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'Unlimited' is a Dirty Word
Marketing departments wise up
Whirlpool notes that broadband providers in Australia are veering away from the word "unlimited", now that customers have complained that capped services are anything but. North American cable marketing departments have stopped using the word as well, in response to complaints about unspecified caps. Many providers have replaced caps with traffic shaping technology that throttles app specific bandwidth, limitations most regular users aren't aware of - therefore don't complain about.
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium Member
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA

oliphant

Premium Member

It's all a scam...

Cable operators are out there screaming they're oh so much faster than DSL, meanwhile they have the monthly caps and extensive TS. They tout their services are great for music and streaming video then turn right around and throttle that type of traffic. At least providers like Cox lay out their limitations in writing up front for all to see. To bad operators like Comcrap don't follow suit and simply state what the restrictions are rather than the vague TOS/AUP buried in the service agreement.

AtomicZero
join:2004-11-24
West Palm Beach, FL

AtomicZero

Member

Re: It's all a scam...

I have Adelphia right now.. I don't feel capped. I Dl Animes and watch shows all the time Is there a company in particular you had this experience with...and please don't say comcast... cuz I'm getting them by the end of the year i think.

oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium Member
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA

2 edits

oliphant

Premium Member

Re: It's all a scam...


So much for 'unlimited'
I had gotten a 'nasty gram' from Comcrap last year but it doesn't seem they're sending them out any more. That in itself wasn't that big a deal but this just a few months after they stopped advertising their service as "unlimited". Not just 'always on' or some other BS marketing term but they actually used the term unlimited. I called to find out what the cap was and they wouldn't tell me what the cap was when I called but to just 'cut my usage by half'. It's like American Express...no spending limits yet they will decline purchases. The cap is there somewhere since at some point a nasty gram got triggered.

I wouldn't have such a problem with caps or throttling if they would just say what the restrictions are like Cox and even DirecPC does. Then people can make a fair assessment as to whether or not they think the price is a good deal or not.

KAD Imaging
Just Shoot It
Premium Member
join:2002-09-21
Hialeah, FL

KAD Imaging to oliphant

Premium Member

to oliphant
said by oliphant:

Cable operators are out there screaming they're oh so much faster than DSL, meanwhile they have the monthly caps and extensive TS. They tout their services are great for music and streaming video then turn right around and throttle that type of traffic. At least providers like Cox lay out their limitations in writing up front for all to see. To bad operators like Comcrap don't follow suit and simply state what the restrictions are rather than the vague TOS/AUP buried in the service agreement.
See my comments here: »Cable Providers & Throttling Application Bandwidth


JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium Member
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD

JTRockville

Premium Member

"Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

Unfortunately, most services have limits. So why not just specify what the limits are? What's the big deal?
tpeng
join:2003-01-30
Forest Hills, NY

2 recommendations

tpeng

Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

...Because forthright honesty is the greatest enemy of marketing

AtomicZero
join:2004-11-24
West Palm Beach, FL

1 recommendation

AtomicZero

Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

Honesty is actually best marketing tactic.People LOVE knowing what they are getting into, and appreciate the fact that you told them. It's only the enemy to the small minds of corrupt Marketing reps who can't wrap their heads around this concept.

1 recommendation

Industry_Pro

Anon

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

Well, I don't know. My company hasn't used the word "unlimited" since, I think it was about 1997 or so. In the dialup business, we used to advertise "unlimited active use" meaning, you had to be sitting there. We had restrictions against using any software that acted as a keep alive to get around the 10 minute idle timeout. The timeout had to be 10 minutes becuase some email programs default to a 10 minute time between checking mail. So if your timeout is 15, some customers, even thought they did nothing to cause it, will never idle out.
At any rate, people only heard the word "unlimited" and forgot the "active use" part of it. There were often claims that they had nothing on their computer that was causing it to stay online. They would also say that "unlimited" meant you could stay on 24/7.
So we just dropped the word and have never used it again and I have to say, before you sit in judgement of the "evil" marketing types, try working the sales desk when caller after caller after caller would ask if the service was "unlimited" and we would say "No, it's 300 hours." You would just hear a kind of sigh or a silence, and they would say in a disappointed voice, "Oh - I thought it was unlimited. OK thank you!" and hang up. Which actually was OK with us, in our case - we pretty much had as many modems as we were ever going to buy and were out of growth mode pretty early on.
If you wanted to get out there and compete for customers, it would be wise to find a way to use the word "unlimited" - certainly you cannot be the only honest guy and have all your competitors laugh at you because you are telling the truth - and no one with sign up with you as a result.
In the DSL/Broadband/high speed access business I really kind of agree with the user who said, "It's all a scam." Because in a big, huge way, it is indeed all a scam. Huge numbers are mentioned for dowload speed. Yet, the slow upload is ignored in advertising and marketing. The speed is "70 faster than a modem" (roadrunner) only when you are downloading. They advertise, let's say 1.5 megabits for ADSL but in fact, that is not a guaranteed bit rate and all traffic is at most, "best effort". They fail to mention the level to which you are *sharing* that 1.5 megs or 5 megs or what have you. It's not like everyone has a personal fractional T3 from their house to the backbones and router meeting rooms. But you would never know that looking at the advertising that is being put out there. People are shown in the advertising doing all kinds of simultaneous high bandwidth things, when in fact if a high percentage of customers actually did all that, the network would just start to melt down and crawl. They don't mention that part of it.
There is a great deal of confusion in the marketplace as a result. Services with guaranted bit rates and SLA's are not valued in great volume by the market. They just aren't. Most people and even companies want a cheap "best effort" type service, then it's OK most of the time and they get to gripe about something the other percentage when it sucks.
So, in large part I blame the human nature of retail customers for the use of the word "unlimited" - they demand it against all rationality. It's not a rational or reasonable word as they've pointed out many times on BBR. And, I do think it's basically all a scam, but I also think a scam is what people want to hear. I truly think that most customers would rather gripe about their account not being truly "unlimited" than buy an account that advertises that it is not "unlimited." Also it should be pointed out, as the consumers and the FCC and all are apparently giving total encouragement to the market going to ONLY the cable company or ONLY the local Bell - well you can just expect the scams to continue unabated. These people know how to do it, and how to stay just on the edge of illegality. At a minimum they know how to judge risk where they can just pay off any fine that results as a cost of business. And since you will have no choice between ISP's - other than the cable companies and the Bells, there is no hope of anyone opening the marketplace to honest talk about how things really are.
I might add, I believe that the "broadband bill of rights" stuff where they government takes over ISP's and tells them how to run their business - I believe that is going to damage any chance of having any independent ISP's left in a few years. Other than backbone guys, and VPN guys, I mean. No last mile consumer type independents. The people behind this want to force the Bells and Cablecos to carry their VoIP traffic without toll, basically giving them a free ride on the network. But what the idea does is make all ISP's identical - every ISP carries the same exact traffic as every other ISP.
THAT will be the true death-knell for the independents. There will be no way to differentiate yourself from Bell except through pricing. If Bell and the MSO's would start jacking with their networks and making all kinds of channelized, filtered psuedo-'internet' access and disallow competitive VoIP and what have you, (assuming for argument that's even possible) then the independents would have a real selling point for their services. But if every ISP is just like every other ISP, well, it's a race to the basement.

seen it
@sonnet.com

seen it

Anon

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

Industry_pro is on the money. People buy the lie. They want the lie. If you won't lie, they will buy from someone who will. It's the irrational side of human behavior. Eventually the marketplace will lose interest and the lie can be quietly withdrawn. That is what is happening in this case.

"Yes Mrs. Sablowsky, this makeup makes you look 20 years younger!"

AtomicZero
join:2004-11-24
West Palm Beach, FL

AtomicZero

Member

dude you did nothing to defend your point and I'm not going to belabour this.... since you think/admit "it's a scam, but it's not our fault... cuz it's human nature and cuz it's what people/customers want to hear.." whatever sure...;);) whatever you say;);)

Industry_Pro

Anon

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

Hi AtomicZero,

Not trying to defend a point. Just stating the facts as I see them, and trying to give readers the benefit of almost 11 years of ISP ownership.

I, as well as most independents, are being edged out of the game with every passing day. So I feel comfortable critizing the majors. But I also think some of the readers of this board could better speak to some of the issues if they had some first hand experience at, ISP marketing or network engineering or sales or ISP services and technology.

So yeah, you are correct - what you and I wish and what is are two different things that are inconsistent. I guess that's marketing in a nutshell (thank you Oreilly).

Not really trying to make just one point, trying to help to the degree I can do so.

IP

rudnicke
Premium Member
join:2004-10-23
Rantoul, IL

rudnicke to tpeng

Premium Member

to tpeng
Actually, people today really have no concept that lying or not disclosing the truth is no big deal.

If you can lie and get more customers, then it's ok in their eyes.

KAD Imaging
Just Shoot It
Premium Member
join:2002-09-21
Hialeah, FL

KAD Imaging to tpeng

Premium Member

to tpeng
said by tpeng:

...Because forthright honesty is the greatest enemy of marketing
Bingo!

TRULY UNLIMITED DSL

Vs.

MOSTLY "Umm..limited" Cable

Which would you choose?

entropy1
Premium Member
join:2002-09-25

4 edits

entropy1

Premium Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

Cable...because I don't have a problem using all I want and I like cable better after having both.

I have WAY fewer problems with cable and faster speeds too!

As far as I know, Comcast doesn't send threat letters anymore. This is something dsl users seem to forget when they try to pull their "holier connection than thou" crap on here. Has anyone been capped by Comcast in the last year?
Edit: Typo

DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium Member
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA

DaDogs to KAD Imaging

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to KAD Imaging
said by KAD Imaging:
said by tpeng:

...Because forthright honesty is the greatest enemy of marketing
Bingo!

TRULY UNLIMITED DSL

Vs.

MOSTLY "Umm..limited" Cable

Which would you choose?
Now this is where I have to get off. Truly unlimited DSL that actually delivered promissed speeds is one thing and as a matter of fact, a rare thing.

BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium Member
join:2004-04-13
Canada

BonezX

Premium Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

said by DaDogs:

said by KAD Imaging:
said by tpeng:

...Because forthright honesty is the greatest enemy of marketing
Bingo!

TRULY UNLIMITED DSL

Vs.

MOSTLY "Umm..limited" Cable

Which would you choose?
Now this is where I have to get off. Truly unlimited DSL that actually delivered promissed speeds is one thing and as a matter of fact, a rare thing.
you also forget that you have to be within a certan distance to get DSL.

my cable is uncapped/unrestricted has higher speed and costs less then most of the stuff i see in the states, why ?, because the company has a huge advantage over AT&T, it's mostly rural where i am.

DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium Member
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA

DaDogs

Premium Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

said by BonezX:
said by DaDogs:
said by KAD Imaging:
said by tpeng:

...Because forthright honesty is the greatest enemy of marketing
Bingo!

TRULY UNLIMITED DSL

Vs.

MOSTLY "Umm..limited" Cable

Which would you choose?
Now this is where I have to get off. Truly unlimited DSL that actually delivered promissed speeds is one thing and as a matter of fact, a rare thing.
you also forget that you have to be within a certan distance to get DSL.

my cable is uncapped/unrestricted has higher speed and costs less then most of the stuff i see in the states, why ?, because the company has a huge advantage over AT&T, it's mostly rural where i am.
I didn't forget that DSL is distance sensitive. I am an ISP and have delivered both SDSL over bare copper and resold Verizon DSL.

Cable doesn't have the kind of distance limitation that DSL has but being rural isn't always helpful. The cable carrier in our area has more than 200 subs going thru a T-1 gateway. Clearly speed is relative

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

John Galt6

Premium Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

said by DaDogs:

Cable doesn't have the kind of distance limitation that DSL has but being rural isn't always helpful.
Just to clarify...cable has distance limitations also. It is related to the number of cascaded amplifiers in the chain.

There are technical means such as microwave to new headends to overcome this limitation, but the point is that it is not possible to have an "infinite" number of amps in a cascade.

Well, you can...it just won't work, that's all.


DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium Member
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA

DaDogs

Premium Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

said by John Galt6:

Well, you can...it just won't work, that's all.


Hey John;

What is the limitation on cascaded amplifiers in a cable chain? How far can one go on one amp (generally) and how many amps are allowed in a chain?

Thanks
-m-

jkreuzig
Whatever
join:2001-07-11
Yorba Linda, CA

jkreuzig to DaDogs

Member

to DaDogs
Now this is where I have to get off. Truly unlimited DSL that actually delivered promissed speeds is one thing and as a matter of fact, a rare thing.
Probably not as rare as you might think. As long as you are within distance, and chose the CORRECT provider, getting unlimited DSL at promised speeds is not a problem.

Remember, it's all about the details. Read up on the details of what sort of DSL you are getting and you can easily get what you are looking for.

DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium Member
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA

DaDogs

Premium Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

said by jkreuzig:
Now this is where I have to get off. Truly unlimited DSL that actually delivered promissed speeds is one thing and as a matter of fact, a rare thing.
Probably not as rare as you might think. As long as you are within distance, and chose the CORRECT provider, getting unlimited DSL at promised speeds is not a problem.
It is not difficult to get the link between you and the ILEC to run at advertized speeds. It is frequently a problem to get the thruput you are promissed thru the ILEC's gateways.
said by jkreuzig:

Remember, it's all about the details. Read up on the details of what sort of DSL you are getting and you can easily get what you are looking for.
Aye, understood. Good advice. Wireless is becoming a more viable option every day. My hope is to take down my DSL circuit and go to a wireless circuit to our tower.
ke4pym
Premium Member
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC

ke4pym to KAD Imaging

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to KAD Imaging
CABLE. I don't want to pay extra for the phone line tax for a line I don't want, need or will otherwise use.

Mactron
el Camino Real
Premium Member
join:2001-12-16
PRK

Mactron

Premium Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

said by ke4pym:

CABLE. I don't want to pay extra for the phone line tax for a line I don't want, need or will otherwise use.
DSL. I don't want to pay extra for a Cable subscription I don't want, need, or be punished an extra cost for not having.

ropeguru
Premium Member
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

ropeguru

Premium Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

said by Mactron:
said by ke4pym:

CABLE. I don't want to pay extra for the phone line tax for a line I don't want, need or will otherwise use.
DSL. I don't want to pay extra for a Cable subscription I don't want, need, or be punished an extra cost for not having.
No, you are just forced to pay for that POTS line from the xLEC that you do not want. If you are not lucky enough to have someone like Covad or Speakeasy and the like to provide you naked DSL.

entropy1
Premium Member
join:2002-09-25

entropy1

Premium Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

Then you pay out the ass anyway with those companies.

KAD Imaging
Just Shoot It
Premium Member
join:2002-09-21
Hialeah, FL

KAD Imaging to ropeguru

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to ropeguru
said by ropeguru:

No, you are just forced to pay for that POTS line from the xLEC that you do not want. If you are not lucky enough to have someone like Covad or Speakeasy and the like to provide you naked DSL.
No, you are just forced to purchase a cable product inferior to satellite in every way and twice as expensive for less digital content.

(sure, cable will give ya um...bundled hsi for $20 extra a month. Total cost: Crapcast 81ch basic package $48. Crapcast umbundled hsi +$20 = $68. Basic BS pots no add-ons $19. BSFA +$45 = $64 = DSL WIIIINS....PERFECT! lol )

(oh yeah, BSFA is UNlimited instead of Crapcasts UM...limited service including 2GB newgroup cap. I think my NB Pro has been downloading for 6 days including today straight and I could go to Europe til winter and not worry about a damn thing when I return!)

entropy1
Premium Member
join:2002-09-25

entropy1

Premium Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

Oh...you're one of those who chooses an isp based on what "extras" they offer, sort of like AOL style. I tend to go more for the connection. I just subscribe to my own choice of newsgroup access.

KAD Imaging
Just Shoot It
Premium Member
join:2002-09-21
Hialeah, FL

KAD Imaging

Premium Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

said by entropy1:

Oh...you're one of those who chooses an isp based on what "extras" they offer, sort of like AOL style. I tend to go more for the connection. I just subscribe to my own choice of newsgroup access.
Uh, no. Newsgroup access is part of the package. BS is fully unlimited whereas Crapcast limits you to 2GB and CAPS throughput to like 3KB or something ludicrously small.

Your welcome to pay all the extra money you want for newsgroup access.

entropy1
Premium Member
join:2002-09-25

entropy1

Premium Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

I've experienced no "capping" of throughput whatsoever. Also, I've found that the access I pay for is far superior to any free access I've gotten with any isp over the years...unlimited or not...be it dsl or cable.

itguy35
@static.stls.mo.chart

itguy35 to KAD Imaging

Anon

to KAD Imaging
$64 = DSL wins? for NO TV SERVICE? You can take that same $68 cable package and add voip for $25/month and have everything a home user needs. Your $64 DSL option doesn't include any tv content at all - that math is about as fuzzy as a TELCO's. And as far as cable being "inferior to satellite" here in MO, if a person were to so much as as sneeze on their dish or the sky gets cloudy, you might as well plan on having a fuzzy SATV picture. I have many friends with the "more cost effective" SATV and i will take my cable any day of the week. Especially since i have 5 meg Charter pipeline (consistent at 4.7mb) and 7 TVs in the house. Oh BTW, Charter's customer service runs circles around SBC in this area. I've used everything from Wireless, to DSL, and now cable and I'm staying with cable.

KAD Imaging
Just Shoot It
Premium Member
join:2002-09-21
Hialeah, FL

KAD Imaging

Premium Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

said by itguy35 :

$64 = DSL wins? for NO TV SERVICE? You can take that same $68 cable package and add voip for $25/month and have everything a home user needs. Your $64 DSL option doesn't include any tv content at all - that math is about as fuzzy as a TELCO's. And as far as cable being "inferior to satellite" here in MO, if a person were to so much as as sneeze on their dish or the sky gets cloudy, you might as well plan on having a fuzzy SATV picture. I have many friends with the "more cost effective" SATV and i will take my cable any day of the week. Especially since i have 5 meg Charter pipeline (consistent at 4.7mb) and 7 TVs in the house. Oh BTW, Charter's customer service runs circles around SBC in this area. I've used everything from Wireless, to DSL, and now cable and I'm staying with cable.
I'll just quote a previous post when I listed a my cable and dsl setups..
said by Me :
BS DSL Ultra (1.5)
Complete Choice = $30
Emergency LD Plan = $1.99
Extreme DSL = $35
TOTAL = $67 (+ taxes/fees = $75)

CRAPCAST Cable
Standard Package = $49 (81 ch Analog)
Digital Classic = $56 (127+ ch)
TOTAL = $49
(DVR = $10/mo)

$75 + $49 = $124

Current:

BS DSL Extreme (3.0)
Complete Choice = $30
Emergency LD Plan = $1.99
Extreme DSL = $45
TOTAL = $77 (+ taxes/fees = $85)

Direct TV
TOTAL Choice Plus (150+ ch Digital) = $45.99
BS Answers Disount = -$4.99
TOTAL = $41.99
(DVR = $4.99/mo)

$85 + $42 = $127

So for $3 more per month I doubled my DSL speed and am getting 30 more DIGITAL channels plus there's no rental fee for the a box. CRAPCAST sucks "a big fat donkey d***!!!"

printscreen
join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR

printscreen to ropeguru

Member

to ropeguru
said by ropeguru:

No, you are just forced to pay for that POTS line from the xLEC that you do not want. If you are not lucky enough to have someone like Covad or Speakeasy and the like to provide you naked DSL.
What if my POTS line has already been there for ages and I still want/need that line? I don't have a POTS line because I have DSL. I have DSL because I already have a POTS line. In my case, the cost of the phone service doesn't come into play for what I pay for DSL because I would have the line anyway without DSL.

It's amazing how many people assume that everybody with DSL is forced to pay for a POTS line. Some are, many aren't.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102 to JTRockville

Member

to JTRockville
Yeah,

That's one of the reasons I'm currently with DSL Extreme. I don't have Commiecast caps (I use my connection for constant VPN to work), and I'm not (or at least don't appear to be) throttled, and its relatively inexpensive.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

ptrowski

Premium Member

Re: "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word

Ignorance is bliss

iam x
Sungazer
Premium Member
join:2005-02-23

1 edit

iam x to JTRockville

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to JTRockville
because when we see how limited these self-decided limits are, we will suddenly realise that they are trying to rip us off, thats why. they already know it, but we dont, and they dont want us to know either.
ignorance is bliss for a reason.

George_W_Bush
@dsl.ipltin.ameritech

George_W_Bush

Anon

The Market will show

The Market will show what people/drones think about caps.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

1 recommendation

rradina

Member

Unlimited? What's Reasonable?

It sounds like some operators actually state the limits. Can someone provide context for these limits? It seems meaningless to discuss unlimited limits without some perspective of what they actually mean to the average user.

Where am I going? I want to know how many customers will actually hit these limits before I decide whether or not this warrants serious attention.

We live in a world where 2% scream, piss, moan and complain about the smallest things. Is this another case where 98% of customers are completely satisfied, unaware, fat and happy with with these unlimited, limits?

It brings to mind the saccharin medical scare ~30 years ago. After analyzing the data, it was realized that the poor mice who got cancer received an equivalent amount of saccharin that an adult would receive if they drank 800 cans of diet soda per day.

Context is EVERYTHING.

•••

DrewCapu
Giant Diehard
join:2001-12-19
California

1 recommendation

DrewCapu

Member

They heard wrong...

It's really "Um...limited"

iam x
Sungazer
Premium Member
join:2005-02-23

iam x

Premium Member

Re: They heard wrong...

said by DrewCapu:

It's really "Um...limited"
yeah.
rhexis
join:2002-05-18
Gilbertsville, PA

rhexis

Member

whine all you want...

but these drakonian caps you all cry about affect maybe 0.2% of cable internet customers. maybe instead of crying about not being able to download your 400 gigs of warez and pr0n every month you could do something useful like seek employment, or at the very least, leave your parents basement and take a walk outside.
jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS

jsouth

Member

Re: whine all you want...

Try only 30 gigs a month and the normal traffic that hits your modem every minute of every day counts against that quota.
homers0
join:2002-02-05
Santa Clarita, CA

homers0

Member

Vonage unlimited???

from www.vonage.com

Vonage's Premium Unlimited Plan offers the following for the low price of $24.99 a month:

* Unlimited calls anywhere in the US (including Puerto Rico) & Canada

Unlimited??? What about the documented cases when a home user has 2500 minutes a month and is told they must switch to a business plan????

gonefrommarketing
@ny325.fios.verizon.n

gonefrommarketing

Anon

The Good Old Days

The days of stating "unlimited" have been gone from cable advertising for YEARS... the NEW emphasis is on triple play... selling MORE services to the customer.
Throttling, poor customer service.. "Bitch Dog" bills, etc.. the cable industry needs to clean up its act, BIGTIME!

LoveDishNetwork
@ny325.fios.verizon.n

LoveDishNetwork

Anon

Gotta get the DISH

I love the TV commercial that shows a tv that sucks everything towards it.. and the people saying their TV sucks (suggesting cable-tv providers "SUCK") I think they're on to something here!

fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Gotta get the DISH

said by LoveDishNetwork :

I love the TV commercial that shows a tv that sucks everything towards it.. and the people saying their TV sucks (suggesting cable-tv providers "SUCK") I think they're on to something here!

Yea, I think they ARE on to something here too.. It's called dual-standards. On one hand, they are a company that commits to providing family quality television packages, while on the other, they produce and air edgy and borderline foul comercials like the "My TV sucks!" campaign that air at all hours of the day on channels that children watch. BRAVO! Dish!
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned)

Member

Trafic shaping is fine if its complex enough

What i mean is this from messing with it on my own lan i found not only does it not hurt your surfing but can dramiticaly improve it. Example a flash or java heavy site require more than a pure html one. So if you limit the potential bandwidth for html to say a mear 15KB and give flash heavy etc sites 60KB (based on a 15KB html site vs a 60KB flash site) they will both load in one secound +overhead of reading the file type. Not much of a effect unless you have 3 or 4 people on the lan browseing. If the file in question is say somefile.somevideoextension then it should get a higher max speed than a measly 15KB web page. ISPs tend to go with the simplest way of doing things like trafic shaping or will do it backwards out right harming your experiance.

Fact is if isps limite web page download speeds so that it took exactly 1 secound to download a page fro a server where such a thing was possible they would lower their costs to a much greater extent.

WillPay4moreupload

Anon

Timewarner

Thankfully Timewarner has never been capped. But if it does I will be sure to hop on the dsl bandwagon. The upload on Timewarner basic Tier is atrocious for the price tag. Especially disturbing is that they compete in areas with the likes of RCN and Verizon. Verizon has smaller download but RCN's basic Tier beats Timewarner's premium tier easy. Then again Timewarner has other problems like news server retention.
RobFL2
join:2005-08-11
Mary Esther, FL

RobFL2

Member

Humm are you all waking up?

What part of "unlimited" does these cable company operators understand? Unlimited means you can stay on 24/7/365..with the exception of outages either from FCC testing (which is manidatory) and other conflicts. This is a scam to get us to "upgrade" (in mose cases really to downgrade) to business class which does NOT have caps but the speeds are slower.

Here is a quote from my cable companies' TOS aggrement:

"I thought you offered “unlimited access”?

Cox’s "unlimited access" messaging was meant to convey that customers' Cox High Speed Internet connection is "always on", so customers do not have to dial-in to access the Internet, that the Cox HSI service is not subject to hourly usage limits, that Cox HSI customers can access any content or websites they choose over the Internet and that the service does not tie up a user's phone line.

Does unlimited now mean "always on"? Jesus Tapdancing Christ!

Rob

JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium Member
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL

JoeOnSunset

Premium Member

Re: Humm are you all waking up?

said by RobFL2:

Cox’s "unlimited access" messaging was meant to convey that customers' Cox High Speed Internet connection is "always on", so customers do not have to dial-in to access the Internet, that the Cox HSI service is not subject to hourly usage limits, that Cox HSI customers can access any content or websites they choose over the Internet and that the service does not tie up a user's phone line.
It seems like the FTC should've done something about those advertisements a long time ago. It's amazing to me that a company can actually plainly admit to advertising something they don't provide (as they do above) and see no consequences.

From our friends at Merriam Webster:
un·limited
Function: adjective

1 : lacking any controls : UNRESTRICTED, UNCONFINED
2 : having no bounds : wanting limits : BOUNDLESS, INFINITE
3 : not bounded by exceptions : UNDEFINED

KAD Imaging
Just Shoot It
Premium Member
join:2002-09-21
Hialeah, FL

1 recommendation

KAD Imaging to RobFL2

Premium Member

to RobFL2
said by RobFL2:

Here is a quote from my cable companies' TOS aggrement:

"I thought you offered “unlimited access”?

Cox’s "unlimited access" messaging was meant to convey that customers' Cox High Speed Internet connection is "always on", so customers do not have to dial-in to access the Internet, that the Cox HSI service is not subject to hourly usage limits, that Cox HSI customers can access any content or websites they choose over the Internet and that the service does not tie up a user's phone line.

Does unlimited now mean "always on"? Jesus Tapdancing Christ!

Rob
Well since Corporations rule the world and laws were meant to be paid for, yes. It would take a massive class action to make them take any notice and even then the cost would be negligible for them. NOTE to Cable Co's.

By UNLIMITED you mean INSTANTANEOUS. Hire some educated personnel for a change.
Krellan
join:2001-06-06
Castro Valley, CA

Krellan

Member

Unmetered

Several years ago, back in the dark days of analog dialup modems and AOL's charge by the hour, many young ISP's made the mistake of using the word "unlimited" in their advertising. Since analog phone lines are a significant resource to keep in use, especially with business lines, this was not a good business decision!

The ISP I used at the time, Netgate, had a clever word they used in their service description.

Unmetered

They had wording something like "Unmetered does not mean unlimited. We expect you to hang up your modem when you are finished, and not hog our service by staying on 24/7."

Seemed fair to me.

»netgate.net/

»web.archive.org/web/1999 ··· ic.shtml

Maybe it's the time to bring back this word?