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story category Get Naked!
States growing weary of bell procrastination
(old news - 11:59AM Friday Aug 26 2005)
tags: dsl · bundles
Back in May an SBC spokesman had this to say about naked DSL: "We haven't seen a significant market demand for it, and our customers show us increasingly they are interested in bundled services." Odd, since we've watched customers across the country complain for six years about the inability to buy DSL without being forced into buying local phone service... .

Cable providers don't offer sub-500kbps "lite" tiers because they're afraid customers will downgrade and they'll lose money. Telcos aren't offering naked DSL because they're afraid they'll lose even more landline revenue. The reality is they'll get naked when they're ready to migrate you to their VoIP services.

To justify the stalling tactics to customers, telcos have spent half a decade pretending that offering stand alone DSL was illegal, technologically impossible, would cause the oxidation and failure of copper, or the latest bluffs: it's already available and/or nobody wants it.

In California, the PUC is growing tired of the excuses and is taking action; nudging (but not forcing) SBC to unbundle DSL and local phone service. Some want to make naked DSL an approval condition of SBC's merger with AT&T.

"We're always working to meet the needs of our customers, and because some of them may be interested in stand alone DSL service in the future, we are evaluating the technical issues involved," SBC says in a statement. "We may, at a future date, trial standalone DSL service on a limited basis."

So now SBC admits customers want it, but we're to believe the brightest minds at SBC just can't seem to overcome "technical issues"?

Verizon has also been dragging their feet, Verizon execs insisting naked DSL is "generally available"; It isn't.

Existing customers in their Northeast (old Nynex and Bell Atlantic) territories can now switch their local phone service to a competitor without fear of having their DSL line terminated. Back in May customers were following this convoluted process to order naked DSL:
•Order Verizon POTS, get phone number•Order DSL via Verizon Online, get that working•Have DSL billed to your credit card•Order VOIP or cell service•Port POTS/DSL phone number to VOIP or cell service•POTS service is removed, DSL remains•Dump VOIP
They've since simplified the process, though it's only available in select communities in the Northeast. Verizon continues to claim technical hurdles are responsible for the delay in offering all territories naked DSL. That's not "generally available", it's "half-assed".

As with SBC. state regulators are also growing tired of Verizon's excuses. NY Attorney General Eliot Spitzer wants naked DSL offered as a condition of the Verizon/MCI merger. A few weeks ago, Florida Attorney General Charlie Crist forced Verizon to unbundle after BrightHouse Networks - who is pitching VoIP - filed a suit with the Florida PSC, accusing Verizon of anticompetitive behavior.

How many more years will SBC and Verizon give customers excuses as to why they can't offer them the most simple of services? Just DSL, please.

Related:
  1. Embarq Explains Naked DSL Offer
  2. AT&T Hints At Femtocell Service
  3. Verizon To Offer Broadband Wireless Bundle Discount
  4. Verizon Offers Wireless/Broadband Bundle Discount
  5. Consumer Reports: FiOS, U-Verse Best Triple Play
  6. Verizon Reports Largest FiOS Additions To Date
  7. AT&T Starts Selling DirecTV
  8. Verizon: Cut Your Landline To Save Money
Forums » Get Naked!
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Post a:
B777300

join:2002-01-02

1 edit

Yeah get naked already

I wanna see some exposed conductors!
md911

join:2004-05-17
Los Angeles, CA

Re: Yeah get naked already

And who or where is SBC getting the idea that people want bundled services? Naked DSL ony please - I don't need bundled services or the fact that they have to bill a home phone number in order to get DSL.
gh4456
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-07
Beverly Hills, CA

Re: Yeah get naked already

It will be interesting to see how PUC's can force this, but the feds just said ILEC's do not have to let ISP's use their data lines. This seems contradicting, as the states are saying this is a regulated service (as they can impose their power on how they sell it) and the feds are saying its not regulated (by stating that ISP's have no right to purchase data services).

I work for Sprint, and we did a naked DSL trial in Florida last year. To be honest, I didn't see anyone go for it. The main reason was, most people have POTS so it didn't make since. And if they didn't have POTS, they had cable and VOIP, so there was no way to hit that market.

I don't see why not take the DSL revenue and go with it, even if it means you don't have the POTS service. Its just another service with prices powered by the competition. But Sprint's trials ended with the same result, lack of interest by the consumer.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast

Re: Yeah get naked already

I would jump to DSL in a heartbeat if I didn't have to buy a phone line. I currently have a mobile phone, CATV, and cable internet. I don't want/need a dial tone from my bell or cable company. I realize that I'm not the norm, but that shouldn't prevent me from having service if I want it. If Sprint tested it and didn't have any takers, what does it hurt to continue offering the capability for the few that would actually take the offer?
gh4456
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-07
Beverly Hills, CA

Re: Yeah get naked already

They may end up doing that, as the desire for Naked DSL continues. Sprints way of doing it was a bit different. See with our system, DSL is assigned through phone numbers. They were actually setting up POTS accounts for the customers and only allowing 911 service to go through, as it was an easy implementation in the residential billing system.

Going to just a DSL circuit with no POTS, means assigning circuit ID numbers, which residential reps have no idea how to look up, only business reps do who handle T-1's. Yes it would only take a day or two of training, but that is 1000's of reps. So you can see where I am going with that.

Anyways, I would think most consumers, who do the VOIP with Naked DSL would appreciate the POTS line with 911 access only, as they do not have to pay for it.

What are some opinions on that?

~DSL Tech
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast

Re: Yeah get naked already

I haven't actually tested it, but I've read that phone lines allow 911 access without having service. Is that not true?

I really don't care if I have 911 or not. I don't care how the bells give me DSL, whether it be via a restricted phone line with only 911 service, or just a pair or two of copper with no dial tone at all. I just want an internet connection. If my local bell could give me DSL with at least 1 Mbps for $40/mth, I'm happy.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Let's put it this way... If Qwest can do it, anyone can. I've been naked for a year and without 911.

I think the REAL problem is that others have watched Qwest's run. They have lost customers over naked DSL. Many like me are dropping pots for dry. In this area, there are options for phone such as Cable Digital Phone which is better and cheaper. It's definetly hurt Qwests bottom line. Qwest has also dropped their bundled price alot to attract their customers to come back. I'd say that power houses like SBC and Verizon don't want to see it.

You also have to admit, thinking on the east coast is MUCH different that it is on the west or even on the mid west.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA

Re: Yeah get naked already

The Bells need to start realizing that they don't monopolize the market anymore and they need to start competing on service and price.

rachelsfx

join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL

Propaganda:

You could easily go to what is known as an "Account Number." Like maybe your master login email address? Naked DSL deployment not being offered is pure crap issued by Bell morons. They just don't want all those POTS lines to disappear. When I had DSL, they always asked me for my login email account! Oh, I guess that was just to, what, send me an email? Post that techno-babble elsewhere where some idiot will buy it. LOL@DSL Tech.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME


2 edits
Currently:
SBC bundle
POTS: $13/mo
LD: $20/mo
DSL: $15/mo

POTS is a cash cow, considering what you get: dialtone

I'm sure that one of 2 things will happen:
If (when) 'naked' DSL comes around, SBC will still want to make $$,

Bundled
Naked DSL: $25/mo (remember no POTS!),
VoIP: $20
discounts would be available for bundling more services in.

You save a whole $3/month before FUSF, taxes, fees, and un-fees.

BOGBS
Premium
join:2004-05-11
Saco, ME
·RoadRunner Cable


1 edit

Already have it..

I have naked DSL through an CLEC (GWI) already. 55/mo for 8/1 sync rates. Only served in Maine and NH though. I'm glad I got to dump the POTS line I don't need after years of having one sitting there for nothing

»www.gwi.net/residential/highspee···eed.html

cao1964

join:2000-08-09
Danville, PA

Re: Already have it..

I have naked DSL through an CLEC (GWI) already. 55/mo for 8/1 sync rates. Only served in Maine and NH though. I'm glad I got to dump the POTS line I don't need after years of having one sitting there for nothing

Sweet, nice, any problems? Sound like non.

BOGBS
Premium
join:2004-05-11
Saco, ME

Re: Already have it..

no problems yet, just placed my second order for my new location. works well so far. (sorry about late response, just got done moving)

Rob A
Jets AFC Championship
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ

Come and get it!

Available here: »www22.verizon.com/forhomedsl/cha···dryloop/

Click link to check if its available to you.

BOGBS
Premium
join:2004-05-11
Saco, ME

Re: Come and get it!

that's pretty neat, if i didn't already have cheaper DSL, I'd give that a try hehe, just to see if it'd actually work (the order) here in Maine
Network Guy

join:2000-08-25
New York
·PHONE POWER
·Broadvox Direct
·Verizon Online DSL

They're playing themselves though.

There's an address literally feet away from my house that the website apparently doesn't recognize. Mine shows up pressumably 'cause I have VOL and local.

Either they're using separate databases and the new one has close to nothing in it, or they're cross-referencing those non-Verizon customers off the old database and spitting out that error message in return.

mustang03282

join:2003-01-10
Bridgeton, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS

its says i can currenty get a dry loop line but yesterday when i downgraded my service to the cheepest package because i have voip now hte csr at verizon said dry loops arent avalable i even had her check with her supervisor
JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL

We have a TRIFECTA!

WOW, 3 articles for today. 1 bashing Comcast bundles,1 Comcast bad service and 1 about Verizon/SBC not offering naked DSL.All we need is a rehash about the US falling behind on broadband penetration and we have yahtzee!

Bill
Light Up The Halo
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-09
clubs:

Re: We have a TRIFECTA!

Or an article about the Patriot Act and/or President Bush's Supreme Court nominee.

Minister

join:2002-01-02
Fleeting

Comcast holding back speed upgrades from customers who don't but TV service is a legit debate users are having. Florida and NY pushing SBC & Verizon to offer stand-alone DSL as conditions of their mergers is news and a legit debate users are having.

Sounds like this is what you're looking for:

»newscenter.verizon.com/

Nobody asks "why" there.
JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL


1 edit

Re: We have a TRIFECTA!

No, but this place seem to be very negative lately. Big companies can do no good should be the motto here. Comcast has close to 8 million internet subs. Of course they are going to have some and by some I mean less than 1% that will have problems.Verizon is spending billions on laying fiber but yet they suck because they are not offering naked dsl. Hello Voip is great but still most folks have Pots, so naked Dsl is not an issue except to a few.

Minister

join:2002-01-02
Fleeting

Re: We have a TRIFECTA!

It seems to me that when companies release new speeds or lower prices or deploy something cool it gets reported. When they screw up or lie it gets reported. The resulting ratio is not the fault of Broadband Reports I don't think.
kristianway

join:2001-12-15
Plano, TX
Not sure what you mean by that. I have not now nor ever had TV service and my pipe to my house has held steady for some time at 5070 down.

Minister

join:2002-01-02
Fleeting

Re: We have a TRIFECTA!

»another punishment for HSI only customers
bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus


1 edit
said by JSRoman See Profile :

WOW, 3 articles for today. 1 bashing Comcast bundles,1 Comcast bad service and 1 about Verizon/SBC not offering naked DSL.All we need is a rehash about the US falling behind on broadband penetration and we have yahtzee!
It is, however, no worse that being a bunch of corporate shills who repeat the mantra...

"What's good for big business is always good for you... Ommm... Ommm..."

inzomniaq

join:2003-01-12
Houston, TX

Guess the RBOC's will need to consult with Covad.

As they've apparently been overcoming the insurmountable technical hurdles that the regional bells have been struggling with. Funny, don't providers that offer 'naked' DSL, like Covad, use a substantial amount of the bells' own equipment? I imagine, but don't know for sure, Covad may use some of their own switch gear, but not everything they use for naked DSL was put in place by Covad.

Not that I believe the 'evaluating technical issues' claim any more than anyone else on this forum.

garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY

Re: Guess the RBOC's will need to consult with Covad.

said by inzomniaq See Profile :

As they've apparently been overcoming the insurmountable technical hurdles that the regional bells have been struggling with. Funny, don't providers that offer 'naked' DSL, like Covad, use a substantial amount of the bells' own equipment? I imagine, but don't know for sure, Covad may use some of their own switch gear, but not everything they use for naked DSL was put in place by Covad.

Not that I believe the 'evaluating technical issues' claim any more than anyone else on this forum.
you're thinking SDSL on its own "naked" pair. the wire and everything it goes through is bell, but the DSLAM is covad.
psx_defector

join:2001-06-09
Allen, TX

Re: Guess the RBOC's will need to consult with Covad.

»www.speakeasy.net/home/onelink/

Speakeasy is a Covad reseller.

You can also get an ADSL dry pair from Covad directly. Ive seen it done.

grunt187

join:2001-11-19
Hornell, NY

It IS available, just have to talk to right people

Naked DSL is available, but obviously they aren't going to flaunt it out there in front all their other packages. You just have to find the right person to talk to, or talk to a wholesaler of Verizon DSL.
cwoody222

join:2005-05-24

Verizon's easier now

Yes, it was a convoluted process back in May when Verizon started offering naked DSL.

Since then they've ironed out some wrinkles and they HAVE made it easier. You can simply order it online.

You do NOT have to order a line, then port it, then cancel it anymore.

»[connectivity] Naked DSL yet?

JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:

Re: Verizon's easier now

I said it before, and I'll say it again:

The notion that Verizon is too technically challenged to figure out how to provide naked DSL is absurd.

It's good to hear that they're finally doing it.

Jerm

join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA

Well no, wait, except their not!

I have Verizon DSL. I've been trying to go "dry" for a few months now. I don't even want to begin to get into the saga - the moral of the story is:

Verizon has naked DSL in select areas of the NE only! Heck I even called Verizon's own VOIP (Voicewing) to see if I could get that instead of my landline - and those guys admitted since I was in the NorthWest it was a no-go.

JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:

Re: Well no, wait, except their not!

Hmmm... I guess cwoody222 See Profile is in one of those select areas. It stinks that they're being so geographically selective.

I wonder if the same would happen if you tried to switch to VZ wireless.
cwoody222

join:2005-05-24

Yes, I'm in the Northeast.

It's only to old Bell Atlantic and GTE areas currently due to the legacy systems that those areas use.

They needed upgrades to billing systems and such and they have various systems across the country so they're changing over in stages.

NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
·VOIPo

I ordered Naked DSL

Well contrary to what the author claims is convoluted, on Wednesday I ordered Dry Loop DSL online. Credit card.
Thursday by noon Verizon was at my NID installing the Pots line (with a special line treatment to prevent calls) on which the DSL will ride.
This morning my wireless router modem combo has shipped so I can't see where Verizon is being "difficult" in this regard.
I'm looking forward to being able to dump Optimum Online because it is overrated.
More details as the installation progresses.
Smithtown NY Central office.
--
»voipboards.net

denzilla

@sc.charter

Oh sure....

Sure, they'll get naked and tack on a 20 "universal service" fee or find some other way to penalize the customer. I absolutely hate the way the world works these days.

chlen
Ethically Challenged
Premium
join:2001-01-16
Albany, NY

Marketing Crap

They have been advertizing naked DSL from Verizon in Albany NY for a few month $34 for 3/768. I put in an order for my house as I recently dropped cable TV, and pay 50 for TW RR. 3 weeks later still nothing from VZ. So I called them and asked wtf? They told me that there pulling back the marketing and will not be offering naked DSL. I said "well there are signs all over the town with offers". The rep said it will not be available til probably next year, and they were supposed to start selling it in MAY. I asked about my order and she said its just going to sit there. Nothing will come of it. Also then she told me that rr has a customer retention program and I quote the rep "they don't know you can't get DSL, tell them youre thiking about getting it and the'll give you some discounts". I called rr after and they gave me 6 mo. for 29.99, ($38 after taxes ...etc..).

Speakeasy does offer dry loop dsl, but the price is rediculous. 1.5/256 for $39, while rr is 6/512 for 44.99 if you dont have cable. Its not too fair.
--
»www.importtheband.com

rollinraverboi

@verizon.ne

Naked Avail.

In the former BA area, you can order naked dsl with no problems. This is assuming you live within the distance limits and have a "PLAIN OLE COPPER" line. no rt's, no overlay dslam's, just a plain old (and it probably is) copper line.
yvovandoorn
Premium
join:2003-11-06
Renton, WA

Naked DSL has its problems.

Naked DSL is more reliable, but there are some major drawbacks.

The biggest one being that the phone company techs aren't really familiar with the technology. I work in the industry and we offer naked dsl. The biggest problem we have is phone company techs using the pair for someone else without realizing that there is service on it, because that is the drawback of Naked DSL.... no dial tone.

This is the most familiar scenario I am seeing...
Phone company tech is called out to either switch pairs due to line degradation on the old pair and/or install a new line into a multiunit complex. Tech tests the naked DSL pair and uses it as a replacement pair w/o realizing there is service on it (marking it really doesn't make a gigantic difference). Our customer is now without their DSL service. Customer finally gets restored on a different and very often less reliable pair (very often the pair that another customer was taken off of because of the quality).

Now of course when the ILECs start offering naked DSL... HOPEFULLY we will see more phone company techs with some more knowledge.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA

Re: Naked DSL has its problems.

If the workforce is trained, there won't be problems. I'm sure every phone tech received training on how to handle their equipment and punch down phone cable. Train them regarding dry lines and the problem goes away.
yvovandoorn
Premium
join:2003-11-06
Renton, WA

Re: Naked DSL has its problems.

Yet your always going to have an unreliable tech. Come on the common fear of a phone company tech is that they are there to screw things up even more. At least that is the idea I get from friends and family. If they can't even fix 100 year old technology properly that does have a dial tone, we suddenly have to have faith in them to fix 21st century tech.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA

Re: Naked DSL has its problems.

So with that logic, they'll break my DSL connection wether I have dial tone or not.

richardpor
Fur it up

join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR

Government Has no Business

Government should not use its power to tell private companies what services to offer. It like the health department forcing hotdog stands the must offer hotdogs with out the buns. If a private business does not want to offer naked DSL either bit the bullet and buy pots line or tough titty.

cao1964

join:2000-08-09
Danville, PA

Re: Government Has no Business

>>Government should not use its power to tell private companies what services to offer. It like the health department forcing hotdog stands the must offer hotdogs with out the buns. If a private business does not want to offer naked DSL either bit the bullet and buy pots line or tough titty.

Really, you must be a mama boy, if I want something I wanted and I don't need any company telling me what is better for me. But I guess your use to having people tell you what to do all the time.

richardpor
Fur it up

join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR

Re: Government Has no Business

>>>Really, you must be a mama boy, if I want something I wanted and I don't need any company telling me what is better for me. But I guess your use to having people tell you what to do all the time.

So you do not like companies telling you what is better for you, good on ya, but you want the right to tell companies what better for them and worst have a regulator force them. If you don't need companies telling what is good for you; then is just that you have no right to dictate what iis better for the company. If you do not like the service, do not buy the service. Money talks.
phaqu

join:2005-05-26
Marietta, GA
Maybe the government is trying to help them see what the market wants, so they wont have to bail them out of the hole they dug for themselves down the road?...... The only reason I have a land line is for dsl.
bartg

join:2000-08-27
Burbank, CA

The communications sector, under the current environment of almost complete deregulation, is once again congealing into a small number of companies that, due to their influence and control of the market, almost inevitably resort to monopolistic tactics, to the detriment of consumers. "Government" now needs to step up and fix the damage.

Hmmm . . . government is - who?

cao1964

join:2000-08-09
Danville, PA

So the states now are doing something

Please, the Tels will wine to the Fed and stop it, they will say "oh yeah we are going to do it now", and 4 years later "still working on it really we are".

I stoped believing the goverment will do anything possitive to push anything that will make the Telco go balistic on them (states) with congress making more laws limiting the states.

So I will sit back wait and see, since most people don't really care or write their congress on things that really matter you think something like this will fly.

TheSaint

join:2002-01-25
Hanover Park, IL
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·Comcast

No difference?

If the telcos are forced to offer more naked DSL it just means that the package price will go up. They'll be right in the same range as cable and we'll be back at square one. This is a no-win situation.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. --- Edmund Burke
Kill your TV, then Internet Explorer: »www.mozilla.org
Devistater

join:2004-02-13
Clovis, CA

Its all moot.

Its all a moot point anyway since that recent (this year) FCC ruling (or was it a court case?) about how the phone companies are now allowed to require phone service to get DSL. I.e. they are not required to unbundle.
gogorichie

join:2005-04-14
Palatine, IL

Get Naked!

The moment SBC in the Midwest area starts offering Naked DSL. I'm dropping my landline for good.
phaqu

join:2005-05-26
Marietta, GA

Re: Get Naked!

I ran naked for a while after MCI screwed my bill up and killed my phone.(no internet through mci, im not that stupid) Man, what a dream not having to deal with the phone co idiots for a while...( till they caught on). It was nice while it lasted.

mamoon

@fdn.com

Really naked???

I am confused about "naked" DSL. In areas with 911 service guaranteed by the local county/city the wire pairs will still allow one to use a standard phone to dial 911 and the providing phone company. That is providing phone service. Limited but still service so there is no "naked" DSL in these areas. Also the local authorities pay for the phone service to, the equipment in and staff the 911 centers. Seems like someone is crying(read lying) about what the real story is. Call it what you want but from here, the bull just seems REAL DEEP.
Forums » Get Naked!


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