 JPGrimmace
join:2003-09-16
Pontiac, MI | What? So you mean you have to make an investment and deal with competition to be successful? Who'd of thunk it? | |
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 | David95037
join:2003-04-16
Morgan Hill, CA | Re: What? BPL always did attract the stupid . . . . | |
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nospin2
| Re: What? PPL using the older BPL chipsets Earthlink using Ambient`s 200 mbps BPL chipsets...
also PANASONIC had newer 170 mbps BPL chipsets...
DS2 200 mbps Ham Radio-friendly BPL chipsets !!! | |
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nospin2
| Re: What? PPL using the older BPL chipsets [September 14, 2005]
DS2's Radio Friendly BPL Technology Puts Competition on the Defensive
DALLAS --(Business Wire)-- Sept. 14, 2005 -- Speaking at 2005 UPLC Annual Conference, Victor Dominguez, DS2's Director of Strategy and Standardization, outlined the reasons why DS2's 200Mbps powerline solution is the only regulatory compliant technology available for BPL commercial deployments.
Dominguez was dismissive about claimed alternatives to DS2.
Mr Dominguez was adamant about competitors claims "I think that we have put the competition on the defensive. Our competitors would love to have the flexible notching capabilities that we have for BPL and In-Home PLCs, but the truth is that they don't. DS2 has had dynamic notching since its first chip set and can mitigate radio interference in a programmable way and other PLC chipsets do not. We would like to thank our competition for the rumours propagated at several press interviews, they have been attracting attention towards one of the main competitive advantages of our technology, we mastered programmable notches in a 200 Mbps chipset more than 2 years ago, since then we have been shipping in volume for BPL and In-Home applications, and still remains to be proven that competition can follow us."
DS2's technology is well known in the BPL industry for being one of the first proponents of programmable notching in powerline communications, as the best method for addressing potential interference to radio services. DS2's 200 Mbps BPL technology, available in silicon since 2003, already implements this dynamic notching functionality, which has been tested in the field, in several commercial BPL deployments, and demonstrated in several BPL industry trade shows.
"Other competing technologies have some notches, but they are fixed, including the most advanced designs from followers (on top of that they exhibit performance below 40% our speed). This means that they fall short for the demands of regulators and consumers everywhere from the FCC to the European Commission who require that frequency bands can be selectively notched out, even after the equipment has been deployed. Operators deploying non-DS2 based solutions risk having their equipment withdrawn from the field because once it is out there, there is nothing that can be done to prevent interfence with radio signals. With DS2, however, any issues can be resolved even when the equipment is in the field by remotely disabling problematic frequencies thus complying with today's or future regulatory requirements and automatically avoiding any radio signals in any part of the world". Mr Dominguez placed special emphasis on the radio friendliness of the system.
In February this year, DS2's 200 Mbps powerline technology has been chosen as the baseline technology for the European utilities developing PLC standards to accelerate the adoption of low cost, high performance broadband access PLC. As part of the selection process, an extensive set of tests were performed, including notching functionality benchmarks for avoidance of potential interferences to radio services. In addition, report from Ofcom, the British telecom regulator recognised the significant advance represented "The flexibility of the DS2 product, with its programmable spectrum mask and downstream notching capability, represents a significant step towards a more EMC friendly PLT solution."
Specifically, DS2 BPL system can implement notches in any frequency band, not only in radio amateur bands. This means that the system can be adapted to changing regulations in several countries. For example, FCC recently prohibited BPL Operators to use frequencies within defined "excluded bands". Only products based on DS2 technology can be adapted to this new regulation remotely from the Operator's Network Operation Centre, while products based on competing chips would need to replace the hardware in the field.
DS2 200 Mbps the technology which underlies the majority of commercial access PLC and IPTV/ADSL deployments worldwide and has been built into equipment manufactured by the leading US, European and Asian BPL manufacturers. It is used by XDSL/IPTV operators like Telefonica and electricity giants such as Consolidated Edison, Duke Energy, EdF, EdP, Iberdrola and Endesa, to drive their broadband over powerline offerings. As of September 2005, the estimated number of consumers and businesses that enjoy access to IPTV, internet and voice-over IP services is estimated at 500,000, with more than two million homes passed in deployments with more than 30 power utilities world-wide.
About DS2
DS2 is the leading supplier of silicon and software for Power line Communications (PLC). DS2's award winning power line technology delivers data rates in excess of 200 Mbps to support multiple simultaneous video-streams, voice and data applications at low cost. DS2 is driving standardization activity in many international bodies.
About UPLC
www.uplc.org
About UPA
The Universal Powerline Association (UPA) is an International not-for-profit trade association working to harmonize global standards and regulations in the fast developing powerline communications market. | |
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| | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | Re: What? PPL using the older BPL chipsets Right on cue.
Think you can avoid the truth? Guess again.
you = owned
/end self now. | |
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| | | | | David95037
join:2003-04-16
Morgan Hill, CA
 ·Be There
| Re: What? PPL using the older BPL chipsets BPL will grossly pollute every frequency it uses, notching a few frequencies is no real help as every frequency has a user, aeronautical, marine, military, broadcast, FEMA etc.
When faced with complaints the track record of BPL operators is typically one of deny, ignore and delay, “notching” is just more spin from serial liars.
No amount of gold leaf on a lump of e.coli will ever make BPL a viable technology. | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| said by nospin2 :
Earthlink using Ambient`s 200 mbps BPL chipsets... Actually the chipsets are DS2's. PPL's Amperion equipment used DS2 chips, too.
also PANASONIC had newer 170 mbps BPL chipsets...
DS2 200 mbps Ham Radio-friendly BPL chipsets !!!
Homeplug says their chips are "ham-friendly", too.
I think this spin cycle is about over. Time to take out the emperor's clothes. | |
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Tony Whelan
@rr.com
| If you throw enough mud, some of it falls off I mean really.
So every emerging technology has a filed trial that turns into a pilot that turns into a successful full scale rollout? C'mon people, is it any surprise that there are utilities that don't feel that this is for them and their consumers?
There are still plenty that do.
»www.uplc.utc.org/file_depot/0-10···ated.pdf
Tony | |
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David95037
join:2003-04-16
Morgan Hill, CA | Yet more confirmation that BPL has failed Many better ways to deliver broadband
DSL
Cable
Wi-Fi
WiMax
Fiber
All are faster and they all work | |
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aztecnology
The Autumn wind is a Raider
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA
| Re: Yet more confirmation that BPL has failed said by David95037  :Many better ways to deliver broadband DSL Cable Wi-Fi WiMax Fiber All are faster and they all work And they all cost money to provision/deliver/maintain/upgrade service. So $h|t or get off the pot... and looks like they fell off...
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.:|:.Tell a man there are 300 billion stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch it to be sure. .:|:. | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
 ·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Yet more confirmation that BPL has failed It's one thing to spend money to deliver the product. It's quite another to spend exceeding amounts of money to deliver the product.
Data doesn't travel far over the meduim BPL uses. Having to install a repeater "every so many feet" just to deliver the product over a square mile isn't economical.
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:: my trivial ramblings :: | |
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aztecnology
The Autumn wind is a Raider
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA
| Re: Yet more confirmation that BPL has failed said by DaSneaky1D :It's one thing to spend money to deliver the product. It's quite another to spend exceeding amounts of money to deliver the product. Data doesn't travel far over the meduim BPL uses. Having to install a repeater "every so many feet" just to deliver the product over a square mile isn't economical. Depends on what "exceeding" means? Installing repeaters along with their infrastructure is a lot cheaper than trying to build a fiber optic network over the same distances....
The bottomm line is that they don't think they can run a profitable operation with BPL. Better to cut their losses now instead of throwing good money after bad..
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.:|:.Tell a man there are 300 billion stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch it to be sure. .:|:. | |
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mishaq
Premium
join:2004-01-24
Richardson, TX
clubs: | Perhaps Power companies could use all the pole space they have along with their existing crews and run fiber as back haul along their power routes, and then for the last mile do wireless.
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Damn you FCC! | |
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furlonium
Computer Over? Virus equals Very Yes?
join:2002-05-08
Bethlehem, PA | Damn I see tons of "PPLBroadband" wireless AP's too, and I was going to sing up with them....oh well  | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA | Re: Damn I'm actually a bit sad about this. I'll now have to drive 2 hours and 30 minutes to hear BPL interference rather than an easy 45 minute commute  | |
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| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Damn said by rf_engineer :I'm actually a bit sad about this. I'll now have to drive 2 hours and 30 minutes to hear BPL interference rather than an easy 45 minute commute :D:D:D | |
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BPLSUCKS
@comcast.net | What freqs What frequencys have you seen the BPL interfearence on? | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: What freqs said by BPLSUCKS :
What frequencys have you seen the BPL interfearence on?
It's been awhile since I've driven the PPL systems, but you could easily find stuff on the 7, 14, 18, 21, 24 and 28 Mhz bands when I frequented the area. The Amperion systems place carriers every 1.1 kHz, so it's pretty easy to recognize it.
I had heard the Emmaus Main.net system was hitting 3 to 30 Mhz, though I never drove that site. There's a video of that site here: »www.arrl.org/video/BPL_Emmaus.mpg | |
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BPLSUCKS
@comcast.net | Re: What freqs I'm getting it here on my hometowns test site all the way into f.m freqs. I no radio junkie but I'm guessing thats a bad thing | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: What freqs said by BPLSUCKS :
I'm getting it here on my hometowns test site all the way into f.m freqs. I no radio junkie but I'm guessing thats a bad thing
It's pretty doubtful you're getting interference on FM broadcast from BPL. As far as I know, all of the systems stop at 80 Mhz, below the FM band. You may want to look for a local interference source like a computer power supply. | |
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| | | | w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO | Re: What freqs The third harmonic of 28Mhz is right at the beginning of the FM band. Also the third harmonic is always stronger than the second. | |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | Come out, come out wherever you are..... Where is the BPL troll with his stock tips and articles on how cheap and successful BPL is being deployed.
 :D:D | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: Come out, come out wherever you are..... said by moonpuppy :Where is the BPL troll with his stock tips and articles on how cheap and successful BPL is being deployed. :D:D Give him a little bit. He's an Ambient fan, and PPL's systems were Amperion and Main.net. The spin will be that they were using the wrong vendor. Never mind that Amperion uses the same DS2 chipset as Ambient. | |
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| KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| Clicking his heels three times while saying, "there's no place like BPL, there is no place like BPL, there is no place like BPL".
said by moonpuppy :Where is the BPL troll with his stock tips and articles on how cheap and successful BPL is being deployed. :D:D | |
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Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA | i told you so... do i even need to say it...? i think i will anyway...
BPL IS A LOSER!!! and will continue to be... I TOLD YOU SO!!! | |
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ebubman
join:2002-01-17
Enola, PA
 ·Vonage
·Comcast
| ppl has bpl?? we have comcast & honestly i'm pretty pleased with it. have written ppl in allentown several times & have failed to get a straight answer on anything related to bpl. i just figured they had the usual front level tech folks who merely cut & pasted for the first buzz word they seemed to understand. good thing we have electric choice here in pa. bub | |
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| itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| Re: ppl has bpl?? quote:
good thing we have electric choice here in pa. bub
Yeah, so we can switch from PP&L to... PP&L. Or pay 2-3x for "Renewable Energy". We were duped, plain and simple.
If you want reasonable power bills, there is no competition in PA.... | |
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| | thrakkerzog
join:2004-09-29
Allentown, PA
| Re: ppl has bpl?? said by itguy05 : quote:
good thing we have electric choice here in pa. bub
Yeah, so we can switch from PP&L to... PP&L. Or pay 2-3x for "Renewable Energy". We were duped, plain and simple. If you want reasonable power bills, there is no competition in PA.... Yeah, I looked into alternate energy suppliers, and it is a crock. No one wants to deal with non-business entities. I can get really expensive power from green mountain. I saw some windmills that offered a good rate, but then I saw that it was that rate + my current rate. Blah!
Energy deregulation has done nothing in this state! | |
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kv5e
Ride Free
Premium
join:2001-12-04
Mesquite, TX | VC to dry up SOON VC streams will dry up soon for the wannabes in the broadband game. I'm sure there will be a couple more "dead cat bounces" to milk the last investors, but soon BPL will be swirling in the bowl along with the self-absorbed trolls. | |
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kv5e
Ride Free
Premium
join:2001-12-04
Mesquite, TX
| Light This
V/m wins everytime! |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
edit:
October 3rd, @09:38PM
| Re: Light This
Alpha |
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fartness
Computersoc Dot Com
Premium
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside
clubs: | Demographics? It seems to me the demographics of the LV area could play a role in them not continuing this. | |
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sbhusted
join:2000-05-14
Bethlehem, PA
·PenTeleData
| Re: Demographics? I'm not sure what you mean by demographics in the LV... the LV is a pretty educated and increasingly high tech demography.
I think their release pretty much sums it up.. competition. In many parts of the valley, we are lucky enough to have competition and a few choices. Service Electric and ProLag cable, RCN cable, Verizon DSL, COVAD (Which I use), Enter.net, and a few others who resell DSL. I think BPL had an up hill battle whether or not the technology is/was sound .
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Scott B. Hustedhttp://www.Husted.cc | |
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fartness
Computersoc Dot Com
Premium
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside
clubs:
| Re: Demographics? I was talking about the poorer and non educated population (suburbs of Allentown and Bethlehem area, think former steel workers and their families)... in addition to the older people, and lower class (for the most part) Puerto Rican population (mainly found in Allentown).
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»www.computersOC.com - User reviews of computer hardware - Computer forums - Adelphia forum - P2P politics - more... | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| said by fartness :It seems to me the demographics of the LV area could play a role in them not continuing this. I'm familiar with all of the areas PPL covered with BPL. They were all essentially well populated suburban areas with middle to upper-middle class families, typical property sizes from a quarter to half acre. The Hanover Township and Macungie Township BPL test areas homes could easily go for $300K - $650K. They also covered the area in and around Lehigh University. (I would guess this is one of their contractual obligations they intended to fulfill before deactivating the system that they referred to in the article.) The downtown Bethlehem system was in a more urban environment, arguably more "blue collar", but quite ripe for broadband. This may not be the case today, but Hanover Township did not have DSL coverage and I think the cable system was a legacy one-way system. Emmaus lacked any broadband coverage at the beginning of the trial, but now has cable and Verizon fixed wireless. | |
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Ham band guy
join:2005-07-13
Minneapolis, MN
| Re:Yet more confirmation that BPL has failed. "Depends on what "exceeding" means? Installing repeaters along with their infrastructure is a lot cheaper than trying to build a fiber optic network over the same distances...."
I think if you compare price vs performance over the Long term, fiber would be a much better investment. Especially if one were to try and build out 200mbps BPL. 200mpbs BPL would require much line conditioning(very labor intensive to locate and remove noisy insulators,bad splices,etc), and to install numerous repeaters just to achieve 200mbps. For the same efforts fiber would realistically provide bandwidth well into the gbps region.
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Friends don't let friends use home edition anything! | |
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cmatties
Only the strong will survive. HAHA
join:2005-03-04
Westland, MI | Re:Yet more confirmation that BPL has failed. Actually That they are running 10Gbps over fiber now. Just thought you wanted to now. And you can run 10Gbps over CAT 6 but only for 50 ft. | |
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Mr Anon
@il.us
| Wow... this sounds nice too bad its gone. I dunno... 1.5/1.5 for 37 a month sounds darn good!
Its not the super duper blazing sppes that cable or omre expensive DSL services offer but if I were to be paid what I'm worth I'd totally consider paying 37 a month for 1.5/1.5 and share it or possibly dedicate it to my server and guy a DSL or cable connection for general use and gaming. | |
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| w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO | Re: Wow... this sounds nice too bad its gone. "general use and gaming."
You mean for P0RN and Gaming don't you. | |
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Lehigh Valley BPL Pilot Scrapped