 |  | | | 
Rob
In Deo speramus
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
 ·Comcast
| said by TK Junk Mail  :I don't mind seeing BPL get its shot, but it will never provide much competition to DSL or Cable or FTTH. It may someday provide some competition to satellite technology because of satellites round trip delay times. The people hyping BPL as some great advance are greatly overselling it. My Web PageJoin Red Room Forum I don't think it's intended to replace or even compete with DSL or Cable or even FTTH. But it may be force DSL and cable companies to actually attempt to expand their coverage area.
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| | | 
4dtruth
| Re: BPL will never overtake Cable/DSL Ambient Enters California Market
Thursday July 21, 4:30 pm ET
SDG&E Selects Ambient to Assess BPL Technology
BOSTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--July 21, 2005--Ambient Corporation (OTCBB: ABTG - News), a leader in Broadband over Power Lines (BPL) solutions, today announced the BPL Trial Agreement it has entered into with San Diego Gas & Electric Company (SDG&E), a unit of Sempra Energy (NYSE: SRE - News), that will evaluate BPL-enabled consumer and utility based applications.
Ambient will work with SDG&E staff to develop an understanding of the required knowledge and skills to implement, design and install a fully operational BPL-enabled Ambient network on the SDG&E grid. Ambient's Network Management System (NMS) will be licensed by SDG&E to monitor the BPL network. Ambient technology will be purchased and installed by SDG&E to provide high-speed data services so that SDG&E may evaluate several applications including BPL-enabled meter reading.
John J. Joyce, President and CEO of Ambient, stated, "We believe this is a significant opportunity for Ambient to demonstrate how our solution may play a role in helping to fulfill the Advanced Metering Initiative (AMI) set forth by California's Energy Commission (CEC) and Public Utility Commission (CPUC). California's energy vision set forth by these two commissions is unique as it focuses on customer-oriented or demand-side solutions, seeking to establish a technology and pricing policy foundation that links customer rates with the market price for energy. Our goal is to establish a BPL network in the state where the Public Utility Commission has clearly expressed an interest in evaluating BPL technologies for better serving the utility's customers."
About Ambient Corporation
Ambient Corporation (OTC BB: ABTG - News) is a development stage company engaged in the design, development and marketing of equipment and technologies that utilize existing electrical power medium voltage and low voltage distribution lines as a medium for the delivery of broadband and other communication services. The use of an electric power distribution system as a high-speed communication medium is commonly referred to as "power line communications" or "broadband over power lines." Visit Ambient at www.ambientcorp.com. | |
| | | |
4dtruth
| Re: BPL will never overtake Cable/DSL ...
Ham radio interference?
One obstacle is that sending Internet signals through power lines can interfere with low-power radio transmissions, including those of amateur radio operators.
"Ham radio operators are not against BPL," said Alan Pitts, a spokesman for ARRL, the national association for Amateur Radio.
"We are against the interference. When you go putting energy in those frequencies on unshielded electric lines, it will turn those lines into an antenna."
This is a public safety issue, Pitts said, because the hams - who number nearly 670,000 in the United States - "come through regularly when nothing else works" to coordinate emergency responders and relief efforts.
PPL said that while it had experienced a few incidents with ham radio operators, the problems were solved by "notching," or reserving chunks of the radio spectrum for the hobbyists. The utility said it had no reported problems with fire, police or rescue radio systems.
In some cases, PPL says it has traced reported interference to sources other than power-line broadband. When one man complained of interference, "we found out it was his Ionic Breeze air cleaner in his house," said Alan Richenbacher, chief network architect for PPL Broadband.
Still, amateur radio operators say there is evidence that Internet signals, when carried as radio frequencies over medium-voltage power lines, can disrupt other radio signals a half mile or more away. They complain that the Federal Communications Commission, by failing to take stronger action regarding BPL, "broke its own prime directive... to protect the licensed services from interference," Pitts said.
Not so, countered Bruce Franca, acting chief for the FCC's office of engineering and technology.
"We amended our rules to put many more requirements on broadband over power lines," he said.
"The President has made the provision of broadband services to the American public a national priority," Franca said. "So we're looking for ways to provide broadband to the American people, and the more ways you can do it, the more beneficial. We weigh that against the impact on licensed radio services."
One encouraging sign for ham operators, Pitts said, was Motorola Inc.'s rollout this year of a BPL method that avoids interference by combining low-voltage lines with frequency notching.
Investors see opportunity
Some quarters of the investing community think broadband over power lines is a potentially profitable gamble.
Google Inc., which operates the Internet's most-used search engine, in July invested $100 million in BPL operator Current Communications Group L.L.C., of Germantown, Md. Also, PA Early Stage Partners and other investors recently invested $1 million in Duquesne Broadband's co-owner, Pittsburgh-based BPL Global Ltd.
Michael Bolton, PA Early Stage managing director, said the technology's potential went far beyond Internet access. Other potential applications include remote building management, which could give companies huge energy savings; "smart grid" capabilities that save time and money on diagnosing needed power line repairs; and security solutions using broadband.
"This is a $300 billion market opportunity over the next 10 years," Bolton said.
Michael Cai, a senior analyst with Dallas research firm Parks Associates, does not expect broadband over power lines to take much business away from DSL and cable modems, which have become well-entrenched in many high-population areas. "It's best positioned in the underserved markets," Cai said of BPL.
Plus, with prices for lower-speed DSL access beginning to drop below $15 a month in many areas, BPL operators may have a harder time carving a niche in those places. Price, after all, was what drew Duquesne customer Reese to the power-line technology.
"Forty dollars a month is really a lot of money," Reese said. "At $19.99 - that's a lot more doable."
»www.philly.com/mld/philly/12611837.htm | |
| | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: BPL will never overtake Cable/DSL said by 4dtruth :
...
Michael Cai, a senior analyst with Dallas research firm Parks Associates, does not expect broadband over power lines to take much business away from DSL and cable modems, which have become well-entrenched in many high-population areas. "It's best positioned in the underserved markets," Cai said of BPL.
Plus, with prices for lower-speed DSL access beginning to drop below $15 a month in many areas, BPL operators may have a harder time carving a niche in those places. Price, after all, was what drew Duquesne customer Reese to the power-line technology.
"Forty dollars a month is really a lot of money," Reese said. "At $19.99 - that's a lot more doable."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....back again? Guess you aren't using the callsign of a HAM anymore cause you got caught. 
If you think BPL is cheap, here is what an ISP in Australia is doing:
»whirlpool.net.au/article.cfm/1541
Only 2GB of data (including upload) for $80/month? :D:D
And people thought Comcast with their 2GB limit on newsgroups was bad.
»www.tastel.com.au/bpl/prod_benefits.html
These are the supposed benefits of it. Free VOIP? I wonder how long a call would it take to hit that 2GB limit? :D:D
Give it up troll boy, cut and paste doesn't cut it from this crowd and it is even further disregarded with your anonymous standing. | |
| | | | | |
Dialup Sucks
@63.240.x.x
| Re: BPL will never overtake Cable/DSL I had their Direcway for internet for a couple of years the second time around. For the price it sucks big time and I can't wait til someone puts them out of business. I was buying the 89 dollar a month service and all it gives you is a static IP.
I have been waiting on BPL ever since the first news article came out.
Anyone that has broadband be it DSL or Cable does not need to be dissing the BPL. There are millions of people stuck with dialup over antiquated phone lines.
I would be willing to pay at least 60 bucks a month for DSL or Cable if I could get it.
Come on BPL. The Rural communities of America are waiting. | |
| | | | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: BPL will never overtake Cable/DSL said by Dialup Sucks :
I had their Direcway for internet for a couple of years the second time around. For the price it sucks big time and I can't wait til someone puts them out of business. I was buying the 89 dollar a month service and all it gives you is a static IP.
I have been waiting on BPL ever since the first news article came out. Sorry, but if that is all that's available in your area, then you are stuck with it. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Simple.
said by Dialup Sucks :
Anyone that has broadband be it DSL or Cable does not need to be dissing the BPL. There are millions of people stuck with dialup over antiquated phone lines.
I would be willing to pay at least 60 bucks a month for DSL or Cable if I could get it. What you are willing to pay and what the broadband companies are willing to put out are 2 different things. Less people in an area = less return on investment. Areas with more of a population density (that have money to subscribe to high speed service) are more likely to be serviced.
said by Dialup Sucks :
Come on BPL. The Rural communities of America are waiting.
And the rural communities will keep waiting. Do a bit of reading into how this technology works and see how many repeaters would be needed to get the service down the wire. It is not cheap when it might take 4 or 5 repeaters to service one or 2 houses. If there was money to be made in rural deployment, others would already be there.
And before anymore of the perennial idiots come out of the woodwork, I DO NOT WANT TO LIMIT CHOICES!!!! I believe this country should make a concerted effort to get high speed service out to everyone at an affordable price. HOWEVER, BPL (in its Ambient format) is a detriment to the licensed radio services (not just the HAMS.) Most people are so blinded to the fact that they want high speed no matter who they have to kick out of the way to get it. Yet, these same people would be the first to complain if deployment of high speed internet interfered or took away something they wanted.
I lived in downtown Baltimore City where I did not have cable broadband and DSL did not work for me. I still would have never even considered BPL as an alternative. | |
| | | | 
rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| said by 4dtruth :
blah blah blah Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming the Unknown Investor... | |
| | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | Re: BPL will never overtake Cable/DSL TOO FUNNY!!!!!!!
:D:D | |
| rollobancher
join:2003-04-11
Salinas, CA
| Another Alternative I really dont give if it doesnt take over cable or dsl. All i care about is if BPL can give me over a 52-kbps connection that my dial-up ISp is providing me. I really dont get you guys that already have broadband and are dissing on BPL. Dont you remember the days when you were stuck on dial-up also ???? IT SUCKS! | |
| | 
TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Another Alternative said by rollobancher : I really dont give if it doesnt take over cable or dsl. All i care about is if BPL can give me over a 52-kbps connection that my dial-up ISp is providing me. I really dont get you guys that already have broadband and are dissing on BPL. Dont you remember the days when you were stuck on dial-up also ???? IT SUCKS! Ever hear of satellite?? It is available now. It isn't perfect, but it is better than dial-up. Too expensive for you??
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Join Red Room Forum | |
| | |
somevipperson
@comcast.net
thumbs down from:
TK Junk Mail
| Re: Another Alternative Even if it was expensive to him. Does it matter to you? So poorer people shouldn't be allowed to have a HSI option even if it is inferior in speeds?
That makes sense. In your opinion we should keep dialcrap alive, huh? | |
| | | |
TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
moderated:
September 11th, @08:55PM
| Re: Another Alternative said by somevipperson :
Even if it was expensive to him. Does it matter to you? So poorer people shouldn't be allowed to have a HSI option even if it is inferior in speeds?
That makes sense. In your opinion we should keep dialcrap alive, huh?
If you can read, I never said block BPL rollout. But it isn't going to move quickly, so satellite is an OPTION if he wants higher speeds now.
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Join Red Room Forum | |
| | | | | the niTz
Premium
join:2004-07-05
Sahuarita, AZ | Re: Another Alternative isnt sat like a few hundred for setup and a hundred or so amonth for service? | |
| | | | | | raIDERspeed
join:2002-07-26
Soledad, CA | Re: Another Alternative Good I know a lot of people that live out hill's and their wireless ISP's suck.. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
Garcya
@Dial1.Atl | Re: Another Alternative You also fail to mention the upload/download caps for satellite users. Just because the fcc might say sattelite is broadband does not make it so. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Another Alternative said by Garcya :
You also fail to mention the upload/download caps for satellite users. Just because the fcc might say sattelite is broadband does not make it so.
Speeds are OK and getting better:
»New DirecWay Speeds
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Join Red Room Forum | |
| | | | | 
thejoker989
join:2004-01-17
moderated:
September 11th, @08:56PM
| Satelite is expensive and BPL is a great idea. Just because he is stuck on dial-up doesn't give you the right to assume he is finacially unstable. | |
| | | | | | wannagofast
join:2005-08-23
Cleveland, NC | Re: Another Alternative thanks | |
| | | | | | | | | | Samwoo
join:2002-02-15
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA | bpl doesn't promise more coverage at cheaper prices... where did that idea come from? | |
| | | | 
N3OGH
Will it all be Obama's fault now?
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| Oh, drop the class warfare crap, it was old in the 80's.
Hey, I'd love to have a fiber optic pipe the diameter of an elephant's trunk running into my basement. Alas, I can't afford it. I remember the days when "dial up" was 300 bps into a Wildcat! Apple II BBS. | |
| | | rollobancher
join:2003-04-11
Salinas, CA
| Yea, I know that satellite is available but personally ( and others may agree with me) i don't feel like paying $500 for the satellite alone and then $60 a month for some sleazy 512/128 kbps connection. That extra $500 spent on that satellite could go to something more use-full, like the months rent, or car payment. | |
| | | | dibbb
join:2003-09-19 | Re: Another Alternative Agreed.
Dial-up is better than DirecWay. More reliable and faster at times. | |
| |
anonME
| Wow something California is behind that I can agree to; never thought I'd see the day ::D Those of you who keep booing BPL.. nut'n but a bunch of girlie men.:) | |
| | | 
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 | Re: Another Alternative Nothing like a good irrelevent post. BPL is technologically flawed by its inherent design. | |
| | 
RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| BPL will never see significant deployment in so-called 'rural' areas, for the same reason that you don't see cable or DSL there: No return on investment. And BPL has more serious technical limitations than cable and even DSL.
The people dissing BPL aren't doing it because they already have broadband. They're doing it because it is a failed technology. The only people promoting think they can make a quick e-buck.
Sorry.
--
Let me see you make decisions, without your television. | |
| | |
TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Another Alternative said by RadioDoc :BPL will never see significant deployment in so-called 'rural' areas, for the same reason that you don't see cable or DSL there: No return on investment. And BPL has more serious technical limitations than cable and even DSL. The people dissing BPL aren't doing it because they already have broadband. They're doing it because it is a failed technology. The only people promoting think they can make a quick e-buck. Sorry. In rural areas, I agree with you. Unless Wimax or something else comes along that is economical, satellite is still the only non-dialup option.
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Join Red Room Forum | |
| pmk11584
join:2002-08-21
Lafayette, LA |  So Long HF
 :(
73,
de KE5ASZ | |
| |
See 14 replies to this post | |
the niTz
Premium
join:2004-07-05
Sahuarita, AZ
edit:
September 11th, @03:40PM
| ODD about 1 hr ago i posted and ppl replied now those posts are gone?
NVM | |
| | JohnA
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA | Re: ODD Look under MY (left navigation bar), Posts, Posts. Somehow they got unlinked from here, but they didn't totally go away. | |
|
rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA | First BPL in CA ? SDG&E's trial is not the first in the state as the article states. In 2004, there was a BPL trial involving AT&T and Pacific Gas & Electric, in Menlo Park. AT&T pulled out in October 2004 and PG&E pulled the plug. | |
|
rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| BPL Misconceptions 101 "The fact that electrical power lines already reach virtually every home in the state makes BPL an important tool in our effort to make broadband accessible to every household in California,”
This is perhaps the biggest misconception/assumption that makes BPL look so attractive. The powerline is a small component of the system. There needs to be feedpoint equipment, repeaters, and facilities to get the Internet traffic from the network to the feedpoint. Mr. Peevey should note that there's also copper twisted pair going to most every home... why isn't this an "important tool" and why isn't there broadband to all these homes, especially considering copper twisted pair can provide more bandwidth at longer distances than BPL? | |
|
BPLSUCKS
@comcast.net
| It sucks... I live in Grand Ledge Michigan a testing site for bpl technology and it sucks...for one it interfears with ALL shortwave and long-distance A.M and HAM transmissions...Plus the max speed is 3 meg down and thats the most expensive package! I am going before out city as soon as bpl proves to be a big flop and going to suggest muni. Fiber service running an a few oc98 lines from a CO in lansing and then to the rest of the town...mmmm...20 megs both ways sounds good to me . If you want to help me come up with a presentation please email me at michael.nospam.mcpeek@gmail.nospam.com (Just remove the nospam's ) | |
| 
richk_1957
If ..Then..Else
Premium
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith
| You people never learn It's going to take a major accident, where people are killed, because BPL interfered with communications to make everyone take notice just how interfering it can be. Sure, Ham Radio operators are the most vocal, but if you look at a frequency chart of allocations to the HF spectrum, Ham's are only a small part. There are many, many, many other services that it would affect. | |
| | Darkk
join:2003-10-03
Almont, MI
·Charter Pipeline
edit:
September 11th, @07:57PM
| Re: You people never learn said by richk_1957 :It's going to take a major accident, where people are killed, because BPL interfered with communications to make everyone take notice just how interfering it can be. Sure, Ham Radio operators are the most vocal, but if you look at a frequency chart of allocations to the HF spectrum, Ham's are only a small part. There are many, many, many other services that it would affect. I hate to say it, but I think you're right.
Take the shortwave broadcast frequencies. Most Americans are oblivious to these, while the rest of the world isn't. There is a whole other world of radio programs out there to listen to, from around the world.
In the Katrina disaster, the powerhouse radio station WWL 870, that dropped to half power to conserve fuel to it's generator and was off for two days during the worst of it, is simulcast over shortwave to get the story out of New Orleans on several different shortwave channels. Survivors around the US have been using this to keep in touch and find each other via a call-in show running 24x7 interspersed with other reports.
With BPL, this shortwave reception would be impossible, and these receptions are not protected by ham notching or other schemes to protect ham operators. These HF users are just out of luck, trampled by the BPL noise.
Then there are the other government channels.
It gets tedious listening to non-technical individuals with no idea how a technology operates, touting it as the best thing since sliced bread. It reminds me of the play "The Emperor's New Clothes."
A non-technical and politically motivated former FCC director Michael Powell, and commissioner Susan Abernathy have begun possibly irreparable harm to the nations precious HF spectrum pushing BPL, pushed costly HDTV on Americans, and are in the process of ruining the AM broadcast band with the hash and interference of IBOC HD radio (in-band on-channel, but really in-band adjacent-channel because the stations jam two channels below and two channels above the transmit carrier channel) so that even AM clear channel radio stations will have mutual interference, and be unlistenable in vast parts of the country.
I sincerely hope that it isn't too late for the new and highly technically qualified FCC director to get things on the right track again.
We can do HF and broadband. Current BPL designs just aren't the way to do it. | |
| plattypus1
join:2005-04-08
Riverside, CA | Good luck... I'm only a no-code tech, but my sympathies go out to HF users in southern california.
Good luck, guys. -KF6CZG | |
| |
rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: Good luck... said by plattypus1 :I'm only a no-code tech, but my sympathies go out to HF users in southern california. Code or no-code, Tech or Extra, you're still an Amateur and one of us  | |
| | | Slacker44
join:2001-05-10
Gilbert, AZ
| Re: Good luck... One thing I don't understand. I would say most of the problem people have is with emergency situations. The simple answer to that would be to have a law or rule to turn off the BPL in that area during those situations. Why wouldn't that solve the problem people have with BPL in those situations? | |
| | | | Darkk
join:2003-10-03
Almont, MI
·Charter Pipeline
edit:
September 12th, @09:44AM
| Re: Good luck... said by Slacker44 :One thing I don't understand. I would say most of the problem people have is with emergency situations. The simple answer to that would be to have a law or rule to turn off the BPL in that area during those situations. Why wouldn't that solve the problem people have with BPL in those situations? And how much incentive is there for a Ham to spend many thousands of dollars for equipment and antennas they never get to use. Do you think they'll do that to see it gathering dust until some emergency?
No way to test the equipment, no way to keep sharp, practice handling traffic for emergencies?
How many people would own a car and park it for use only during emergencies?
Look at all of the folks in New Orleans who didn't have cars squirreled away just so they cold use them in an emergency. They had trouble getting out of town.
It isn't just Hams, it's government, marine, FEMA, military, and more that use HF.
Additionally, far off BPL installations will add to the overall noise floor of the HF band in use. This makes communications in the affected area difficult, even if the local BPL carrier would shut down.
Do you think, really, that any BPL carrier is ever going to shut down someone's Internet for an emergency? It'll never happen. Remember that these BPL carriers are Part 15 users, they are supposed to stop using BPL if there is interference, but will they? Past experience has shown that they won't.
BPL is a bad idea from a technical standpoint as currently implemented. It is an unlicensed service interfering with licensed users. By the very nature of how it currently works and how the power grid (poorly maintained as it is) is designed, according to the laws of physics BPL must cause interference. And it does.
Let's just hope none of our pension plans have much invested in Enron, er... I mean Ambient and other similar BPL technologies. | |
| | | |
rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| said by Slacker44 :One thing I don't understand. I would say most of the problem people have is with emergency situations. The simple answer to that would be to have a law or rule to turn off the BPL in that area during those situations. Why wouldn't that solve the problem people have with BPL in those situations? During the FCC NPRM (Notice of Proposed Rulemaking) comment period, BPL carriers complained about having to register their systems in a public database. Carriers didn't even want to commit to any specific timeframe to investigate and resolve interference issues or have someone available 7x24 to answer the phone, so it's doubtful they'll agree to turn off their entire system with one phone call.
Even if such an emergency "off switch" were implemented, it would have to be on a national level. HF stations in a disaster area may communicate with anyone in the US, or beyond. BPL interference is a local phenomenon, but a BPL system in Peoria can make for problems with someone passing health and welfare traffic from Katrina if the person receiving the traffic is in Peoria.
Don't expect the FCC to mandate the off switch anytime soon. This would pretty much make the FCC look like a bunch of buffoons who made bad decision in allowing BPL to continue (and confirm what many are saying ). | |
| | | | | w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO
| Re: Good luck... Yes that is absolutely true but also no one ever mentions the fact that the BPL noise in Peoria could also skip via the ionosphere to CA., or N.Y., or even New Orleans. None of these companies have done any testing in this area, it would take years of data to predict exactly how far the BPL noise could travel given certain band conditions (which are always changing). A low power signal of only 1 watt can travel to Europe and Africa and even Japan on 14-28 Mhz. This is right in the middle of the broadband BPL signal, and if it were deployed widely, all the medium voltage wires that it is traveling on would add in random directions to create a much more powerful signal. To predict the direction and power levels in any direction would be highly complex and the companies could not handle this level of competence. Just another fact that no one ever talks about even the responsible companies pushing the trash. | |
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California Embraces BPL
BPL will never overtake Cable/DSL
