are redistributing the content without the copyright holders permissions which is illegal. At that point it is just like Comcasts Ondemand and they will want to charge you for every time you want to watch it. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Re: Program storage limit? Well at the very least, only have one copy saved and only make that one copy available to those that were fortunate enough to hit the record button. They seriously aren't going to have one recorder for every customer all in one central location. That would need to be a big room. | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| said by insomniac84 :If 100 people record tonights episode of 24 how does it makes sense to take one hour of record time out of all of their storage limits? Shouldn't only one file be created no matter how many people recorded it? And then if you forgot to set up a recording, shouldn't you have access to the recording as long as someone else remembered to save it? There is a simple solution to this issue that I think will solve the issue and keep the content providers happy. The Cable Company provides a list of shows they automatically record. When you add the show to your list, you get a link to it not a separate copy and your limit is reduced by that amount. This means that if 24 was 1 GIG (pulling a number out of the air) then each of your 100 would be charged for 1GIG of storage but only 1GIG (not 100GIG) would be used on the Cable Company Server. Any show NOT on the list would be saved to your private area and allocation. These shows are tracked (in aggregate) and once a designated percentage of users are recording the show it gets added to the Group Sharing list and requests get the link not a private copy saving storage on the server. This 2nd tier of Group Recordings may be "under the covers" with the programs not listed in the "We Always Record" Menu. | |
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Varlik
Without Honor You Will Never Be Free
Premium
join:2002-01-06
Anderson, SC
| Missing the boat They still just don't get it. This is all about content control. The more they try to control the more folks will turn away in disgust from their services. Selling open services that offer flexibility will only increase sells and profitability. 80G is a joke if your going to give folks a means to store content give them a means to store content.
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"Sir SIR! We don't use DHCP servers. We only use IBM & Microsoft servers." From there my call to tech support went steadily downhill. | |
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
1 edit | Re: Missing the boat said by Varlik :They still just don't get it. This is all about content control. The more they try to control the more folks will turn away in disgust from their services. Selling open services that offer flexibility will only increase sells and profitability. You have NO clue and live in your own world, obviously. I have been in thousands of homes with these so called people that would be turned away from this. You obviously are basing your comments from your own mind, not others. There are MANY people that would rather have a head end hosted solution vs the box in the home. Unlike you, I talk to the actual consumer on a daily basis. Though this is hitting the news now, it's old news to some of us.
Yes, there are SOME that would be "disgusted" with this.. to those? they need to get a life if they are "disgusted" because it just TV, afterall.
Not everyone thinks the same way, so you know, maybe some day, people will 'get it.'
80G is a joke if your going to give folks a means to store content give them a means to store content.
IT'S A START! Geez! Stop bitching! I do believe the first Tivo had a 40g hard drive didn't it?
By the way - has anyone spoke up about taking away your set top tivo?? I didn't think so. | |
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Varlik
Without Honor You Will Never Be Free
Premium
join:2002-01-06
Anderson, SC
4 edits | Re: Missing the boat This isn't the first time you've asserted this and I have a pretty good clue that it won't be the last. But that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it as am I to mine. As for this being old news and just hitting the news here at BBR now. Sorry but it was posted here ages ago. So I already knew that it was old news. I knew about it before it was even ever posted here. But the last I checked their isn’t a site rule regarding posting comments on old news.
This is nothing more then a move to control content. What advantage does this offer over a set top box? Increased capacity yes but not at 80G that’s a common average hard dive in most DVR / PVR’s. Cost savings yes probably for the cable company but it’s still going to cost the consumer. And I doubt that little if any of the costs savings will ever truly reach the customers bill.
Cable companies and networks / production companies want to control their content. This means restricting folks in the usage of their shows. Their’s also money to be made by controlling the product. Imagine being able to save a show to your hosted space at the cable company’s head-end but having to pay a charge every time you watch it. Imagine storing content for years but when you move to a different provider with a similar service you have to lose your content and reacquire it all over again. Why because you’re not allowed to save / transfer the service or only to certain devices or by certain means that generate a lower quality recording.
As for my TiVo while it's nice it's not all it's cracked up to be. Maybe TiVo's series 3 boxes will score higher with me. In closing I never said everyone thinks the same. Why would I think that when the folks who thought up this obviously don't agree with me. I'll Bitch as you so eloquently put it if I so desire, it's a free country and I'll voice my opinion. --
"Sir SIR! We don't use DHCP servers. We only use IBM & Microsoft servers." From there my call to tech support went steadily downhill. | |
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| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | Re: Missing the boat What's the advantage to HE hosted DVR? Look above.. I made 9 or 10 good points. Look up in this tread and you will see them. | |
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GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA | Something Evil This Way Comes I'm betting the quality of the 'stored' copies will be reduced, having limited access, and provide a means to start charging per a per-viewing fee in time. This will only serve to get people back into buying standalone PVR equipment like TiVo. | |
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rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Can any TV view it? If any TV can view what you record at the head end, then it's a huge plus. Right now we have a DVR and there's exactly one place we can view the shows that we record. Granted, there are various esoteric schemes to "share" DVR video with other TVs but all involve consuming resources on the in-home DVR. if storing it at the head end and having a "thin" device for every TV allows simplified sharing among more than two TVs at the same time, this is a BIG plus in my book. | |
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| competence
join:2004-11-24
123456 | Re: Can any TV view it? i see a notice coming in the mail, "Sorry you're limited to watchin this show you recorded, you're capped @ watching it 3 times a month, and a monthly fee will occur when you go over the cap of 15 dollars" | |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Time to buy your own Exactly!
I own a DVR so that I don't have to pay Tivo to have a channel listing so that I have to pay cable/phone company connection to get the information I have to pay more for. Heck, I just go online and get the channel schedule. easy. Wait, did that sound right?
And I speed through the commercials because they don't apply, aren't that good and usually offensive (ergo obnoxious).
(those late night Food commercials, ads for dating online??? on History channel??, ads for the local used car crooks, unrealistic mortgage rates and erectile dysfunction is ok!)  | |
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| mglunt
join:2001-09-10
Fredericksburg, VA |
I'll keep my DirecTivo with its upgraded hard drives. | |
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jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ | MythTv »www.mythtv.org
Not for mom and pop but probably doable if you're reading this post. | |
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| KPunk3
join:2004-09-10
Moorestown, NJ
| Re: MythTv if comcast does this, i would remove the DVR like function, and download tv shows, then the MPAA can worry about that. and the fast foward would be horrible, i mean look at comcasts on-demand fast foward. you press play takes about 5 seconds to stop, then once it plays your 5 minutes further into the program. | |
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| RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
1 edit | Re: Would They Oversell? said by swintec :I just do not think its possible to give EVERYONE 80 gigs free and clear. I can't really think of a ratio, but if I had to guess I would say 3:1? Why do I suddenly envision the ads for the service containing the phrase "up to" (in 6 point type) before the 80 GB... And heaven forbid you actually keep 80 gigs on the system all the time. You'll be a "storage hog".
Again, no thanks.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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EO50
join:2005-01-23
united state
| Able to view same content on multiple Cable Boxes One big advantage would be you can watch the shows in multiple locations. You wouldn't be tied to watching recorded shows on the tv that has the DVR. You would now be able to watch the recorded shows in any room in the house that has a cable box, not just the one with the DVR box. Plus since they are recording it, if there is a power outage at your home, you don't have to worry about missing any shows during a power outage. | |
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brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Able to view same content on multiple Cable Boxes That's great but what if there sever craps out then what?? | |
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Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA | oh dear... i smell another seedy venture to try and push commercials down our throats... if the control of stored content is taken away from the consumer, then you don't control what goes onto the storage at the head-end... am i right...? | |
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atlantarta
join:2003-07-07
Bethlehem, GA
| There will still be DVRs Don't worry SA/Cisco is making plenty of DVR set-tops. They also have Multi-room DVRs that store your content locally. You can play that content in another room. DVD recording DVRs are the newest on the market. Millions of DVRs are already deployed. There is no plan to obsolete them. Now Motorola on the other hand is a little behind in this. | |
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JaM4150
Premium
join:2005-10-27
Matamoras, PA
clubs: | Re: There will still be DVRs What cable-TV provider has deployed Multi-Room DVR's? | |
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Dominokat
"Hi"
Premium
join:2002-08-06
Boothbay, ME
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | Keep it in the house. I'd rather have my recording on a local machine in my house. What happens WHEN cable goes out or something breaks down at the cable plant? Then I can't watch my recordings.
Also, techs have a hard enough time keeping up on maintenance as it is. The idea of storing a customers recording on a server only adds more cost and maintenance.
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Adelphia HSI*4000/384*Linksys BEFCMU10 v4 modem*Linksys WRT54G v2.2 WAP/Router | |
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| magnushsi
join:2002-11-06
Cedar Springs, MI | Re: Keep it in the house. You can't watch content if there is an outage anyways. The settop doesn't work if it can't communicate with the headend. If you have a digital outage your dead in the water regardless if the content is local or not. | |
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Keep it in the house. said by magnushsi :You can't watch content if there is an outage anyways. The settop doesn't work if it can't communicate with the headend. If you have a digital outage your dead in the water regardless if the content is local or not. Not true at all. Your DVR will continue to function with a plant outtage. Once the box has it's instructions/programming and hasn't been unplugged, the DVR will continue to function on it's own. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by Dominokat :I'd rather have my recording on a local machine in my house. What happens WHEN cable goes out or something breaks down at the cable plant? Then I can't watch my recordings. Also, techs have a hard enough time keeping up on maintenance as it is. The idea of storing a customers recording on a server only adds more cost and maintenance. you cant do that when your cable is out!
unless its a HTPC
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Actually, it's an offset of costs, and probably a large savings. Each DVR cost about $500 to $600 per box. Total that by the amount of custoemrs. Add the cost of installation that is usually at no or little charge. (Well, even when it is charged, it's less that the cost of the truck roll) Then add the trouble calls to swap multiple boxes out all the time.. DVR as it is now is a loosing service. It's a retention product. The $9.95 fee doesn't even come close to covering the service. These DVRs will likely outdate before they start turning a profit. They will be lucky to break even with DVR in the end.
hard drive space is becoming more and more less expensive. They are also easier to maintain in a HE environment vs. maintaining each DBR in a cable sytem in home environment. | |
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Rob A
Same Old Jets
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | Typical Cablevision Ruining TV for everyone else. | |
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atlantarta
join:2003-07-07
Bethlehem, GA
| DVR very much still alive Here is a link to a Multi-Room DVR »www.scientificatlanta.com/produc···-dvd.htm If I find the MSOs that are deploying them I will post it. TIVO and satellite are two services using DVRs and they have been and continue to be very popular. You mentioned retention and that is a big concern. That and customers wanting them is why they will continue to be available. The fact that the cable company is copying copyrighted material and reselling it is a problem, as opposed to the consumer copying it locally. One of the reasons that cable companies could sell a service that sends stored content from headend is that you could watch a program that you never thought to record. The problem is that they would be reselling content and it has been a problem for them. The same issue is true if they want to operate a headend based DVR service. | |
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fire fly
@aol.com | transfer to dvd Will this new system allow me to continue to transfer the show or parts of it onto tape or dvd? Or will it be blocked like movies on demand.
I have no need for any kind of dvr that will now allow me to archive shows or scenes I like | |
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Cablevision Kills the DVR?
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Time Warner's product ended due to legal challenges
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