 RogerDucky
join:2002-01-04
Plano, TX | Pretty Vague... That statement is basically, "We might do it, or we might not. Who knows?"
Not very interesting by itself. | |
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some guy
@milwwi.ameritech | Great Plan p2p users will switch ports
they aren't that stupid
p2p is the reason people buy broadband-no p2p, no customers | |
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Goober
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | Re: Great Plan Pretty gross generalization. I don't do it for that reason and neither do my parents. I would imagine that we're pretty much garden-variety users. | |
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bereasonable
@cable.rogers
| Re: Great Plan then why pay for high speed if you are "garden variety" users??? there's just absolutely no point to having high speed if all you do is read blogs and upload school projects, send emails... blah blah blah... people use bt for legit reasons, some don't. there's no way to police what is legit and what isn't. take for example 3dgamers.com where you can download updates for games and demos via BT. are you saying i should wait 5 weeks to download a 300mb demo, paying 45.00$ a month for "HIGH SPEED" ??? | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
edit:
October 26th, @05:53PM
| Re: Great Plan Cause I want the low latency and don't want to tie up my phone line. Broadband existed long before the popular P2P craze. | |
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bereasonable
@cable.rogers | Re: Great Plan get high speed ultra lite then if you don't wanna tie up your phone line? do you know what you are talking about? dsl doesn't tie up your home phone line either...? you confuse me. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
edit:
October 26th, @06:55PM
| Re: Great Plan said by bereasonable :
get high speed ultra lite then if you don't wanna tie up your phone line? do you know what you are talking about? dsl doesn't tie up your home phone line either...? you confuse me.
Ultralite...what the hell is that? Broadband is broadband whether it's 768kbps DSL or 7.1Mbps DSL. And no, DSL doesn't tie of my phone line...that's the whole point which is why the original poster is in error. There are plenty of reasons to have broadband and none of them include P2P.
Yes, you are easily confused.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
 ·Cox HSI
| said by oliphant  :Yes, you are easily confused. Which probably explains the anonymous post: couldn't figure out how to register.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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Fatal Vector
@sfldmi.ameritech
| Re: Great Plan
And, here we go with the "anonymous post" comeback again.I think you need to get a clue, myself. Seems that you believe that anyone who disagrees with you, or, any "Member" of this forum automatically posts anonymously. Myself, I dont see the difference in being registered or not. It's still my opinion and, if the operators of this site thought like you, there would be no anonymous posting, now would there? Perhaps there is so as to stir up the pot and encourage fresh thinking from time to time?
But, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong, even though it's unlikely. But then, you feel free to pay through the nose for your "premium" membership for whatever "extras" and such that it gives you. | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
edit:
October 29th, @03:09PM
| Re: Great Plan said by Fatal Vector :
But then, you feel free to pay through the nose for your "premium" membership for whatever "extras" and such that it gives you.
Wasn't aware that a one-time $10 fee was "through the nose". Then again, I'm not from some backwards-assed part of the world where $10 is considered such big money as to be classed "thorugh the nose". If you had a spouse or kids, I imagine they must just love gift-giving holidays.
As to why I voluntarily pay for a service that is free? It's to try to help support something that is fundamentally a good service. There's lots of things that I hit the "donate" button for that I technically don't have to. Then again, I was brought up not to be a freaking free-loader. I was brought up to try to show at least a modicum of appreciation for good efforts. Obviously, our upbringings differed.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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Fatal Vector
@sfldmi.ameritech
| Re: Great Plan
Now see? A perfect example:
"Then again, I'm not from some backwards-assed part of the world where $10 is considered such big money as to be classed "thorugh the nose". If you had a spouse or kids, I imagine they must just love gift-giving holidays."
You profess to be intelligent, yet you have to resort to this kind of attack and belittle type of post, instead of saying something intelligent, or, attempting to engage me in conversation. What's the matter? Did I hurt your widdle feelings?
"Then again, I was brought up not to be a freaking free-loader. I was brought up to try to show at least a modicum of appreciation for good efforts. Obviously, our upbringings differed."
Isn't that nice? Yes, it is your privlege to pay for something that is free if you like, it just doesn't necessarilly make you very smart. I'm sure that the operators of this site do very well as far as income goes, with their ads, membership fees and what not. The point that seems to escape you is that the operators of this board allow anonymous posting and set no apparent limit on same, I would assume because they feel that such posts have the potential to raise the quality of the board. That being the case, one cannot be a "freeloader" if one is allowed to use the board in this manner, now can one? Since it stands to reason that if the operators of this board did not want "freeloaders" on their site, they would not allow anonymous posting.
I have no clue as to your upbringing. However, it does seem to me from a general perusal of your posts that you are a somewhat angry individual. However, I wont ask why that is because, frankly, I dont care and, in any case, I'm not going to lower myself to the same tactics that you seem to like.
There is one thing about such tactics I will comment on, however. They are a sign of a intellectually bankrupt mind that has nothing of substance to add and is, in the end, nothing but childish lashing out. | |
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r81984
Tough to beat.
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Morgan City, LA | p2p started way before broadband. I used to use napster on my dial up way before broadband was popular or even close to being widespread. | |
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bereasonable
@cable.rogers | Re: Great Plan what point are you trying to make? p2p started before broadband -- so what? go try to download a 600mb demo on dial up and tell me how many days it takes. have you played on-line games using dial up? try it then come back and make a point. | |
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| | | | | | Fluker
join:2005-04-07
West Lafayette, IN | Re: Great Plan Thank you.
Broadband does have legit uses.
Although my 300gb monthly indicates otherwise..... | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Re: Great Plan 300gb/month?
so, your traffic looks a lot like mine!
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Grand Poobah | |
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LittlePoohBah
@mindspring.com
 from:
IPingUPing
| Re: Great Plan You need to get out more. There's actually other things to do then seeing how much you use the internet on a week to week basis. Try getting a girlfriend | |
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heels_fan
No Tag Needed
Premium
join:2003-02-07
Columbia, TN
| Broadband internet use is so overated | |
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Fatal Vector
@sfldmi.ameritech
| Re: Great Plan since it's Halloween, I'll play "Devils advocate"
The only reason anyone would go over a 300 Gb cap is if they were running a commercial server of some kind, spamming, serving pirated software, using a residential connection for business use, etc. Somehow, I just cant see what the hell anyone would be downloading with bit torrent either to use that much capacity, allthough I'm sure a few could find something.
The average Joe box of rocks is not going to come anywhere near that on a monthly basis and the fact is, you are not supposed to be doing such things on a residential connection, now are you? The ISP has every legitimate reason to stop you hogging bandwith that you shouldn't be hogging. If you're running a server, etc, then you are supposed to be on a business connection, aren't you?
I love watching the pseudo intellectuals here allways whining about how they need more bandwidth and speed, when in reality, most of them dont fully utilize the speed they allready have It's the same mindset as when Intel and AMD were selling CPU's on the basis of speed and I bet they were some of the ones allways "upgrading" time after time every few months because they just HAD to be on the "bleeding edge".
Note how the speed game is currently non existent except, perhaps, in the marketing of video cards to the gamers who still have that same mindset, since business and consumer got wise to the markrting ploy and, also note how the prices of computers have come crashing down, especially with the flood of older P2's and P3's, which are still quite usable for most people, on the market.
I suppose the answer is, as allways: If you go for the marketing scam, you deserve what you get. If you want truly "unlimited" Bandwidth, then you are going to have to pay for it by getting a business connection. To the average joe, 300 GB a month IS unlimited. To the few of you who do use that kind of bandwidth, it's not. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Fluker
join:2005-04-07
West Lafayette, IN
edit:
October 29th, @01:22PM
| Re: Great Plan I actually would say I don't use what I have "just because its there". I do have a somewhat top of the line computer but it serves a purpose. I have 500 gigs in storage and a 3000+ overclocked cpu, but this is because video editing is my main need for pushing my computer to its limits. I spent about as little as possible getting a radeon 7000 video card because that is all I really need.
check indyskate.com and about 90% of the videos found on that site were captured in dv, edited, and uploaded from this computer. Grabbing pictures and videos not found on the site from my computers is the larger part of why my bandwidth usage is so high and FTP'ing a 4gb avi to and from other people that like to play with video is not uncommon for me.
And very technically I do have a business class connection. I really don't know though because it's billed through my rent. But I would assume that anybody wiring an entire apartment with symmetrical 10mps could only find an isp willing to wire it as business usage.
My ISP is wintek and to paraphrase my landlord "We don't care just don't download kiddy porn" | |
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IPingUPing
KJ4FIK
Premium
join:2002-08-30
Smyrna, GA
clubs:
| What P2P is is just a way for cheap companies to push the connectivity costs off to the users and ISP's. If you want to distribute a patch for your game buy a pipe or don't get in the business. I can probably count on my hand the legitimate users of P2P, let's be real about this. | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
moderated:
October 26th, @10:40PM
| said by bereasonable :
what point are you trying to make? p2p started before broadband -- so what? go try to download a 600mb demo on dial up and tell me how many days it takes. So what? Just because you can't wait for a download, doesn't mean that slower methods aren't viable.
said by bereasonable :
have you played on-line games using dial up? try it then come back and make a point.
In fact, yes, I have played on-line games over dial up. I've played them on dial-up (anyone remember the old acoustic-coupler modems?), ISDN, DSL and on OC links (I've played online games since the late 80s). What's your point? Depending on how well the game is coded for a given media will dictate how well the game plays on that media. What used to really suck was playing on a fast link versus people on slower links because of the way that games used to compensate for the slower clients.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
edit:
October 26th, @06:54PM
| said by r81984 :p2p started way before broadband. I used to use napster on my dial up way before broadband was popular or even close to being widespread. I had Cox@Home in late 1996...before Napster was a wet spot on the mattress. No, P2P didn't start way before broadband.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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stickstickly
@insightBB.com | Re: Great Plan And USENET and IRC were around long before Cox@Home, so what's your point? | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
| Re: Great Plan said by stickstickly :
And USENET and IRC were around long before Cox@Home, so what's your point?
You're forgetting about FTP and FSP. Not exactly P2P, but they were popular for grabbing files.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
edit:
October 26th, @10:03PM
| said by stickstickly :
And USENET and IRC were around long before Cox@Home, so what's your point?
That P2P isn't the reason people have broadband as asserted here »Great Plan
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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Galford
Premium
join:2001-02-24
Kingstree, SC | he is right i had napsters too and audiogalaxy and winmx long before Bellsouth rolled out its DSL | |
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| | | radarman
join:2005-06-01
Odenton, MD
| I have a broadband connection because FreeBSD (at the time) was releasing new versions a lot more frequently, and broadband made running 'cvsup ports' and 'portupgrade -rR ' feasible. (try that on a dialup...)
As a bonus, I can access my system from work or while travelling, and check on things. This is one MAJOR reason I have broadband.
More lately, though, I have enjoyed having it because I save a crap load of money by using Vonage for all of my long distance calls. I figure I probably save over a $100/mo (in all seriousness, probably closer to $150/mo) by not paying per minute.
And no, I don't run any P2P apps. | |
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bereasonable
@cable.rogers
| Re: Great Plan my argumement is, the internet is evolving and the needs of each individual customer varies. perhaps some company needs to exist for people alone like myself who aren't just garden variety users. we may be using the connection for different reasons. but we both expect to get what we pay for. am i right or am i wrong? | |
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| | | | | RuralCentrNY
join:2005-09-12
Remsen, NY
| Re: Great Plan Problem is it wouldn't be profitable to support only hardcore users. You need mostly people who just do a little browsing, etc. to support that 5% of people who use over 50% of the bandwidth (or whatever that statistic is, I know it's something fairly close to that).
And as far as the P2P discussion goes, it honestly got big right about at the same point that broadband became widely available to most any type of city area. I remember this being somewhere around '98-'99, but we were in a very small city..
But usenet, FTP, http and maybe even gopher if I remember right were a way to get lots of legit and non-legit stuff for years and years before that. | |
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Goober
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | Re: Great Plan Right you are. My earliest recollection of grabbing files goes back to the usenet and gopher days. 1989 is my earliest recollection. | |
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Goober
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·WOW Internet and C..
·Comcast
| said by bereasonable :
then why pay for high speed if you are "garden variety" users??? there's just absolutely no point to having high speed if all you do is read blogs and upload school projects, send emails... blah blah blah... people use bt for legit reasons, some don't. there's no way to police what is legit and what isn't. take for example 3dgamers.com where you can download updates for games and demos via BT. are you saying i should wait 5 weeks to download a 300mb demo, paying 45.00$ a month for "HIGH SPEED" ???
I'm not saying anything about what YOU can do. I'm just saying that there're many more uses for broadband than p2p.
I'm 40 years old, I'm not just reading blogs and uploading school projects. And that may just point to the difference in thought.
Kiddees may not have any other reason for high speed access, but those that aren't under 15 years old have potentially more useful things to do on the internet. | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
| said by bereasonable :
then why pay for high speed if you are "garden variety" users??? there's just absolutely no point to having high speed if all you do is read blogs and upload school projects, send emails... blah blah blah... Sorry, but P2P isn't the only reason to have big bandwidth. There are those of us who actually use our broadband for work. Telepresence and telecommuting both benefit greatly from broadband. This is especially so if you're having to work with graphical applications that run remotely but display locally.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| said by some guy :
p2p users will switch ports
they aren't that stupid
p2p is the reason people buy broadband-no p2p, no customers
LOL...oh yeah...everyone on broadband is on there for P2P. LMAO Wishful thinking there sport.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| said by some guy :
p2p users will switch ports
they aren't that stupid
p2p is the reason people buy broadband-no p2p, no customers
And the ISP's will buy already existing hardware that recognizes traffic type no matter what port they are on.
--
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Join Red Room Forum
My Web Page | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY | Re: Great Plan yes, but I'll encrypt my traffic, then they can't tell what kind of traffic it is..
It's coming, it can't be stopped.
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Grand Poobah | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
| Re: Great Plan said by G_Poobah :yes, but I'll encrypt my traffic, then they can't tell what kind of traffic it is.. It's coming, it can't be stopped. One needn't see the packet payload to derive a throttleable utilization pattern from the data sent.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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greatideas
| My point exactly,
Who needs REALLY fast speeds? Believe it or not, (hey ripley) alot of 'winners' make money from p2p: hardware companies, media (blanks) companies, right down to the guy that puts the fiber/dsl/cable line to the building. These people earn a living, stop p2p, and you plug-up your return on investment, ie shoot yourself in the foot. The tricky part is when telcos become telco/cablecos and have a vested interest in skimming from both pots, things will get interesting, to say the least... | |
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| whoamIoramI
join:2004-05-17
Jersey City, NJ
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| the last time I used P2P was when napster was free back in 2000 or so.
I have broadband bec I need it for my school. My profs post powerpoints ranging from 5-80mb...just would take too long with dial up.
My parents have broadband as do my brothers and none use P2P. So that is 4 households right there with broadband but no P2P usage. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
edit:
October 26th, @09:14PM
| said by some guy :
p2p users will switch ports
they aren't that stupid
p2p is the reason people buy broadband-no p2p, no customers
port wont matter when they're blocking it at the packet level.
edit: typo | |
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tomkb
Premium
join:2000-11-15
Avon, OH
clubs: | yawn Just program your p2p app to use port 80. | |
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hamburglar_
join:2002-04-29
Columbus, OH
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: yawn said by tomkb :Just program your p2p app to use port 80. Real Packet Shapers are a little smarter than that these days. Port is irrelevant. | |
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denzilla74
@sc.charter
| sheesh! Dear Cable/DSL Providers,
Either offer a damn highspeed connection or GTF out of the way for someone who will. We don't need to be controlled like children. For the amount we've been charged over the years, you should've been upgrading your hardware instead of hoarding and now slamming the consumer for your mistake. | |
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Juke Box
Free From Marketing
Premium
join:2001-01-29
Bar & Grill
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: sheesh! said by denzilla74 :
Dear Cable/DSL Providers,
Either offer a damn highspeed connection or GTF out of the way for someone who will. We don't need to be controlled like children. They are not treating anyone like children. If anything, they are milking consumers like cows.
As long as you are willing to pay for what you perceive as said by denzilla74 :
...hoarding and now slamming the consumer for your (ISP's) mistake.
then what changes that are made will only trickle in.
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Do you listen to Tangerine Dream? | |
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ranfot
join:2005-06-15
Brooklyn, NY | move if companies like sbc, cablevision and other who block ports, cap or throttle customers- why dont those customers move to different ISP and stop b**ching. I guess becuase you want your internet connection to be cheap - that what you get. | |
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el scorcho
Cupid Stunt
join:2000-12-01
Elmhurst, NY
clubs: | just a thought. i'd be very interested in any major ISP filtering out BT connections as it is a legitimate distribution channel for legal wares (podcast enclosures, linux distros, etc). | |
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IPingUPing
KJ4FIK
Premium
join:2002-08-30
Smyrna, GA
clubs: | Re: just a thought. What percentage of that is podcast and what percentage is illegal? 99% illegal I would bet. P2P is just a vast wasteland of crime with using this kind of crap as a thin veil to have legal cover. | |
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bereasonable
@cable.rogers
moderated:
October 26th, @10:31PM
| Re: just a thought. 99% illegal? and you did a study on this? | |
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Daymon Hoag
@buckeyecom.net
| Let them block their ports I give it less than four years for BPL to be available on a large scale anyway. From what I read this form of delivery will make broadband readily available just about anywhere and dirt cheap ta boot.
»www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2···ine.html | |
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BellSouth Exec: Might Block App Ports 'Someday'
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