 
Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting | Funny For an FCC so against "burdensome regulations", this order seems awfully cumbersome.
I must acknowledge my VoIP 911 service has issues, or my punishment is my VoIP line can only be used for 911 calls. That is pretty damn funny. | |
|  | Trill
join:2003-12-18
Crestview, FL | Re: Funny Only funny if E911 didn't work on any phones from any VoIP provider. This is not the case, so the policy makes perfect sense. | |
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Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting
| Re: Funny quote:
Only funny if E911 didn't work on any phones from any VoIP provider. This is not the case
If the 911 service worked, then "the policy" was unecessary in the first place.
What is this, Terry Gilliam's "Brazil"? Vonage forget to fill out form 27-B/6? | |
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rachelsfx
join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL | They should be required to provide 911 service. I bet their is a surcharge for it? | |
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Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR | Over and Over (Set a date. Extend it. Set a date. Extend it.)* ∞ | |
| | | | | manifest
bitches
join:2004-08-14
Hartford, CT | Re: Over and Over Wrong, it is not for HDTV it's for digital tv. Two very different things. »www.fcc.gov/dtv/ | |
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dslwanter
Broadband blackhole no more
Premium
join:2002-12-16
Lowellville, OH | Great More time for innocent people to call 911 and not be able to talk and hang up and die because 911 could not trace back the call.
I love my landline. | |
| | 
ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | Re: Great They have been warned many many times... | |
| 
hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs: | Think about it Not only have they extended but,what about CELL phones?
They where to have 911 to your location but never did it.(far as i know)
Fcc lets that slip by, ooo thats right the bells can BUY there way out of it. | |
| | fitzov
join:2005-01-13
Mansfield Center, CT | Re: Think about it FCC lets that slip by because VOIP providers have no political clout other than offering their customers an awesome deal. Go figure. | |
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fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY
| said by hayabusa3303  :Not only have they extended but,what about CELL phones? They where to have 911 to your location but never did it.(far as i know) Fcc lets that slip by, ooo thats right the bells can BUY there way out of it. As far as i've seen, and on every cell phone i have ever had (going back ohh around 5+ years), they ALL have E911 service....even if NOT ACTIVE (no pricing plan). In fact, my girlfriend's cell phone, my parents, and my sisters all have LBS (Location Based Services) with two options:
1) Enabled
2) Disabled (Except E911)
Although i've never had to call 911 on a cell for an emergency (My first 3 or so phones i called to test it), but if they are making this much fuss over VoIP, i'm gonna bet that cell 911 is pretty good. | |
| | | k_mumm
join:2001-06-14
Laramie, WY | Re: Think about it No it's not good at all. The blame can also be put on some of the 911 call centers. They don't have the cash to update thier systems to interface with the new cell phone emegency location system. | |
| | | ronny_b
join:2004-10-10
Saint Louis, MO
| I had to call 911 for emergencies twice a few years ago. In both cases, the call went to a different city, and had to be transferred back to my location. My cell service was with AT&T if that counts for anything.
It may be better today. Thank God I haven't had to find out.
Ron | |
| | | gbh2o
join:2000-12-18
Greenville, NC
 ·STANAPHONE
·VOIPo
·VBUZZER
·Voxee
 ·Embarq
·callwithus
·MyPhoneCompany
·Axvoice
·Packet8
| said by fcisler :said by hayabusa3303 :As far as i've seen, and on every cell phone i have ever had (going back ohh around 5+ years), they ALL have E911 service....even if NOT ACTIVE (no pricing plan). In fact, my girlfriend's cell phone, my parents, and my sisters all have LBS (Location Based Services) with two options: 1) Enabled 2) Disabled (Except E911) If my memory serves me right, _only_ the old AMPs service had a requirement to provide 911 on a phone without service. And yes, it still works for me on any AMPs capable phone that has ever been activated. I have _never_ had Location Based Services, partly because I don't like the idea of anyone having the ability to easily track me, whether I want it or not. My cell phone is _very_ mobile, and any location information available for 911 would likely fail to locate me. If my phone is on, they can always try to triangulate my location, but that is all. Likewise, my VoIP service also travel with me. Short of trying to make a general geographic location based on IP in use, it is unlikely that E911 would provide meaningful information. However, I do have a POTS line with E911... why should I be forced to pay repetitive fees for what is for me mobile service? Simply, to further line the tax coffers of some level of government agency cozy with some so-called public utility... follow the money trail. | |
| | | | dustman81
join:2002-05-28
Stow, OH
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Think about it I had to call 911 from my e911-ready cell phone a couple of months ago around Cleveland to report a car fire. The operator didn't know my location and I had to give a cross street to pinpoint my location.
The phones may be ready, but the network is not. | |
| | 
mikes60
A View From Paradise
Premium
join:2001-07-31
Boynton Beach, FL
·AT&T Southeast
| said by hayabusa3303 :Not only have they extended but,what about CELL phones? They where to have 911 to your location but never did it.(far as i know) Fcc lets that slip by, ooo thats right the bells can BUY there way out of it. Many cell phones do give locations, but you're comparing apples to oranges.
Cell phones are portable and never have an exact address associated them. The technology to do this is available, but expensive and difficult to implement.
Land line VOIP phones usually have an exact address associated with them. There are exceptions, such as I know are available on Vonage and probably others, where you can pick another area code for your number. If you do this, and dial 911, it's obviousy a problem unless you set it up correctly with Vonage. They may have a way of identifying where the phone is actually located. But I'm not sure of this.
While I'm not sure another extension was proper, a comparison to cell phones is not valid
--
Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday--so why bother? | |
| | | Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
·AT&T CallVantage
| Re: Think about it [BQUOTE=mikes60While I'm not sure another extension was proper, a comparison to cell phones is not valid
[/BQUOTE
The extension is simply for VoIP customers to acknowledge the limitations of VoIP (E- or "not E") 911 in comparison with PSTN E911. I believe a better analogy here would be for the government to demand that a company prove it has received 100% of its recalled product within 30 days of notification when a safety recall is demanded. Many people will ignore canned voicemails, bright snail mail flyers, and form emails. The more attention-grabbing, the more likely some people are to assume that the notification is a marketing gimmick and toss it. I personally think the short time lines given for VoIP E911 implementation and acknowledgement-of-limitations are not reasonable.
--
»www.voipboards.net | |
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mikes60
A View From Paradise
Premium
join:2001-07-31
Boynton Beach, FL | Re: Think about it I don't really disagree with you. I was really responding to the cell phone analogy. I just didn't want to get into a discussion about the extension.
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Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday--so why bother? | |
| L2006
join:2001-12-03
Stratford, ON | Difficult??? I HAD to respond on my packet8 line... when I tried to make a call, i was voice prompted to make a decision, either press 1 for I understand, or 2 for not in the USA or don't want it.
Doesn't get any easier than that!! | |
| | | | RiftReaper
join:2002-02-21
Vancouver, WA
| cell phones are cool! because they dial the 911 center closest to where you are at the time. so if you live in LA and have a cell phone number in LA and take a trip to NY and have to dial 911, you will get a 911 center in NY. That is the same basic concept that VOIP providers are trying to deploy. | |
| | | k_mumm
join:2001-06-14
Laramie, WY
| Re: Difficult??? You do understand it's a lot harder for a voip adapter to know where it is physically located right? I haven't heard of a good solution for the system to automatically update where it is without user input.
Cell phones are easy. They always know what tower they are on and the provider routes the call accordingly. | |
| | | | RiftReaper
join:2002-02-21
Vancouver, WA | Re: Difficult??? what about the adapter whois the IP it is using and calling the city or town that is resolved too. | |
| RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| How many people really read this? Note: It not just that it is a fiasco, part of the problem being addressed in this note is that people like us who are posting on this board are *ignoring* the request to acknowledge that they understand there may be a problem with VoIP in an emergency (limitations of VoIP 911) or to *lose* their service.
I make no judgement on the quality of the email they are asked to respond to, just that it appears to be a dumb request/law/whatever if you have the slightest clue of how people respond.
And who knows why? Are they on vacation? Working away from home? Spam Filter? Lazy? Do not open strange email?
If the VoIP service was arbitrarily canceled like the initial letter seems to have implied, can you imagine the lawsuits? "I never received that email!" "My filter must have seen it as a spam" "I was not home!".
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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cob_
1310nm Of Goodness
Premium
join:2003-07-08
Tulsa, OK | Re: How many people really read this? In at least Vonage's case, it's not even an email. It's a snail mail letter with stickers included. | |
| | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Re: How many people really read this? said by cob_ :In at least Vonage's case, it's not even an email. It's a snail mail letter with stickers included. Depending on how much junk comes out under Vonage's name, that may make it into the trash unopened.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
| | | 
DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
edit:
August 26th, @05:43PM
| said by cob_ :In at least Vonage's case, it's not even an email. It's a snail mail letter with stickers included. Ayup and all they have to do is dial your number...
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A free 12 dBi antenna? | |
| 
DreamWraith
Premium
join:2004-04-07
Mount Vernon, WA
·Comcast
| Re:911 The statement that there is no easy way to locate where a VOIP box is, is IMO, not the case. A simple tracert, combined with lookups on the IP might not give you an exact address, but at the very least, an idea of where it's general vicinity it. That should be enough to, at the very least, direct the call to the closest 911 center. That is just a matter of implementation.
If they WANTED to, they could take it a step futher. They could set up the voip service to store exact address information inside the modem, which can be changed on the fly, and then transmitted over the lines. Again, just a matter of implementation.
Cellphone systems, while to a certain extent automatically can determine your location, will sometimes get confused. For instance, there is a cell tower in my town, and another across the county line ~10 miles away. If i am visiting a friend out in the country in between, i could connect to either tower at any given time.
Furthermore, Although it is possible to determine a near exact geophysical location of a cellphone at the given time of a call, at the current time, it is very expensive, and is usually only possible in metro areas. It takes at least 3 cellphone towers to triangulate the exact location of a cell phone. Aside from that, about all you can get would be a somewhat ok judged "search" radius based on signal strength and SNR. The only real cure for this is GPS in all phones. But we know where that would go... Government tracking our every move conspiracies... etc... etc...
Every system has it's problems. And every system has a lot of things they could do to make it better. It is simply a matter of implementation.
I use Vonage myself, and I don't personally take my Vonage box anywhere. I DO see the reason some might though, (traveling businesspeople), and, simply for ease of use, it would be nice if Vonage would implement some better stuff. The main problem I have, is that it takes 3-5 days for your 911 address to update. I don't see any reason for this. IMO it should be instant. Also, address verification should not be done, because in some cases, a person may live in a newly developed area, and their address may not officially exist "on the books". As of yet, my 911 service is seamless for me. My address and phone number go through t 911 without a hitch. I know, because my wife has seizures, and i have already had to make the call once.
Anyways, that is my 3.5 cents. | |
| 
elias
Premium,VIP
join:2000-07-24
Miami, FL
clubs:
| Redirect Is there a way they can disconnect their service and have all outbound calls end-up at a call center set-up for this 911 transition?
-- Elias
--
My Webmaster Gig | Crunching the Midnight Oil | |
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VoIP Providers Get 911 Extension
Re: Difficult???