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Jafo232
You Can't Spell Democrat Without Rat.
Premium
join:2002-10-17
Boonville, NY | Well.. I just wonder how many of those firefox 40 were fixed compared to how many of IE's 10 were fixed.
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Xbox 360 News! XboxCircle.com | |
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Xizer
join:2004-02-05
New York, NY
| Re: Well.. Security? Who gives a crap?
Anyone who gets their computer hacked is a moron. Anyone who is computer literate can use unsecure software without a care in the world.
I couldn't care less if Firefox was less secure than IE. Does IE offer built-in pop-up blocking? (And don't give me that SP2 crap, WinXP SP2 sucks gigantic amounts of ass) Does it offer tabbed browsing? Is it faster? Does it offer great extensions, which among things, can block absolutely all advertisements from pages (AdBlock), remove any content you want (R.I.P.), or have customizable themes? What about a built-in password manager so you don't have to type in your password every time when you visit sites? The answer to all of these questions: No. | |
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Topmounter
Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Evergreen, CO | Re: Well.. IE = feature-less
FireFox = feature-rich
nuff said (at least for me) | |
| | | | tdkyo
join:2002-12-07
Rochester, NY | Re: Well.. Although I am indifferent on either browser, I don't use the "special" features exclusively avilable on Firefox that are not avilable on IE. | |
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Joey1812
join:2002-05-21
Athens, GA
clubs:
| said by Xizer  :Anyone who gets their computer hacked is a moron. Not really. You may have loads of experience with your computer, but believe it or not some people may not have the time or desire to learn to be a quasi-expert with a PC. I know many extremely smart people who don't know didly about a computer. I also know many people who are pretty damn dumb that can do just about anything a typical computer enthusiast would want to do.
I wish people would come off this attitude that if you're not up on the latest computer thing you're an idiot. It gives computer geeks a bad name. | |
| | | | | | | | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
| Re: Well.. I disagree.
You are assuming the user has updated AV definitions and the exploit is used to install known malware. The hole could be used to install something not recognized by AV software. Now the AV companies are fighting a losing battle because the hole and be used again and again to install unrecognized malware until the hole is patched.
Unless AV software acts as a proxy for the browser, any browser hole that can be exploited by a user browsing to an unexpected site is very dangerous. | |
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PhoenixAZ
Joshua
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Phoenix, AZ
1 edit | said by Xizer :Security? Who gives a crap? Anyone who gets their computer hacked is a moron. Anyone who is computer literate can use unsecure software without a care in the world. I couldn't care less if Firefox was less secure than IE. Does IE offer built-in pop-up blocking? (And don't give me that SP2 crap, WinXP SP2 sucks gigantic amounts of ass) Does it offer tabbed browsing? Is it faster? Does it offer great extensions, which among things, can block absolutely all advertisements from pages (AdBlock), remove any content you want (R.I.P.), or have customizable themes? What about a built-in password manager so you don't have to type in your password every time when you visit sites? The answer to all of these questions: No. 1. Internet Explorer offers PopUp Blocking in Service Pack No way you can say it sucks without first trying it.
2. MSN Toolbar offers Tabbed Browsing for IE.
3. A third party add on can be used to block ads.
4. Customizable theme, you can theme Windows, and IE would match it.
5. Yes, IE has a password manager.
That being said, I use Firefox from time to time. Why bias yourself to one browser, when you can be open minded? | |
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pahuser
| The IE and Firefox comparisons, generally only exist for Windows users. Are these same "exploits" as dangerous when they exist, when running Firefox in Linux? | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
| Re: Well.. said by pahuser :
The IE and Firefox comparisons, generally only exist for Windows users. Are these same "exploits" as dangerous when they exist, when running Firefox in Linux?
The obvious answer you were fishing for is no.
The more obvious answer is just like Firefox, if Linux ever gains any sort of market share, the same issues will arise.
Now back in your hole anonymous fanboy. | |
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BuriedCaesar
It's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: Well.. Feeling a wee bit defensive, are we?
You might want to be careful with how you reference the "security through obscurity" myth... do you know for a fact that just because there are fewer machines running other browsers on other OSes out there that they're are automatically and inherently more secure just by that fact alone? I think you'll find that's not the case - I invite you to try to prove me wrong.
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That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
1 edit | Re: Well.. said by BuriedCaesar :Feeling a wee bit defensive, are we? You might want to be careful with how you reference the "security through obscurity" myth... do you know for a fact that just because there are fewer machines running other browsers on other OSes out there that they're are automatically and inherently more secure just by that fact alone? I think you'll find that's not the case - I invite you to try to prove me wrong. I also invite you to prove me wrong.
See, we can go round and round...
But I prefer to go to »ebgames.com and pick from the many, MANY, games I can play....
Or perhaps »newegg.com and choose from the many applications I can run Linux can't...
You may get "points" from your fake-geek friends for running Linux, but guess what? You aren't going to make money doing it, which means you are not going to get laid. | |
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BuriedCaesar
It's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: Well.. Yup - clearly on the defensive - and you still didn't answer my question.
And whether I'm going to get laid tonight was NOT the question and totally irrelevant to anything I said, so I can only assume your thought processes only go so far before they get reduced to childish, puberty-induced attacks ... and since you're the one who closed the circle, it's clearly pointless to try and go 'round the rosie again. Sorry, kiddo, that game's over.
So, maybe you can tell me (and this really isn't a hard question if you read carefully - you might want to read it again, just to make sure) - which company's operating system, in concert with its embedded internet browser, has been the verified cause of hundreds of thousands of lost hours of productivity, the complete shutdown of major Fortune 500 companies, with millions of dollars in measurable lost revenue due to the unfixed bugs and exploited vulnerabilities --- and which ones haven't?
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That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? | |
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Tsume
join:2004-02-23
Johnson City, TN
 ·ViaTalk
 ·Comcast
| Re: Well.. Which company's OS has ten times the market share of the other companies' combined?
That shouldn't be a hard question.
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"True warriors do not follow paths, they make them. It is not just their desire, it is their nature." (Battletech) | |
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GamerGeek
join:2003-07-26
Fortuna, CA
| said by BuriedCaesar :Yup - clearly on the defensive - and you still didn't answer my question. Meanwhile you are still fishing for an answer YOU ALREADY KNOW. You are goading people into a flamewar that has been perpetuated for a decade or more. It's uncalled for, so cease.
Like mevans said, "If Linux ever gains any sort of market share, the same issues will arise." Are you going to attempt to refute that comment, or are you going to continue to go on the "Linux is far more secure" crusade? | |
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BeesTea
Network Janitor
Premium,VIP
join:2003-03-08
00000
| Re: Well.. said by GamerGeek : Are you going to attempt to refute that comment, or are you going to continue to go on the "Linux is far more secure" crusade? What is there to refute ? It's a speculative comment based on no facts. Do you think that Operating Systems are vulnerable because they're popular ? Present some data that shows vulnerability discovery is related to popularity. If you cannot, your point is speculative.
Your argument that Windows is only being picked on because it's popular is ridiculous. Windows is exploited because it's vulnerable. Not because you like it. | |
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redxii
too big to fail
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
Texas
Host:
/dev/null
Broadband Tweaks
Suddenlink
ISDN
Fiber Optic
1 edit | Re: Well.. said by BeesTea :Your argument that Windows is only being picked on because it's popular is ridiculous. Windows is exploited because it's vulnerable. Not because you like it. I don't think popular was used to mean "most liked," more of most used.
If (and they do) people make money off of per install and/or per click of their software, which do you think would be more profitable? Now when someone targets FF and drops an exe, they're targeting Windows. Last I checked, "chmod +x" wasn't even needed to launch a *.bin file in Linux (actually tried it myself, it wasn't green indicating that command had been done).
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Microsoft Windows 2000/XP Security: Some Assembly Required. | |
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BuriedCaesar
It's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Yahoo
| My question was clearly a rhetorical one, as you so ably pointed out, and my original post didn't seek to refute anything, I simply sought to point out that mevans' statement about "gaining market share" was shortsighted and ill-advised, since it (to use your word) perpetuates a rather insidious myth in and of itself. Then he turned childish and is apparently off in a corner pouting.
And just what am I "perpetuating"? That implies I'm spreading information that's rather old and no longer relevant. Were my statements about Microsoft and IE incorrect? Wasn't it just a few months ago when an untold number of rather prominent websites and businesses were affected, and not cheaply, disrupting business and costing productivity? Why would I cease to be mindful of that which has caused such grief and frustration? You might say it's their fault for not keeping up their software patches, but then why, do you suppose, would they have needed to do that in the first place? I'd rather not be party to a repeat of history by forgetting it, nor should you, though you seem prepared to do just that.
And I never said anything about linux - everyone else seems to be making assumptions and inferences along those lines, and rather amusingly, too.
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That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? | |
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BeesTea
Network Janitor
Premium,VIP
join:2003-03-08
00000
| said by Matt :But I prefer to go to » ebgames.com and pick from the many, MANY, games I can play.... Or perhaps » newegg.com and choose from the many applications I can run Linux can't... Games.. OK, so I go to »ebgames.com and here's the PC Games listed on the front page, presumably because they're popular games for wintendo:
UO: The Eighth Age, Civilization IV, City of Villains, and Warhammer: Winter.
Let's see how playable they are on Linux.
UO: The Eighth Age, part of the Ultima Online series. Hmm, looks like the whole series is playable under Linux.
Civilization IV, the next installment of the Civ series. Looks like again this whole series has been possible to run on Linux. I'll wager this version will too.
City of Villains. An expansion to City of Heroes. Hmm, supported
Warhammer: Winter, an expansion to Warhammer: Dawn of War. You guessed it. playable.
Wow, good thing you know so much about Linux. I was almost gonna try it. Thanks for clueing me in.
For fun I was gonna go see all those apps Linux couldn't run you were talking about too, but I think your point with the games was clear enough. | |
| | | | | | | Goldengamego
Premium
join:2004-02-22
Okemos, MI
| Re: Well.. said by BeesTea :said by Matt :But I prefer to go to » ebgames.com and pick from the many, MANY, games I can play.... Or perhaps » newegg.com and choose from the many applications I can run Linux can't... Games.. OK, so I go to » ebgames.com and here's the PC Games listed on the front page, presumably because they're popular games for wintendo: UO: The Eighth Age, Civilization IV, City of Villains, and Warhammer: Winter. Let's see how playable they are on Linux. UO: The Eighth Age, part of the Ultima Online series. Hmm, looks like the whole series is playable under Linux. Civilization IV, the next installment of the Civ series. Looks like again this whole series has been possible to run on Linux. I'll wager this version will too. City of Villains. An expansion to City of Heroes. Hmm, supportedWarhammer: Winter, an expansion to Warhammer: Dawn of War. You guessed it. playable. Wow, good thing you know so much about Linux. I was almost gonna try it. Thanks for clueing me in. For fun I was gonna go see all those apps Linux couldn't run you were talking about too, but I think your point with the games was clear enough. That was pretty good, knowing most people on this site don't check their facts you posted links you knew they wouldn't bother following. Unfortunately for you, I am NOT "most people on this site".
First and foremost, that is not a list of working games; it is a list of games and their current status with respect to playability. Many of the games listed there don't run at all, others run very poorly, with many graphical and other functional glitches.
The second biggest problem is that due to the conversion taking place between DirectX and OpenGL, the games tend to run quite a bit slower. I did NOT spend 2k for a machine just do I could run my games in an emulator.
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Because Goldengamegod won't fit:p | |
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BeesTea
Network Janitor
Premium,VIP
join:2003-03-08
00000
1 edit | Re: Well.. said by Goldengamego :Unfortunately for you, I am NOT "most people on this site". LOL. Unfortunately for me.. that's funny.
For starters.. Every one of the games I linked runs under transgaming wine. Of them, one game, Warhammer, has less than perfect playability. The expansions all run on the parent engine and of those, 2 are officially supported games, and one has a playability of 4 of 4 stars.
Secondly, WINE stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator. There is no emulation happening. Clearly you're not familiar with what you're talking about.
The moral of the story is this, use whatever OS you want, don't try to use make believe to argue your point though. Plenty of win32 software runs perfectly well on other platforms and operating systems. Just because people recommend the OS you don't use, doesn't mean you need to get yourself all worked up. If you decide to get worked up though, know what you're talking about. It makes your argument considerably more effective.
Personally, I'll never in my life understand peoples need to champion a software power house like Microsoft. You people are their customers. The cows to be milked for upgrades and whatnot. I can only assume you're all stockholders. | |
| | | IHateFirefox
join:2005-05-23
35604 | said by pahuser :
The IE and Firefox comparisons, generally only exist for Windows users. Maybe because your only choice for running IE in Linux is WINE? | |
| | | DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA
·Optimum Online
| said by pahuser :
The IE and Firefox comparisons, generally only exist for Windows users. Are these same "exploits" as dangerous when they exist, when running Firefox in Linux?
Running UNIX at home is pointless. As an AIX admin (with some 200 fixes a month from IBM) I can say that this is an azzhat comment. | |
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Smitedogg
Uzbekikitty
Premium
join:2000-11-11
Pueblo, CO
| Re: Well.. said by DVOOR8 :said by pahuser :
The IE and Firefox comparisons, generally only exist for Windows users. Are these same "exploits" as dangerous when they exist, when running Firefox in Linux?
Running UNIX at home is pointless. As an AIX admin (with some 200 fixes a month from IBM) I can say that this is an azzhat comment. As someone who uses only *nix at home, and has for the last 5 years been without windows, I can fairly state that you're a piss poor troll.
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The wise man can pick up a grain of sand and envision a whole universe. But the stupid man will just lay down on some seaweed and roll around until he's completely draped in it. Then he'll stand up and go: Hey, I'm Vine Man. | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
1 edit | Re: Well.. said by Smitedogg :said by DVOOR8 :said by pahuser :
The IE and Firefox comparisons, generally only exist for Windows users. Are these same "exploits" as dangerous when they exist, when running Firefox in Linux?
Running UNIX at home is pointless. As an AIX admin (with some 200 fixes a month from IBM) I can say that this is an azzhat comment. As someone who uses only *nix at home, and has for the last 5 years been without windows, I can fairly state that you're a piss poor troll. Ohhh, ::shudder::, you're without Windows.
I'm in awe.
I bet you have your email checking down to a science... | |
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Smitedogg
Uzbekikitty
Premium
join:2000-11-11
Pueblo, CO
| Re: Well.. said by Matt :Ohhh, ::shudder::, you're without Windows. I'm in awe. I bet you have your email checking down to a science... Yeah, it's a fine art. Every 5 minutes Evolution checks all my mail accounts, downloads the email, filters out the spam, puts the right mail in the right box, all that crazy stuff. Once a day it even goes crazy and syncs the cals and vcards between it, work, and my pocket pc. Sometimes I even read it. Wild stuff, that email 
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The wise man can pick up a grain of sand and envision a whole universe. But the stupid man will just lay down on some seaweed and roll around until he's completely draped in it. Then he'll stand up and go: Hey, I'm Vine Man. | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
1 edit | Re: Well.. said by Smitedogg :said by Matt :Ohhh, ::shudder::, you're without Windows. I'm in awe. I bet you have your email checking down to a science... Yeah, it's a fine art. Every 5 minutes Evolution checks all my mail accounts, downloads the email, filters out the spam, puts the right mail in the right box, all that crazy stuff. Once a day it even goes crazy and syncs the cals and vcards between it, work, and my pocket pc. Sometimes I even read it. Wild stuff, that email Wow! It does all that while talking to an Exchange server? | |
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BeesTea
Network Janitor
Premium,VIP
join:2003-03-08
00000
| Re: Well.. said by Matt :Wow! It does all that while talking to an Exchange server? Yes. | |
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ximians
@qwest.net | Re: Well.. mevans=powned!!! | |
| | | | | DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA
·Optimum Online
| said by Smitedogg :said by DVOOR8 :said by pahuser :
The IE and Firefox comparisons, generally only exist for Windows users. Are these same "exploits" as dangerous when they exist, when running Firefox in Linux?
Running UNIX at home is pointless. As an AIX admin (with some 200 fixes a month from IBM) I can say that this is an azzhat comment. As someone who uses only *nix at home, and has for the last 5 years been without windows, I can fairly state that you're a piss poor troll. Yeah, LOL!! That must be it. | |
| | | | itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| quote:
Running UNIX at home is pointless. As an AIX admin (with some 200 fixes a month from IBM) I can say that this is an azzhat comment.
Why? I've been running UNIX at home for 3.5 years now. It's called OSX. More secure than Windows, can run more apps (Mac + Windows + Linux apps) and has a much better user experience. | |
| | | | | DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA
·Optimum Online
| Re: Well.. said by itguy05 : quote:
Running UNIX at home is pointless. As an AIX admin (with some 200 fixes a month from IBM) I can say that this is an azzhat comment.
Why? I've been running UNIX at home for 3.5 years now. It's called OSX. More secure than Windows, can run more apps (Mac + Windows + Linux apps) and has a much better user experience. Mac + Windows + Linux apps? What that about 20? LOL! | |
| IHateFirefox
join:2005-05-23
35604
1 edit | Dying... Dying... Dead. Let the fallout begin! This rotting fox is going out with a thud as the exploits keep rolling in.
There is a critical mass of ignorant and/or stupid people for every product. Firefox has reached it. | |
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ifarrell
join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC
·Vonage
| Re: Dying... Dying... Dead. said by IHateFirefox :Let the fallout begin! This rotting fox is going out with a thud as the exploits keep rolling in. There is a critical mass of ignorant and/or stupid people for every product. Firefox has reached it. Well we all know the biased troll is still around.
The reporter is obviously misinformed.
Take some true statistics from Secunia's Web Site -
Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.x with all vendor patches installed and all vendor workarounds applied, is currently affected by one or more Secunia advisories rated Highly critical
This is based on the most severe Secunia advisory, which is marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database. Go to Unpatched/Patched list below for details.
Currently, 19 out of 85 Secunia advisories, is marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.
Mozilla Firefox 1.x with all vendor patches installed and all vendor workarounds applied, is currently affected by one or more Secunia advisories rated Less critical
This is based on the most severe Secunia advisory, which is marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database. Go to Unpatched/Patched list below for details.
Currently, 3 out of 22 Secunia advisories, is marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.
So, as you see moron, IE still has more unpatched "Highly Critical" vulnerabilities than Firefox which has only 3 "Less Critical". Now you can crawl back into your cave. | |
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trparky
Bite My Shiny Metal Ass
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
clubs: | Re: Dying... Dying... Dead. Amen. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| said by ifarrell :said by IHateFirefox :IE still has more unpatched "Highly Critical" vulnerabilities than Firefox which has only 3 "Less Critical". Are you saying your trust secunia's opinion of security? Because in the end, a two bit company can't compete with a huge company. No matter what you say, the underfunded can't last forever. | |
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ifarrell
join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC
·Vonage
1 edit | Re: Dying... Dying... Dead. Actually the report BBR is quoting is over a very narrow period of time to bias the report rather than over a period of years. And yes, since Microsoft and others in the industry choose to take Secunia's findings seriously then so do I sir.
I prefer to look at the bigger picture and currently trust the "two bit company" over the "huge company".
And besides, Mozilla has been around for a long time and I'd be real careful about calling them a "two bit company".
Finally, large corporations may eventually have their day also. Microsoft isn't the be all and end all of the Software Industry. | |
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Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR | What did you expect? When it gets popular, the hackers go after it. We all knew this was coming. | |
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See 9 replies to this post | |
WTF 1
@adelphia.net | AT lest i Will NOT f'en get spyware what i sad up the the Subject | |
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Dagda1175
join:2001-06-17
Goleta, CA | waits......waits some more How many months pass between a vulnerability found and a patch issued? This was the biggest problem plaguing IE i believe. didnt they take like 9 months for a patch several times in a row? | |
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inciter
Noobie
Premium
join:2000-08-30
Rohnert Park, CA
| .Yes he is right Yes he is right all browsers have problems. You cannot recommend one over the other as DSLR does. It's false and that's about it.
DSLR reports the safe browser? False report! shame on you DSLR reports! this is a tech browser and if a layman uses it he is more open to problems security wise than IE.
Sorry but it is true.
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Playing Table Tennisis not a matter of life or Death, It's much more important than that. | |
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Orange3
Premium
join:2005-02-26
Longmont, CO | Re: .Yes he is right Your browser is only unsecure unless you run without a Firewall and AV Software. | |
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Smitedogg
Uzbekikitty
Premium
join:2000-11-11
Pueblo, CO
| Re: .Yes he is right said by Orange3 :Your browser is only unsecure unless you run without a Firewall and AV Software. Odd, I run neither and haven't had a problem. Perhaps that has a lot more to do with the operating system the browser is running on.
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The wise man can pick up a grain of sand and envision a whole universe. But the stupid man will just lay down on some seaweed and roll around until he's completely draped in it. Then he'll stand up and go: Hey, I'm Vine Man. | |
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Fershlugg
join:2000-10-11
Torrington, CT
·Cablevision
| Why all the antagonism? I'm just very surprised that there are BROWSER fanboys fer chrissakes...
I use firefox now because I like the functionality, if MS builds a better browser I'll switch back.
case closed...
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A7N8X rev.2, 2500+ Barton, 2x512 Corsair XMS PC3200, Albatron GFFX5900EPV, WinXP Pro SP1...etc... | |
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CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Fontana, CA
| Re: Why all the antagonism? And I'm using Opera because I got sick and tired of FF crashing and locking me out of my profile. Maybe I'll be using IE in a week. Who knows? Who cares? I'm a filthy whore when it comes to using browsers.
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Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps. -- Emo Phillips | |
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Feets
Premium
join:2002-12-11
Hamilton, ON
·Cogeco Cable
| Re: Why all the antagonism? said by CurtesyFlush :I'm a filthy whore when it comes to using browsers. Exactly. The software I use exists to serve me, not the other way around. I don't preach about what I use, and I certainly don't care what other people use. If something comes along that serves me better on the whole, I'll switch and use that until something something tops it.
My browser and my operating system are in no way tied to my self worth. Nor is my choice of CPU, video card, car, MP3 player, game console, etc...etc...etc. | |
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AtomicZero
join:2004-11-24
West Palm Beach, FL
| said by Fershlugg :I'm just very surprised that there are BROWSER fanboys fer chrissakes... I use firefox now because I like the functionality, if MS builds a better browser I'll switch back. case closed... There's something for everyone and a designated battle to be fought by someone[s]...regardless of how infinitely childish it may appear. | |
| IOddity
join:2005-06-06
Rio Dell, CA
|  Why should we care?
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AtomicZero
join:2004-11-24
West Palm Beach, FL
1 edit | Re: Why should we care? correct why should we care. I don't give a crap what browser you use / and you really shouldn't give a crap about which one I use.
That's like me going on a tirade over you not wearing black socks like me. "Oh for shame, white socks just get waaayy too dirty, you should wear black socks like me...cuz it's kewl" | |
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brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Why should we care? U going to give a crap when the hackers are knocking on that firewall or breaking it through wit ha jack hammer lol | |
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AtomicZero
join:2004-11-24
West Palm Beach, FL | Re: Why should we care? strange how it hasn't happened yet...hhhmmmm  | |
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CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Fontana, CA
| said by brooklynman4 :U going to give a crap when the hackers are knocking on that firewall or breaking it through wit ha jack hammer lol And prophylaxis for those problems are browser dependent?
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Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps. -- Emo Phillips | |
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MagMan
Life is simpler when you tell the truth.
Premium
join:2003-10-01
Westlake, OH
·AT&T Midwest
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: I like said by Rickez :I like firefox for it's features, when it comes to security I never rely on my browser. Safe surfing habits have got to be best practice along with knowing and understanding you computer. When I first tried Firefox about a year ago I was not sure if I liked it, but over time I prefer it to MSIE. I am by no means a MS hater, just found the browser to be pretty kool. I love being able to ad block with a right click, have gotten very use to tabs and love the script block extension. Also the right click, open with IE feature is kool for the sites that do not work in FF. I don't understand why they are always trying to bring this browser down I like leave it alone. It is cool so let it be;)
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"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is." | |
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pahuser
| Unsure The IE and Firefox debate generally exists only for Windows users. Are these "exploits" equally as dangerous for Firefox users running the browser on Linux? Just curious. | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
1 edit | Re: Unsure said by pahuser :
The IE and Firefox debate generally exists only for Windows users. Are these "exploits" equally as dangerous for Firefox users running the browser on Linux? Just curious.
Didn't you say the same thing here? | |
| BudBob
Premium
join:2003-01-01
Mckinney, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| Firefox That is like comparing apples to oranges.
1. Firefox is a stand-alone application (ie. not embedded in the OS)
2. critical patches are released before the crackers can hack it.
3. They don't lie, fix it and carry on, no BS.
4. If you run it on a linux box, who cares, unless you are running a server. It's real hard to get root on a linux box unless you run a root account to surf the web.
5. I have yet to see a proof of concept before the patch was released.
What has MS done?
They swept all of there problems under the rug hoping nobody would notice, and clouded the issue with a bug fix for win 2k to fix the last roll-up release, while there are proof of concept critical bugs out in the wild.
Numbers can say anything you want them to say, but how many people in this forum complain about there Firefox home page being hijacked or new tool bars being added, or pop ups popping faster than you can delete them.
Any thing else is a function of the OS and its' data protection scheme. | |
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Smitedogg
Uzbekikitty
Premium
join:2000-11-11
Pueblo, CO
| Re: Firefox said by BudBob :2. critical patches are released before the crackers can hack it. 3. They don't lie, fix it and carry on, no BS. 5. I have yet to see a proof of concept before the patch was released. #2 isn't really true, there have been a few times they suggested work-arounds until they released a patch. I also seem to recall a couple of POCs at Secunia before the patch was released, though I might just be confused. #3 is a great reason for me (other than I only use Linux anyways), if there's an exploit out there I can fix it myself if I can't wait for them, or I can audit the code myself. Liberation 
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The wise man can pick up a grain of sand and envision a whole universe. But the stupid man will just lay down on some seaweed and roll around until he's completely draped in it. Then he'll stand up and go: Hey, I'm Vine Man. | |
| jpark
join:2005-02-05
Jackson, TN
| Not really comparable. Firefox is a browser. Plain and simple. You may like it, you may not (I do), but the difference in security is that firefox is just an application.
IE, on the other hand, is tied into the Windows OS. Its Active X controls extend into the OS, making vulnerabilities much more serious.
You can't really compare an application to an OS and expect to discover anything of importance. | |
| compton
join:2002-02-08
Brooklyn, NY
| Firefox lover I am still going to use Firefox. I have surfed through the bowels of internet hell with Firefox and never picked up spyware, malware and junk. As far as I know no Firefox machine has never compromised. As of right now Firefox has no known vulnerabilities or exploits because they were all fixed. | |
| 
aelfwyne
join:2004-01-28
Beaumont, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| vulnerabilities != exploits What that article IGNORES is that when a vulnerability is discovered in FireFox, it is patched QUICKLY.
When a vulnerability is discovered in IE, MS tries to nonchalantly shove it under the nearest rug. It either has to be publicized, or an exploit actually make it into the wild, before MS takes the time to patch it. Often, exploits run rampant for months or years before they are patched, if they require some sort of user intervention (such as clicking 'yes' on a box).
Part of the problem is the power that ActiveX gives websites when a clueless user has configured his browser to trust that website. Installation of desktop components, messing with the registry, etc. It is much more difficult to slip this stuff by in FireFox.
So, there may be flaws - but the fact remains that in FireFox, these still rarely become widespread exploits.
Fact is - when I used to use IE, I had to deal with crap like autodialers, web search agents, etc, that would actually appear *without* my intervention, just by visiting the wrong site. Now that I use FireFox, this has NEVER HAPPENED. That's why I trust FireFox. Past Performance = Future Expectations. | |
| |
unfoxy
@comcast.net | Re: vulnerabilities != exploits Firefox performance has been steadily going downhill for me. And if it wasn't for all the passwords stored I'd be on IE7 beta. The fox is becoming a memory hog, not to mention the extensions that slow everything down | |
| raye
Premium
join:2000-08-14
Orange, CA
| But just how critical were those 40 FF vulns? In most if not all of the Firefox vulnerabilities, the criticallness was pretty minimal (source »www.secunia.com).
None of the 40 FF vulnerabilities were exploitable by just opening up your browser and surfing to the 0wned website. IE's vulnerabilities almost always do not require the user to do something extra to be exploited, and the exploit is always fatal.
I have a friend who I set up with Firefox last year. Before that, she was using IE with Anti-Virus and firewall software, and I was always having to rebuild her machine because she was not careful to patch her computer regularly. Since I switched her over to FF, she has had no breakins or spyware problems. Now I also installed CounterSpy (anti-spyware) which also probably helped as well. But there were large spaces of time where I was unable to update her FF and she has no issues. Rewind to IE; if I did not get to computer within a few days of exploit release, the machine was usually hosed.
No browser is perfect, but because IE is so tightly integrated into the Windows kernel, its exploits are almost always r00t exploits. With Firefox the exploits are usually much more benign in nature... | |
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winterforge
Premium
join:2000-07-23
Seattle, WA
clubs:  | Re: But just how critical were those 40 FF vulns? One word:
Opera | |
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Rob A
Same Old Jets
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | Re: But just how critical were those 40 FF vulns? said by winterforge :One word: Opera What he said! | |
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SatelliteMan
This Aint No Rag... It's A Flag.
join:2002-05-09
Franklin, NC | I choose neither... Firefox is a piece of shit, IE is just a larger piece of shit. Opera, however, is one hell of a browser, I love it.
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Walmart.com - Always Low Prices! | |
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Rob A
Same Old Jets
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ
1 edit | Re: I choose neither... said by SatelliteMan :Firefox is a piece of shit, IE is just a larger piece of shit. Opera, however, is one hell of a browser, I love it. Yup! Speed, security, and features, features, and more features! Gotta love it!:D | |
| | | | | | | WiZZLa
Insert Meaningless Text Here -Run 4a Mod
join:2003-11-09
Canada
| Re: I choose neither... said by Grail Knight :I am interested in knowing how many users that installed the Ad free Opera a couple weeks ago are still using it or ditched it because of the sloppy handling of toolbars, tabs, and instructions. I don't want to nitpick, but I wanted to mention that Opera doesn't use tabs, it actually uses MDI, which is much more advanced than tabs.
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NOTE: The quicker a thread is closed, the smaller the chance you'll get embarrassed. END NOTE../quote drunkgoatIM #1: I'm not immature!IM #2: I will kick your f*cking ass...when i show up at your door and put a gun to your face.../end.quote | |
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Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I choose neither... Not nitpicking at all and I thank you for the correction. I was only going by the Opera Home Page that calls it tabbed browsing so I called them tabs.
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Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050916 Firefox/1.0.7__Thunderbird version 1.0.6 (20050916) | |
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GadgetsRme
R.I.P. dadkins
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Canon City, CO
|  Penalty for Obnoxious Fanboys
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Gadgets | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
1 edit | Re: Penalty for Obnoxious Fanboys said by GadgetsRme :I think that anyone who feels like they have to get overly exuberant and obnoxious about their choice of browser or email should be declared guilty of contempt of fellow users and sentenced to 12 months of mandatory use of Lynx and Pine for being such pains. Naaa man, let them use Elm, not Pine.
I bet they'd freak the "F" out if they had to use Slipknot...(The browser, not the band) | |
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GadgetsRme
R.I.P. dadkins
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Canon City, CO
| Re: Penalty for Obnoxious Fanboys said by Matt :said by GadgetsRme :I think that anyone who feels like they have to get overly exuberant and obnoxious about their choice of browser or email should be declared guilty of contempt of fellow users and sentenced to 12 months of mandatory use of Lynx and Pine for being such pains. Naaa man, let them use Elm, not Pine. I bet they'd freak the "F" out if they had to use Slipknot...(The browser, not the band) Man, now that's harsh, I like it.
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Gadgets | |
| | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by GadgetsRme :I think that anyone who feels like they have to get overly exuberant and obnoxious about their choice of browser or email should be declared guilty of contempt of fellow users and sentenced to 12 months of mandatory use of Lynx and Pine for being such pains. Lynx ? Naah, that's too nice. Make them use:
telnet www.some_site.com 80
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Hide and Seek for adults...
My apolitical blog... | |
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GadgetsRme
R.I.P. dadkins
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Canon City, CO
| Re: Penalty for Obnoxious Fanboys said by bmn :said by GadgetsRme :I think that anyone who feels like they have to get overly exuberant and obnoxious about their choice of browser or email should be declared guilty of contempt of fellow users and sentenced to 12 months of mandatory use of Lynx and Pine for being such pains. Lynx ? Naah, that's too nice. Make them use: telnet www.some_site.com 80 It is nice to know I have good company around.
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Gadgets | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by bmn :said by GadgetsRme :I think that anyone who feels like they have to get overly exuberant and obnoxious about their choice of browser or email should be declared guilty of contempt of fellow users and sentenced to 12 months of mandatory use of Lynx and Pine for being such pains. Lynx ? Naah, that's too nice. Make them use: telnet www.some_site.com 80 LOL!
Good luck... | |
| Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
·Comcast
·Aristotle Internet
| How exciting! Not! It pretty much started with AMD vs Intel hardware, the concept of 'Fanboyism' and then it spread into software. Now, it seems not even a browser is safe..Lol.
What's really amusing about the browser "Wars", more so than software applications [Which can be tweaked], is that almost all those doing the "This browser is better than that browser..." Have not a single isolated clue of code and have never invested time in trouble shooting any of them. There are bound to be a handful around that have.
It's kind of like saying X is better than Y, because that's what I use..Lol. Got a kick out of this thread, too funny.
Those that don't have issues are the people who know how to setup a hardware firewall and know what to enable/disable in a given browser....More importantly, know how to surf and understand that Critical Updates are an option  Then, the use of their own or third party software, to close the gate on everything, not invited
Which begs why Security is important, ID theft et al. Look past the browser, 'Fanboys'. For the most part there is nothing most would know or could fix in a browser issue, no matter what is used. It's more an issue of understanding the whole picture! Crackers will continue, to be smarter than the average 'Joe User'.
Dang there must be some bored people out there. Which brings to mind what somebody might use a computer for, it seems overkill for a lot of people, who could probably benefit from a TV based web solution......LOL
Cheers
LMAO ~Outa here!
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2.66g/533fsb Intel CPU @ 3.48g512meg Twinmos PC3700~466 DDR @ 2.8v -PCpower&Cooling 512. May, 2003*ATI 9500 Pro @ 9700 Pro @1.6v
AMD ASUS A7N8X-E ~2500+ @3200 ATI 9500 Pro, Corsair 512LL. | |
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See 7 replies to this post | |
bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Okay then... Someone find me a browser product that DOESN'T have problems or never did ?
Until such a super-browser exists, use what you like and quit trolling on behalf of IE, Firefox, Opera or whatever other browser you like.
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Hide and Seek for adults...
My apolitical blog... | |
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Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31 | Re: Okay then... A browser Utopia.
Now that I would like to see... | |
| 
Deft
Stros in '08
Premium
join:2003-09-06
Grand Forks, ND
clubs: | get over it? How about everyone just voices there opinions.. get over it.. USE WHAT YOU WANT TO USE WHO CARES
every freaking time something comes up about FF, IE, Opera.. and whatever else it turns into a big soap opera.. god damn.. | |
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GadgetsRme
R.I.P. dadkins
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Canon City, CO
| Re: get over it? said by Deft :How about everyone just voices there opinions.. get over it.. USE WHAT YOU WANT TO USE WHO CARES every freaking time something comes up about FF, IE, Opera.. and whatever else it turns into a big soap opera.. god damn.. BUT then they'd have no purpose in life,dont'cha know. Gotta be right, in the know, have the best of the best and let everyone know it so they can puff their chests. Man, my chest would hurt from all that heavy lifting.
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Gadgets | |
| | BudBob
Premium
join:2003-01-01
Mckinney, TX | It's the frackin principal. M$ pays some reporter to write a skewed report on what should be an unbiased opinion, and I say opinion because there was not any empirical data presented to prove his point either way. -1 + 1 = 0. | |
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GadgetsRme
R.I.P. dadkins
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Canon City, CO
2 edits | Re: get over it? said by BudBob :It's the (deleted) principal. You are right it is the principal. The principals missing are courtesy, communication without crudity or name calling and good old common sense. It seems lately that no one cans say this or that works better for me so I use it. That can be done without calling a product "shit" or someone an "aazzhat". It would be nice if the younger set had a good example to follow,and do that, and those of us who are old enough act more like adults should. That is what's missing from today's forums and internet.
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Gadgets | |
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kangabil
Do It Now, Do It Right
Premium
join:2005-05-15
Australia
| Re: get over it? Well said Gadgets. I see my screen using "A", you see yours with "B" and Pfred sees his with "X", so who cares so long as it works for the user.
Frankly I'll follow your comment that extra step; if the subscribers to threads with topics like this go off their heads and slag each other off over a piece of software then we're all going to hell in a hand cart.
Or there's some seriously unhappy puppies out there who need psychiatric assistance to get over their attack of the abbdabs.
Wasn't there a Greek philosopher who said some 2000 years ago that the young were rude and unruly??? Sigh,
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Who was that masked man? | |
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Firefox Honeymoon Over?
JK