Your VoIP Line May Be Terminated Next WeekIf you don't acknowledge the 911 service sucks ( old news - 12:13PM Thursday Aug 25 2005) tags: VoIPTipped by Karl Bode  If you don't respond to your VoIP provider's emails concerning the limitations of 911 service, you could find your service terminated early next week. It's part of an FCC order many providers claim is unreasonable, and at least one is suing over. Back in May a mother blamed Vonage 911 service for her baby's death, despite the fact Vonage proved to local news outlets that the 911 call in question went through - twice. That didn't seem to matter. This and other similar reports created an uproar, and VoIP 911 became a hot political issue. In some instances the problem was that customers didn't carefully read this screen, alerting them that they must manually configure 911 service before use. The customer complaints led several states to sue Vonage. Vonage responded by routing everyone to 911 centers, regardless of whether they'd configured the service or not. Too late. Despite the fact that on any given day you can find ample examples of traditional 911 failures, VoIP 911 was now an FCC and Congressional target. This prompted the creation of new laws, and an FCC order demanding all VoIP providers offer 911 service by November (some VoIP industry insiders believe this is a trojan horse effort to eliminate bell competition). VoIP provider Nuvio has decided to sue the FCC over the 120 day window, claiming the request "unreasonable, arbitrary, and because technologically infeasible, capricious."As part of the order, providers were also told they had to get 100% customer acknowledgement of the limitations of VoIP 911 by August 29. That request also hasn't sat well with VoIP providers. “You could tell people that their house is burning down and by clicking on this link you can stop it and only 60 percent of them would respond,” recently noted VoicePulse CEO Ravi Sakaria. As the hour grows late, VoIP providers have grown desperate - flinging the "our 911 service sucks" confirmation emails far and wide. Our office receives at least one a day, and we're not even a current customer. Time Warner Cable meanwhile claims they've gotten all 600,000 VoIP customers to respond ( sure they did, says CNET's Russell Shaw). Vonage states they've received confirmation from roughly 96% of their subscribers. If the estimated remaining 31,000 subscribers don't respond to Vonage by next week, they will find their services terminated.
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | The solution is simple... To call the service 9-1-1 it should have to meet certain federal standards. When VOIP operators stop calling it 9-1-1 there won't be any confusion from the idiots who ignored the 50 zillion disclaimers VOIP operators have when you sign up. | |
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P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
Cromwell, CT
clubs: 
| Re: The solution is simple... said by oliphant :To call the service 9-1-1 it should have to meet certain federal standards. When VOIP operators stop calling it 9-1-1 there won't be any confusion from the idiots who ignored the 50 zillion disclaimers VOIP operators have when you sign up. Even if you did this the laywers would say...well you have the number "9" "1" "1" on the dial program you have...so we are going to blame you!
Sue Sue Sue!!
they should counter sue this woman into the ground as an example for the financial harm she caused the company. Sue the laywer as well for defimation. sure she went through hell and lost her kid...but this would cause people to stop and think before they act.
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www.stopfcc.comI do not think the government needs to restrict free speech especially on a device that has an off knob. | |
| | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Re: The solution is simple... I don't know the facts but if, as it sounds, Vonage proved the call went through (twice), sue the lawyer. Leave the woman alone. The lawyer is the enabler. | |
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LinuxJunkie
join:2005-01-19
Cyberspace
| Actually, that's wrong. An attorney is supposed to do whatever the will of their client(s) is/are -- not what they personally believe. The only truth is the fact that he could have refused to represent her -- but then again, how many attorneys do you know that are going to turn down money. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: The solution is simple... No, attorneys are required by ethical standards to refuse to pursue cases which totally lack merit.
Attorneys should perform a basic evaluation of the facts prior to filing suit. In situations where there isn't time prior to filing (e.g., the statute of limitations is about to run out) then they are under a duty to evaluate their case as soon as possible.
So, attorneys who don't turn down bad cases are risking ethics violations.
The real problem here is that America does not follow the rule on attorney's fees that the rest of the world does. Elsewhere, the LOSER PAYS both sides' reasonable attorneys' fees. That deters most worthless cases from being filed.
Here, the attorney cranks up the word processor, pays a negligible filing fee, demands millions, takes a third of whatever he gets, and has virtually no risk that he'll have to chip in to pay the defendant's costs if the case is worthless. THAT is the problem.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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Goober
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
 ·WOW Internet and C..
·Comcast
| Re: The solution is simple... said by calvoiper :Here, the attorney cranks up the word processor, pays a negligible filing fee, demands millions, takes a third of whatever he gets, and has virtually no risk that he'll have to chip in to pay the defendant's costs if the case is worthless. THAT is the problem. calvoiper It's not quite that simple. But hey, I'd hate to rain on everybody's attorney bashing parade. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: The solution is simple... If you're saying the attorney does a little bit more, I did forget to add the phrase "hires a whore of an 'expert' who renders an opinion totally divorced from scientific fact" from the list of attorney activities.
If you're saying that American rule on attorney's fees isn't the problem, I'd like to hear more.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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Goober
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | Re: The solution is simple... No matter what I say, it really wouldn't matter to people like you. | |
| | | | mjcrocket
Mjc
join:2000-12-02
Abingdon, MD
| said by rradina :I don't know the facts but if, as it sounds, Vonage proved the call went through (twice), sue the lawyer. Leave the woman alone. The lawyer is the enabler. Vonage sent the call to an unattended answering machine in the building where the 911 center happened to be located. The office where the answering machine was located had nothing to do with the operation of the 911 center! Translation; the lady did register or set up the Vonage 911 service. Vonage sent the call to the wrong number. | |
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Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting | Re: The solution is simple... Funny, but that's about the size of it.  | |
| | | KIST
join:2002-02-27
Gaithersburg, MD
| said by cbrain :So in their effort to protect me from my own failing, big brother will completely disconnect me and keep me from direct dialing help to keep me from perhaps dialing 911 and not getting what I’ve been warned I wouldn’t get. Their warning is sent in writing to inform the people that failed to read the original warning when they signed up. And my taxes just went up. Isn’t it great that the Bush administration treats us like children unable to make our own decisions. Is this about technology or powerful ILECs able to make generous contributions? Is Bush a Republican or Fascist? | |
| | | | dartarian
join:2004-12-04
Columbus, GA | Re: The solution is simple... What does Bush or republicans have anything to do with it? | |
| | | | | Zyrxil
join:2002-07-22
Rego Park, NY | Re: The solution is simple... It's Bush's/the Republican's FCC. They call themselves conservatives, but they act like Fascists. That was the point made. | |
| | doofus_king
join:2004-09-15
Madison, WI | typicall fcc. force my voip provider to turn off my phone so i can't call anyone when my house is burning down.
does the cell phone industry have the same rule?
WTF? (or WTF should i expect from the fcc?!!! grrr!) | |
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KNO
@rr.com | I have Oceanic Time Warner and I never got an email, what the hell is Time Warner thinking? | |
| | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH | Re: The solution is simple... TWC has 911 service on their phones. they're a CLEC. | |
| jhh
join:2005-05-25
Fargo, ND
| Irresponsible parents Well if a parent is responsible right before their kid was born. They would have taken several first aid and cpr classes, have a list of the direct emergency numbers in their area stuck to their phone. So if such an event occurs and they are unable to reach an emergency number, they can handle the problem themselves, instead of wasting a riduculous amount of time for a paramedic to save a choking kid or treat a severe injury. An ambulance cannot get your kid to a hospital any faster than you can get there yourself, especially if you live in an area with a volunteer service. | |
| | hescominsoon
join:2003-02-18
Brunswick, MD
·Comcast
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Irresponsible parents said by jhh :Well if a parent is responsible right before their kid was born. They would have taken several first aid and cpr classes, have a list of the direct emergency numbers in their area stuck to their phone. So if such an event occurs and they are unable to reach an emergency number, they can handle the problem themselves, instead of wasting a riduculous amount of time for a paramedic to save a choking kid or treat a severe injury. An ambulance cannot get your kid to a hospital any faster than you can get there yourself, especially if you live in an area with a volunteer service. Wrong on the volunteer ambulance service. In my town the ambulance response is under 3 minutes on average. The hospital is almost 20 miles away. The ambulance can get anyone there much faster than a fellow citizen can plus they can render paramedic care on the scene and in transit..something a fellow citizen cannot do in transporting themselves. Just because it is a volunteer service does not mean quality goes down.
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God Blesshttp://www.emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com-- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape" | |
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needforspeed59
Cruise Ship Just Passing Through
join:2001-05-02
Glendale, AZ | Copy of the letter Does anyone have a copy of the letter Vonage sent out warning customers they will be disconnected? I didn't see it in the links above.
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Of all the people I know... you're one of them. | |
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Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting
| Re: Copy of the letter The Vonage letter:
Dear Valued Vonage Customer,
We have sent numerous notifications requiring that you view a notice on our 911 Dialing. Pursuant to an Order from the Federal Communications Commission, if you do not acknowledge this notice, we will be required to restrict your outbound calling for your Vonage service. To view and acknowledge our 911 Dialing notice, please click here.
Even if you have already activated 911, due to a recently announced FCC 911 ruling we are required to ensure that you acknowledge your understanding of these differences. It is mandatory that you act now so that we may continue to provide you with Vonage service.
Please note, if you have multiple Vonage accounts you must acknowledge that you have read and understand the 911 Dialing notice for each account separately.
To determine which account this is in reference to we have included your account information below: | |
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UglyDork
Premium
join:2002-01-09
Buffalo, NY
 ·Vonage
| Re: Copy of the letter But how do you acknowledge? I've never received an email, and I've even logged onto my Dashboard but I do not see anything there relating to this.
The only think I received was a letter in the mail stating that you can dial 933 to verify if you have e911 in your area yet.
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| | | | | | | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
| Re: Copy of the letter "Question: Doesnt the Fcc say that every POTS phone active or not has to have access to 911? I cant find it why am asking."
Nothing about landlines from what I've seen. VZ in Marion, OH has 911 service on all their lines active or not.
SBC doesn't. But they're required to have active 911 service for 14 days after they shut your phone off for what ever reason---requested or non-payment. After the 14days Ohio doesn't care. | |
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Toadman
How do you like these Apples
join:2001-11-28
Medina, OH
| Still Waiting for my Sticker Voicepulse send out the same letter, and then about a week later stated that they will be sending out phone stickers, like the 10-10-*** cheep looking stickers that say that this phone cannot dial 911, dial this number instead.
I still have not seen the sticker yet,
BTW, I plan on writing in 912 since I am a member of the Springfield Stonecutters! | |
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wildcards2000
| POTS This is too funny  Same people here crying about 911 not working on VOIP are the same ones saying people are dumb for having POTS in the DSL forum. Look before you leap.;) | |
| | radarman
join:2005-06-01
Odenton, MD
| Re: POTS VoIP is not an all or nothing type of deal. I save so much money a month on long distance that I can easily afford a metered-rate POTS line for emergencies. My total bill, after taxes, is about $42/mo - even though we probably use several HOURS of long distance a day. | |
| aaron12345
join:2002-12-17
Falls Church, VA | a simple solution Everytime someone dials an outside call, have a message saying "You must log into your dashboard and acknowledge our 911 disclaimer" before they connect their call. That would get nice and annoying fast and seems like it would get the job done. | |
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AtomicZero
join:2004-11-24
West Palm Beach, FL
·Comcast
| I See DUMB people I see dumb people and they like to sue others for their misfortune.
I see dumb people and they create havoc and mayhem because they have small brains that don't understand what a disclaimer is.
I see dumb people who think justice can be found on the dollar bill and that's enough to ease their pain
And it's Ok to point fingers and say "your fault, your fault"
Eventho the calls DID go through
Eventho it would have made sense to have a back-up phone, Eventho a cheap pay-as-you-go cell phone with no minutes will still call 911
Viable options for you, for your peace of mind, for your baby were never taken.
So sure it's still Ok to point fingers and say "your fault, your fault" | |
| | averagedude
join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ | Re: I See DUMB people Too true. | |
| | Devistater
join:2004-02-13
Clovis, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Good point. And heck a couple weeks ago compusa was PAYING YOU $10 to take a prepaid cell phone off thier hands ($40 phone with $50 rebates). So thats an even better deal than "cheap" heheheeheh. Man I love getting paid money to take merchandise off store's hands. | |
| JamesHutto
join:2004-05-09
Olar, SC
| correct me if i'm wrong Someone correct me if I am wrong, cause its this way where I live. I live in a rural area w/o broadband so this isnt an issue with me, but here's my take.
If my phone line(POTS) is disconnected for whatever reason, I can still dial 911 and get through w/o any problems. I assume most people that have VoIP service had a POTS line at one time, and can just hook up a handset to use for 911 services. | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
inzomniaq
join:2003-01-12
Houston, TX
| What happens when you dial "0" using VOIP service? Once upon a time, when 911 was not available to every city in the U.S., even through POTS, we were told to have a list of emergency numbers handy near the phone.
I remember the local sheriff's deputies coming in to our elementary school and handing out bright fluorescent stickers with telephone numbers to the local fire, police, emergency medical services, poison control, etc., that we could stick to our phones (rotary, back in the old days, touch tone was way too new fangled and expensive for us common folk).
We were also told that, if we remember nothing else, or were just too damn (of course they would never use such language in elementary school, I'm just speaking in hyperbole to make a point) lazy to create/obatin a list of emergency numbers, to dial 0 to get the operator, who could then patch a caller through to an emergency service.
What happens when you dial 0 using a VOIP service? Do you get an operator that can patch you though to an emergency service?
I'm using a metered POTS line (DSL, emergencies only) and also have a cell phone, so I haven't been in a rush to go the VOIP route as my cell plan, like y'alls, includes long distance.
In fact, I remember all kinds of emergency procedures being taught in elementary school. Is this no longer part of the school curiculum anymore? Don't mean to digress too much. Maybe that question is better posed in another Topic/Thread. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: What happens when you dial "0" using VOIP service? Dialing "0" worked pretty well when each town had its own operators. Now even the Baby Bells consolidate operator centers over large regions, and other providers may consolidate their operator service nationwide.
None of these consolidated operators has nearly the local knowledge necessary to "patch" callers through to the local ambulance, police, or fire--or even to know which 9-1-1 PSAP should get the call. Imagine some operator in Tulsa, Oklahoma trying to guess which ambulance company serves rural Nehi county in some state on the eastern seaboard.
(And yes, a computerized database could make this much easier--but the authorities are correct in saying the computerized database should focus on routing emergency calls AUTOMATICALLY through 9-1-1, rather than injecting yet one more unknowledgable person into the mix.)
In essence, dialing "0" isn't a good idea anymore--the industry has grown beyond that, just like many other industries have changed in a developing world.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
| | | inzomniaq
join:2003-01-12
Houston, TX
| Re: What happens when you dial "0" using VOIP serv Sure, an automatically routed call from a number everyone could remember would certainly be ideal. I agree this is preferrable to dialing an operator or some additional, potentially unknowledgeable, person for assistance. I was just wondering if dialing 0 would still be viable in the event of 911 not being available or down due to a glitch.
OK, so scratch dialing 0 as a quick backup plan.
Still, there are 7 (or 10) digit emergency numbers to each of the various local emergency services. Would it also not be possible to use directory services to look such numbers up if not able to patch one through?
Sure, I realize this isn't as good as an automatically routed 911 call, certainly not as fast, and that when people are under pressure, viable options don't always present themselves at the moment you need them.
But I'm just thinking 'what if...?' here. | |
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u fucking liar too
@216.64.x.x | Re: What happens when you dial "0" using VOIP service? WRONG operators can patch you through... based on the number you call from Ma Bell patches you right into the 911 circuits!!! or local whatever you need... | |
| | | | inzomniaq
join:2003-01-12
Houston, TX
| Re: What happens when you dial "0" using VOIP serv Sounds like I'll need to do a little more digging...
I guessing, though, that when you dial operator on a VOIP service that 'competes' with Ma Bell, you don't get Ma Bell.
Can/will the VOIP service providers' operators do the same as Ma Bell operators in terms of patching one through to the local 911 service based on the number one is calling from, even if one doesn't have an enhanced 911 service?
Guess it makes sense to either have alternate numbers handy or even programmed into speed dial, if one doesn't have an alternate phone service. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: What happens when you dial "0" using VOIP service? said by u fucking liar too :
WRONG operators can patch you through... based on the number you call from Ma Bell patches you right into the 911 circuits!!! or local whatever you need...
Typical trolling post from an unregistered user....
Ma Bell can "patch you through" because the Bell company has your service address AND has already cross referenced it for 9-1-1 purposes--which is EXACTLY what the FCC is now trying to force VOIP providers to do. Your VOIP provider may well not know where you are calling from, and even if you can give an accurate address, may not have the facilities to get the necessary numbers in real time.
I repeat my earlier point--if you're going to create the database necessary for operators to do this, you're much better off making it work for 9-1-1 FIRST, and then bringing operator services on line with it later.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
| 
fartness
Computersoc Dot Com
Premium
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside
clubs: | How do I test it? How do I test if 911 works without the police showing up at my house? | |
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verolom
join:2002-03-23
Eatontown, NJ | Re: How do I test it? You tell the operator that this call is only a test and you ask them to confirm that they have your address. Don't forget to thank them for their help | |
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rec9140
Provoice just DO it
join:2003-07-29
Mulberry, FL
·RoadRunner Cable
| RULE #1, LOCATE the NON EMERGENCY NUMBER for your area, be it the PD, FD, EMS or who ever answers and dispatches your emergency services.
CONTACT THE NON EMERGENCY NUMBER FIRST!
Arrange for a Test 911 call in accordance with that agencies protocol. They will setup the needed steps and arrange for this during a non peak time frame.
DO NOT JUST PICK UP THE PHONE AND DIAL 911!
Be able to have the admin on a cell phone or secondary line and the line under test dialing so that should an error misrouting, no answer or what ever this can be traced. There are steps to be taken to verify where your 911 call may come in. If you VOIP is providing real 911, unlikely, it will come in via the 911 lines and provide ANI, ALI and this needs be verified against where you are and what the VOIP carrier provided to the telco database. If your sent to a 7/10 digit line it needs to be verified that its the right one. Not the 9-3 non emergency admin line.
911 should ONLY be DIALED DURING AN ACTUAL EMERGENCY or UNDER SPECIFIC DIRETION OF THE 911 ANSWERING POINT FOR TESTING UNDER THEIR DIRECT AUTHORIZATION.
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| | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
| Re: How do I test it? I have TWC Digital Phone and All i did was call the sheriff department who answers the 911 calls and ask them to check to see if my information was in the system. and it was. Correct phone number, address, who the services we're provided from if i was in the city or not, and who the account holder's name is. | |
| Devistater
join:2004-02-13
Clovis, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| What I like about real 911 What I thought was funny about real 911 was when I was in LA, california. I called twice in a couple days when I was visiting there, once to report some moron who blew a tire and stopped in middle lane. Second to report a brush fire next to highway that had no firetrucks there yet.
BOTH FRIGGING TIMES that I called I was on hold for 15 mins. Differant days, differant times. I had to sit and listen through messages about not calling 911 to get driving directions etc, and that someone would be with me soon. FIFTEEN FREAKING MINUTES!
Stop calling 911 for fricken directions. | |
| fitzov
join:2005-01-13
Mansfield Center, CT
·Charter Pipeline
edit:
August 26th, @11:15AM
| monopoly-effect The only reason why were seeing pressure put on VOIP providers is that phone companies like SBC have realized that they are losing money and will lose alot more when cell phones make the VOIP connection. (Hint: the big phone companies have lobbyists and pay large campaign contributions.) | |
| 
Drunkula
Premium
join:2000-06-12
Denton, TX
 ·Verizon FIOS
| What a pain in the ass... I've had Vonage for over a year now. The service itself has worked quite well. The one thorn in my side is I keep getting reminders via email and snail-mail about once a month regarding 911. I setup my 911 profile the day I got my service. I even verified it at least twice since then yet I keep getting the damned reminders.
I may just drop the service entirely. I rarely use that phone anyhow as I do most of my talking via my mobile phone!
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We have enough youth. How about a Fountain of Smart? | |
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