 
rexbinary
Mod King
Premium
join:2005-01-26
Plano, TX | Greedy Investors I'm glad I got fiber to the curb before the greedy investors start screwing things up.  | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
| Re: Greedy Investors said by GOLFnSUN  :said by rexbinary :I'm glad I got fiber to the curb before the greedy investors start screwing things up. If it wasn't for the so-called greedy investors you wouldn't have Fios at all. What a frikkin BS.
If it would be up to the investors, we'd be still paying around $50 for dialup, tied to VZ-only $60-70 for local POTS w/ 500 local minutes. | |
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| | | melps
join:2002-01-05
Paramus, NJ | Re: Greedy Investors Keep in mind that all of "us" are the investors.
Own 401k,IRA, Pension Plan? | |
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Bencoder
@216.135.x.x | And if it wasn't for the end customer, the company wouldn't have a reason to exist at all. There, I've run rings around your logic! | |
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| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Greedy Investors Your ring is only half way complete.
You, *A* consumer may believe you care, but many others don't care. Many consumers care about price ONLY and nothing more. So, you are fighting with your fellow consumers.
Those that pay into 401k and others - how do you know you are investing in Verizon? Your money could be in C&H Sugar for all you know, or Home Depot.
There are investors that own more shares that could choke you as compared to your few hints of shares that MAY or MAY NOT be in your 401K or other holdings.
Now, enough of the refuting the 'cute & witty' postings...
Maybe, just MAYBE, it would be nice if Verizon offered the choice of the existing install at a premium or the cheaper method. However, again, it's all about bulk buying power. If enough people don't want the old fashion style install, then the old way of installing goes even higher.
As long as the product works, why should anyone care? Down the road when more and more people install FiOS and the product becomes a regular staple in the Verizon product line, down the road I am sure that installs will go back to the way they once were.
If you want Verizon to be successful with FiOS, they need to make it financially viable.
Those that want it the other way and want it cheap too remind me of the spoiled brat snot nosed kids throwing a temper tantrum because Mommy won't buy them the unaffordable $150.00 Nikes like everyone else has over the $60 Nikes that she can in fact afford. IOW - stop your whining. | |
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| | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Greedy Investors I know... I was making a blanket statement to what was more than likely a blaket statement itself.
The OP may very well have a bit of Verizon in his 401k port. but as compared to what a normal investor may have invested in the company is usually very very little. More so, riding on the coat tails to make a long term, VERY long term, safe return on a little money. The big boys are the ones taking the real risk with real shares, and not the mutual funds. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by GOLFnSUN :said by rexbinary :I'm glad I got fiber to the curb before the greedy investors start screwing things up. If it wasn't for the so-called greedy investors you wouldn't have Fios at all. if it weren't for customers there would be NOTHING for the investors to invest in.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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| TX Tech
join:2005-10-17
Lewisville, TX
| If you have FiOS, you don't have Fiber to the curb, you have fiber to the home.
MoCA is already being used. I really wish some of these news sources would actually have a clue as to what is going on before they release this crap.
Also, in response to the article, we're not "Changing" anything, this was the plan all along. To provide a return path for the set top boxes, we are using MoCA. It's not because of investors, it's because the coax is already there. And for those of you wondering, no, it doesn't slow anything down. | |
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| Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA
 ·Comcast
| The interesting thing to me was the prices to install the FIOS. They say $1400/home for the fiber run down the street and an additional $1200/home for each house that connects.
Lets say you have a street with 10 homes and 4 of them choose to get the FIOS service. This means the total cost is $1400*10 + $1200*4 = $18800 ==> $18800/4 = $4700 per paying customer. Even at $100 a month or so per paying customer their return on investment is a long long time. | |
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| | wlan907
join:2005-02-27
Brooklyn, NY
| Re: Return on investment 1) If they can get internet, tv, phone and cell, it should be more like $200/month, which is paid for in two-years if it is really 4700 per cust.
2) This doesn't take into account the tax break for spending the money, which can be quite helpful in massaging the figures.
3) It doesn't take into account what they will lose if they didn't roll out fiber. ATT will have all 4 services and VZ is stuck with to revenue ata lll. | |
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metoo75
@alcatel.com | Any of you guys have FIOS installed? Does Verizon pull CAT5 cable to the location of your primary computer? Do they fish the wire through walls and floors? I'm asking because it would save me time pulling the cable myself.
Thanks. | |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Greedy Investors I pulled the structured wiring under code (check your local Low Voltage codes).
I've Cat5e to each room.
I had also provided a punchdown block at the POE (point of entry) of the Fios cat5 from outside. The installers loved me.
I had AC outlet (with lighting) on panel for the gear they put in.
Maybe I should take a photo...? | |
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mrwhipple
Premium
join:2005-12-24
Pasadena, MD
|  The FIOS techs will pull cat5e, fish walls if possible and run thru the attic or crawl space. The cat5e wire looks terrible if run on the surface. They also can install a wireless NIC on your PC. | |
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Kamaz
join:2006-01-26
Elizabethtown, PA
| This is why Bose is still a private company, so he can research and build what he wants to without investors telling him what do. Then again Bose is overpriced and doesn't seem better than competitors anyways...
This still isn't a bad idea though, saving money never hurts. It shouldn't reduce quality/speed. And if customers don't like it they can install Cat5 before Verizon comes to hook up Fios. I know if I could get Fios I woiuld prewire my house in a heartbeat, so I could have Fios up and running as fast as possible, and have it done my way. Too bad I'm still stuck with Sprint's crappy dsl (overpriced/slow)...maybe they should change their name to Crawl. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Greedy Investors said by Kamaz :This is why Bose is still a private company, so he can research and build what he wants to without investors telling him what do. Then again Bose is overpriced and doesn't seem better than competitors anyways... This still isn't a bad idea though, saving money never hurts. It shouldn't reduce quality/speed. And if customers don't like it they can install Cat5 before Verizon comes to hook up Fios. I know if I could get Fios I woiuld prewire my house in a heartbeat, so I could have Fios up and running as fast as possible, and have it done my way. Too bad I'm still stuck with Sprint's crappy dsl (overpriced/slow)...maybe they should change their name to Crawl. YUKK!
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"friends in the knows dont let friends buy bose"
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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Shamayim
I already have a Messiah.
Premium
join:2002-09-23 | Will this reduce speeds? That is the only question. | |
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Topmounter
Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Evergreen, CO | Re: Will this reduce speeds? I'm not sure how to answer that, considering the FANBOI purported speed of FIOS is "OMG!INFINITY!".
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"If PCs are hard, then Macs are flaccid" -bb | |
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| TX Tech
join:2005-10-17
Lewisville, TX | No, it will not reduce speeds at all. | |
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| paisp
join:2004-02-16
Newtown, PA
| Re: Quality vs. Cost said by Cjaiceman :So, basically they are sacrificing quality for cost... Do I smell another OOL? On the other hand, it could also speed up the install time so more people get done per day, resulting in a faster rollout. Personally, I would choose to have CAT6 or CAT6e prerun though the house then have verizon come out and just make the connection to the house. But thats my 2 cents.... (and I'm pretty sure no one really cares ) That's cool. So, pay to have your house wired with CAT6. But if a provider can supply the same service over existing RG6, (which is fantastic cabling), then why spend more money just because people "want" it, thereby making it cost us all more money.
I'm not bashing you, but think about where we all were just not too long ago. A T1 was $3000.00 and broadband was hardly available to anyone. Now we're getting a little piggish, the American way I guess.
I'm willing to bet if Verizon ran fiber to people's TV and made the service free people would still find something to gripe about.
Bottom line, surfing websites, downloading email, and watching porn will all be just as fast over RG6 as it would be delivered another way locally in the house.
Speaking of bitching, I can't wait to see the next article "Cablo Co's Complaining About Verizon Using Their Coax In Customer's Homes". I don't recall seeing a check from comcrap to wire my house with coax. But they'll bitch, I'm sure. | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Quality vs. Cost I don't think this changes a whole heck of a lot.
Verizon is still going to run fiber to the ONT mounted at your house (if I read the article correctly), they're just going to change the way the signal is distributed through the house.
Quite frankly, I would rather run my own cat 5 in my house, and I don't think the TV service is coming to my town any time soon. Franchise issues.
Of course, I have a ranch house with an open basement, so running cat 5 in my basement is a breeze.. | |
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| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Quality vs. Cost said by N3OGH :I don't think this changes a whole heck of a lot. Verizon is still going to run fiber to the ONT mounted at your house (if I read the article correctly), they're just going to change the way the signal is distributed through the house. This is a good thing. At least fiber to the wall.
said by N3OGH :Quite frankly, I would rather run my own cat 5 in my house, and I don't think the TV service is coming to my town any time soon. Franchise issues. Of course, I have a ranch house with an open basement, so running cat 5 in my basement is a breeze.. I agree with you here BUT this is a site mostly for people who know either the advantages of this and/or know how to do it. Newer houses are being wired up for this but older houses with those that do not know will be the issue.
I know for sure that if a tech came up to a house with a distribution system in place, his dad would be a whole lot easier. | |
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| | ChrisPC
join:2002-01-30
Hermitage, TN | The American way is piggish? Then how come Sweden, Japan, etc., have 100MB and we only have 6 or 8? | |
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| | | paisp
join:2004-02-16
Newtown, PA
| Re: Quality vs. Cost said by ChrisPC :The American way is piggish? Then how come Sweden, Japan, etc., have 100MB and we only have 6 or 8? I'm not really sure. I'm sure the economics are different though... such as law suits, corporate fraud, national debt, taxes, etc. Its all relative don't you think? I think this all affects us all individually. Maybe if we took a good atom-bombing from Japan and then let them rebuild our country brand new, then maybe they'd have less money to splash around on getting people 100MB of useless bandwidth, for example.
But a better question is this. What would you do today differently than you would normally if you were suddenly given 100MB?
Don't you think also that when we see 100MB, and Japan has Gigabit, then we'd all complain too? Human nature.. especially in a country where we have everything in an instant.
Oh, by the way isn't fuel costs over there three or four times the cost of what we pay? Its all relative... | |
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AnonymousPerson
@optonline.net
1 edit | Re: Quality vs. Cost National debt? You have got to be kidding me. Japan's national debt is 170% of its GDP, yet that is not stopping it from spending government money amid its budget deficits to pay for this stuff:
»www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac···ank.html
The United States has a much lower national debt, 64.70% of the GDP; thankfully we are not spending US dollars on building a national broadband infrastructure; we have enough stuff to pay for already. | |
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| | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by ChrisPC :The American way is piggish? Then how come Sweden, Japan, etc., have 100MB and we only have 6 or 8? because those countries actually think the internet is important for the future and have either ensured there is competition or have used government money.
This is in stark contrast to the U.S. where nothing technical (except weapons systems) is of interest to the current government and the telecom industry is being allowed to turn back into an unregulated monopoly/duopoly. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by ChrisPC :The American way is piggish? Then how come Sweden, Japan, etc., have 100MB and we only have 6 or 8? two words
"Corporate Greed"
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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| | Penny3000
join:2003-11-24
Oak Ridge, TN | How much should we expect a person to pay for a T1 line now? | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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AnnaS8
join:2005-05-26
Annapolis, MD
| said by paisp :said by Cjaiceman :So, basically they are sacrificing quality for cost... Do I smell another OOL? On the other hand, it could also speed up the install time so more people get done per day, resulting in a faster rollout. Personally, I would choose to have CAT6 or CAT6e prerun though the house then have verizon come out and just make the connection to the house. But thats my 2 cents.... (and I'm pretty sure no one really cares ) That's cool. So, pay to have your house wired with CAT6. But if a provider can supply the same service over existing RG6, (which is fantastic cabling), then why spend more money just because people "want" it, thereby making it cost us all more money. I'm not bashing you, but think about where we all were just not too long ago. A T1 was $3000.00 and broadband was hardly available to anyone. Now we're getting a little piggish, the American way I guess. I'm willing to bet if Verizon ran fiber to people's TV and made the service free people would still find something to gripe about. Bottom line, surfing websites, downloading email, and watching porn will all be just as fast over RG6 as it would be delivered another way locally in the house. Speaking of bitching, I can't wait to see the next article "Cablo Co's Complaining About Verizon Using Their Coax In Customer's Homes". I don't recall seeing a check from comcrap to wire my house with coax. But they'll bitch, I'm sure. Ok so the fact that we have have slower speeds then Japan is some how connected to the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? WTF? What about China? I guess that is from our protest of what happened in the Red Square? Europe? Is that from the Berlin Wall falling?
Yes it wasn't that long ago that we were inching along at 2400 baud either. So you think we are bitching cuz we want more? Bottom line is that 8 or 9 is great if all you are doing is surfing the web but as we tack on more and more internet services such as IPTV or VOIP...Then the less and less effective that speeds becomes.
I think it is good that Verizon puts fiber into the homes. It shows me they are thinking ahead. They got here late in the game and with their speeds now and in the future I think fiber in the homes is a better choice. Especially with more and more people building gigabit networks at their homes, it becomes all the more necessary. I think that Verizon should tell the impatient investors to go suck an egg.
I do agree with you that next you will see Comcast complaining about them installing on their cable in the homes.  | |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| Re: Quality vs. Cost said by tonyfer2 :i have ool 30-2 service and i get 28945download and 1.985up day and night i have n\p whit ool .... now whan i had verizon dsl my home move 3.000 feet 3 dif time ... OOL = Coax
FiOS = Fiber
DSL = Copper
NONE of these can be compared to each other. You may be able to obtain 2.9mb down and 2mb up, but you're still on coax.
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YourIP.US - Quickly Locate Your IP!
LiveWhois.Net - It's Never Been So Easy!
RR.CX My Blog.. | |
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mrchris
We don't miss you Bush
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | Re: Quality vs. Cost I believe OOL uses a Coax hybrid with something else. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Quality vs. Cost said by mrchris :I believe OOL uses a Coax hybrid with something else. yeah. its fibre, just like every other cableco uses. nothing special about OOL anymore unless you enjoy getting your upload capped.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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tonyfer2
join:2002-08-14
Elizabeth, NJ
clubs:  | Re: Quality vs. Cost i download and upload files from work everdaay and never get cap whit ool ,,,,and like i said my speed are great ;;;;
Download Speed: 27101 kbps (3387.6 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 1559 kbps (194.9 KB/sec transfer rate) | |
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| TX Tech
join:2005-10-17
Lewisville, TX | What are you missing? The speeds of MoCA are 270 mbps. That doesn't really seem like it's a bottleneck of any kind. There is absolutely no quality sacrifice in MoCA. It's a win win for everyone. | |
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aj007
join:2006-03-02
00000 | Does this mean its still fiber to the home/apartment,? Does this mean its still fiber to the home/apartment and so they will just use the existing coaxial in the home if available?
Im confused because it makes it sound like FTTP is turning into HFC instead. | |
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See 10 replies to this post |
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Jonbo298
join:2004-01-12
Council Bluffs, IA
| I'd like to see... the impatient investors go out and lay the fiber themselves and see that it isn't an overnight deal. This takes YEARS to get going in alot of areas.
Oh well..thats investors for ya | |
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sgossard34
Premium
join:2004-08-26
Philadelphia, PA
| TV only? I could be wrong but doesn't this only affect the TV side of FIOS? Data would still be run through CAT 5e from the ONT to the router and then to each computer. As far as I was aware all the current TV installs were converted from CAt 5e to COAX through the converter box anyway. So what has really changed with this decision?
Please correct me if I am wrong. | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| Re: TV only? I think they're going to run the nim's to other rooms that have cable. Of course MOCA puts everything on the same broadcast network. That could eventually be fun for customers.
Broadcast storm anyone
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FIOS chat »www.fioschat.com MacChatter »www.macchatter.com | |
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| | DMS1
join:2005-04-06
Carrollton, TX
| Re: TV only? said by NOCMan :I think they're going to run the nim's to other rooms that have cable. Of course MOCA puts everything on the same broadcast network. That could eventually be fun for customers. Broadcast storm anyone I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. The easiest way to visualize it is to think of taking an existing network and replacing a segment of Cat5 within it by RG6 with a NIM at each end. The network will still be local to you (i.e it won't extend back past the ONT any more than it does now).
I guess that what Verizon are actually thinking is that all future ONTs will have an in-built NIM, which means that in installs where there is already coax near the desired router location, but no Cat5, it is cheaper to just throw in another NIM than to run the Cat5. | |
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| TX Tech
join:2005-10-17
Lewisville, TX
| dms1 hit it on the head. There's a new router out with a NIM inside of it and a NIM inside of the ONT. Completely bridges the Cat5e gap while still providing the same product. Just a faster install and less drilling into your house  | |
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Fiat131
join:2005-02-13
New Castle, DE
1 edit | as I understood I sounds like VZ will be tapping cable lines inside the home in order to provide broadband.
We'll have the choice of getting TV signal from Comcast and broadband from Verizon over the same coax line instead of getting everything from Comcast????.... makes sense, anybody???... and how secure would that be????
Correct me if I'm wrong. | |
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| TX Tech
join:2005-10-17
Lewisville, TX | Re: as I understood No. If we're using the coax in your house, Comcast is not able to use them, and vice versa. | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | basically plug the cable co house side coax into the ONT (or NIM next to ONT), then replace existing cable modem with NIM. | |
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majortom1981
join:2004-08-26
Lindenhurst, NY
| ugh so much stupidity Coax does not slow anything down. Coax doesn't even get used to its potential.
Cablevisions network can give the same speeds as verizon does for the same or lower costs.
If verizon wanted to start fttc you would still get your same speeds.
Its not the medium that the data is traveling through its the technology of the node that is the problem | |
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metoo75
@alcatel.com | Re: ugh so much stupidity So true. People don't know that coax as a transmission medium has much more bandwidth than twisted pairs. | |
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macrospect
All The Little Stuff
Premium
join:2005-08-25
Doylestown, PA
·Comcast
| Re: ugh so much stupidity said by metoo75 :
So true. People don't know that coax as a transmission medium has much more bandwidth than twisted pairs.
People dont know this becauseof the caps that are currently being put on it. They think that 6MB/s is the max! | |
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| | majortom1981
join:2004-08-26
Lindenhurst, NY | Re: ugh so much stupidity No verizon uses it for tv. They will basicsally use the existing coax for the tv instead of installing there own.
Has nothing to do with the internet connections. | |
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David
No,there is another.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
clubs:
 ·DIRECTV
 ·magicjack.com
·AT&T Midwest
|  This could be a win-win!!
Cheaper install equals lower prices, maybe they use a interface between the coax and the fiber line, and use the coax to the special modem and such.
This is not a bad move, actually a quite smart one.
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If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this. Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!! | |
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jdir
join:2001-05-04
Santa Clara, CA | So when is SBC going to offer FIOS in CA Especially S.F Bay area - FTTH is what this area need now | |
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Kamaz
join:2006-01-26
Elizabethtown, PA
| Annoying Investors This is why Bose is still a private company, so he can research and build what he wants to without investors telling him what do. Then again Bose is overpriced and doesn't seem better than competitors anyways...
This still isn't a bad idea though, saving money never hurts. It shouldn't reduce quality/speed. And if customers don't like it they can install Cat5 before Verizon comes to hook up Fios. I know if I could get Fios I woiuld prewire my house in a heartbeat, so I could have Fios up and running as fast as possible, and have it done my way. Too bad I'm still stuck with Sprint's crappy dsl (overpriced/slow)...maybe they should change their name to Crawl. | |
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Kamaz
join:2006-01-26
Elizabethtown, PA | Re: Annoying Investors MoCA: "The organization says that its technology supports speeds up to 270 megabits per second. Verizon already uses MoCA to deliver its video-on-demand service to Fios TV customers." Looks like there's no quality/speed problems to worry about. | |
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Trevorm7
join:2005-01-17
Clearwater, FL | It's great! This means you can have tv in every room without a special box! It's great! Stop complaining! WOOT! | |
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boom4
join:2005-10-16
Tarpon Springs, FL
| Install $ I knew this 1 1/2 ago when they mentioned fiber to the house,costs are too high. Thats whay noone was doing it. Verizon had to play catch up, as it was 2005 and they were using cooper wiring still, LOL
This is old news in the bizz, we all knew this a long time ago. I had a piece of dust take down 10 servers we were running off of fiber in a CLEAN ROOM. Ever seen the side of some peoples homes ? Enough said.
Can't wait to see what happens when someone wants a tech out same day for a broken fiber line. Boy you are gonna be mad.... LOL | |
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number_one
join:2001-11-30
Midlothian, VA
1 edit | ignore this oops. meant to post elsewhere. | |
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number_one
join:2001-11-30
Midlothian, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Big deal... Would anyone who gives a dang about this the difference not have the skills to run a simple Cat5 wire from the ONT to your computer yourself? If you care about home networking (like I do) it wouldn't take much to do your own wiring. It's not like Verizon used to wire your whole house with Cat5 or anything like that.
For everyone else, this changes nothing.
Now if only Verizon would speed up their plans to make Fios available in my area... | |
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bobTeatow
join:2003-01-17
Bethel, CT
| MOCA maybe be better than Cat-6! Do any of you guys know what you're talking about?
THere is plenty more potential bandwidth on RG-6 than on cat-X. RG-6 is typically tested and carries 1-3000Mhz over hundreds of feet. Try that with cat-X!
Assuming MOCA technology works...
Why do you care if your 100Mbps ethernet packets come over coax or come over twisted pair? | |
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Verizon Reducing Fios Install Costs
