 |  | TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA
 ·Advanced Stream
| Re: The bidders won't like "open network" requirem quote:
The outline is essentially identical to what EarthLink is building in Anaheim.
Really? Then why is Earthlink building a similar system in Anaheim?
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Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum. | |
| | | 
TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
edit:
October 29th, @12:57PM
| Re: The bidders won't like "open network" requirem said by TACSPEED  : quote:
The outline is essentially identical to what EarthLink is building in Anaheim.
Really? Then why is Earthlink building a similar system in Anaheim? Because their CEO is desperately trying to stem the erosion of his company's market share and trying to keep his company from going broke. And that decision was a bad one IMHO as an experienced investor.
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Join Red Room Forum
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| | | | 
G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Re: The bidders won't like "open network" requirem If you're such an experienced investor, then why are 10 (TEN) companies expected to bid? I mean, by your definition, only the desperate companies will bid on it. So all 10 of those companies are led by idiots? Hmm.. lets do the math.. a poster who has to change his nick every 2 months due to bad karma, or 10 CEO's of experienced data companies. Guess which one I'll give more credence too.
As far as the 'open' part goes. Why is it a loss of money to build an 'open' network? Portland is thinking of the benefits of it's citizens, and giving companies an OPPORTUNITY to provide a service. Guess what if you want to do business in portland, and you want to avoid dealing with the hassles of permitting/etc that the city will make you go through if you don't play by their rules, then you bid on this contract. How is this feature preventing ANY OTHER COMPANY from building their own competing network? It's not.
If you don't like it as an investor, then why don't you tell the company you invest in to go build their own? (hmm.. sort of ironic isn't it, as you're the one who always says that if we don't like our ISP we should go start our own).
(shoe is on the other foot now isn't it...)
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Grand Poobah | |
| | | jazzy112
join:2003-12-05
Fargo, ND
| kinda pointless to be open, in order to be open to different backbones you would have to have a fully bridged system. Do you have any Idea what that would do to latency? Now I can understand, having the ability to use your airport credentials to log on to the system but other than that it's pointless to claim you are "open". In this case say "Boingo", if a user logged on to a "non Boingo" system, then boingo would be responsible for paying the system owner for the use and then billing the customer for the roaming.
This is a totally different scenario than cable or dsl sharing. With cable and dsl sharing, if you chose a wannabe you get a different backbone to the internet. On a wireless system, if you want to use a competitor then you are simply roaming. Nothing about the network will change just because you want to use a wannabe to save a couple bucks, it will most likely end up costing you more. Cellular providers don't have to let competitors customers use their system, however most willingly negotiate with each other to be able to offer better services and create the image of a larger network. | |
| flushls
join:2004-11-02
Joyce, WA | Whatever QWEST should not be allowed to bid My header says it all if they do win PORTLAND should not give them any outs or overages. | |
| 
dadkins
Merry Whatever
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
edit:
October 29th, @01:18PM
| Qwest is a joke! I have a friend that recently moved to Portland... Qwest is a freakin joke! The phone has so much static, her dialup account wouldn't even connect!
Sure, I can see it now! If they run this internet services like the phone, they'll have a bunch of access points with with SNR of 2dB would be great! 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
| 
oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
edit:
October 29th, @01:36PM
| What!?!?! Consumer Choice!?!?! Low prices!?!?!?! We will not stand for this!
Regards,
Your friendly neighborhood cable company
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
| 
clevere1
Premium
join:2002-01-06
Vancouver, WA
 ·Qwest.net
| Portland can't afford it. For one, Portland can't afford to build it themselves. The Entire fricking state is in die straights when it comes to money.
If the companies agree to Portland's terms, let them build it.
They will may more revenue leasing the connection to other companies, and it would be cheaper than having to support "users".
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Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and thought to myself - "Where the hell is the ceiling???" | |
| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Portland can't afford it. Portland can ask for anything they want - if they can get it? that's another question. If a company wants to accept such idiotic terms, then it's their own fault.
So in other words, yea, I foot the bill, take the risk, open my private network to everyone else and stand to loose everything is and or when it fails? I'd like to shake the hand of the CEO of THAT company, as he's walking out the door for the last time and I say "hahahah - bye bye!" 
These are things you put to the voters. Ask them if they want it and tell them the price. Add a half cent sales tax if they want it. When will government stop this BS of making decisions for everyone and start asking the public on these issues? It would server two purposes. 1) Find out if there is even a demand for it. If only 20% say yes, then it's a waste of money. 2) If the people want it bad enough and flip a measly half cent on the sales tax, then the public has paid for it, the city can open the network to providers, create some more tax revenue, etc.. It's just a smarter way to go. | |
| | | jaybird45
join:2002-06-21
Alpharetta, GA | Re: Portland can't afford it. Oregon has no sales tax | |
| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Portland can't afford it. said by jaybird45 :Oregon has no sales tax Maybe that says alot as to why they are in a financial pickle then.
The way I see it, add one, or open up gambling. | |
| | | | | dn0
join:2005-07-05
USA
| Re: Portland can't afford it. I lived in Portland a few years back.
Asking for even a .5% sales tax is political suicide.
This is the same scenario that kept the local cable co's from deploying broadband for years.
I worked for the local cable company when I lived there, and I agreed with there reluctance to deploy broadband if the the city going to force them to allow any schmuck onto THEIR lines (PLines that are 100% bought and paid for and maintained by the cable co).
If the city would not have pulled this, then the people would have had broadband years earlier.
This is just like forcing McDonald's to let BK, Wendy's and anyone else sell there burgers at any McDonald's restaurant.
I see that the City of Portland is still looking for suckers........... | |
| | | | | 
EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
·Verizon Online DSL
edit:
October 29th, @05:05PM
| said by fiberguy :said by jaybird45 :Oregon has no sales tax Maybe that says alot as to why they are in a financial pickle then. The way I see it, add one, or open up gambling. Oregon Lottery dates back to 1985
Oregon Lottery (1985*) »www.oregonlottery.org/welcome.php
• Economic Development $1.2 billion
• Public Education $1.47 billion
• Natural Resource Programs $136.5 million
»www.ost.state.or.us/news/NewsRel···tion.htm
»www.onwardoregon.org/site/apps/n···t=429513
»www.onwardoregon.org/site/apps/n···b=368951
»www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/52.html
...
Nobody loves the sales tax, but it’s fair to say nobody despises it quite as conspicuously as the voters of Oregon. Nine sales tax initiatives have appeared on state ballots; nine have been turned down. The most recent one, in 1993, was defeated by a 78 percent majority.
Life can be fun without a sales tax — or at least it can be a lot simpler. You can buy a cup of coffee priced at 99 cents and hand the clerk 99 cents. And, of course, less-affluent people who spend a higher percentage of their income on goods are benefited. But some of the side effects are not as pleasant. With no sales tax, Oregon is more dependent on income tax receipts than any other state in the country. It gets about three-quarters of its total tax revenue from that one source, double the national average....
»governing.com/gpp/2003/gp3or.htm
P.S. I don't think ANY State should spend Tax money on a wireless network. Spend it on Jails and Roads 1st. | |
| | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Portland can't afford it. I agree - not about tax money either on a wireless network. However, my comment was that if people want it - let them vote for it along with the tax that would pay for it. If the people want it and agree to pay for it? well, then they can have it. And, if the people vote for it and it passes? well, it's their choice and screw the rodes and jails. I believe first and foremost in letting the people speak. It seems to work well in Utah, or was it colorado? One of those two states puts every spending issue before the voters and government grows when the people say so. | |
| | | | | | 
garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| quote:
P.S. I don't think ANY State should spend Tax money on a wireless network. Spend it on Jails and Roads 1st
So all of your drunk drivers will have a cell to go to? Wow, great foresight. Jails and roads. Sad. | |
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EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West | Re: Portland can't afford it. States on the West Coast are letting out Child Molesters after a few years. Not to mention Meth Labs are rampant. If you think Drunk drivers are the largest issue. You are NOT informed at all. | |
| | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| My comment was to let the people vote and make their own choice, but it's clear that some people here think that they know what's better for the people than they themselves do.
I wonder if Illusionist should run for office, because he sure sounds like a politician. | |
| cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| Before Everyone get's excited It never stated the winner can't charge for competitor's access to the "open" network. Additionally the winner get's the city of Portland as an anchor tennant.
So it's easy to see that this would be a lower risk concept than to try and deploy the same size network on your own. | |
| | 
DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
edit:
October 29th, @05:41PM
| Re: Before Everyone get's excited said by cmaenginsb :It never stated the winner can't charge for competitor's access to the "open" network. Additionally the winner get's the city of Portland as an anchor tennant. So it's easy to see that this would be a lower risk concept than to try and deploy the same size network on your own. Ayup, Dead on!
There is no reason that the builder of that system can't set up a gigabit wireless backbone, multihome it with BGP to multiple wireline carriers, and parcel out bandwidth to the local ISPs at a fair rate.
Works with wireline services, and what I find funny is that so many people fail to notice all those dish antennas on Verizon towers...  Broadband wireless has been working quite reliably for decades now.
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How can I improve my WiFi signal? | |
| 
richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR
edit:
October 29th, @05:27PM
| We Don't Need No Stinkin WI-FI Portland does not need public WI-FI. We all ready have a free hotspot in Pioneer Square and plenty of business offer free Internet and not to mention free Internet in our libraries. At the same time, we have gun violence in down town Portland streets and growing meth problem and a brand new jail that is empty because (I blame) mayor Potter refusing to allocate money for the new jail. The money is better spent on police protection than new internet toys. | |
| | 
KeepOnRockin
Music Lover Forever
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Beaverton, OR
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin WI-FI said by richardpor :Portland does not need public WI-FI. We all ready have a free hotspot in Pioneer Square and plenty of business offer free Internet and not to mention free Internet in our libraries. At the same time, we have gun violence in down town Portland streets and growing meth problem and a brand new jail that is empty because (I blame) mayor Potter refusing to allocate money for the new jail. The money is better spent on police protection than new internet toys. Ain't it the truth!
Portland should really focus its $ on its real priorities. | |
| | | SKYWARP
join:2005-02-02
Portland, OR | Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin WI-FI I hate the idea of the city spending money on BS like this, but this project doesn't stand to cost the City much money.
The company who wins the bid has to foot the bill. LOL | |
| |
G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Wow, you didn't actually read the article..
Please point out exactly where it would be 'free' wireless access? The city isn't paying anything. What the city is doing is making it easy (i.e. access to telephone poles, etc), for someone to setup a wireless network. In exchange for that benefit, whomever sets it up agrees to let resellers use it. So once again, please tell me where the word 'free internet access' is mentioned?
Though, I'm a bit surprised you don't support free access. I mean, you have a brand new jail you want to fill up, and the easiest way to do that would be to provide free access to the 'criminals'. You could get all those welfare cheats and minorities off the street by prosecuting them when they download an mp3 from the 'free wireless' network. Lets look how that pans out.
Winners:
Jails : (owned by corporations, not governements anymore) More criminals = more revenue
**AA's : Those people who download MP3's would never buy them anyway, better to just put them in jail.
Patriot Act : Proof that it works, look at all the internet terrorists we caught!
State Govt : All the welfare cheats with their 200.00 nikes would be put in jail for download rap mp3's.
Bush : "We've prosecuted more terrorists than ever before"
Republicans : We're tough on crime, we put those welfare cheat, rap listening gangsters and their encryption terrorist who live in portland behind bars for a LONG time! Vote for us, we're the only ones who can protect you!
So, to summarize, I am forced to question your patriotism. Any REAL patriot would support free wireless, as the benefits it will provide to a law and order society far outweigh the costs.
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Grand Poobah | |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
| Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin WI-FI said by G_Poobah :Wow, you didn't actually read the article.. Please point out exactly where it would be 'free' wireless access? The city isn't paying anything. What the city is doing is making it easy (i.e. access to telephone poles, etc), for someone to setup a wireless network. In exchange for that benefit, whomever sets it up agrees to let resellers use it. So once again, please tell me where the word 'free internet access' is mentioned? So far ... so good ...
said by G_Poobah :Though, I'm a bit surprised you don't support free access. I mean, you have a brand new jail you want to fill up, and the easiest way to do that would be to provide free access to the 'criminals'. You could get all those welfare cheats and minorities off the street by prosecuting them when they download an mp3 from the 'free wireless' network. Lets look how that pans out. But you wander off into the absurd ...
said by G_Poobah :Winners: Jails : (owned by corporations, not governements anymore) More criminals = more revenue Jails are probably not "profit generating" institutions. Yes coorporations are managing some prisions but that is because the state is so DAMN inefficient that it is actually cheapre to hire a corporation to build and manage the prision than it is to allow the state to do it.
said by G_Poobah : **AA's : Those people who download MP3's would never buy them anyway, better to just put them in jail. There is a brillinat ASSertion. You can't get money from a prisioner and last I checked NOBODY ever went to jail for a copyright violation.
said by G_Poobah : Patriot Act : Proof that it works, look at all the internet terrorists we caught! Flowed by an even stranger ASSertion...
said by G_Poobah : State Govt : All the welfare cheats with their 200.00 nikes would be put in jail for download rap mp3's. What?
said by G_Poobah : Bush : "We've prosecuted more terrorists than ever before" Republicans : We're tough on crime, we put those welfare cheat, rap listening gangsters and their encryption terrorist who live in portland behind bars for a LONG time! Vote for us, we're the only ones who can protect you! Finally we get to something which EXPLAINS this assininity ... You are trying to tie this to your politics. Makes PERFECTLY good sense to me ... considering the source.
said by G_Poobah :So, to summarize, I am forced to question your patriotism. Any REAL patriot would support free wireless, as the benefits it will provide to a law and order society far outweigh the costs. Take your damn politics to the Blue Room, Poobah. That is why those rooms were created, so that the fanatics could collect there and rant with relative impunity. This stupidity has no place in a serious discussion.
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How can I improve my WiFi signal? | |
| | | | plattypus1
join:2005-04-08
Riverside, CA
 ·Charter VOIP
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin WI-FI Take your damn politics to the Blue Room, Poobah. That is why those rooms were created, so that the fanatics could collect there and rant with relative impunity. This stupidity has no place in a serious discussion. Pardon me for intruding... but isn't a discussion about a government's decision with regards to municipal wifi service inherently political? | |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
| Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin WI-FI said by plattypus1 :Take your damn politics to the Blue Room, Poobah. That is why those rooms were created, so that the fanatics could collect there and rant with relative impunity. This stupidity has no place in a serious discussion. Pardon me for intruding... but isn't a discussion about a government's decision with regards to municipal wifi service inherently political? Yep, it is. It is about the politics of that municipality and has nothing to do with the horse shit he posted ... which decidedly belongs elsewhere as it is clearly off topic and flaming.
Surely you understand that ...
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How can I improve my WiFi signal? | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| "Take your damn politics to the Blue Room"
Umm, the Original Poster started out by making this a POLITICAL COMPLAINT about portland having wireless. That means the topic was based on the POLITICS of portland providing wireless, so political opinions are perfectly valid.
The whole point of wandering 'into the absurd' is sarcasm. I'll need to make sure I write 'The next part is sarcastic' for those who are lacking the intellectual capabilities to understand sarcasm when it's posted.
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Grand Poobah | |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
edit:
October 30th, @04:29PM
| Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin WI-FI said by G_Poobah :"Take your damn politics to the Blue Room" Umm, the Original Poster started out by making this a POLITICAL COMPLAINT about portland having wireless. That means the topic was based on the POLITICS of portland providing wireless, so political opinions are perfectly valid. The whole point of wandering 'into the absurd' is sarcasm. I'll need to make sure I write 'The next part is sarcastic' for those who are lacking the intellectual capabilities to understand sarcasm when it's posted. "Lacking the intellectual capabilities to understand?"
Lol ... name calling ... isn't that what you do when you have no other recourse?
Seriously though ... The Blue Room is the Blue Door just to the left of the Red Room. You can check your political pandering there.
The gratuitous insults on the other hand are taken with due consideration of the source. Enjoy yourself.;)
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How can I improve my WiFi signal? | |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| Still running around playing forum cop I see. The only reason I click on the MUNI stories is to watch the parade, and posters like you never let me down.
Suggestion: Why not just ignore posters you have such disdain for rather than post an equally long diatribe that ends up personally attacking the post and the poster (in bold font, no less)?
If you were to debate the poster on content and disagree with his/her views, then that's different. But to quote & slander only prolongs that which you claim to dislike.
Senseless. | |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
edit:
October 30th, @04:30PM
| Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin WI-FI said by Titus Pullo :Still running around playing forum cop I see. The only reason I click on the MUNI stories is to watch the parade, and posters like you never let me down. ummm...
said by Titus Pullo :Suggestion: Why not just ignore posters you have such disdain for rather than post an equally long diatribe that ends up personally attacking the post and the poster (in bold font, no less)? Good advice, you'll be supporting it by taking it yourself in the future, right?:)
said by Titus Pullo :If you were to debate the poster on content and disagree with his/her views, then that's different. But to quote & slander only prolongs that which you claim to dislike. Debating the irrelevant merely distracts from the purpose of the thread and thereby also prolongs that which I claim to dislike. It is more pertinent to simply redirect the poster to the appropriate forum.
said by Titus Pullo :Senseless. Indeed, kindly register my complete agreement. You are wasting your time and mine. Why not just pretend you didn't see my post?
ROFLMAO.
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How can I improve my WiFi signal? | |
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richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR
| Hey Gus I had a meth lab across got busted I am begin to wonder there might be a few in my apartment complex.
Your only right about one thing, I was mistaken about the bidding process but I am still confused about it. I smell a rat. Why does a company need to put out the bid in the first place? Why just let any company build the network and let the chips fall where they may instead of second by giving exclusive contract to one. Also why must the company bid a price? If a company is going to foot the bill why my City government ask?
I am not against any private company providing free WI-FI like Coffee People but I am against government trying to create a government controlled monopoly buy providing free internet and force me to foot the bill. If you want WI-FI here is a hint: moster.com
As for the rest of your comments, see ya on the protest march.
Your Bush supporting opposition, | |
| flushls
join:2004-11-02
Joyce, WA
| There were 2 boys Standing on the sidewalk watching 2 Daddylong legs mate.
The boy from washington asked the boy from oregon "are both those spiders daddy long legs??"
The boy from oregon replied "yes they are both daddylong legs".
The boy from washington stomped both the spiders with his foot and said "that may fly down oregon but not up here."
 | |
| | seederjed
join:2005-02-28
Vancouver, WA
| Re: There were 2 boys Absolutely hilarious! As a "border town dweller" living in Vancouver, Wa. I have the best of both worlds - no sales tax in Oregon, and no income tax in Washington. BTW, there is a reason we call Portland thw " Moscow on the Willamette" and Eugene the "Socialist Republic of Eugene" This proposal will be screwed up just like so many other things in Portland, Ex. see the exodus of ppl moving to Vancouver for better schools.
BTW I believe the spider analogy referred to the fact that Oregon recently allowed the viewing of live sex acts in clubs, because it's protected under the first amendment. | |
| | | | | | | flushls
join:2004-11-02
Joyce, WA | Re: There were 2 boys FLMAO ....
Almost true at least in Seattle and east. | |
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Portland Muni Wi-Fi
The bidders won't like "open network" requirement
